Thai court grants Koh Tao evidence review for pair accused of Brit murders

[pasak]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

It was a very nice holiday

regards Worgeordie

We proceeded in a southerly direction to arrive at our aforesaid destination where we was well taken care of by the 'Eadman and his entourage. 'Avin deduced there'd been no foul play, we produced our truncheons, offered up our 'elmets and had a nice time with the local ladies... all paid for by our kind hosts.

The Met team would know and have been well briefed of what to expect and the do's and dont's. Anyone stepping out of line could have caused a diplomatic incident and given their hosts all they needed to discredit their presence especially if the investigation was highly questionable and you don't want outsiders asking questions.

I hesitate to believe that many people in positions of authority fully know what they are doing. Suave and urbane they may well be but all too often the Englishman abroad is underneath a bumbling fool; naive and ignorant. We've observed Mark Kent's feeble efforts and his sycophantic behaviour. Perhaps he's been briefed by the same handbook that tells hotel guests to wai the doorman.

[AleG]

ZERO proof anyone on the island had anything to do with this except the two in custody....

For the first 10 days after the crime, police claimed they had two prime suspects, one of whom was evading arrest. Chief cop claimed he had solid evidence and would be making arrests soon. CCTV footage was part of that evidence, and would still be, were it not for the self-appointment of a new head cop (who out-ranked the prior head-cop), and that's where the investigation did a 180 degree turn, and from that moment on, no evidence was sought for the original two prime suspects.

Here's some more of what JTJ would call 'ZERO proof' (actually 'evidence' would be a better word). Proof is we're hoping will be determined at the trial.

>>> CCTV footage and witness accounts of activities in the two beach bars, on that fateful night. Ooops sorry, almost forgot, the CCTV footage was not handed over by the families of the prime suspects. Oh well, guess we can't use any of that.

>>> Weaponized finger ring seen on a man (who should be a prime suspect also) which matches David's wounds. Indeed, that's why police have always stuck to their ridiculous assertion that the sharp end of the hoe caused David's wounds - because cops have been trying to divert attention from the real weapon. They've fooled no one with that conspirational ruse, except perhaps JTJ, Jdinasis, and AleG.

>>> Assertions by Sean, backed by a photo. It's no surprise to any of us seeking justice, that Sean was shunted out of the country a.s.a.p., and as quick as possible. If Sean is sought as a witness by the defense, you can bet your '64 Ford Mustang there are powerful entities who will do all they can to ensure that never happens.

"For the first 10 days after the crime, police claimed they had two prime suspects, one of whom was evading arrest. Chief cop claimed he had solid evidence and would be making arrests soon. CCTV footage was part of that evidence, and would still be, were it not for the self-appointment of a new head cop (who out-ranked the prior head-cop), and that's where the investigation did a 180 degree turn, and from that moment on, no evidence was sought for the original two prime suspects."

You know this to be false, you keep repeating it, do you understand what that makes you? Certainly not someone interested in the truth, let alone justice.

Nomsod, your obsession in life, was not on the island at the time of the murders; reality is not going to change if you keep repeating your fantasies.

Here's the footage that proves it, from before of the time of the murders until 9:15AM of the same day as reviewed by journalists:

Now, of course, tell yourself it's all fake and keep on repeating your fantasies.

[berybert]

Pity goldbuggy isn't a witness for the prosecution. The defence could rip his incorrect testimony to shreds. Let's just pick one major flaw into all of the hang-em-high brigade. David Miller's DNA wasn't found on the hoe. No mention of his DNA on either of the B2 nor the B2's DNA on the hoe that was used to kill the female victim. So how was DM killed, and by who? The RTP would state that an unnamed and missing weapon was used.

Without any DNA evidence or murder weapon to link the B2 to DM, they have no DNA case to answer in respect of DM's death. However you guys put a 'spin' on it, it should be impossible (beyond reasonable doubt) for the court to convict the B2 of his death because they happened to be in the vicinity of the murder scene at 1am (and found sleeping in their beds at 5am). The prosecution needs more circumstantial evidence to strengthen their case.

Finally, for this post, all TVF have been privy to is the RTP's version of events, which is yet to be accepted as 'factual' by the court. No-one on here has had any feedback from the defence's counter arguments, other than the defence is confident that their case is strong enough to set the B2 free.

So, assuming (incorrectly) we know all the facts and evidence in the case and assuming (incorrectly) all news reports are true and the two on trial semen was found in one of the victims, one of the victims property was found outside their home and a witness says he was given the property to destroy along with numerous other witnesses' and physical evidence putting them at the rape and murder scene around the time frame the crime occurred .... you figure the judges would believe without reasonable doubt that they killed or raped one of victims but not killed the other because they couldn't find one of the murder weapons?

It is sick the extent some will got to in order to defend these two very likely rapist murdering scum.

It is also pretty sick to attack two people who so far have not been found guilty of anything.

Here's a question for you regarding the phone. They killed David and Hannah and stole one of their phones, the phone didn't work. 2 questions really.

1, you steal a phone, it doesn't work, do you A give it to someone else who wont be able to get it to work or B try and sell it to another English person you will without doubt be seeing with in the next 12 hours. Not forgetting selling the phone would be worth a months wages to them.

The original question was, why would you give a phone that doesn't work to someone else who wouldn't be able to get it to work. Then why would that person smash the phone up and throw it behind the living quarters of the people who gave it to you.

If I was a minimum wage earner and had the chance to earn a months wages by selling a phone to an English person that is what I would do. I wouldn't give it away.

But being as you are privy to information the rest of us don't have I am sure you know better.

[berybert]

Re Si Thea01

Firstly, there is such a thing as evidence management, which is practiced by the RTP and those within the judiciary, and if you doubt this, do some research and you will find out that it is fact and only highlights just how ludicrous your statements are.

Is the wanton contamination of a murder crime scene an example of evidence management ? I would suggest you re-think.

You may want to read the rest of his post.

I remember the first policeman stating that some people have tried to destroy evidence - and my point is that the evidence management displayed in this investigation falls far short of competent, whether or not it is accidental.

Was this in some personal conversation you had with a policeman or something you can share a link to a news report with this quote?

One thing that was widely reported earlier was they confessed to police and then met with lawyers, embassy officials and human rights worker outside of police presence and once again admitted the were responsible. Of course later they said they were threatened by police and now the word tortured is being used despite no physical evidence to suggest such a thing and physical evidence (medical exams) to disprove this.

You seem to have forgotten the RTP despite what was it 3 or 4 times being asked to attend a hearing with regard the claims of torcher, never showed up.

But again you seem to be privy to information the rest of us don't have.

P.S most here are not Thai police bashing as such. We were happy enough when the first police chief was in charge of the case. I think you need to wonder why as soon as he was replaced the whole case changed course.

[berybert]

If I remember correctly no DNA testing was done outside the country. Initally it was to be in the US then changed to Singapore then finally decided it could be done here. Read into that what you want !

Where does it say it was never sent to Singapore?

"Somyot said the DNA of two Asian men was found at the crime scene and had been sent to Singapore for advanced analysis"

It certainly may not have been but I don't recall reading any news report saying it was not sent to Singapore. I have read on the other hand that the DNA from the crime scene was sent to numerous separate labs within Thailand that were trying to keep up with comparing it to the hundreds of samples they collected from potential suspects. In other words, the DNA from the crime scene is on file in numerous places including labs at universities. The DNA tested from the crime scene is also going to have a HUGE paper trail both physical papers and within numerous computer systems. So unless you believe the police planted these suspects DNA at the crime scene the day it was collected from the crime scene there is no reasonable way to dispute follow-up tests that confirm it was their DNA (sperm) in the victim was from the suspects. It also in illogical to believe the police and lab believed they'd get away with falssifying the original DNA comparison that identified these two. All the police with access to the original DNA findings as well as all the labs and technicians involved in comparing samples early on are not part of some grand conspiracy to protect some tiny island headsman's son whose DNA did not match and has credible proof he was in Bangkok at the time of the murders despite early rumors.

So your way of trying to convince people that the DNA was sent to Singapore is to tell them it was sent to many different labs within Thailand.

I hope this is the kind of reasoning the prosecution use.

That is an incredibly strange reasoning and thought process you are using. Is this for real or are you just purposely being obtuse as so many are when it comes to this case. The point I made is extremely clear as is the fact I state it may not have been sent to Singapore but the only thing I know that was reported is it was (never saw a report saying it was not) and numerous labs being used in Thailand have nothing to do with it being sent to Singapore and there is not even the slightest hint or suggestion in my post it does.

Is the above reasoning the same type you use when considering this case? You really have to ask yourself what is your true motivation.

Strangely enough I think you should consider what my motivation is.

1, I have never been to Koh Tao

2, I will never go to Koh Tao

3, I have no financial links to Koh Tao

4, I don't personally know the accused

5, I don't know any of the families that run Koh Tao

So there as you can see I would appear to have no motive to find the accused guilty or innocent. I simply put 2 and 2 together and make 4.

Now would you like to follow my lead and let us know why you are so desperate to find the accused guilty ?

Oh and if you think I would be happy to see two murdering scumbags get off scot free to carry on killing just so I can bash some Thai policemen on an internet forum, say no more huh.

Edited May 3, 2015 by berybert

[berybert]

The victims' families have said they have seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

These are the only people involved in the case whose motivation to see the real killers brought to justice shouldn't be questioned. And nobody can dispute they know more about the evidence and case then any of us.

I'll admit they may have some evidence that posters on T.Visa don't have. However, I doubt the Brit victim's families (as opposed to the Burmese victims' families) know as much about how things operate in Thailand as some posters here.

Don't forget John, Brit experts were expressly forbidden from doing any investigating whatsoever. They were only on the island for a matter of hours. We saw one photo (in a newspaper) of them standing on a beach with some Thai cop minders, and it wasn't even the crime scene (there were trees all around).

Yes because we know the Britts are morons and sent morons who had no idea how Thailand operates and simply believed everything they were told and had no clue they came to deal with skepticism of the case and that their fear of Thai relations trumps any desire for justice for their own citizens. As for many Thaivisa posters, it is clear they know little to nothing about Thailand and spend their time complaining with other unhappy people as opposed to the millions upon millions who live or flock to Thailand year after year because of all the beauty this country and its people have. If you knew anything about Miramar (an actual 3rd world country) then you would know the defendant's families realize Thailand is a much fairer place for them to be put on trial and accused of a crime.

Miramar is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to human rights and rape is not only common but common and accepted use of control by the military and police. These two defendants come from a place in Miramar that has seen some of the worst acts of violence and rape in that country.

But yes, you and other TV posters are more superior and know more than Britt officials, Thai officials, the victim's families and in this case are as informed as poor Burmese whose family sneak into Thailand for a better life.

Edit: and the news reported UK investigators had been on the island at least a day before the official trip with Thai police ... not that it takes that long to view and understand where a crime previously occurred.

Thank you JTJ. You have finally put my mind at rest regard the family. In your own words they are morons. So we can now discard everything they have said about the case.

Thank you once again.

Another P.S. You don't like people who bash Thais but yourself have no problem bashing Burmese. Quite the ticket aint ya.

Edited May 3, 2015 by berybert

[GOLDBUGGY]

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"If found guilty at their trial -- which is expected to start in early July -- they could face the death penalty, in a case that tarnished Thailand's image as a tourist haven."

Isn't it too much overstated?

They are facing the Death Penalty now. This is why their Lawyers are trying so hard to find a Loop Hole.

One of the main reasons why the Prosecution showed Hannah's Family evidence, or at least explained to them what they have, was to justify why they are going for the Death Penalty. This was clearly stated in that news article.

I don't think this will tarnish their image. Singapore has the Death Penalty for Drugs for many years. I remember quite a few years back when 2 Australian Men were charged for Drug Smuggling and then put to death within that week. The Australian Government was so upset as they didn't even have time for a rebuttal. The bottom line is that this did not hurt their trade our tourism.

Personally I am against Capital Punishment. But then this was not my daughter who was raped and murdered. If it were I am sure I could quite easily change my mind about this. So I guess I am neutral. .

[mcm991]

Wow ... the whole front line is all suited up after the break.

JD, JTJ, AleG and the new muscle Goldilocks and other assorted hangers on.

A couple more and you bunch can form the full firing squad ...... that should give your masters good value.

[IslandLover]

Yes because we know the Britts are morons and sent morons who had no idea how Thailand operates and simply believed everything they were told and had no clue they came to deal with skepticism of the case and that their fear of Thai relations trumps any desire for justice for their own citizens. As for many Thaivisa posters, it is clear they know little to nothing about Thailand and spend their time complaining with other unhappy people as opposed to the millions upon millions who live or flock to Thailand year after year because of all the beauty this country and its people have. If you knew anything about Miramar (an actual 3rd world country) then you would know the defendant's families realize Thailand is a much fairer place for them to be put on trial and accused of a crime.

Miramar is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to human rights and rape is not only common but common and accepted use of control by the military and police. These two defendants come from a place in Miramar that has seen some of the worst acts of violence and rape in that country.

But yes, you and other TV posters are more superior and know more than Britt officials, Thai officials, the victim's families and in this case are as informed as poor Burmese whose family sneak into Thailand for a better life.

Edit: and the news reported UK investigators had been on the island at least a day before the official trip with Thai police ... not that it takes that long to view and understand where a crime previously occurred.

Where the <deleted> is Miramar??? Perhaps you mean Myanmar? FYI the two accused come from Arakan State and much of the violence there is perpetrated by the Rohingya (ethnic Bangladeshis) who are of a different religious persuasion than the majority population who have much in common with the Thais. It's more than a coincidence that the B2 were interrogated and beaten up by a so-called translator who happened to be a Rohingya.

You must really hate the Burmese people to make such vicious comments.

Edited May 4, 2015 by IslandLover

[stephenterry]

Re Si Thea01

Firstly, there is such a thing as evidence management, which is practiced by the RTP and those within the judiciary, and if you doubt this, do some research and you will find out that it is fact and only highlights just how ludicrous your statements are.

Is the wanton contamination of a murder crime scene an example of evidence management ? I would suggest you re-think.

You may want to read the rest of his post.

I remember the first policeman stating that some people have tried to destroy evidence - and my point is that the evidence management displayed in this investigation falls far short of competent, whether or not it is accidental.

Not only are you selective but you also base your theories on memory and hearsay. Did you, in relation to the policeman's alleged statement, take contemporaneous notes at the time or is it all stored in the brain. The latter can play funny tricks on one's ability to recall you know. So they tried to destroy evidence, not destroyed evidence. If they tried, then they weren't successful, which is what the statement you mention alludes to, then I would say that the evidence management was in place and put there by competent people.

Now, if you know what is involved in evidence management, which I doubt very much you do, as you are now suggesting that the management is incompetent, whether or not it is accidental. How in the hell can it be accidental? Either the people have the skills to implement it successfully or they don't. Also, there are many people involved in the safe management of evidence, so are you saying that they're all incompetent, just a few, one or two, how many? Don't be so ambiguous in your postings or is it you just have a problem in dealing with the facts?

Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

So, no, my memory is correct. Clearly yours, isn't. From your posts, it seems to me that the initial collecting of evidence doesn't need managing properly for it to pass the competency criteria. Had the police sealed off the crime scene and not allowed all and sundry access, especially Mon, there wouldn't have been attempts to destroy evidence - that is proper evidence management.

[Si Thea01]

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"If found guilty at their trial -- which is expected to start in early July -- they could face the death penalty, in a case that tarnished Thailand's image as a tourist haven."

Isn't it too much overstated?

They are facing the Death Penalty now. This is why their Lawyers are trying so hard to find a Loop Hole.

One of the main reasons why the Prosecution showed Hannah's Family evidence, or at least explained to them what they have, was to justify why they are going for the Death Penalty. This was clearly stated in that news article.

I don't think this will tarnish their image. Singapore has the Death Penalty for Drugs for many years. I remember quite a few years back when 2 Australian Men were charged for Drug Smuggling and then put to death within that week. The Australian Government was so upset as they didn't even have time for a rebuttal. The bottom line is that this did not hurt their trade our tourism.

Personally I am against Capital Punishment. But then this was not my daughter who was raped and murdered. If it were I am sure I could quite easily change my mind about this. So I guess I am neutral. .

I agree that it is most unlikely for this incident to tarnish the tourism of this country were they to be found guilty and subsequently executed. Does not seem to have affected other countries who have carried out executions. In so far as this matter is concerned, the conclusion is some time off, and we must remember that the trail has not yet begun. Even if they were adjudged guilty and a death sentence imposed, then they have avenues of appeal, which could drag on for years.

The appeal could be dismissed, a death sentence imposed or a term of life imprisonment substituted or the appeal upheld and the conviction quashed. Once all avenues of appeal have been exhausted, they also have the right to seek a royal pardon, so this matter is far from being concluded in the manner many think will occur. Each of us are entitled to our opinions but really emotions should not form the basis of those opinions. None of us can foresee the future, so why are there so many illegitimate claims being made, as the only persons who truly know what occurred on that fateful night are the defendants and, for obvious reasons, they have now withdrawn their initial confessions and are pleading not guilty.

Now, If I may, and hope you don't mind, I would like to correct the reference you made to the Australian executions, which are all drug related.. There has only been one person executed in Singapore, an Australian, Van Tuong Nguyen, who was arrested on the 12th December 2002, and executed on the 2nd December 2005. The two Australians I think you are referring, Barlow and Chambers, were arrested in Malaysia on the 9th November 1983 and after numerous representations by both English and Australian governments, and the normal appeals, were finally executed on the 7th July 1986. There was one other execution in Malaysia, that was of Michael McAuliffe, who after being arrested on the 29th June 1985, was, following his appeals, executed in June 1993.

[boomerangutang]

Now, of course, tell yourself it's all fake and keep on repeating your fantasies.

Millions of people believe crop circles are made by alien life forms, and the photo of Nessie is real, and the silly video of Bigfoot is real. Indeed, they keep believing such pap, even years later, when the original pranksters (who made the videos) reveal their ruse.

People are easy to fool with videos. Are you also among that crowd?

[stephenterry]

Re SiThea01

Are you a fully fledged fool or just practicing? In previous posts I've acknowledged concerns over the contamination of the crime scene, however, my understanding is that this post relates to the handover of evidence to the defence team for review. So, when reading some of the posts I noted that a number of members were intimating or were adamant that the evidence held, and was to be handed over for review, would be tampered with or even substituted. Hence my reference to evidence management.

For a start, please refrain from name-calling. It demeans any argument you post. The reason why some TVF posters allude to evidence tampering, switching, or whatever is based on the possibility that the B2 are convenient scapegoats. Whether that's true or false is not known by anyone on here, however if the assumption is true any such 'evidence' handed over to the defence now would be false.

Edited May 4, 2015 by stephenterry

[boomerangutang]

As for many Thaivisa posters, it is clear they know little to nothing about Thailand and spend their time complaining with other unhappy people as opposed to the millions upon millions who live or flock to Thailand year after year because of all the beauty this country and its people have. If you knew anything about Miramar (an actual 3rd world country) then you would know the defendant's families realize Thailand is a much fairer place for them to be put on trial and accused of a crime.

Miramar is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to human rights and rape is not only common but common and accepted use of control by the military and police. These two defendants come from a place in Miramar that has seen some of the worst acts of violence and rape in that country.

Where the {Great Bob Almighty} is Miramar??? Perhaps you mean Myanmar? FYI the two accused come from Arakan State and much of the violence there is perpetrated by the Rohingya (ethnic Bangladeshis) who are of a different religious persuasion than the majority population who have much in common with the Thais. It's more than a coincidence that the B2 were interrogated and beaten up by a so-called translator who happened to be a Rohingya.

You must really hate the Burmese people to make such vicious comments.

Here's my personal experience re; crime in Thailand vs crime in Burma. Granted, I nor anyone else have not been to all places in the two countries. I have however visited a border town in Burma (I go bicycling/hiking there) hundreds of times, and have traveled further afield in Burma a few times. At the border town, the biggest crime event for the entire year, was a young girl was abducted and her body was found days later by the river. Bad indeed, but compare that one death for a town of about 400,000 inhabitants, with near-monthly deaths on Ko Tao for a population of several hundred. Additionally, when I can't sleep on some nights, I go out and walk in the middle of the night, in any part of town (even through slums) and never sense danger lurking. Can I say the same about a Thai city? No. It brings to mind the senseless copy-cat murder of a German man by a young Thai wielding a hoe - weeks after the tragic double murder at Ko Tao. Ok, it was an anomaly, but still, you look at the stats of violent crimes and muggins for the two countries, and Thailand doesn't come out smelling like a rose.

[GOLDBUGGY]

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ZERO proof anyone on the island had anything to do with this except the two in custody....

For the first 10 days after the crime, police claimed they had two prime suspects, one of whom was evading arrest. Chief cop claimed he had solid evidence and would be making arrests soon. CCTV footage was part of that evidence, and would still be, were it not for the self-appointment of a new head cop (who out-ranked the prior head-cop), and that's where the investigation did a 180 degree turn, and from that moment on, no evidence was sought for the original two prime suspects.

Here's some more of what JTJ would call 'ZERO proof' (actually 'evidence' would be a better word). Proof is we're hoping will be determined at the trial.

>>> CCTV footage and witness accounts of activities in the two beach bars, on that fateful night. Ooops sorry, almost forgot, the CCTV footage was not handed over by the families of the prime suspects. Oh well, guess we can't use any of that.

>>> Weaponized finger ring seen on a man (who should be a prime suspect also) which matches David's wounds. Indeed, that's why police have always stuck to their ridiculous assertion that the sharp end of the hoe caused David's wounds - because cops have been trying to divert attention from the real weapon. They've fooled no one with that conspirational ruse, except perhaps JTJ, Jdinasis, and AleG.

>>> Assertions by Sean, backed by a photo. It's no surprise to any of us seeking justice, that Sean was shunted out of the country a.s.a.p., and as quick as possible. If Sean is sought as a witness by the defense, you can bet your '64 Ford Mustang there are powerful entities who will do all they can to ensure that never happens.

You call that proof?

Did the CCTV Footage show the murder? Hell No!

At best it might have shown a guy making a pass at Hannah, and David saying something to him to get him to go away! Hell! I can't count how many times other men made passes at my Wife in a bar, and they, or I, did not kill anyone over it. Even after a little shoving. But it was also already proved anyway, and by many witnesses, that the Bar Owners son was in Bangkok at the time of the murder. Do you figure all those were bought off?

No doubt that the Police Chief on that small Island was not used to such murders or Media Attention. No doubt he said things he probably shouldn't have, and too early and did not handle this well. Many have rightly criticized that he should have shut down the Island Transportation immediately and should have done a better job of keeping the crime scene secure. This is why they brought someone in to take over the case and who out ranked him. But none of this proves these guys are innocent. It only proves he was inexperienced with these type of cases.

You figure a Finger Ring matched Davids wounds and was the cause of his demise? You have got to be kidding! Have you seen the wounds on David? Well I have seen the crime photos and although I am not an expert in Forensic, any fool can see that the open long cut to the top left side of his head is no damned Finger Ring! It matches much more closely a wound you would get from being hit hard on the head with a sharp object, like a Garden Hoe. Hannah's Crime Photo looks like she was hit a few times with a Baseball Bat or some post.

I would bet you for your Mustang but that is probably BS to. You probably already lost it on some other stupid bet you made when you were drunk.

[AleG]

I remember the first policeman stating that some people have tried to destroy evidence - and my point is that the evidence management displayed in this investigation falls far short of competent, whether or not it is accidental.

Not only are you selective but you also base your theories on memory and hearsay. Did you, in relation to the policeman's alleged statement, take contemporaneous notes at the time or is it all stored in the brain. The latter can play funny tricks on one's ability to recall you know. So they tried to destroy evidence, not destroyed evidence. If they tried, then they weren't successful, which is what the statement you mention alludes to, then I would say that the evidence management was in place and put there by competent people.

Now, if you know what is involved in evidence management, which I doubt very much you do, as you are now suggesting that the management is incompetent, whether or not it is accidental. How in the hell can it be accidental? Either the people have the skills to implement it successfully or they don't. Also, there are many people involved in the safe management of evidence, so are you saying that they're all incompetent, just a few, one or two, how many? Don't be so ambiguous in your postings or is it you just have a problem in dealing with the facts?

Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

So, no, my memory is correct. Clearly yours, isn't. From your posts, it seems to me that the initial collecting of evidence doesn't need managing properly for it to pass the competency criteria. Had the police sealed off the crime scene and not allowed all and sundry access, especially Mon, there wouldn't have been attempts to destroy evidence - that is proper evidence management.

Your memory is not as good as you think, you forgot the very important "may" that preceded the "had tried to destroy evidence". It makes not a small difference in meaning.

[AleG]

Now, of course, tell yourself it's all fake and keep on repeating your fantasies.

Millions of people believe crop circles are made by alien life forms, and the photo of Nessie is real, and the silly video of Bigfoot is real. Indeed, they keep believing such pap, even years later, when the original pranksters (who made the videos) reveal their ruse.

People are easy to fool with videos. Are you also among that crowd?

Just because you say so doesn't make the footage fake, specially in view of your demonstrable dishonesty, you know, the part you intentionally removed from my post.

Edited May 4, 2015 by AleG

[boomerangutang]

Proof is something that the prosecution will try to prove at the trial. Evidence is what is presented. What constitutes evidence in this case? It depends on the perspective of the person viewing the items and assertions. Everyone posting on this thread is subjective to some degree. I'm subjective about wanting to see truth and justice, and not allowing murderers/rapists to roam free. Others are subjective about wanting to shield certain people from any scrutiny. Once person's view is colored by his subjective lens, then each bit of data fall in to one category or another.

Thai officials, including RTP are subjective also, as is the Headman who will naturally do anything (and pay any amount) to shield his direct family members from scrutiny.

One big hope is that the judge or judges are as objective as reasonably possible, and are not unduly swayed by the people who are on the same payroll as themselves. We'll know more by October, at which time, the B2 will have been behind bars for a year.

[GOLDBUGGY]

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"If found guilty at their trial -- which is expected to start in early July -- they could face the death penalty, in a case that tarnished Thailand's image as a tourist haven."

Isn't it too much overstated?

They are facing the Death Penalty now. This is why their Lawyers are trying so hard to find a Loop Hole.

One of the main reasons why the Prosecution showed Hannah's Family evidence, or at least explained to them what they have, was to justify why they are going for the Death Penalty. This was clearly stated in that news article.

I don't think this will tarnish their image. Singapore has the Death Penalty for Drugs for many years. I remember quite a few years back when 2 Australian Men were charged for Drug Smuggling and then put to death within that week. The Australian Government was so upset as they didn't even have time for a rebuttal. The bottom line is that this did not hurt their trade our tourism.

Personally I am against Capital Punishment. But then this was not my daughter who was raped and murdered. If it were I am sure I could quite easily change my mind about this. So I guess I am neutral. .

I agree that it is most unlikely for this incident to tarnish the tourism of this country were they to be found guilty and subsequently executed. Does not seem to have affected other countries who have carried out executions. In so far as this matter is concerned, the conclusion is some time off, and we must remember that the trail has not yet begun. Even if they were adjudged guilty and a death sentence imposed, then they have avenues of appeal, which could drag on for years.

The appeal could be dismissed, a death sentence imposed or a term of life imprisonment substituted or the appeal upheld and the conviction quashed. Once all avenues of appeal have been exhausted, they also have the right to seek a royal pardon, so this matter is far from being concluded in the manner many think will occur. Each of us are entitled to our opinions but really emotions should not form the basis of those opinions. None of us can foresee the future, so why are there so many illegitimate claims being made, as the only persons who truly know what occurred on that fateful night are the defendants and, for obvious reasons, they have now withdrawn their initial confessions and are pleading not guilty.

Now, If I may, and hope you don't mind, I would like to correct the reference you made to the Australian executions, which are all drug related.. There has only been one person executed in Singapore, an Australian, Van Tuong Nguyen, who was arrested on the 12th December 2002, and executed on the 2nd December 2005. The two Australians I think you are referring, Barlow and Chambers, were arrested in Malaysia on the 9th November 1983 and after numerous representations by both English and Australian governments, and the normal appeals, were finally executed on the 7th July 1986. There was one other execution in Malaysia, that was of Michael McAuliffe, who after being arrested on the 29th June 1985, was, following his appeals, executed in June 1993.

I won't Cherry Pick with you on this and if it was 1 or 2 in Singapore, as the point I tried to make is having the death sentence in a country does not effect tourism. Which you agreed to.

You are correct about the appeal process yet to come. I am glad you raised that point as nobody else has, and certainly not me. My point, and if I recall my exact words, is that they are "Seeking the Death Penalty". But if I was a Cherry Picker, I could now say to you that you cannot Appeal a Death Sentence until it is first handed down to you. Which hasn't happened yet.

[AleG]

Proof is something that the prosecution will try to prove at the trial. Evidence is what is presented. What constitutes evidence in this case? It depends on the perspective of the person viewing the items and assertions. Everyone posting on this thread is subjective to some degree. I'm subjective about wanting to see truth and justice, and not allowing murderers/rapists to roam free. Others are subjective about wanting to shield certain people from any scrutiny. Once person's view is colored by his subjective lens, then each bit of data fall in to one category or another.

Thai officials, including RTP are subjective also, as is the Headman who will naturally do anything (and pay any amount) to shield his direct family members from scrutiny.

One big hope is that the judge or judges are as objective as reasonably possible, and are not unduly swayed by the people who are on the same payroll as themselves. We'll know more by October, at which time, the B2 will have been behind bars for a year.

You don't care about the truth, that is demonstrable, as I said.

The men you are obssessed with were cleared before the Panya was promoted, that is a fact, you on the other hand said this:

"CCTV footage was part of that evidence, and would still be, were it not for the self-appointment of a new head cop (who out-ranked the prior head-cop), and that's where the investigation did a 180 degree turn"

That is not the truth, it's in fact a lie, but still you continue to peddle it even after you had been shown, repeatedly, to be false. People that knowingly state things as true that are false are not interested in "Truth and Justice", much as you would like to paint yourself in such good light.

As for your innuendo's about me, it only serves to emphasize how desperate you are to create a fictional narrative to validate your worldview.

[boomerangutang]

Whether the alibi video is altered is secondary. The concept of a desperate man, with money getting from the island to Bangkok. in 5 hours is a stretch, but not impossible. But the question of that person's guilt doesn't hinge on that video. The primary issue is whether all the evidence which might pertain to the crime - is taken in to account. Just before the first head cop was replaced, all evidence pointing to the original two prime suspects was tossed in the trash, never to be considered again by officialdom. That's not a proper crime investigation.

Edited May 4, 2015 by boomerangutang

[AleG]

Whether the alibi video is altered is secondary. The concept of a desperate man, with money getting from the island to Bangkok. in 5 hours is a stretch, but not impossible. But the question of that person's guilt doesn't hinge on that video. The primary issue is whether all the evidence which might pertain to the crime - is taken in to account. Just before the first head cop was replaced, all evidence pointing to the original two prime suspects was tossed in the trash, never to be considered again by officialdom. That's not a proper crime investigation.

So you didn't actually saw the video, did you? Because it shows a fast forward from before the murders took place until your hate interest leaves his room.

Once more, that demonstrate how little, if at all, you care about facts; you didn't even saw it yet decided it was fake.

[boomerangutang]

Proof is something that the prosecution will try to prove at the trial. Evidence is what is presented. What constitutes evidence in this case? It depends on the perspective of the person viewing the items and assertions. Everyone posting on this thread is subjective to some degree. I'm subjective about wanting to see truth and justice, and not allowing murderers/rapists to roam free. Others are subjective about wanting to shield certain people from any scrutiny. Once person's view is colored by his subjective lens, then each bit of data fall in to one category or another.

Thai officials, including RTP are subjective also, as is the Headman who will naturally do anything (and pay any amount) to shield his direct family members from scrutiny.

One big hope is that the judge or judges are as objective as reasonably possible, and are not unduly swayed by the people who are on the same payroll as themselves. We'll know more by October, at which time, the B2 will have been behind bars for a year.

You don't care about the truth, that is demonstrable, as I said.

The men you are obssessed with were cleared before the Panya was promoted, that is a fact, you on the other hand said this:

"CCTV footage was part of that evidence, and would still be, were it not for the self-appointment of a new head cop (who out-ranked the prior head-cop), and that's where the investigation did a 180 degree turn"

That is not the truth, it's in fact a lie, but still you continue to peddle it even after you had been shown, repeatedly, to be false. People that knowingly state things as true that are false are not interested in "Truth and Justice", much as you would like to paint yourself in such good light.

As for your innuendo's about me, it only serves to emphasize how desperate you are to create a fictional narrative to validate your worldview.

I stand corrected, thanks. As I mentioned in my post prior to yours (and have mentioned in other prior posts) the investigation changed drastically JUST BEFORE the replacement head cop. There, feel better now?

[boomerangutang]

Whether the alibi video is altered is secondary. The concept of a desperate man, with money getting from the island to Bangkok. in 5 hours is a stretch, but not impossible. But the question of that person's guilt doesn't hinge on that video. The primary issue is whether all the evidence which might pertain to the crime - is taken in to account. Just before the first head cop was replaced, all evidence pointing to the original two prime suspects was tossed in the trash, never to be considered again by officialdom. That's not a proper crime investigation.

So you didn't actually saw the video, did you? Because it shows a fast forward from before the murders took place until your hate interest leaves his room.

Once more, that demonstrate how little, if at all, you care about facts; you didn't even saw it yet decided it was fake.

" it shows a fast forward from before the murders took place until your hate interest leaves his room." If that's true, then it's interesting. Where is that data from? Could the time-stamp be altered within a week's time for such an important alibi video?

Nomsod is not my 'hate interest' (what an odd glob of words). If Nomsod is the perp, then I (and millions of others) would like to see him charged. If found guilty by evidence, then he should be sentenced as harshly as the law allows.. Same for anyone else who commits a heinous crime. If the B2 are proved guilty of the crimes, I wish the same for them. I don't hate a criminal any more than I hate Vlad the Impaler. Vile criminals should be locked up for a long time. Got a problem with that?

[Si Thea01]

Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

So, no, my memory is correct. Clearly yours, isn't. From your posts, it seems to me that the initial collecting of evidence doesn't need managing properly for it to pass the competency criteria. Had the police sealed off the crime scene and not allowed all and sundry access, especially Mon, there wouldn't have been attempts to destroy evidence - that is proper evidence management.

Pure genius. Relying on hearsay that may have or may have not been interpreted correctly by a 3rd party (journalist) and with allegations that have never been tested in court of law. Do you know. for a fact, that the conversation was methodically and honestly recorded? Tell me yes and one will be able to understand your sanctimonious attitude. Tell me no and it will sustain that you are adopting a nonsensical approach by suggesting that the RTP are totally inept.

Some but not all maybe the case but like most things you do, you are again selective and fail to answer a number of matters put to you. If the Police Officer is called to court and is required to give evidence, and if those allegations are raised and tested, then if proven correct, then credence can be placed on what's been alleged and further avenues of cross examination may be available to the defence. Until then, for one to accept, as a given fact, what some one has written about someone's alleged conversation, is futile in the extreme.

You are really fixated with the crime scene aren't you. I have told you once, so once more for it to sink in, yes there are concerns and that relates to people stomping all over the place and how evidence there was collected. What more do I have to say for you to understand? Now once again, for your benefit I am talking about the evidence now held, which is far more than what was collected at the scene and people talking about it being tampered with or substituted.

Yes there was evidence collected at the scene, whether or not it was tampered with or substituted before it was assigned to evidence, I don't know, neither do you, despite what you read. There is also evidence obtained from many other avenues, and yes, I am saying that once collected and given evidence status, regardless of where and when it was collected it has been subject to evidence management since collection and to be tampered with or substituted now would involve a major conspiracy. Are you really that thick or do you have trouble acknowledging anything that is outside your realm of thought or is it just you cannot accept that the RTP may be able to do something that is beyond your capabilities of knowing or even understanding. .

Edited May 4, 2015 by Si Thea01

[boomerangutang]

re; post #235 and all its verbiage. The H's and RTP defenders will try valiantly to complicate and obfuscate issues relating to this crime. It's already been established that the police lied when they announced Hannah's phone was found near the B2's room. It's a canard. A red-herring. Let's go on.

[jdinasia]

Whether the alibi video is altered is secondary. The concept of a desperate man, with money getting from the island to Bangkok. in 5 hours is a stretch, but not impossible. But the question of that person's guilt doesn't hinge on that video. The primary issue is whether all the evidence which might pertain to the crime - is taken in to account. Just before the first head cop was replaced, all evidence pointing to the original two prime suspects was tossed in the trash, never to be considered again by officialdom. That's not a proper crime investigation.

Again, you haven't seen the exculpatory evidence.

Once a person is cleared you don't waste time and resources on them.

Your obsession is bizarre.

[GOLDBUGGY]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I remember the first policeman stating that some people have tried to destroy evidence - and my point is that the evidence management displayed in this investigation falls far short of competent, whether or not it is accidental.

Not only are you selective but you also base your theories on memory and hearsay. Did you, in relation to the policeman's alleged statement, take contemporaneous notes at the time or is it all stored in the brain. The latter can play funny tricks on one's ability to recall you know. So they tried to destroy evidence, not destroyed evidence. If they tried, then they weren't successful, which is what the statement you mention alludes to, then I would say that the evidence management was in place and put there by competent people.

Now, if you know what is involved in evidence management, which I doubt very much you do, as you are now suggesting that the management is incompetent, whether or not it is accidental. How in the hell can it be accidental? Either the people have the skills to implement it successfully or they don't. Also, there are many people involved in the safe management of evidence, so are you saying that they're all incompetent, just a few, one or two, how many? Don't be so ambiguous in your postings or is it you just have a problem in dealing with the facts?

Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

So, no, my memory is correct. Clearly yours, isn't. From your posts, it seems to me that the initial collecting of evidence doesn't need managing properly for it to pass the competency criteria. Had the police sealed off the crime scene and not allowed all and sundry access, especially Mon, there wouldn't have been attempts to destroy evidence - that is proper evidence management.

Your memory is not as good as you think, you forgot the very important "may" that preceded the "had tried to destroy evidence". It makes not a small difference in meaning.

I think the Police Officer is correct in his statement.

They knew early on that from DNA Samples collected from Hannah that the killer(s) were Asian. Since a Thai is Asian, then at that time it may have been a Thai. Who knows for sure when they discovered the missing Cell Phone? It would be considered evidence, and it is obvious that someone tried to destroy it. Or at the very least throw it away. They just just didn't know who, or 100% yet, as they didn't have the DNA Match yet.

[arfurcrown]

Must be a lot of twitching sphincters on Koh Tao now ,cos if the truth outs, ,well all that money paid and nothing to show apart from wealthy police and other officials plus people suffering from a temporary loss of memory.

I wonder who or what and why the ''the Burmese boys did it'' crowd have been cranked up into a hysterical hyper post mood ,?

[Jai Dee]

The comments in this thread are starting to get personal again.

One flame post (should have been more) has been removed.

Please be civil to each other and remember the following form the Forum Rules:

Posting Content & General Conduct

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