changing schools exact procedure?

[happysanook]

I've been invited to work at a new school. The old school is trying to keep me saying "your visa says our school, you have a contract"

What am I required to do in regards to switching over the work permit, waiver and visa for the new school?

Edited May 14, 2015 by happysanook

[lostinisaan]

Dude, you've made a commitment by signing the contract and you can't just change your visa and work permit to another school.

Then you'll have to start over again, leave the country, apply for a new provisional, the whole package.

Please be aware that they could create some problems for you.

There's another thread running and your post is the best example why schools are pissed off and the next guy after you might get a very weird contract.

I'd love to write what I really think, but that would be against all forum rules. .

Edited May 14, 2015 by lostinisaan

[LecheHombre]

Assuming that your contract and work permit continue for a few months or more at your current school, changing will be a bit of a headache. But it depends on your visa, etc.

If you're on a Non-B "work" visa, the visa is tied to your job and work permit. So if you want to break it, it would require leaving the country within 7 days. If the next school was really on the ball and had all the paperwork done, I think it might be possible to come back in on a new work visa with them. But most likely you'd have to come back in on a tourist visa and then I believe go to Bangkok to get that converted to a new Non-B.

The teacher's license waiver is also tied to the school, and it seems that the licensing office (Khurusapha) is a bit reluctant to grant waivers beyond a 2nd-3rd in many/most cases -- especially if you have changed schools. So changing schools before that waiver runs out can screw you out of a year+ of waiver time. That, in my opinion (as a long-timer), is the biggest current deterrent to job switching before completing the 2-year span with a given school.

Those two items are the main factors to consider, in my opinion. Changing jobs might reduce your number of easy/legit years of waiver to 5 instead of 6, or even 3 instead of 4. But anyone that claims they know how things going to work with licenses/waivers 3-5 years from now is forgetting that we are in Thailand. Ask 10 people how it works now, and you'll get 15 different answers. And the visa issue is a guaranteed hassle; probably relatively minor but possibly extending on up to "nightmare" depending on what kind of mood the immigration officer(s) you deal with are in.

Breaking your current contract (assuming that it has already been extended to this school year, on up to May 2016 or so) is an issue, but frankly not as much of one as it would be in a Western country (again, just in my opinion). There is massive turnover at pretty much every school, all the time. People do runners after a final payday, all the time. Schools change up the details of your job description after you signed a contract based on a verbal or written promise/description of your job duties that then becomes completely false, all the time. Schools also try to weasel out of paying the final month(s) of your contract if you "do the right thing" and give them advance notice, all the time. Maybe that is all just half-assed rationalizing to justify what boils down to a pretty unprofessional and not-cool move, but you definitely wouldn't be the first to do it.

Bottom line, I wouldn't do it unless your current school has treated you unfairly AND you were 110% positive that the working conditions at the new school were much better. Talk to (phone/Skype/email) current foreign employees there and make sure you know what you'd be landing in.

[Loaded]

Immigration may not allow you to leave the country unless you have a 'release' letter from the school that sponsored your non-imm B visa. It's not common but is possible. According to a report here, it will become more common. I know a few people who were caught out by this. They then needed to contact the school they left, without notice just after payday, to request them to write this letter and email to them. Needless to say people became very angry.

OP

Are you planning to leave because 'you've been invited' or because they pay more money? What's your opinion of schools that renege on their contractual obligations?

[thesetat2013]

Immigration may not allow you to leave the country unless you have a 'release' letter from the school that sponsored your non-imm B visa. It's not common but is possible. According to a report here, it will become more common. I know a few people who were caught out by this. They then needed to contact the school they left, without notice just after payday, to request them to write this letter and email to them. Needless to say people became very angry.

OP

Are you planning to leave because 'you've been invited' or because they pay more money? What's your opinion of schools that renege on their contractual obligations?

What a crock. Immigration will not stop him from leaving the country if he doesn't have a release letter

[lostinisaan]

Immigration may not allow you to leave the country unless you have a 'release' letter from the school that sponsored your non-imm B visa. It's not common but is possible. According to a report here, it will become more common. I know a few people who were caught out by this. They then needed to contact the school they left, without notice just after payday, to request them to write this letter and email to them. Needless to say people became very angry.

OP

Are you planning to leave because 'you've been invited' or because they pay more money? What's your opinion of schools that renege on their contractual obligations?

I've never heard of such a "release letter". Let's just use our imagination now. You're on a Non-B, ( guess that's what the OP's on) then you apply for a re entry, having all the paperwork from the "new school that invited" the guy.

Then you go to a consulate in let's say Taka Tuka Land and apply for a new visa. The old visa will become invalid and they'll issue a new one.

When I resigned my first job, I gave them enough time to replace me and they even told me that I could keep my visa for two more weeks, but cancelled my work permit on the same day, when they received my letter of resignation.

Good luck that i found that out on the same day and had to leave Thailand immediately.

The next guy who took off, an Aussie, didn't give them a chance to find replacement, which made the director so upset that he tried all to blackmail him.

He then tried many ways to make sure that he wouldn't find employment nationwide.

That was really a long time ago and the reason for many changes in the new contracts.

Of course not in favor of the next generation of employees. All I can say is, please treat people they way you'd like to be treated.

Edited May 14, 2015 by lostinisaan

[bigt3116]

Immigration may not allow you to leave the country unless you have a 'release' letter from the school that sponsored your non-imm B visa. It's not common but is possible. According to a report here, it will become more common. I know a few people who were caught out by this. They then needed to contact the school they left, without notice just after payday, to request them to write this letter and email to them. Needless to say people became very angry.

OP

Are you planning to leave because 'you've been invited' or because they pay more money? What's your opinion of schools that renege on their contractual obligations?

What a crock. Immigration will not stop him from leaving the country if he doesn't have a release letter

If he is on a valid extension of stay and tries to leave at a number of land borders, YES THEY WILL REFUSE to let you leave without a letter from your employer stating your last date of employment.

[bigt3116]

"If you're on a Non-B "work" visa, the visa is tied to your job and work permit. So if you want to break it, it would require leaving the country within 7 days. "

Utter crap, visas are not tied to an employer, extensions of stay are. You only get 7 days to leave if you apply for and pay for the extension.

[bigt3116]

The one thing that will make a huge difference is whether you are on an actual visa, or an extension of stay based on employment, they are TOTALLY different.

[LecheHombre]

{snip}

All I can say is, please treat people they way you'd like to be treated.

I agree 100%, but on the other hand I've known several people who have been screwed out of 1-2 months pay (for work they DID do) because they were nice and actually gave the contractually required amount of notice time. For schools that pull that kind of stuff ... what goes around comes around. That's one of the cases where a site that allowed "name and shame" would sure be nice...

"If you're on a Non-B "work" visa, the visa is tied to your job and work permit. So if you want to break it, it would require leaving the country within 7 days. "

Utter crap, visas are not tied to an employer, extensions of stay are. You only get 7 days to leave if you apply for and pay for the extension.

OK, that's probably the correct term. But an "extension of stay" is very frequently referred to as a "visa". Just like a Non-B is a "work visa", and a waiver is a "2 year teacher's license".

This has never happened to me personally, but everyone I've ever known that was on a "work visa" (Non-B "extension of stay", I guess) has reported that they had to leave the country within 7 days if their work permit was cancelled (ie., they were fired or the school realized they had done a runner). If that is wrong, sorry to the OP for the incorrect information. In either case, an explanation of the difference between an "actual visa" and an "extension to stay based on employment" would probably be more helpful than just saying it is utter crap... I think that we probably need to know more information from the OP (like how long he has been at his current school, expiration date of current contract, etc.) to give 100% correct advice/information. I think what I said is correct, given the most logical assumptions to fill in the unknowns of the OP's situation, but I could certainly be wrong. If so, please correct me and give the OP better info.

[Loaded]

"If you're on a Non-B "work" visa, the visa is tied to your job and work permit. So if you want to break it, it would require leaving the country within 7 days. "

Utter crap, visas are not tied to an employer, extensions of stay are. You only get 7 days to leave if you apply for and pay for the extension.

Most embassies and consulates now write the name of the sponsoring school on non-immigrant B and ED visas. The visa can only be used with the named school. IE the visa is tied to the school. In the not too distant past, it was possible, with the cooperation of the current and the new school to transfer this visa to another school. It's no longer possible in Chiang Mai and I guess other provinces as well. If there's no school name on the visa, it can be used with a different school.

[crickets]

Tell the thai teachers how u think they should teach and where they are going wrong. See how long u last.

[crickets]

Tell the thai teachers how u think they should teach and where they are going wrong. See how long u last.

[bigt3116]

"If you're on a Non-B "work" visa, the visa is tied to your job and work permit. So if you want to break it, it would require leaving the country within 7 days. "

Utter crap, visas are not tied to an employer, extensions of stay are. You only get 7 days to leave if you apply for and pay for the extension.

Most embassies and consulates now write the name of the sponsoring school on non-immigrant B and ED visas. The visa can only be used with the named school. IE the visa is tied to the school. In the not too distant past, it was possible, with the cooperation of the current and the new school to transfer this visa to another school. It's no longer possible in Chiang Mai and I guess other provinces as well. If there's no school name on the visa, it can be used with a different school.

A visa can not be cancelled, therefore it can not be tied to a school. Get the visa with the schools help, don't like the job, leave after a week. Visa is still valid. Visas are also not transferred, because they don't need to be, they are either valid or not. Endex.

[aarontendo]

Tell the thai teachers how u think they should teach and where they are going wrong. See how long u last.

Was this even part of this discussion?

[zeichen]

"A visa can not be cancelled, therefore it can not be tied to a school. Get the visa with the schools help, don't like the job, leave after a week. Visa is still valid. Visas are also not transferred, because they don't need to be, they are either valid or not. Endex"

Yeah, you win the argument over minutia which really doesn't help the OP at all.

Since the OP didn't mention if he just started or is on an extension having a debate over it is rather pointless.

There is no 7 day grace period if you are an extension and your work permit is cancelled.

You can leave the country without a letter of release. As soon as you leave your extension is cancelled unless you have a re-entry permit.

As long as you have the correct paperwork from the new school, you can fly out to any neighboring country and go to the Thai consulate and get a new visa.

Breaking a contract without notice is bad form. It is wrong and shouldn't be done. If you give them proper notice according to your contract, then you are fine.

[bigt3116]

"A visa can not be cancelled, therefore it can not be tied to a school. Get the visa with the schools help, don't like the job, leave after a week. Visa is still valid. Visas are also not transferred, because they don't need to be, they are either valid or not. Endex"

Yeah, you win the argument over minutia which really doesn't help the OP at all.

Since the OP didn't mention if he just started or is on an extension having a debate over it is rather pointless.

There is no 7 day grace period if you are an extension and your work permit is cancelled.

You can leave the country without a letter of release. As soon as you leave your extension is cancelled unless you have a re-entry permit.

As long as you have the correct paperwork from the new school, you can fly out to any neighboring country and go to the Thai consulate and get a new visa.

Breaking a contract without notice is bad form. It is wrong and shouldn't be done. If you give them proper notice according to your contract, then you are fine.

This is true if flying out, however, if you are on a valid extension of stay there are a growing number of land border crossing points that require the release letter from your ex-employer.

[Broeno]

Before somebody said "10 questions, 15 answers"

I read 1 question and something like 20 differend answers.

[ldiablo]

From my understanding of contractsn in Thailand is that unless the contract is written in Thai which most are not when it comes to foreign staff than it is not worth the paper it is written on in any court.

[lostinisaan]

From my understanding of contractsn in Thailand is that unless the contract is written in Thai which most are not when it comes to foreign staff than it is not worth the paper it is written on in any court.

"I've been invited to work at a new school. The old school is trying to keep me saying "your visa says our school, you have a contract"

What am I required to do in regards to switching over the work permit, waiver and visa for the new school? " ( The OP's post.)....

Contracts are always written in Thai, but not always in English. Maybe because it's Thailand? And if you have a valid contract, signed by all involved, it could even be in Russian, Suaheli, or others. But then it has to be translated into Thai and verified.

The way i see it is that there might be ways to keep the visa, if the new position is in the same province, but that might vary from province to province.

Does anybody on this forum have the name of the school written on his visa? I've never seen, or heard about that.

It would be nice to read true statements, not assumptions.

[usa4079]

Look in ur contract. Most say u must notify 1 month in advance if planning to leave. If urs says this then do that and the school realistically has to let u out of ur contract. If u dont notify them then it puts the school in a bit of hurt having to find a reliable teacher quickly. They could block u from going. And u cannot leave the country under a valid work permit without the school giving u a letter to say they are allowing u to leave for whatever reason. If they dont know u r changing schools, when u come back in u still have valid work permit that hasnt yet been cancelled by ur present school. They may still b able to block u from working at anoyher school. only way legally and respectfully is to notify ur present school 1 monyh in advance that u r leaving. Then they shouldnt b able to stop u. But thwy still need to cancel ur work permit before u can leave.

[aarontendo]

Look in ur contract. Most say u must notify 1 month in advance if planning to leave. If urs says this then do that and the school realistically has to let u out of ur contract. If u dont notify them then it puts the school in a bit of hurt having to find a reliable teacher quickly. They could block u from going. And u cannot leave the country under a valid work permit without the school giving u a letter to say they are allowing u to leave for whatever reason. If they dont know u r changing schools, when u come back in u still have valid work permit that hasnt yet been cancelled by ur present school. They may still b able to block u from working at anoyher school. only way legally and respectfully is to notify ur present school 1 monyh in advance that u r leaving. Then they shouldnt b able to stop u. But thwy still need to cancel ur work permit before u can leave.

Yeah, to be honest it's not "breaking" contract if you follow the provisions of the contract. This includes giving the notice as indicated in the contract. It's probably better to ride out contracts, but the whole point of that is to give enough time for the school to find an adequate replacement and to get them up to speed.

I don't know why so many posters take a high-n-mighty approach to this, for <deleted> sake schools also have a 3 month probation they wash folks out in so it's not as if they are entirely against having people come in mid-year.

[bigt3116]

Look in ur contract. Most say u must notify 1 month in advance if planning to leave. If urs says this then do that and the school realistically has to let u out of ur contract. If u dont notify them then it puts the school in a bit of hurt having to find a reliable teacher quickly. They could block u from going. And u cannot leave the country under a valid work permit without the school giving u a letter to say they are allowing u to leave for whatever reason. If they dont know u r changing schools, when u come back in u still have valid work permit that hasnt yet been cancelled by ur present school. They may still b able to block u from working at anoyher school. only way legally and respectfully is to notify ur present school 1 monyh in advance that u r leaving. Then they shouldnt b able to stop u. But thwy still need to cancel ur work permit before u can leave.

It is not having a valid work permit that will prevent you from leaving, it is having a valid extension of stay and trying to leave via a land border without a letter from your employer. If flying out, neither matters.

[Loaded]

"If you're on a Non-B "work" visa, the visa is tied to your job and work permit. So if you want to break it, it would require leaving the country within 7 days. "

Utter crap, visas are not tied to an employer, extensions of stay are. You only get 7 days to leave if you apply for and pay for the extension.

Most embassies and consulates now write the name of the sponsoring school on non-immigrant B and ED visas. The visa can only be used with the named school. IE the visa is tied to the school. In the not too distant past, it was possible, with the cooperation of the current and the new school to transfer this visa to another school. It's no longer possible in Chiang Mai and I guess other provinces as well. If there's no school name on the visa, it can be used with a different school.

A visa can not be cancelled, therefore it can not be tied to a school. Get the visa with the schools help, don't like the job, leave after a week. Visa is still valid. Visas are also not transferred, because they don't need to be, they are either valid or not. Endex.

Another school will not be able to extend the visa if it has the sponsoring school's name written on the visa stamp. It can be used at a different school until it expires but the new school will not be able to use it to apply for an extension. In the past it was possible; it's no longer possible if a school's name is written on the visa. For me, that means it's tied to the sponsoring school.

[mikecat]

Take it from me, you need a release letter from the school at both Non Kai and Savanaket border crossings if you havent cancelled your visa at your local immigration. It happened to my friend at Non Kai and to me at Savanaket. Lucky for me i had the letter two other guys in the same situation were not so lucky and had to wait around for hours waiting for their schools to fax letters. I believe it also the case at your local immigration office now as well.

If you are on your second waiver you will have a tough time getting the third if you change schools.

I read on this forum that you no longer need to leave the country to change schools but I did, so I dont know what the story there is. The only easy part was getting my work permit updated and now they give you two years.

[bigt3116]

"If you're on a Non-B "work" visa, the visa is tied to your job and work permit. So if you want to break it, it would require leaving the country within 7 days. "

Utter crap, visas are not tied to an employer, extensions of stay are. You only get 7 days to leave if you apply for and pay for the extension.

Most embassies and consulates now write the name of the sponsoring school on non-immigrant B and ED visas. The visa can only be used with the named school. IE the visa is tied to the school. In the not too distant past, it was possible, with the cooperation of the current and the new school to transfer this visa to another school. It's no longer possible in Chiang Mai and I guess other provinces as well. If there's no school name on the visa, it can be used with a different school.

A visa can not be cancelled, therefore it can not be tied to a school. Get the visa with the schools help, don't like the job, leave after a week. Visa is still valid. Visas are also not transferred, because they don't need to be, they are either valid or not. Endex.

Another school will not be able to extend the visa if it has the sponsoring school's name written on the visa stamp. It can be used at a different school until it expires but the new school will not be able to use it to apply for an extension. In the past it was possible; it's no longer possible if a school's name is written on the visa. For me, that means it's tied to the sponsoring school.

Ah, OK, that makes sense :-) Thanks.

[happysanook]

Thanks for all the answers. I'm probably more confused than when I asked the question... But thank you regardless....

The situation is this

• the school will gracefully allow me to leave. No problem there.
• I'm on Non-B with year extension
• The new school called immigration and they seem to be quite sure that it's possible to cancel my current work permit, then apply for a new work permit for the new school within 24 hours (the school is quite a big school and able to possibly pull some strings in regards to time it takes to get it processed) My main concern here is regarding the waiver... Is the waiver tied to the school? Several Filipinos at this school got there extensions and work permits no problem without even having a waiver :|

Edited May 18, 2015 by happysanook

[LecheHombre]

Waivers (the 2 year "teachers license") are tied to a school. If someone has a full 5-year teachers license, it is NOT tied to any one school, so they can switch around more easily. That could explain the Filipinos at your school.

OR, it could be that the labor office (that issues work permits) and immigration wherever you are located are willing to process work permits based on having filed for a teacher's license / waiver, instead of requiring the actual waiver/license to come back from Khurusapha. My local office was like that until recently.

[Puyai]

Immigration may not allow you to leave the country unless you have a 'release' letter from the school that sponsored your non-imm B visa. It's not common but is possible. According to a report here, it will become more common. I know a few people who were caught out by this. They then needed to contact the school they left, without notice just after payday, to request them to write this letter and email to them. Needless to say people became very angry.

OP

Are you planning to leave because 'you've been invited' or because they pay more money? What's your opinion of schools that renege on their contractual obligations?

What a crock. Immigration will not stop him from leaving the country if he doesn't have a release letter

Not a crock. It is quite possible that immigration could stop him leaving the country. I had a problem at the border in Nong Khai because I didn't cancel my visa or have a release letter. I was able to talk myself out of it. My girlfriend and young son were with me which might of helped. All depends on the immigration officer at the time.

My advice is to cancel the visa before leaving the country.

[happysanook]

Waivers (the 2 year "teachers license") are tied to a school. If someone has a full 5-year teachers license, it is NOT tied to any one school, so they can switch around more easily. That could explain the Filipinos at your school.

OR, it could be that the labor office (that issues work permits) and immigration wherever you are located are willing to process work permits based on having filed for a teacher's license / waiver, instead of requiring the actual waiver/license to come back from Khurusapha. My local office was like that until recently.

Thanks for your reply....

What I'm getting now from the new school is that because my work permit is in another district, I will have to go to Laos. I can't just cancel in one district and go to another to make another work permit. Does this make sense?

Also, they are adamant that getting a 3rd kurusapa from bkk won't be a problem :|. What do you think?

It will suck if I go to Laos, get a new non-b and come back to find I've given up my krusapa (good for another 1.5 years with current school) and will have to go back to Laos again in 3 months (meanwhile working without a work permit :|). I'm tempted to just stay at my old school, but the new school is a significantly better situation pretty much all around. Closer to the city, 100k more baht a year. Teaching one class for 15 hours instead of 15 classes for 1 hour... If I go through with it though, I want to make sure there can be a 3rd krusapa... Is this possible?