Indonesia executes drug convicts, defying global anger

[simple1]

In today's only Australian national newspaper, The Australian, is a front page report that the current government of Australia last year advised the Australian Federal Police not to take into consideration the death penalty when sharing info on Australians with foreign government agencies. If the report is accurate it stinks of Australian government policy deceit in its dealing with Indonesia over the executions and a blow to the reputation of the PM and Foreign Minister of Australia.

[fritzzz25]

All people who criticize the taking and supplying of drugs are hypocrites, uneducated and easily mislead most of all naive. People who use or support capital punishment are cowards, ill informed and also naive. I sit here reading tripe about a human being who has been murdered for supplying a drug that releases the very same dopamine in the brain as alcohol, yet because this drug has been politically alienated in world society due to its low cost production along with the inability to police it. We have to buy into a world of drugs that are only available when prescribed. Establishments are completely against all form of drugs that can offer a modicum of pleasure yet they will freely allow the consumption of drugs that will keep us alive to continue grinding the economic cog that we are born to turn. Hypocritically these same people who deprive human beings from indulging in dopamine releasing narcotics cannot themselves live in a world without legally allowing some IE alcohol and tobacco. Fact there is more alcoholics in this world than heroin addicts. Many of them still function in society and hold down their jobs. Truth is no drugs are actually good for a perfectly healthy body FACT. As for capital punishment America makes me laugh. Considered a Christian nation by the founding fathers If you can see it from another perspective there is an interesting point to be argued. We all know America is a super religious country and one of the 10 commandments is ''You shall not murder''. ‘’Check out this guys quote’’: State Senator Ralph Storey told Sky News: "If it got to the point where we didn't have the technological advancements to have lethal injections, I would support hanging or beheading or whatever it would take to make sure that person, in the end, meets his justice''. My point is no matter how you call it, someone has to take another person’s life, and in this case they call them executioners. This man paid a person money to murder someone so in a literal sense State Senator Ralph Storey is also paying another person to murder him. Human beings have managed to incorporate classifications and so you could argue murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human. Generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). Now unless these politicians are classing themselves as above the words of the god they revere, where is their justification? and who will be there to offer a shoulder to cry on for the executioner when it is time for him to meet his maker and he gets turned away from the pearly gates. I am in no way religious however all these live or die decision makers are! The fact that maybe taking another person’s life no matter what the crime is has to be lowering one’s self to the standards of the convicted man. This is not about compassion, this is about principle.

I don't know about you, but I prefer the person who is "pushing" drugs onto me to have 8 plus years of university medical school after having completed grade school with high marks. At least they know the benefits and harmful side effects, and explain them to me. Some dealer in an alley with heroin "cut" with drain cleaner to spread his batch further isn't going to tell me that taking this drug will likely do more harm to my body than good.

Heroin, which is actually diacetylmorphine, was created for medical use (as was Ketamine which is still used today on infants and the elderly in hospital settings) and it was later realized that the negative effects (addiction) outweighed the therapeutic benefits and it was eventually replaced by other analgesics with less addictive properties (we all know opioid addiction occurs with all opioids and as such they need to prescribed with care).

The bottom line to this. They CHOSE to smuggle drugs in and out of a country with a death penalty. I am sure they KNEW that the maximum penalty was death. It wasn't like these guys were mentally challenged and could not understand the consequences of their actions.

Having worked in law enforcement and seeing the destruction that these drugs do, these people were no loss to society. Heroin kills people from overdoses. If one enables the heroin to get to the street, they have just assisted these users and as such if a user dies, then they are complicit in a homicide.

[Stargeezr]

I must be a Barbarian, as I support the death penalty for murder in the first degree,

and in Indonesia's case, for drug dealers, as well. Unfortunately for me, my country's government

decided for me and the population of my country, to end the death penalty. I guess

we have become far too civilized to kill off the scum in my country, who should have

stopped breathing, a few months after their trials.

We did have the death penalty when I was a teenager, but sadly it ended after I became an

adult, even though the population in my country never had a vote in the way the

decision was made. And I do live in a democratic country!

Oh well this is just another of my Red Neck opinions!

[Dannyboy666]

All people who criticize the taking and supplying of drugs are hypocrites, uneducated and easily mislead most of all naive. People who use or support capital punishment are cowards, ill informed and also naive. I sit here reading tripe about a human being who has been murdered for supplying a drug that releases the very same dopamine in the brain as alcohol, yet because this drug has been politically alienated in world society due to its low cost production along with the inability to police it. We have to buy into a world of drugs that are only available when prescribed. Establishments are completely against all form of drugs that can offer a modicum of pleasure yet they will freely allow the consumption of drugs that will keep us alive to continue grinding the economic cog that we are born to turn. Hypocritically these same people who deprive human beings from indulging in dopamine releasing narcotics cannot themselves live in a world without legally allowing some IE alcohol and tobacco. Fact there is more alcoholics in this world than heroin addicts. Many of them still function in society and hold down their jobs. Truth is no drugs are actually good for a perfectly healthy body FACT. As for capital punishment America makes me laugh. Considered a Christian nation by the founding fathers If you can see it from another perspective there is an interesting point to be argued. We all know America is a super religious country and one of the 10 commandments is ''You shall not murder''. Check out this guys quote: State Senator Ralph Storey told Sky News: "If it got to the point where we didn't have the technological advancements to have lethal injections, I would support hanging or beheading or whatever it would take to make sure that person, in the end, meets his justice''. My point is no matter how you call it, someone has to take another persons life, and in this case they call them executioners. This man paid a person money to murder someone so in a literal sense State Senator Ralph Storey is also paying another person to murder him. Human beings have managed to incorporate classifications and so you could argue murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human. Generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). Now unless these politicians are classing themselves as above the words of the god they revere, where is their justification? and who will be there to offer a shoulder to cry on for the executioner when it is time for him to meet his maker and he gets turned away from the pearly gates. I am in no way religious however all these live or die decision makers are! The fact that maybe taking another persons life no matter what the crime is has to be lowering ones self to the standards of the convicted man. This is not about compassion, this is about principle.

I don't know about you, but I prefer the person who is "pushing" drugs onto me to have 8 plus years of university medical school after having completed grade school with high marks. At least they know the benefits and harmful side effects, and explain them to me. Some dealer in an alley with heroin "cut" with drain cleaner to spread his batch further isn't going to tell me that taking this drug will likely do more harm to my body than good.

Heroin, which is actually diacetylmorphine, was created for medical use (as was Ketamine which is still used today on infants and the elderly in hospital settings) and it was later realized that the negative effects (addiction) outweighed the therapeutic benefits and it was eventually replaced by other analgesics with less addictive properties (we all know opioid addiction occurs with all opioids and as such they need to prescribed with care).

The bottom line to this. They CHOSE to smuggle drugs in and out of a country with a death penalty. I am sure they KNEW that the maximum penalty was death. It wasn't like these guys were mentally challenged and could not understand the consequences of their actions.

Having worked in law enforcement and seeing the destruction that these drugs do, these people were no loss to society. Heroin kills people from overdoses. If one enables the heroin to get to the street, they have just assisted these users and as such if a user dies, then they are complicit in a homicide.

Key Word here Law Enforcement, another one with the Failed War on Drugs Diatribe, yeah my stepdad was DEA, I heard all this crap growing up, it's a Failure, Get it into your Thick Skulls

[Biloger]

When a filipina in KL is asked to travel to Indonesia with a new luggage given to her and to call a stranger after arrival, she should have realized that this is what drug mule do...calling a stranger on arrival. Did she provide this info after being arrested? I suspect not. If she did, she just provided the proof she was a drug mule. But then again we don't know all the story.

[chooka]

Indonesia has to put the low level drug runners to death so that they can then serve the same sentence to the drug lords. Soon you will see some rich and powerful drug lords in Indonesia before a firing squad.

Sukumaran and Chan were not low level drug runners (mules)

Sukumaran, Chan, Lawrence and Norman were part of a larger syndicate that successfully imported a commercial quantity of heroin into Australia from Indonesia on 23 October 2004. Other members of the syndicate were arrested in 14 AFP raids in Sydney and Brisbane on the same day they were arrested in indonesia in early May 2005.

They were involved in the planning, provided free airfares and accommodation for the mules as well as sim cards to allow them to be contacted. Chen received the heroin from a Thai woman and it was then distributed between the mules to be conveyed to Australia. When Chen was arrested he was not in possession of drugs but had nine (9) mobile phones in his possession, each phone had a single phone number recorded which married up to the individual phones carried by the mules. Chen was to collect the drugs from the mules after they cleared customs in Australia.

They used the mules as fodder and would have known very well that if thier cattle were caught they would face the death penalty and didn't give a rats about them, they were an expendable commodity in thier business. The mules are doing life in prison.

The arguments by the pro criminal element that they were lovely good guys who had reformed is just rubbish. They may have been top blokes in thier criminal circles but ask thier victims families how sweet and lovely they were. They weren't just two guys who made one silly mistake in thier lives, they were career drug importers. The only regrets they have was that they were caught and thier business collapsed. If they weren't caught it would be business as usual and they would probably be sitting in thier mansions sipping cocktails whilst feeding off the misery of others.

[oneday]

This new Indonesian president is nothing but a low-life, scum-of-the-earth barbarian. I will never plan a trip to Indonesia and I hope many people around the world stop going to Indonesia. You don't kill people because of drugs.

[F4UCorsair]

Killing someone for marijuana is just wrong. It is legal in some countries.

It would be like killing Indonesian Muslims for shisha tobacco in Australia.

I can understand regarding hard additive drugs but Pot ?

Flawed logic here.

Regardless of what drug it was, or what the penalties are in other countries, they were found guilty of drug offences in Indonesia, and the penalty for the offences of which they were found guilty, is death.

I don't agree that adequate consideration was given to the Australians' rehabilitation, and I don't know enough about the others to comment, but perhaps some of them should have commutation of sentences considered also.

It's an awful penalty, but I read that it wasn't their first mission, and given that an estimate that there are 2 deaths for every kilo of heroin that hits the streets, apart from a lot of suffering, they have caused significant health problems, and hardship for families.

[boomerangutang]

Let us for a moment assume that they were convicted by a real court, on real evidence - not by a mickey mouse court, <deleted>land style.

The death penalty would still be a horror, an abomination.

But it would be a horror, an abomination that is not high on my list. After all, those people were serial murderers.

Serial murderers? Let's for a moment say you are right. Then why do you say nothing about the literally millions of people world-wide who are being slowly ... but surely ... killed by alcohol and tobacco? Are the people who make money from that innocent because it's legal?

Good point. Here's a thought experiment:

Suppose I was a great chemist, had a bazillion dollars, and was a promotional expert on par with that Virgin British guy.

I invented a white powder which was lovely sweet and could be mixed with half the products in the grocery store to make them extra sweet. Then I used my riches to promote the powder, while becoming bosom buddies with most of the politicians, who I also paid to help promote my products. Then, years later, it was found my great white product destroyed peoples' health (and killed people). At the very least, it contributed to half the people in western countries becoming grossly obese.

Every little bit of legislation, even a bid to ban super-size drinks (in one city) containing my wonder product, were shut down by me, because I'm so rich and have powerful friends in high places.

How is my product less harmful than illegal drugs, for example; pot? Note: possession of pot can get a person legally killed in most SE Asian countries.

[captspectre]

Now that all is said and done, there are some lessons to be learned here, one is that the Australian government

will not spare any effort to save the sorry ass of convicted crimeless, PM FM and MP's present and past

will beg, grovel, threat, offer money, boycott and prostate themselves all in order to show how liberal

and humane they're, sending the wrong message to would be drug's smugglers that Australia will protect

you in what ever crimes you commit,

Second, hopefully some would be offenders will heed the message of keeping away from such activities,

Last but not least, was it worth it all? I'm sure the last thoughts of the condemn would have been 'what

in god's name am I doing here and how did I get in to this mess in the first place?'........

only a bombed out idiot would take a chance and smuggle drugs into indonesia! this policy had been in effect for may years and they have not been cowed by the knee jerk liberals of whatever nation who's ignorant stupid citizens have tried to screw the pooch! no sympahty here! get them all and send them back home to their countries in body bags!

[captspectre]

Drug runners knowingly do what they do, death penalties included when you operate in certain countries. There is another issue here and that is how the Indonesian Government have stage managed this saga. Photos of a prisoner in transfer, coffins being transported to 'death island'. The deliberate action of making the families (members of which are innocent) walk through a media scrum yesterday on their final visit was well orchestrated and only designed for public consumption. It is well known that Indonesia has the death penalty for serious drug offences so why do this?

Surely publicity is not the answer. So what is?

the answer is very simple, if you are a scumbag drug smuggler, stay away from indonesia!

[boomerangutang]

There are basically two types of observers posting herein:

One type of poster sticks with establishment and their rules. If the law is extant, find out about it, adhere to it, don't deviate. It matters not whether the law makes sense or the punishment is way too harsh.

The other type of poster is defiant and not afraid to speak up against silly and cruel laws - like the boy in 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. It's also the type of person who may skirt ridiculous rules, restrictions and laws when possible - instead of mindlessly following what Big Brother mandates.

Regarding drugs, I've tried them all, but haven't done any since I was 22. No fermented sugar (alcohol), no pot, no opiates, and as little sugar and MSG as possible (though difficult to avoid in Thailand). On the other side of the coin, I've entered and split from Burma a dozen times with no dealings with border agents. Call me odd, if you want, but I get a little thrill from crossing int'l borders without getting noticed (I legally reside in Thailand, though). I don't condone porting bits of illegal recreational drugs in or out of countries, but the penalties vs the crime, in the Indonesian state-sponsored murders, are waaaaaaay out of kilter. A lot more than a half bubble out of plumb, if you know what I mean. Indonesian authorities come out looking cold-hearted and mean-spirited. They've lost a lot of face on this execution episode.

[lvr181]

This new Indonesian president is nothing but a low-life, scum-of-the-earth barbarian. I will never plan a trip to Indonesia and I hope many people around the world stop going to Indonesia. You don't kill people because of drugs.

So, what will you do to drug dealers (who are heaping misery on many others)? Give them a smack on the hand and tell them to get religion?

When in Indonesia, recognise their laws (whether you agree with them or not - and that applies to any country) and stay out of trouble. Sometimes getting into trouble can be "terminal".

Obviously too difficult for many people to understand these basic principles !!

And really, I don't think the Indonesian President gives a damn what you think about him or whether you will never plan a trip there. He was elected by his people and one of his election promises was about drugs. Suck it up sunshine - that is life.

[JLCrab]

From a post above: Call me odd, if you want... OK, you're odd. Anything else?

[stag4]

[quote name="captspectre" post="9356241" timestamp=



only a bombed out idiot would take a chance and smuggle drugs into indonesia! this policy had been in effect for may years and they have not been cowed by the knee jerk liberals of whatever nation who's ignorant stupid citizens have tried to screw the pooch! no sympahty here! get them all and send them back home to their countries in body bags!


They were taking drugs out of Bali not in!

[Chao Lao Beach]

the hang'em high brigade are not intelligent enough to understand the subtleties of the issue, they can only react as they've been taught to.

Can you think of a more effective way to publicize the fact that one should not try and smuggle drugs into Indonesia?

Can you?

Yes, it is free advertisement for this cause you mention, but the fact is you are wrong, these drugs were going OUT. Not to worry, in the emd it is same same but different.

[evadgib]

http://www.bbc.com/news/england/gloucestershire

[blueyeshk]

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/bali-terrorist-muhammad-cholili-freed-on-parole-as-18year-jail-sentence-halved/story-fni0cx12-1227017261729

So they kill People for drugs, and free people who kill u must be really on something to understand this.

[fritzzz25]

All people who criticize the taking and supplying of drugs are hypocrites, uneducated and easily mislead most of all naive. People who use or support capital punishment are cowards, ill informed and also naive. I sit here reading tripe about a human being who has been murdered for supplying a drug that releases the very same dopamine in the brain as alcohol, yet because this drug has been politically alienated in world society due to its low cost production along with the inability to police it. We have to buy into a world of drugs that are only available when prescribed. Establishments are completely against all form of drugs that can offer a modicum of pleasure yet they will freely allow the consumption of drugs that will keep us alive to continue grinding the economic cog that we are born to turn. Hypocritically these same people who deprive human beings from indulging in dopamine releasing narcotics cannot themselves live in a world without legally allowing some IE alcohol and tobacco. Fact there is more alcoholics in this world than heroin addicts. Many of them still function in society and hold down their jobs. Truth is no drugs are actually good for a perfectly healthy body FACT. As for capital punishment America makes me laugh. Considered a Christian nation by the founding fathers If you can see it from another perspective there is an interesting point to be argued. We all know America is a super religious country and one of the 10 commandments is ''You shall not murder''. Check out this guys quote: State Senator Ralph Storey told Sky News: "If it got to the point where we didn't have the technological advancements to have lethal injections, I would support hanging or beheading or whatever it would take to make sure that person, in the end, meets his justice''. My point is no matter how you call it, someone has to take another persons life, and in this case they call them executioners. This man paid a person money to murder someone so in a literal sense State Senator Ralph Storey is also paying another person to murder him. Human beings have managed to incorporate classifications and so you could argue murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human. Generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). Now unless these politicians are classing themselves as above the words of the god they revere, where is their justification? and who will be there to offer a shoulder to cry on for the executioner when it is time for him to meet his maker and he gets turned away from the pearly gates. I am in no way religious however all these live or die decision makers are! The fact that maybe taking another persons life no matter what the crime is has to be lowering ones self to the standards of the convicted man. This is not about compassion, this is about principle.

I don't know about you, but I prefer the person who is "pushing" drugs onto me to have 8 plus years of university medical school after having completed grade school with high marks. At least they know the benefits and harmful side effects, and explain them to me. Some dealer in an alley with heroin "cut" with drain cleaner to spread his batch further isn't going to tell me that taking this drug will likely do more harm to my body than good.

Heroin, which is actually diacetylmorphine, was created for medical use (as was Ketamine which is still used today on infants and the elderly in hospital settings) and it was later realized that the negative effects (addiction) outweighed the therapeutic benefits and it was eventually replaced by other analgesics with less addictive properties (we all know opioid addiction occurs with all opioids and as such they need to prescribed with care).

The bottom line to this. They CHOSE to smuggle drugs in and out of a country with a death penalty. I am sure they KNEW that the maximum penalty was death. It wasn't like these guys were mentally challenged and could not understand the consequences of their actions.

Having worked in law enforcement and seeing the destruction that these drugs do, these people were no loss to society. Heroin kills people from overdoses. If one enables the heroin to get to the street, they have just assisted these users and as such if a user dies, then they are complicit in a homicide.

Key Word here Law Enforcement, another one with the Failed War on Drugs Diatribe, yeah my stepdad was DEA, I heard all this crap growing up, it's a Failure, Get it into your Thick Skulls

Can't see where Indonesia failed on this one......

[lostoday]

the hang'em high brigade are not intelligent enough to understand the subtleties of the issue, they can only react as they've been taught to.

Can you think of a more effective way to publicize the fact that one should not try and smuggle drugs into Indonesia?

Can you?

Yes, it is free advertisement for this cause you mention, but the fact is you are wrong, these drugs were going OUT. Not to worry, in the emd it is same same but different.

I have to admit I didn't know much about it. Found out much by reading about it after the fact. The Australian police gave up the men to the Indonesian authorities and Australia is still giving Indonesia the same amount of aid, 600 million as before the shooting. Seems withdrawing ambassador was just a placebo effect.

The Australian Federal Police by turning in the drug dealers knowing the penalty is certainly complicit in the executions.

Edited April 30, 2015 by lostoday

[lvr181]

the hang'em high brigade are not intelligent enough to understand the subtleties of the issue, they can only react as they've been taught to.

Can you think of a more effective way to publicize the fact that one should not try and smuggle drugs into Indonesia?

Can you?

Yes, it is free advertisement for this cause you mention, but the fact is you are wrong, these drugs were going OUT. Not to worry, in the emd it is same same but different.

I have to admit I didn't know much about it. Found out much by reading about it after the fact. The Australian police gave up the men to the Indonesian authorities and Australia is still giving Indonesia the same amount of aid, 600 million as before the shooting. Seems withdrawing ambassador was just a placebo effect.

The Australian Federal Police by turning in the drug dealers knowing the penalty is certainly complicit in the executions.

Ah yes, lets put the blame of the executions onto some one else. The AFP cannot be blamed, politicians would not be grandstanding and lawyers would not be grandstanding either IF Chan and Sukumaran had not committed the offence/s in the first instance, or had not been involved with drugs at an earlier time !!

But I do wonder, who was paying for the defence lawyers?

[lostoday]

Ah yes, lets put the blame of the executions onto some one else. The AFP cannot be blamed, politicians would not be grandstanding and lawyers would not be grandstanding either IF Chan and Sukumaran had not committed the offence/s in the first instance, or had not been involved with drugs at an earlier time !!

But I do wonder, who was paying for the defence lawyers?

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were only arrested in Indonesia because the Australian Federal Police tipped off their Indonesian counterparts. The law that allowed this must be rectified, writes Daniel Webb. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-29/webb-bali-9-time-to-death-penalty-proof-our-afp/6431604

The whole thing seems a sham to me. A hint that Indonesia would lose the 600 million in aid would have stopped the execution or if Australia was really serious why did they turn in the drug dealers to the Indonesian police?

[Chicog]

Funny how they all seem to treat them like martyrs now.

[empireboy]

When did two wrongs start making things right?

Death Penalties are draconian and unevolved.

Real solutions don't start with death!

[lostoday]

When did two wrongs start making things right?

Death Penalties are draconian and unevolved.

Real solutions don't start with death!

I don't want to point fingers but the majority of the world with death penalties is draconian and not evolved eh?

Death is quite an effective media statement. Why did the Buddhist monks burn themselves in Vietnam?

Death gets media coverage. Indonesia wants to tell the world they will not tolerate drug smuggling and they did.

I don't agree with it but they did get millions of dollars of free advertising about don't carry drugs in Indonesia.

[jdinasia]

From a post above: Call me odd, if you want... OK, you're odd. Anything else?

Yeppers, he's odd. Openly admitting to such things is silly.

[MobileContent]

Those chaps have been 8-10 years in jail and finally got the bullet. Their are drug addicts who have been on drugs for 8-10 years and when they got an overdosis or the golden shoot no one gives a damnbut when a couple of drug pushers get convicted and finally face the bullet they are portayed as the good guys.

[runningfree73]

I think Indonesia was making a stand on principle in terms of not bowing to pressure from Australia, however, it's unlikely that clemency would have ever been granted whatever the circumstances, although in my opinion it should have been.

In their early twenties when arrested they were guilty of stupidity and greed and were, in fact, only low level dealers. Sure, they deserved to be punished, and they were, spending 9 years on death row in the hell hole of an Indonesian prison. As Andrew Chan's brother rightly pointed out, he was the victim of a flawed legal system. Both were victims of not only a flawed legal system but a totally inhumane one as well.

Edited April 30, 2015 by runningfree73

[simple1]

I think Indonesia was making a stand on principle in terms of not bowing to pressure from Australia, however, it's unlikely that clemency would have ever been granted whatever the circumstances, although in my opinion it should have been.

In their early twenties when arrested they were guilty of stupidity and greed and were, in fact, only low level dealers. Sure, they deserved to be punished, and they were, spending 9 years on death row in the hell hole of an Indonesian prison. As Andrew Chan's brother rightly pointed out, he was the victim of a flawed legal system. Both were victims of not only a flawed legal system but a totally inhumane one as well.

Not sure of your definition of low level drug dealers, but they arranged for a number of heroin importations into Australia and were connected with allegedly one of the world's biggest heroin cartel; Crescent Moon.

Edited April 30, 2015 by simple1

[NickJ]

Indo.....a muslim hell hole. Oz takes the 600 mill away.....there screwd.....its like living next door to a bunch of apes that know how to steal hubcaps