Indonesia executes drug convicts, defying global anger

[LuckyLew]

About time they took out these people

Drug dealers are scum who cater to people with addictions, they do not care about the harm they are inflicting on people and society. How many lives did they destroy / kill before being caught? Had they not been caught how many more would have suffered? After being shot I hope they went south and not north.

[chooka]

State murder of drug dealers

Barbaric and an unnecessary state murder...

Bali Bombers murdered 202 - 3 executed - Bashir was found guilty of conspiracy over the 2002 Bali bombings - two and half years jail - four serving life sentences ..and a few others got away !

Drugs are evil but some balance in punishments must be applied.

Indonesia is a sovereign state but is third world, poorly educated and where life has a low value ...how long will it take for them to exit the dark ages !!

I just hope that Australians think carefully before visiting Indonesia and consider a boycott of the country - corruption is rife and no way is justice guaranteed. Maybe past PM Paul Keating should restate his remark and apply it to the current President who in this case would not listen to world opinion and behaves like a 'Truculent schoolboy' !!

It was a totally lawful act so it definately can't be murder.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[Wat dee]

Australia has withdrawn thier ambassador and suspended political ties with indonesia.

These people knew the laws and consequences, they didn't give a single thought about the lives of others they were destroying. They broke the law and paid for it. The execution of drug dealers is no loss to society, the trash has been taken out.

The best retaliatory action the Australians could do would be to issue the most stern 'do not travel' warning to Indonesia - the one that voids all travel insurance policies and implement economic sanctions.

All but one of those executed were foreigners and probably not of the same religion which suggests some politician sabre rattling to gain a few votes.

This country needs to be punished for its barbaric and medieval ways.

"do not travel" also for USA and China?

[Beetlejuice]

Those of you who are joyous over the death of the drug smugglers are basically saying that there's never a possibility of a person being reformed?

clearly this is a wrong view.

Millions of people have made mistakes and learned the error of their ways and have gone on to become useful members of society.

I watched a program about the two from Australia including in depth interviews with them.

If I am any judge of human nature and can read a person, then I would have to say they had learned that what they did was very wrong and were remorseful.

They also wanted to help young people by talking to them about the dangers of drugs, and who better than a reformed drug seller?

How many of you have never made a mistake?

It doesn't just have to be about drug smuggling, we all make mistakes and it's lucky that most of the time we get away with, especially when we are young and foolhardy.

We eventually grow up and realise that we were lucky to not to have been caught and never do it again.

These guys were caught and given 10 years in a Bali jail to think about their crime, be rehabilitated then be put to death.

You need to be educated in the facts that these are hardened drug dealers, not petty criminals such as being held for shop lifting or unpaid parking fines. These people were members of organised drug dealing and trafficking gangs, who would not hesitate to kill anyone that they considered were a threat to them.

People who make comments like yourself are usually hypocrites. For example do you have enough sympathy for these peddlers of poison and death that you would welcome them as neighbors if released from jail and went to Thailand? Or if you were rich, would you buy them out of trouble if that were possible? Somehow I doubt it. Easy to talk when none of your nearest and dearest has been affected by drugs and the problem is a thousand miles away from your doorstep.

[boomerangutang]

However, I have known a few people whose children's lives (and theirs) were destroyed by heroin (one died).

I too had a best friend die from an overdose of H. However, in the sentence above, try substituting the word 'alcohol' for 'heroin'. I don't think anyone can take issue with the fact that many more people have had their lives destroyed by alcohol than by heroin. Another difference: drunks are more likely to beat their wives, drive dangerously, and get in to fights (in bars and elsewhere) than H junkies.

One of the biggest problems with drug laws is: the people writing and enforcing them don't know much about the drugs they're legislating. I've done heroin and I've done alcohol. I know their effects, and they're quite different. Heroin is mellowing. The people writing the laws haven't done H so they're basing their decisions on what others say. Those 'others' (many of whom are beholden to the alcohol industry) will only paint worst-case-scenario about H and pot and other recreational drugs. Indeed, those 'other experts' probably got their data second hand. Would you want scuba diving regulations written by a group of old men who never went in the water and didn't know the equipment?

I'm not saying recreational drugs other than alcohol are fine, but am saying: penalties need to be commensurate with (and based on knowledge of) the crime. If someone went through a stop sign without stopping, would you scream that they should get the death penalty? You could say; "driving through stop signs can kill people!", and then show graphic photos of people killed by such action. That's the sort of mentality which drives the draconian 'War on Drugs.'

Indonesian action is far too harsh considering the crime. Incidentally, most non-alc rec. drug users just hang at their house/apartment, or maybe go to a movie or disco. Probably 99% do no harm to anyone. Can we say the same for drunks? Yet the public image of non-alc drug users is like that ridiculous movie from the 1950's (REEFER MADNESS) which showed pot smokers becoming sex-crazed and murderous. That's the image the establishment (including alcohol peddlers) want everyone to have for all non-alc rec. drugs. They're all bad, all the time, and create murderers in an instant. US's DEA has propagated that image ww, and it's been fantastically successful.

[Commander Tamson]

I find it just incredible the amount of numpties on here who claim to know that drugs are the ruin of thousands of lives. It is the illegality of drugs that is the ruin of hundreds of thousands of lives.

But in most of your opinions, it's perfectly okay for Indonesia to let convicted terrorists walk free, as long as they keep executing drug-mules. Why don't you all sit back and think about that for a while and maybe start to ask yourselves Why is that?

In most cases your self analysis will find that the lights are on but no one is in!

[White Christmas13]

At least they didn't Kill that Philipina, but could be temporary, Bloodthirsty Bastards...I'm sure we' ll have the usual Alcoholics, spouting off about drugs dealers and such, the Rush Limbaugh brigade, it's a Prescription Drug it's OK, cmon bring it on.

I think that the complete drug politics is wrong. But the laws in Indonesia are well known. Last time I was there, there was a big warning about death penalty for drugs and big box where you can drop any drugs before you enter the country. So everyone knows what he does.

Do they have a big box you can drop drugs when you leave Indo?

[BlackJack]

I cant believe the media exposure these people get

If you bother to check these guys ie the bali 9 had been using young people (mules) to carry the stuff into Australia for years, testing and watching the security measures of the Indo's.

Then they went for the big one.

Done it many times and got caught once.

Maybe this should be reported more and how brave they are less.

If Tony Abbott the Australian PM is going to risk relations, by defending these idiots, with 239 million Indonesians and billions in trade then he needs to return his University degree as he dont know nuttin about nuttin

[noosard]

I find it just incredible the amount of numpties on here who claim to know that drugs are the ruin of thousands of lives. It is the illegality of drugs that is the ruin of hundreds of thousands of lives.

But in most of your opinions, it's perfectly okay for Indonesia to let convicted terrorists walk free, as long as they keep executing drug-mules. Why don't you all sit back and think about that for a while and maybe start to ask yourselves Why is that?

In most cases your self analysis will find that the lights are on but no one is in!

Who is agreeing that terrorist are fine to be set free

Indonesia has done no favours to themselves by releasing these criminals

There are a lot more that need putting down

[JockPieandBeans]

I find it just incredible the amount of numpties on here who claim to know that drugs are the ruin of thousands of lives. It is the illegality of drugs that is the ruin of hundreds of thousands of lives.

Why ? will Heroin be less toxic if it was made legal ?

Here is a report about Scotland from 2009 with a population circa 5M.

The report puts the combined cost of drugs and alcohol misuse at just under £5 billion, £2.6 billion for drug and £2.25 billion for alcohol.

The public sector spent £173 million last year on direct measures to tackle the problem, including £84million for drug treatment and £30 million for alcohol services.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/5050530/Drug-and-alcohol-abuse-costs-Scotland-5billion-per-year.html

That's annually.

I would hazard a guess that there is far more people in Scotland that have alcohol issues than drug issues.

[FarangKino]

I find it just incredible the amount of numpties on here who claim to know that drugs are the ruin of thousands of lives. It is the illegality of drugs that is the ruin of hundreds of thousands of lives.

But in most of your opinions, it's perfectly okay for Indonesia to let convicted terrorists walk free, as long as they keep executing drug-mules. Why don't you all sit back and think about that for a while and maybe start to ask yourselves Why is that?

In most cases your self analysis will find that the lights are on but no one is in!

But.....surely it's much easier to believe the politicians and newspaper headlines, and then to write knowledgably on forums like this, than to have to think about things.....come on!

It's all those scummy druggies that suffer from Attention Span Deficiency - not us!

[boomerangutang]

These drug smugglers are no more responsible for the actions of irresponsible drug takers than are gun dealers for the irresponsible actions of gun owners .

Interesting comparison. "Drugs don't kill, people do it to themselves." People ingest the drugs (including alcohol, sugar, tobacco). They aren't forced in to a person's bloodstream (unless we're talking about a fetus or an infant who's forced to take drugs or smoke cigs). Where is personal responsibility in this debate? Non-existent. Draconian drug laws are an extention of police states where peoples' every action need to be legislated. It also happens with sex. In many countries, particularly Muslim, types of sexual gratification, and gender of sex partners is closely monitored, with harsh penalties for deviation.

If you like big brother dictating what you cannot do in your bedroom, you'll love big brother telling you what you cannot put in to your blood.

[chooka]

I find it just incredible the amount of numpties on here who claim to know that drugs are the ruin of thousands of lives. It is the illegality of drugs that is the ruin of hundreds of thousands of lives.

But in most of your opinions, it's perfectly okay for Indonesia to let convicted terrorists walk free, as long as they keep executing drug-mules. Why don't you all sit back and think about that for a while and maybe start to ask yourselves Why is that?

In most cases your self analysis will find that the lights are on but no one is in!

I believe they should execute terrorists, paedophiles and drug dealers/mules, they are all equal pieces of excrement.

[Equalizer]

All people who criticize the taking and supplying of drugs are hypocrites, uneducated and easily mislead most of all naive. People who use or support capital punishment are cowards, ill informed and also naive. I sit here reading tripe about a human being who has been murdered for supplying a drug that releases the very same dopamine in the brain as alcohol, yet because this drug has been politically alienated in world society due to its low cost production along with the inability to police it. We have to buy into a world of drugs that are only available when prescribed. Establishments are completely against all form of drugs that can offer a modicum of pleasure yet they will freely allow the consumption of drugs that will keep us alive to continue grinding the economic cog that we are born to turn. Hypocritically these same people who deprive human beings from indulging in dopamine releasing narcotics cannot themselves live in a world without legally allowing some IE alcohol and tobacco. Fact there is more alcoholics in this world than heroin addicts. Many of them still function in society and hold down their jobs. Truth is no drugs are actually good for a perfectly healthy body FACT. As for capital punishment America makes me laugh. Considered a Christian nation by the founding fathers If you can see it from another perspective there is an interesting point to be argued. We all know America is a super religious country and one of the 10 commandments is ''You shall not murder''. ‘’Check out this guys quote’’: State Senator Ralph Storey told Sky News: "If it got to the point where we didn't have the technological advancements to have lethal injections, I would support hanging or beheading or whatever it would take to make sure that person, in the end, meets his justice''. My point is no matter how you call it, someone has to take another person’s life, and in this case they call them executioners. This man paid a person money to murder someone so in a literal sense State Senator Ralph Storey is also paying another person to murder him. Human beings have managed to incorporate classifications and so you could argue murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human. Generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). Now unless these politicians are classing themselves as above the words of the god they revere, where is their justification? and who will be there to offer a shoulder to cry on for the executioner when it is time for him to meet his maker and he gets turned away from the pearly gates. I am in no way religious however all these live or die decision makers are! The fact that maybe taking another person’s life no matter what the crime is has to be lowering one’s self to the standards of the convicted man. This is not about compassion, this is about principle.

[djlest]

Makes me laugh - Death Penalty for smuggling drugs!
Yet Cigararettes and Alcohol kill more people than Heroin ever does.
Yes drugs are nasty, yes drugs are addictive, but so are cigarattes, alcohol, fast food, preservatives, and half the crap we consume today...

Furthermore, all of us at one time or other have taken heroin opiates, whether at the dentists or when you had your appendix removed.
Death sentence for this is just wrong... However taking out the main man at the top. The mafia perse would be justifiable.
However, they have promised these poor mules to pay off their debts or ease their troubles with just one run, no different at all to cigarette advertising companies or drink advertising.
Where do we draw the line?

[ukrules]

Out of interest I wonder if the Indonesian (Zainal Abidin) who was executed was a Muslim.

His conviction appears to be something to do with marijuana according to the news reports.

Edited April 29, 2015 by ukrules

[Chao Lao Beach]

In 2 weeks time, the average Aussie would have forgottion their names and Tony will be onto his next distraction from the dodgy budget !!!!!

[mommysboy]

Deliberately killing people, isn't that murder ?

[Muhendis]

These drug smugglers are no more responsible for the actions of irresponsible drug takers than are gun dealers for the irresponsible actions of gun owners.

There is a huge difference between owning a gun and owning drugs. Becoming addicted to drugs and thinking you can fly from the tenth floor balcony is very different to having a gun and pointing it at someone knowing they will die if you pull the trigger. Addiction is the key to understanding the difference between a gun supplier and a drug supplier. Both will make money but only the drug supplier is directly responsible for the addiction and resulting death of his customer.

[simple1]

Out of interest I wonder if the Indonesian (Zainal Abidin) who was executed was a Muslim.

His conviction appears to be something to do with marijuana according to the news reports.

Zainal is a Muslim name

[ukrules]

Out of interest I wonder if the Indonesian (Zainal Abidin) who was executed was a Muslim.

His conviction appears to be something to do with marijuana according to the news reports.

Zainal is a Muslim name

I see, thanks. I've been looking into these people who were executed today and this guy really stands out from the rest.

He doesn't belong in that list of people, his crime was very different to theirs. They were all convicted of being involved with the supply of heroin apart from Zainal who was apparently arrested with two others (the guys he was working for or so he said) for some marijuana related charge. His two co-conspirators served a prison sentence and have already been released. He was executed with an appeal still working its way through the courts.

One of the others was originally sentenced to life in prison in 1999 but his sentence was 'upgraded to death' in 2006. This seems a little unusual. Maybe he couldn't keep up the payments ?

[thousandpercent]

Now that all is said and done, there are some lessons to be learned here, one is that the Australian government

will not spare any effort to save the sorry ass of convicted crimeless, PM FM and MP's present and past

will beg, grovel, threat, offer money, boycott and prostate themselves all in order to show how liberal

and humane they're, sending the wrong message to would be drug's smugglers that Australia will protect

you in what ever crimes you commit,

Second, hopefully some would be offenders will heed the message of keeping away from such activities,

Last but not least, was it worth it all? I'm sure the last thoughts of the condemn would have been 'what

in god's name am I doing here and how did I get in to this mess in the first place?'........

Gender & race can seemingly play their part elsewhere:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/aug/06/samantha-orobator-pregnant-laos-jail

The Pu$$y Pass is valid everywhere in the world. In the US, men get 63% longer sentences than women for the same crimes. And this doesn't account for women being complained of much less, investigated far less aggressively, prosecuted less often and for lesser charges, and convicted much less often. If you want to be a criminal, it's smart to be a woman. No matter what you do, even child rape and murder, you'll be viewed as a victim and get sympathy. Just like the woman in this case.

[lvr181]

Executions have happened. Get over it people. Move forward and those who wish to become involved in drugs in countries who prescribe the death penalty should learn the lesson. My condolences to the families of those who were executed, have been executed and will be executed.

Don't complain after you've been caught do the wrong thing. The drowning man clutches at the straw. Whether it is religion or something else that should be seen as your "saviour" just DON'T do things that are illegal in the country where you carry out your "criminal" activities. Life can be harsh and people should learn the lessons of life. Do not worry about politicians grandstanding for their own benefit or lawyers trying to make name for themselves (on the back of "representing" criminal clients), nothing would have happened and there would have been NO PROBLEM without the criminal activities of the participants in the first instance.

[Sealbash]

I don't know what Indonesia exports but believe incoming orders from many nations will slow and, maybe, stop altogether. Indonesia is a country that needs much from the world and may find, also, that the world is " out of stock" , charitable. voluntary, donations and non catastrophic aid will dry up + + +

I do not have the exact numbers, but approximately 1400 executed in the USA since 1980. Unknown how many executed in China. And Saudi. Etc etc. I do not think their exports suffered?

[boomerangutang]

These drug smugglers are no more responsible for the actions of irresponsible drug takers than are gun dealers for the irresponsible actions of gun owners.

There is a huge difference between owning a gun and owning drugs. Becoming addicted to drugs and thinking you can fly from the tenth floor balcony is very different to having a gun and pointing it at someone knowing they will die if you pull the trigger. Addiction is the key to understanding the difference between a gun supplier and a drug supplier. Both will make money but only the drug supplier is directly responsible for the addiction and resulting death of his customer.

"Becoming addicted to drugs and thinking you can fly from the tenth floor balcony"

That's the sort of silly image that right-wing establishmentarianists want everyone to believe: WORST CASE SCENARIO. For every addict that thinks he can fly, there are probably 500,000 addicts who never believe such foolishness. People drop off of high balconies every week. Some drink Pepsi, some eat hamburgers, some do the tango. You wanna say drinking Pepsi or eating hamburgers or doing the tango lead to suicide?

"....very different to having a gun and pointing it at someone"

Fersure. Pointing a gun at someone involves at least two people: the aggressor and the prey/victim. Doing drugs usually involves just one person choosing to get high and relax, perhaps listen to some music on headphones or eat some cookies. Big difference.

"Addiction is the key to understanding the difference between a gun supplier and a drug supplier." And guns aren't addictive? Try going in a gun-owners house and taking his guns 'n see what sort of reaction you get.

[wlcart]

These drug smugglers are no more responsible for the actions of irresponsible drug takers than are gun dealers for the irresponsible actions of gun owners.

There is a huge difference between owning a gun and owning drugs. Becoming addicted to drugs and thinking you can fly from the tenth floor balcony is very different to having a gun and pointing it at someone knowing they will die if you pull the trigger. Addiction is the key to understanding the difference between a gun supplier and a drug supplier. Both will make money but only the drug supplier is directly responsible for the addiction and resulting death of his customer.

nonsense

not everyone who does drugs thinks they can fly. most people who do drugs do so without harming anyone or even themselves. the unfortunate people who do abuse drugs need medical and physiological help, not to be thrown in jail and certainly not murdered by the state. criminalizing drugs helps no one.

People should be able to own a gun, and people should be able to do drugs, if they do so responsibly. that is called freedom.

too many people have swallowed the war on drugs propaganda hook line and sinker.

[boomerangutang]

I find it just incredible the amount of numpties on here who claim to know that drugs are the ruin of thousands of lives. It is the illegality of drugs that is the ruin of hundreds of thousands of lives.

But in most of your opinions, it's perfectly okay for Indonesia to let convicted terrorists walk free, as long as they keep executing drug-mules. Why don't you all sit back and think about that for a while and maybe start to ask yourselves Why is that?

In most cases your self analysis will find that the lights are on but no one is in!

I believe they should execute terrorists, paedophiles and drug dealers/mules, they are all equal pieces of excrement.

What about dealers of the two most deadly types of drugs? . . . .Alcohol and Pharma. That would be interesting. You could get some deputies and go out and round up as many alcohol and pharma peddlers as you can fit in your SUV. Take 'em to the execution chamber, kill 'em, then go out and get another load, and so on, over and over. You'd be mighty busy, that's for sure.

[boomerangutang]

These drug smugglers are no more responsible for the actions of irresponsible drug takers than are gun dealers for the irresponsible actions of gun owners.

There is a huge difference between owning a gun and owning drugs. Becoming addicted to drugs and thinking you can fly from the tenth floor balcony is very different to having a gun and pointing it at someone knowing they will die if you pull the trigger. Addiction is the key to understanding the difference between a gun supplier and a drug supplier. Both will make money but only the drug supplier is directly responsible for the addiction and resulting death of his customer.

nonsense

not everyone who does drugs thinks they can fly. most people who do drugs do so without harming anyone or even themselves. the unfortunate people who do abuse drugs need medical and physiological help, not to be thrown in jail and certainly not murdered by the state. criminalizing drugs helps no one.

People should be able to own a gun, and people should be able to do drugs, if they do so responsibly. that is called freedom.

too many people have swallowed the war on drugs propaganda hook line and sinker.

I agree with everything wlcart mentions, except the phrase enlarged above; "criminalizing drugs helps no one."

Criminalizing drugs helps the following:

>>> Politicians who want to gain popularity by demonizing others less well-off than themselves.

>>> Police, DEA, border cops and many other uniformed people get the lion's share of their revenue from the War on Drugs

>>> Alcohol industry benefits, by remaining the world's only legal recreational drug

>>> Drug Cartel bosses become billionaires

>>> Hospitals and pharma drugs sell more of their stuff and services, as well as ambulances, and suppliers for law enforcement.

>>> 3rd world countries like Thailand and Indonesia get heaps of money funneled through DEA and other US hand-outs (humvees, etc.)

[HerbalEd]

Let us for a moment assume that they were convicted by a real court, on real evidence - not by a mickey mouse court, <deleted>land style.

The death penalty would still be a horror, an abomination.

But it would be a horror, an abomination that is not high on my list. After all, those people were serial murderers.

Serial murderers? Let's for a moment say you are right. Then why do you say nothing about the literally millions of people world-wide who are being slowly ... but surely ... killed by alcohol and tobacco? Are the people who make money from that innocent because it's legal?