Thai court grants Koh Tao evidence review for pair accused of Brit murders

[aslimversgwm]

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Will a report from the British police be released?

Please see my post no. 61 - NO

[Si Thea01]

now all they have to do is be sure that they get the genuine evidence not what the prosecution is claiming to be the real evidence, could be very interesting as I am sure there are certain things they will not want to come out.

So you're intimating that the prosecution may provide the defence team with fabricated or false evidence and conceal from them the real facts. Have you read what you have written? If this were to happen, which, in my mind, there is no doubt that it could not nor would not occur, as it would require not a major conspiracy but a monumental one to be in play.

How many police personnel, forensic staff, prosecutors, witnesses, court staff, and judges, to name just a few, do you think would have to be involved for something, such as you suggest, to occur. Think about it. Now, you're also sure the are certain things that they will not want to come out.

Please, you know as much as I do, sweet bugger all, so why do you think you know so much and post in such a manner. if you know as much as you're trying to suggest, then maybe you should go along and offer your two bob's worth to the defence team. There's an old saying that we have back home, "You would be laughed out of court."

SiThea, while you basically call doubters of the official story here naive, your very own naiveness shines like a full moon in a crystal clear night sky. It does not take a monumental conspiracy to achieve what was achieved so far (the true murderers/rapists free and patsies caught and accused), especially after the DNA samples were allegedly stored in the headman's fridge. There was ample time and opportunity to mess with and remove/exchange evidence in the very beginning of the investigation, where prime suspects can be seen on photos trampling about the murder scene. A cigarette bud taken away here, while another is placed there, blood stained clothes removed and burned, changing the contents of the DNA samples in the fridge, etc. even messing with the hoe, was all possible even without the need of support by the RTP plus is there a big chance of postmortem rape of Hannah's body, or the possibility that she had consensual sex with someone prior to the time of the murder...

What official storey are you referring to? Doubter, naïve, your words, not mine. never wrote or intimated any such thing. If you want to respond fine, but don't change things around or add words in an attempt to discredit what I've posted. I might suggest that you're in need of a reality check if you think because someone has asked a number of questions of another poster that they have a readiness to believe the claims of others without sufficient evidence. (Naiveness) Please enlighten me as to what you're on about? What claims am I believing? I have no idea who committed the offenses and neither do you. To say otherwise is a total misconception.

You are making some spurious allegations in respect of the two alleged killers (Defendants). What is your expertise/background, given that you are not, never will be involved in the investigation, yet you are able to tell us that the real killers/rapists, have not been detained and that the two persons in custody are innocent. So you have a Police/legal background, have gained access to all the evidence, have accepted that the hearsay, innuendo and allegations that are flying around are gospel, therefore, in your infinite wisdom, you have gone from TVF lead Investigator ( Detective) to judge and found in favour of the defendants. (Not Guilty) On what grounds? You say that I suffer from naiveness, I would say that you suffer from delusions of grandeur if you truly believe what you are proffering.

Neither you, I or anyone else on here has any factual knowledge of what occurred, however, like everyone else, we have access to what is written in newspaper articles but not to the evidence obtained. Sure, if one accepts that there is some truth in the articles, taking into account the misleading police statements and the contamination of the crime scene, and some other matters that you raised then concerns have to be raised and questions asked but not answered by anyone on here. Why? Because they cannot.

You raise the point of the DNA being kept in the Headman's fridge, or as you put it, allegedly. Remember what that word means? You also raise many other points, none of which I raised when posting so why you have, one can only guess as to your motives. As for those additional points you raised, anything is possible but without proof, all you have is allegations, so what are you trying to prove by raising them when none were the subject of my post?

So summarising everything you have to say, you are convinced that a criminal conspiracy has taken place, with or without the support of the RTP, that there was a big chance of a post mortem rape occurring, or like the fence sitter that you are, she may have had consensual sex prior to her murder. Go over what you have written and tell me if you really believe what you say?

Edited May 1, 2015 by Si Thea01

[Si Thea01]

now all they have to do is be sure that they get the genuine evidence not what the prosecution is claiming to be the real evidence, could be very interesting as I am sure there are certain things they will not want to come out.

So you're intimating that the prosecution may provide the defence team with fabricated or false evidence and conceal from them the real facts. Have you read what you have written? If this were to happen, which, in my mind, there is no doubt that it could not nor would not occur, as it would require not a major conspiracy but a monumental one to be in play.

How many police personnel, forensic staff, prosecutors, witnesses, court staff, and judges, to name just a few, do you think would have to be involved for something, such as you suggest, to occur. Think about it. Now, you're also sure the are certain things that they will not want to come out.

Please, you know as much as I do, sweet bugger all, so why do you think you know so much and post in such a manner. if you know as much as you're trying to suggest, then maybe you should go along and offer your two bob's worth to the defence team. There's an old saying that we have back home, "You would be laughed out of court."

Laughed out of court ? This is a Thai court.

So what? Don't you think Thais have a sense of humour? If they saw some of the hotshot detective work on here they'd be in hysterics.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Si Thea01

[aslimversgwm]

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I've written to our embassy in Bangkok asking them to release the Metropolitan Police's report to the defence team and all I got back was as follows:

Once again questions about the role of the police who came from Britain and I really don't know what some posters expected.

They were here where they have no jurisdiction and were reliant on their hosts being forthcoming or otherwise. They could ask to see things but if refused that was it, no authority or right to demand.

I'm sure their report would have reflected views on co-operation or lack of it and that's their role completed. Release of their findings, in whole or in part, is out of their hands and is all down to what the Foreign office thinks should be made public and i would think nothing will be said until after the two lads have been tried.

Diplomacy trumps many things.

"Dear Mr ..........

Thank you for your e-mail of 6 December about the tragic murder of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand.

The UK police did not undertake an investigation on Koh Tao, or elsewhere in Thailand, into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. The investigation was a matter for the Thai authorities. The British police travelled to Thailand as observers to get a better understanding of the investigation conducted by the Royal Thai Police . The UK police officers subsequently visited the families of the murder victims and verbally explained what they had observed as well as the judicial process in Thailand. The UK police are preparing a report based on the observations of the police who visited Thailand. The report will be for the UK police only and will not be publicly released.

Kind regards" etc

I then asked the Metropolitan Police for release of their report to the defence team under the UK's Freedom of Information Act

as follows:

"Freedom of Information Act 2000: Report on observations of Thai police murder investigation on Koh Tao

Your enquiry: I sent you an email using this link on 11th February, 2015 and have had no response. Copy of its contents below. Please can you reply to it now:
Under the Freedom of information Act 2000 I request that the report made by the Metropolitan Police on the observations made of the Thai police's investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Koh Tao, Thailand last year be released in full to the defence lawyers defending the accused Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo.
The head of the defence team is Nakhon Chompuchat (Head Defence Team Lawyer <snip>
Thank you, in anticipation, David Cartwright.
Perhaps you can also confirm if the report has been released to the defence team lawyer, detailed above?

and received this response - after a 2nd attempt (NO response when I originally sent my request in Feb):

"Thankyou for your E-mail You would have to speak to your own Police who then would get in touch with the london Authorities"

Very helpful - NOT! If this was in the UK the police would HAVE to release the report to the defence.

It's outrageous to think our cops went to Thailand, at considerable taxpayers expense, to 'observe' (NOT investigate - as I was corrected by our FCO/Embassy friends) and then only show it to the victim's families.

How can those poor families really believe a fair trial is going to take place with contaminated evidence and 'secret' police reports?

[jdinasia]

Aslim -

This is not the UK. If it were the UK, sub judice would prevent them from replying to you on the chance it would taint the trial.

[IslandLover]

We shouldn't get our hopes up. What are the chances the evidence has been properly preserved? Nil, judging by the RTP performance to date. And any exculpatory evidence will certainly have been "misplaced"

Now this is he reason we should get our hopes up. There is no evidence so none of it has been preserved.

If the original samples are still available they should contain the Caucasian female victim's DNA as well as the Asian perps. That would be difficult to falsify and fool Dr Porntip (who is the named independent verifier of this evidence). Even if there is only a DNA analysis report it should contain enough information to verify two sets of DNA.

What concerns me more is that the RTP are being required to forward their DNA samples - which could have been tampered with - thus it's not necessarily an independent verification from the original source. It really does require an independent and fresh DNA sample from the B2, at the very least.

I'm hoping the defence will insist on this.

From the Guardian article:

Andy Hall, a rights activist from Britain who works closely with migrant workers in Thailand, said the defence would also be allowed to request new DNA tests of the suspects.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/thailand-dna-british-backpacker-murders-burmese-suspects?CMP=share_btn_fb

[IslandLover]

It would appear that the British Police have leaked their findings to the Victims Families which is unfortunate in that it prejudges the findings against the accused.

The British police were obliged to provide the victims' families with their findings. But exactly what findings are those? Those provided to them by the RTP of course since the British police were only allowed to act as observers during their visit to Thailand.

[Jimbolai]

They will convict and kill the innocent Burmese boys to shield the village thugs. Case closed, but the stain on Thailand is forever. It shows Thailand as a medieval backwards place to be avoided at all cost. Thai-ness at its best.

[IslandLover]

I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

Quote from the Miller family: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.”

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html)

The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

The key words here are "appears to be". Not quite the same as "is".

[wabothai]

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Once again questions about the role of the police who came from Britain and I really don't know what some posters expected.

They were here where they have no jurisdiction and were reliant on their hosts being forthcoming or otherwise. They could ask to see things but if refused that was it, no authority or right to demand.

I'm sure their report would have reflected views on co-operation or lack of it and that's their role completed. Release of their findings, in whole or in part, is out of their hands and is all down to what the Foreign office thinks should be made public and i would think nothing will be said until after the two lads have been tried.

Diplomacy trumps many things.

I've written to our embassy in Bangkok asking them to release the Metropolitan Police's report to the defence team and all I got back was as follows:

"Dear Mr Cartwright

Thank you for your e-mail of 6 December about the tragic murder of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand.

The UK police did not undertake an investigation on Koh Tao, or elsewhere in Thailand, into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. The investigation was a matter for the Thai authorities. The British police travelled to Thailand as observers to get a better understanding of the investigation conducted by the Royal Thai Police . The UK police officers subsequently visited the families of the murder victims and verbally explained what they had observed as well as the judicial process in Thailand. The UK police are preparing a report based on the observations of the police who visited Thailand. The report will be for the UK police only and will not be publicly released.

Kind regards" etc

I then asked the Metropolitan Police for release of their report to the defence team under the UK's Freedom of Information Act

as follows:

"Freedom of Information Act 2000: Report on observations of Thai police murder investigation on Koh Tao

Your enquiry: I sent you an email using this link on 11th February, 2015 and have had no response. Copy of its contents below. Please can you reply to it now:
Under the Freedom of information Act 2000 I request that the report made by the Metropolitan Police on the observations made of the Thai police's investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Koh Tao, Thailand last year be released in full to the defence lawyers defending the accused Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo.
The head of the defence team is Nakhon Chompuchat (Head Defence Team Lawyer <snip>
Thank you, in anticipation, David Cartwright.
Perhaps you can also confirm if the report has been released to the defence team lawyer, detailed above?

and received this response - after a 2nd attempt (NO response when I originally sent my request in Feb):

"Thankyou for your E-mail You would have to speak to your own Police who then would get in touch with the london Authorities"

Very helpful - NOT! If this was in the UK the police would HAVE to release the report to the defence.

It's outrageous to think our cops went to Thailand, at considerable taxpayers expense, to 'observe' (NOT investigate - as I was corrected by our FCO/Embassy friends) and then only show it to the victim's families.

How can those poor families really believe a fair trial is going to take place with contaminated evidence and 'secret' police reports?

Embassies are mainly there to maintain proper diplomatic relations in order to promote en facilitate business. THEY WILL NOT JEOPARDIZE THAT.

We will just have to sit this one out and hope that the court will do the job she is assigned to do which is being impartial and fair.

If that is not the case at a later point we can raise bloody hell.

[AleG]

So they are, in fact, getting a fair and transparent trial in which the defense team (and others that have jumped on the bandwagon) get to examine the evidence and contest it if possible, something to which the prosecution doesn't object to.

That doesn't fit very well with some grand conspiracies that have been peddled here.

Edited May 1, 2015 by AleG

[jdinasia]

I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

Quote from the Miller family: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.”

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html)

The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

The key words here are "appears to be". Not quite the same as "is".

Coming from a source that is far more informed, and with an actual personal investment in the case ; I will take that "appears to be" as exactly what it appears to be. A call for the trial the go forward.

Also in the article was a call for an end to the speculation.

[AleG]

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I've written to our embassy in Bangkok asking them to release the Metropolitan Police's report to the defence team and all I got back was as follows:

"Dear Mr Cartwright

Thank you for your e-mail of 6 December about the tragic murder of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand.

The UK police did not undertake an investigation on Koh Tao, or elsewhere in Thailand, into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. The investigation was a matter for the Thai authorities. The British police travelled to Thailand as observers to get a better understanding of the investigation conducted by the Royal Thai Police . The UK police officers subsequently visited the families of the murder victims and verbally explained what they had observed as well as the judicial process in Thailand. The UK police are preparing a report based on the observations of the police who visited Thailand. The report will be for the UK police only and will not be publicly released.

Kind regards" etc

I then asked the Metropolitan Police for release of their report to the defence team under the UK's Freedom of Information Act

as follows:

"Freedom of Information Act 2000: Report on observations of Thai police murder investigation on Koh Tao

Your enquiry: I sent you an email using this link on 11th February, 2015 and have had no response. Copy of its contents below. Please can you reply to it now:

Under the Freedom of information Act 2000 I request that the report made by the Metropolitan Police on the observations made of the Thai police's investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Koh Tao, Thailand last year be released in full to the defence lawyers defending the accused Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo.

The head of the defence team is Nakhon Chompuchat (Head Defence Team Lawyer <snip>

Thank you, in anticipation, David Cartwright.

Perhaps you can also confirm if the report has been released to the defence team lawyer, detailed above?

and received this response - after a 2nd attempt (NO response when I originally sent my request in Feb):

"Thankyou for your E-mail You would have to speak to your own Police who then would get in touch with the london Authorities"

Very helpful - NOT! If this was in the UK the police would HAVE to release the report to the defence.

It's outrageous to think our cops went to Thailand, at considerable taxpayers expense, to 'observe' (NOT investigate - as I was corrected by our FCO/Embassy friends) and then only show it to the victim's families.

How can those poor families really believe a fair trial is going to take place with contaminated evidence and 'secret' police reports?

Embassies are mainly there to maintain proper diplomatic relations in order to promote en facilitate business. THEY WILL NOT JEOPARDIZE THAT.

We will just have to sit this one out and hope that the court will do the job she is assigned to do which is being impartial and fair.

If that is not the case at a later point we can raise bloody hell.

Well, that's a theory; reality,for instance, is that Thailand is on the brink of being slapped with trade sanctions by the EU (of which England is part of) over human right abuses in the fishing industry which is a main supplier for the UK. So much for not jeopardizing business above everything else then.

That they would jump through hoops and be part of a conspiracy to hide "the truth" over the murder of two of their nationals to help out the Thai government over some undefined business interest is not only unsupported, but it's also illogical and in contradiction with other events.

[boomerangutang]

Will a report from the British police be released?

Not sure about Brit Police, as all they have is what one or more Thai cops told them in their very brief stay at the island. Regarding Brit Coroner: earlier she announced she would release findings on January 6, '15. Just before that date, she said she wouldn't, but may (emphasis on 'may') release findings after the trial, in October or November '15. It's her prerogative. No matter that, in a murder case in the UK, the Brit coroner would release data within days of the murder. Could there be any pressure from highest levels of Thai officialdom for Brits to withhold info? You tell me.

[Alwyn]

It doesn't matter what the truth is, either way they will be found guilty.Can you inagine the loss of facefor the 'PM' if they were found not guilty after personally awarding the efficiency of the police with cash? That on it's own might be enough for the citizens of Thailand to kick off about this junta and it's self-appointed PM so not guilty? Not an option.

Cash?

I do remember him giving cash 'rewards' to the police for their sterling work, having said that I was unable to find a link just now!

Edited May 1, 2015 by Alwyn

[NanLaew]

Will a report from the British police be released?

Not sure about Brit Police, as all they have is what one or more Thai cops told them in their very brief stay at the island. Regarding Brit Coroner: earlier she announced she would release findings on January 6, '15. Just before that date, she said she wouldn't, but may (emphasis on 'may') release findings after the trial, in October or November '15. It's her prerogative. No matter that, in a murder case in the UK, the Brit coroner would release data within days of the murder. Could there be any pressure from highest levels of Thai officialdom for Brits to withhold info? You tell me.

Doubtful. Even though sub-judice can't be applied in this case, there's absolutely no value to the UK Coroner releasing anything. If she issued something condemning the Thai investigation, the only joyful people will be the TV armchair sleuths and CIS wannabe's. It will have no effect on how things play out in court in Thailand. If they did heed any official outcry from the UK, the best they could hope for is another Thai cold case, similar to the one where British backpacker Kirsty Jones was raped and murdered in 2001. Allegedly the RTP have a complete DNA profile of her killer but nothing ever happens. If the Coroner issues something that goes along with the Thai investigation, the same group will be upset but once again, of no consequence to any prosecution or trial in Thailand except to possibly let it all go cold, just like they have done with Kirsty's case.

Edited May 1, 2015 by NanLaew

[jdinasia]

It doesn't matter what the truth is, either way they will be found guilty.Can you inagine the loss of facefor the 'PM' if they were found not guilty after personally awarding the efficiency of the police with cash? That on it's own might be enough for the citizens of Thailand to kick off about this junta and it's self-appointed PM so not guilty? Not an option.

Cash?

I do remember him giving cash 'rewards' to the police for their sterling work, having said that I was unable to find a link just now!

I have never heard that claim.

[BuckBee]

When the police chief on koh tao %100 denies of any mafia type setup you know they lie blatantly straight away .

No idea on the pairs guilt/involvement but I do believe a lot is missing from the real events ...

Lack of coroners report from uk & general uk foreign office support is a real shame .

[boomerangutang]

There will be implications for the BIB should the defense team show that the two ere in fact innocent. How they get will out of that will be interesting as the ramifications internally and then for the search of suspects at large will open up a whole new can of worms.Watch this space.

Even if the B2 get released for 'lack of evidence' or whatever - there won't be any search or renewed scrutiny of those who should be suspects. It's more likely Silvester Stallone gets a sex-change and sings the Star Spangled Banner, dressed only in a pink tutu, at the next Super Bowl.

[NanLaew]

It doesn't matter what the truth is, either way they will be found guilty.Can you inagine the loss of facefor the 'PM' if they were found not guilty after personally awarding the efficiency of the police with cash? That on it's own might be enough for the citizens of Thailand to kick off about this junta and it's self-appointed PM so not guilty? Not an option.

Cash?

I do remember him giving cash 'rewards' to the police for their sterling work, having said that I was unable to find a link just now!

I have never heard that claim.

I do. I think this should jog some memories.

Edited May 1, 2015 by NanLaew

[cookee68]

Many people think it is not these two that did it, and many people including me think that it is these two boys, and i think the Thai police are confident, to even let them check all the evidence, independantly, tells me they are confident they have the right people, regardless of all the social media hype, which we know can be many things

[jdinasia]

It doesn't matter what the truth is, either way they will be found guilty.Can you inagine the loss of facefor the 'PM' if they were found not guilty after personally awarding the efficiency of the police with cash? That on it's own might be enough for the citizens of Thailand to kick off about this junta and it's self-appointed PM so not guilty? Not an option.

Cash?

I do remember him giving cash 'rewards' to the police for their sterling work, having said that I was unable to find a link just now!

I have never heard that claim.

I do. I think this should jog some memories.

No mention of cash in the article.

[berybert]

I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

Quote from the Miller family: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.”

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html)

The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

The key words here are "appears to be". Not quite the same as "is".

I didn't bother to reply to the original post from Docno because the Millar family were being quoted by a 3rd party.

[IslandLover]

I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

Quote from the Miller family: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.”

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html)

The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

The key words here are "appears to be". Not quite the same as "is".

I didn't bother to reply to the original post from Docno because the Millar family were being quoted by a 3rd party.

The Miller and Witheridge families did write those words contained in the joint statement apparently, which was conveyed to the media via the FCO. I took that to mean that the FCO didn't write it for them.

[berybert]

The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

The key words here are "appears to be". Not quite the same as "is".

I didn't bother to reply to the original post from Docno because the Millar family were being quoted by a 3rd party.

The Miller and Witheridge families did write those words contained in the joint statement apparently, which was conveyed to the media via the FCO. I took that to mean that the FCO didn't write it for them.

I think the FCO are as capable as the RTP of making words say what they want them to say.

[Happy Grumpy]

This is before a trial, commented by the Prime Minister:

BANGKOK — Junta leader and Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha says Thai police will be rewarded for arresting two Burmese workers accused of murdering two British tourists in southern Thailand last month.

"I have checked whether the suspects are truly the perpetrators, and I have received confirmation from the police chief that they cannot be scapegoats because DNA tests have proved their guilt," Gen. Prayuth said.

Again, spoken to the media, by the prime minister, before a trial even begins.

What hope do they have of a fair trial. Zero. All evidence given to independent investigators will be switched. Any body who thinks otherwise simply hasn't lived in Thailand long enough to understand.

[NongKhaiKid]

This is before a trial, commented by the Prime Minister:

BANGKOK — Junta leader and Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha says Thai police will be rewarded for arresting two Burmese workers accused of murdering two British tourists in southern Thailand last month.

"I have checked whether the suspects are truly the perpetrators, and I have received confirmation from the police chief that they cannot be scapegoats because DNA tests have proved their guilt," Gen. Prayuth said.

Again, spoken to the media, by the prime minister, before a trial even begins.

What hope do they have of a fair trial. Zero. All evidence given to independent investigators will be switched. Any body who thinks otherwise simply hasn't lived in Thailand long enough to understand.

They may not have to switch anything just hand over the original items possibly obtained from a suspect source or by suspect means.

Remember the initial carry on about DNA testing which was to be done in the States, then it was to be Singapore then suddenly it was decided it could be done here ?

[SLESQ]

News from Andy Hall on the Defense Teams work. The trial has yet to start and already there are some who see guilt where there is none. Please keep an open mind and give meaningful support to the defense of these two innocent lads.

[jdinasia]

News from Andy Hall on the Defense Teams work. The trial has yet to start and already there are some who see guilt where there is none. Please keep an open mind and give meaningful support to the defense of these two innocent lads.

"We have argued throughout that we can’t say for sure they are innocent.". ---Andy Hall

[greenchair]

We shouldn't get our hopes up. What are the chances the evidence has been properly preserved? Nil, judging by the RTP performance to date. And any exculpatory evidence will certainly have been "misplaced"

Now this is he reason we should get our hopes up. There is no evidence so none of it has been preserved.

No evidence?

What about the DNA evidence found inside her body. This is ALL that is needed to send these two down!!

In questioning them they incriminated themselves (maybe without realising it). When asked why their DNA was found on the outside of a condom - they freely replied (not under duress or torture) that, and I quote "their DNA couldn't have been found on the condoms as they didn't use them WHEN they violated her"!!

That's the same as accusing somebody of killing someone by saying to them "did you hold the gun in your right hand or left hand"? only for them to reply with "neither, as I killed them with a knife not a gun".

Since interviews are not recorded, there would be no evidence that they actually said that. The person that wrote the quote may well have added a little of his own interpretation.

They may have said simply.

"We don't use condoms when we have sex"

This has a whole different meaning. Not to mention that you yourself have quoted incorrectly, as it has never been said the b2 dna was on that condom. Only that Hannah's dna was not on it. The dna on the condom (if any) has never been matched to anyone. In fact later the police said the condom had nothing to do with the crime scene.