Asian nations must help save migrants at sea: US

[Neurath]

He's wasting his breath. Southeast Asian countries have yet to grow up and join humanity. They are not going to lift a finger to help these people.

Seems they want to behave like Australia.

[simple1]

yes, but the lives at stake are the lives of people who are a threat to Thai national security.

Also, the situation in Burma can be easily understood by reading the Wikipedia page about the Rohingya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_people

They are an ethnic group with different culture, different language and different religion that expands very fast due to an uncontrolled birth rate. It is understandable that Burma doesn't want to see whole regions being taken over by what effectively is a foreign nationality.

So... once they have been rescued... where to disembark them?

Interesting to see you're repeating the mime of Myanmar Buddhist nationalism, perhaps more accurately fascist ideology.

Where is the proof of rapid Rohingya population growth? It's been refuted by a number of sources, in any case there is no recent census that includes Rohingya ethnicity.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/myanmar/131011/rohingya-demographics-population-boom-myth

On the issue of national security threat posed by Rohingya, people may like to read the content below.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/96423/are-the-rohingya-involved-in-the-violence-in-thailands-deep-south/

[JDGRUEN]

As in the Mediterranean with Libyan and Syrian refugees - the countries of Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia are doing it the wrong way. They need to GO TO THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM ... the Human Traffickers and stop them.

There are known coastal areas of Myanmar and Bangladesh where these Human Traffickers operate. The BBC only in the last few days aired the details, The Traffickers use small boats go to the shore - and entice people to come -- telling total lies about the outcome of the bright future -- and charge $1,800 each ... SO this is not a case where people cannot stay and live -- they just want the big lie. Then the people are taken by the small boats to bigger boats offshore ... then taken to the coast of Thailand or Malaysia or even Indonesia. There the Traffickers demand phone numbers of relatives of the 'refugees' -- the Traffickers call the relatives and demand ransom. Some few are returned it the ransom is paid. The rest of the 'refugees' are stripped of all money and possessions... then the crew most often abandons ship leaving the people stranded. The BBC has some of the phone numbers of the Traffickers - the relatives handed the numbers to the field reporters. I would think a sting operation could be set up.

The countries of Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia just need to form a naval task force of relatively small ships -- and patrol closer in to the Myanmar and Bangladesh coasts -- stop these boats large and small -- Same as is done to counter Somali Pirates by other countries. These boats and ships should be forcefully boarded and if found to be Traffickers by evidence found on board or if the boats are holding 'refugees'. Then these Traffickers should be arrested and taken and held for trail. The boats should be used to transfer any 'refugees' back to the coasts of Myanmar and Bangladesh and dropped off with medicine and food/water supplies at some coastal village or port.

The captured boats and ships should be scuttled - sink them -- keep doing it until there are no more boats for the traffickers to use.

The entire coastal areas of Bangladesh and Myanmar should be bombarded with LEAFLET DROPS of hundreds of thousands of leaflets in all applicable languages telling the TRUTH of what is going to happen to them if they go with the Traffickers - held for ransom, robbed - some of the women likely raped, and left in a boat floating on the sea with no power - no crew - no food - no water and that the countries of Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia are just going to send them back anyway.

NONE OF THIS IS DONE NOW.... only misguided efforts to resettle people in a foreign country that they are not compatible with - at great cost to all. Misguided Compassion is almost as bad as the traffickers - allowing people to believe that if they can last it out they will be given permission to stay in another country ... Strip that dream from them and they will find a way to make a life where they originated...

These so called 'refugees' need to be educated -- you can't go there - not allowed to make a life there.

This should be done in the Mediterranean too ... The whole Continent of Africa - 30 or more countries and 'refugees' can't go there -- they just CANNOT GO THERE... I say total B.S.

Countries having no backbone are causing great economic and social problems for the PEOPLE of the receiving countries ... The politicians of those countries do not have to live the the problems that they create -- they are isolated in their walled communities using the 'refugees' for gardeners and maids.... while the producers and taxpayers pay for the lack of Backbone in their so called leaders.

Compassion is a never ending trap -- never ending -- there will always be another boat load -- there is a point when NO - no you cannot come here must be communicated - effectively as I describe above.

[boomerangutang]

The post above makes some good points. Yes, it's a many faceted problem. Problems with people and places where the trip starts. Problems with exploiters and officials in the pipeline. Problems with the transport and treatment of migrants. Problems upon arrival, usually with added extortions. Even if a migrant gets to a new place and start looking for work, more problems ensue.

However, at this time, there are several overcrowded boats floating offshore. What to do? It's not the time to 'teach people lessons' that they shouldn't do such 'n such. The time is to get water and food to the migrants on the seas - so they don't die in the next hours/days.

Concurrently, there should be dynamic action to try and stem the exodus of desperate people - as much as possible.

[2fishin2]

Rohingya use children to manipulate public opinion, same as Hamas in Gaza sector install there rockets in residential area.

beggars on streets like to show there starving kids also...

Please post some references to this. I would like to study them for accuracy, same as your comment.

[JDGRUEN]

The post above makes some good points. Yes, it's a many faceted problem. Problems with people and places where the trip starts. Problems with exploiters and officials in the pipeline. Problems with the transport and treatment of migrants. Problems upon arrival, usually with added extortions. Even if a migrant gets to a new place and start looking for work, more problems ensue.

However, at this time, there are several overcrowded boats floating offshore. What to do? It's not the time to 'teach people lessons' that they shouldn't do such 'n such. The time is to get water and food to the migrants on the seas - so they don't die in the next hours/days.

Concurrently, there should be dynamic action to try and stem the exodus of desperate people - as much as possible.

What to do ... The Thai Navy or that of Malaysia or Indonesia .. .board the boat with humanitarian aid - food - medicine - water. - medical personnel - translators - interpreters - other personnel to help ... stabilize the situation -- then tow the boats back to Bangladesh or Myanmar as the passenger load dictates... Beach the boat ... then remove all passengers and scuttle the boat - BIG HOLES so that it will not sail again - That is compassion

Give the passenger information sheets - lots of them to give to others with gruesome photos ... equip the 'refugees' with backpacks of needed survival goods - foods, medicines, even cheap mobile phones with SIM cards of their HOME country - plus a little cash -- so they can call relatives in their HOME country to come get them at whatever port they have been left... The Navy crews should take some effort to deliver the people to a reasonable place -- in their HOME country.

Much cheaper than refugee camps...

That is the answer.. this is proper compassion ... offloading them into a foreign refugee camp is misguided compassion ... End the never ending problem -- take away paradise in their minds ... Take them home - drop boxes of leaflets into the surf while off loading - let the leaflets with photos tell the story -- there is no future on the sea -- only misery and possible death... The TRAFFICKERS LIE - STEAL - RAPE - MURDER - KIDNAP - RANSOM -- there is no paradise ... make a life where you live ... They are paying 1800 USD to be tricked by the Traffickers -- good grief 1800 USD would be a good start in a small business in those two countries ...

[2fishin2]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

[JDGRUEN]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

Do you really think the Traffickers are doing it for nothing? Naivety gone wild.

You should get more educated ...

[2fishin2]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

Do you really think the Traffickers are doing it for nothing? Naivety gone wild.

You should get more educated ...

Just because you say you saw it, doesnt make it fact. No effn way those dirt poor people have access to that kind of money, just is not possible. Think about it for a moment. They come to work in Thailand for just a couple dollars a day as they have to jobs in their own country and you are telling me that these people in their own home country have $1800 US to pay for these trips and there are NO JOBS in their home country? Not no but, hell no is the amount correct.

[JDGRUEN]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

Do you really think the Traffickers are doing it for nothing? Naivety gone wild.

You should get more educated ...

Just because you say you saw it, doesnt make it fact. No effn way those dirt poor people have access to that kind of money, just is not possible. Think about it for a moment. They come to work in Thailand for just a couple dollars a day as they have to jobs in their own country and you are telling me that these people in their own home country have $1800 US to pay for these trips and there are NO JOBS in their home country? Not no but, hell no is the amount correct.

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

[JDGRUEN]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

Do you really think the Traffickers are doing it for nothing? Naivety gone wild.

You should get more educated ...

Just because you say you saw it, doesnt make it fact. No effn way those dirt poor people have access to that kind of money, just is not possible. Think about it for a moment. They come to work in Thailand for just a couple dollars a day as they have to jobs in their own country and you are telling me that these people in their own home country have $1800 US to pay for these trips and there are NO JOBS in their home country? Not no but, hell no is the amount correct.

Just because you say what you say doesn't make it anything but conjecture ... you have no basis - just opinion ... I saw and heard what the BBC reported ... and take in mind the BBC is slobbering in their compassion .... I DID NOT MISTAKE WHAT THEY SAID ... go to BBC.com and see for yourself - maybe they put the video of the report for you to see and not second guess about.

[JockPieandBeans]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

Do you really think the Traffickers are doing it for nothing? Naivety gone wild.

You should get more educated ...

Just because you say you saw it, doesnt make it fact. No effn way those dirt poor people have access to that kind of money, just is not possible. Think about it for a moment. They come to work in Thailand for just a couple dollars a day as they have to jobs in their own country and you are telling me that these people in their own home country have $1800 US to pay for these trips and there are NO JOBS in their home country? Not no but, hell no is the amount correct.

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

The going rate for those poor, unfortunate refugee's Illegal Immigrants that are crossing the med in their Tens of thousands is between $2500 - $4000 per person.

[2fishin2]

Dude chill out. You reported what you saw. Im doubting the BBC. Just because they reported it does not mean its correct. Maybe you believe them, I dont. I see these people everyday here in Thailand and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out their money situation. Even a typical Thai worker ( who makes average of 10000 baht a month) doesnt have access to that kind of money. Do a little more reading about their plight and you will understand how that monetary figure is total BS.

[JDGRUEN]

Dude chill out. You reported what you saw. Im doubting the BBC. Just because they reported it does not mean its correct. Maybe you believe them, I dont. I see these people everyday here in Thailand and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out their money situation. Even a typical Thai worker ( who makes average of 10000 baht a month) doesnt have access to that kind of money. Do a little more reading about their plight and you will understand how that monetary figure is total BS.

No you need to chill out Sir with your KNOW IT ALL ATTITUDE ...while having no evidence and not having proof but your OPINION ... you need to produce some backup for your OPINION ... I have mine - it can be found -- you can go dispute the BBC -- make a comment on their website ...

You are the one spouting total BS ...

[KarenBravo]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

Do you really think the Traffickers are doing it for nothing? Naivety gone wild.

You should get more educated ...

Just because you say you saw it, doesnt make it fact. No effn way those dirt poor people have access to that kind of money, just is not possible. Think about it for a moment. They come to work in Thailand for just a couple dollars a day as they have to jobs in their own country and you are telling me that these people in their own home country have $1800 US to pay for these trips and there are NO JOBS in their home country? Not no but, hell no is the amount correct.

You're wrong. They are not only paying to get on these boats, but, are often held for ransom once they do hit land. Whether it is as much as US$1800, I have no idea.

This is all well documented. There is a Phuket news website that broke the news of the Rohingya a couple of years ago which is not allowed to be mentioned here.

Do some reading and educate yourself.

Do you really think that the boat-owners are going to let these people use their boats for free?

That people smugglers do it from the kindness of their hearts?

[2fishin2]

Dude chill out. You reported what you saw. Im doubting the BBC. Just because they reported it does not mean its correct. Maybe you believe them, I dont. I see these people everyday here in Thailand and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out their money situation. Even a typical Thai worker ( who makes average of 10000 baht a month) doesnt have access to that kind of money. Do a little more reading about their plight and you will understand how that monetary figure is total BS.

No you need to chill out Sir with your KNOW IT ALL ATTITUDE ...while having no evidence and not having proof but your OPINION ... you need to produce some backup for your OPINION ... I have mine - it can be found -- you can go dispute the BBC -- make a comment on their website ...

You are the one spouting total BS ...

So what Im suppose to take everything a media source says at face value and believe it word for word? Not going to happen. Anyways again chill out.

[geriatrickid]

can somebody tell me why the issue with migrants in Andaman sea is the business of US?!

who the hell they think they are to trying to force independent governments to do something that is against people's interest?!

As the largest provider of funds for the UN refugee program and as a party to the 1967 Protocol on Refugees the USA has an obligation to speak out.

The US position is consistent with statements already made by other parties to that protocol. The US position is no different than that already made by many other countries. The USA is also a large funder of social development programs in the region and the burden of caring for the refugees will run up a large cost, a cost that the SE Asian countries will try and dump on the UN. The UN will then demand that the developed world pay the costs.

the fact that US pays (by freshly printed green paper) for it's own programs does not give the right to interfere in Independent nations affairs.

That's why so many countries spend billions for nuclear programs - to keep US - international bully in its borders.

all "development programs" for refugees is the initiative of the US. so why other nations should spend even one baht on them?! ridiculous

"Note the headline uses the word "must" - giving the impression that the US is telling or ordering something.

Then in the article the Americans actually use "urge"."

it's just words. but the idea is the same - to force independent governments to do what them and their people don't want to do.

You don't know your world history do you? Remember the Vietnamese boat people? There were approximately 700,000 who fled Vietnam by sea.

Do you know who took in most of those people? 3 countries accounted for the absorption of over 600,000: The USA @ 400,000+ and Australia and Canada at 100,000+ each. These 3 countries have the moral standing to speak out. They shouldered the cost and the difficulties associated with absorbing a large number of destitute refugees. It was one of the largest resettlement initiatives in recent times. Over the past 50 years, the USA has done far more for refugees on a global basis than any other country in the wold. It's easy to play the bad old USA card, however, millions of refugees are alive today and prospering because of countries like the USA.

[2fishin2]

Best read I have been able to find on the topic. http://www.pulitzer.org/files/2014/international-reporting/reuters/01reuters2014.pdf

[chuckd]

Best read I have been able to find on the topic. http://www.pulitzer.org/files/2014/international-reporting/reuters/01reuters2014.pdf

It took me 3 minutes to locate the following links which would seem to confirm the $1,800 fee per person.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/world/asia/burmese-rohingya-bangladeshi-migrants-andaman-sea.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/17/us-myanmar-exodus-specialreport-idUSBRE96G02520130717

http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com/13/07/MYANMAR-ROHINGYAS.pdf

http://www.unocha.org/aggregator/sources/70

http://www.hrw.org/news/2015/05/14/southeast-asia-end-rohingya-boat-pushbacks

[2fishin2]

How much did they originally pay? Did they know beforehand all the corruption involved? Thats my point. And its all subjective. Do you think anybody knows the true story? No.

[KarenBravo]

How much did they originally pay? Did they know beforehand all the corruption involved? Thats my point. And its all subjective. Do you think anybody knows the true story? No.

Errrrrm no. Your point was that these "poor" people couldn't afford to pay that amount of money.

Seems you were wrong, but, don't want to admit it............

[2fishin2]

You people and getting all wrapped up in having to be right and picking at words vs reading and comprehending a post. I said they dont pay $1800 to be put on these ships. I dont remember what the exact amount was along the lines of 250-300 US. To those poor people even that amount is a lot of money. It is after that happens they are tricked into all the "other" payments, ransoms, bribes etc. they never expected or knew of any of these other payouts. That is, and has been my point from the start.

[Scott]

Some off-topic and inflammatory posts removed.

Most people on boats have to pay. The amount varies, but most people sell all their possessions and property to make the journey. If they return them, they are returning to nothing. Zero.

As for the suggestion that the boats be towed back to Burma or Bangladesh, you are advocating invading another country. I think those countries might suggest. That's one way to start a military situation.

Burma isn't going to take kindly to the Thai, Malaysian or Indonesian military in their waters without permission.

[boomerangutang]

There is no way these people are paying $1800 US. That is complete BS. These people need to be rescued, the traffickers arrested and prosecuted, and boats destroyed. But, first must rescue the human beings!

Then tell the BBC reporters that they are liars ... I saw it two days ago -- all said they had to pay -- when asked about what amount they said $1800 ... Write to the BBC and tell them -- NOT ME..

Do you really think the Traffickers are doing it for nothing? Naivety gone wild.

You should get more educated ...

Just because you say you saw it, doesnt make it fact. No effn way those dirt poor people have access to that kind of money, just is not possible. Think about it for a moment. They come to work in Thailand for just a couple dollars a day as they have to jobs in their own country and you are telling me that these people in their own home country have $1800 US to pay for these trips and there are NO JOBS in their home country? Not no but, hell no is the amount correct.

Dirt poor people can come up with money sometimes - in dire situations. The boat runners and the camp controllers are all extortionists to the 10th degree. They would suck the phlegm out of a cockroach if they could sell it the fluids for 50 satang.

I have some Laotian friends who are based in Thailand, but go to their home village in Laos each year. When they came back to Thailand, two men dressed as cops cordoned them in a bus station (he could tell they weren't Thai). They extorted all the Laotians' money, every satang, even while a real cop was standing nearby, grinning.

There are several reasons why Thai authorities are only doing minimum to keep boat people from dying:

>>> It costs money to bring provisions and petrol to those boats.

>>> People may fight over the donated provisions and/or the boat could capsize if all the people gathered on one side to get items.

>>> Thinking it might encourage more migrants - if they know there's possible food & water given at sea.

>>> Figuring if one or more boatloads fail - where everyone dies - that will send a strong message to others on the mainland who are considering traveling.

I don't know if I agree with Scott's assertion that a Thai boat bringing back wanna-be migrants will be considered an 'attack' by Burma or Bangladesh.

Those source countries know what's going on, and they will know the Thais seamen aren't brandishing weapons. Though nothing is a fix-all, it would be good if Burma and Bangladesh set up their own camps for their distressed people - and try to deal with them as well as possible..

[JDGRUEN]

Some off-topic and inflammatory posts removed.

Most people on boats have to pay. The amount varies, but most people sell all their possessions and property to make the journey. If they return them, they are returning to nothing. Zero.

As for the suggestion that the boats be towed back to Burma or Bangladesh, you are advocating invading another country. I think those countries might suggest. That's one way to start a military situation.

Burma isn't going to take kindly to the Thai, Malaysian or Indonesian military in their waters without permission.

I wouldn't expect Myanmar and Bangladesh to take kindly to it ... but using the Somali Pirate situation as an example -- countries do what they have to do ... ships from many nations have and are entering and exiting territorial waters to stop the pirates ... and seem to have calmed down the situation greatly.

In my way of thinking allowing boatloads of dependent people to depart then to land on another country's shores is little different than Thailand,Malaysia or Indonesia returning them - even if it means pushing boats ashore where the people came from - after a huge dose of humanitarian treatment - as I have suggested... Not that anything constructive is going to happen in any respects

[JDGRUEN]

You people and getting all wrapped up in having to be right and picking at words vs reading and comprehending a post. I said they dont pay $1800 to be put on these ships. I dont remember what the exact amount was along the lines of 250-300 US. To those poor people even that amount is a lot of money. It is after that happens they are tricked into all the "other" payments, ransoms, bribes etc. they never expected or knew of any of these other payouts. That is, and has been my point from the start.

And - now you are definitely of the minority opinion on this topic thread ... others have countered your opinion - some with links to information ... but none the less you stick with your opinion. How nice.

[simple1]

You people and getting all wrapped up in having to be right and picking at words vs reading and comprehending a post. I said they dont pay $1800 to be put on these ships. I dont remember what the exact amount was along the lines of 250-300 US. To those poor people even that amount is a lot of money. It is after that happens they are tricked into all the "other" payments, ransoms, bribes etc. they never expected or knew of any of these other payouts. That is, and has been my point from the start.

And - now you are definitely of the minority opinion on this topic thread ... others have countered your opinion - some with links to information ... but none the less you stick with your opinion. How nice.

Do you agree / disagree with the findings in the report below...

http://www.pulitzer.org/files/2014/international-reporting/reuters/01reuters2014.pdf

[thaibeachlovers]

Why is it that although most of the so called refugees on the Mediteranean Sea and elsewhere are Muslim, no predominately Muslim country seems willing to take them? Saudi is fabulously wealthy and could easily support all the so called refugees, whether in Saudi or elsewhere, but they are nowhere to be seen on this problem. Why is it seemingly always western countries that are called on to take these cultural aliens, when most are economic migrants looking for a better life?

It is time for western countries, with the support of any country that will do so, to contract Muslim countries with large amounts of unused space to provide camps for the protection of refugees ( whatever their real classification ) and send all rescued refugees to those camps.

The result would be twofold

- genuine refugees would be protected while not overwhelming western countries with an alien culture

- economic migrants would soon stop putting their lives in the hands of criminals. That has worked for Australia.

One thing is certain, as proven by the last Labour government of Australia, if you land even one illegal immigrant on home shores, you will soon be faced with an influx of thousands ( as is happening in Italy ).

The Rohingas have little sympathy from the world's common people, as countries are being overwhelmed by Muslim illegal immigrants, whether that is fair or not.

There are some that say we have to rescue all the millions of economic migrants clamouring to reach western countries, but I wonder how much more tax they are willing to pay for that, and how many they would put up in their homes?

[thaibeachlovers]

Some off-topic and inflammatory posts removed.

Most people on boats have to pay. The amount varies, but most people sell all their possessions and property to make the journey. If they return them, they are returning to nothing. Zero.

As for the suggestion that the boats be towed back to Burma or Bangladesh, you are advocating invading another country. I think those countries might suggest. That's one way to start a military situation.

Burma isn't going to take kindly to the Thai, Malaysian or Indonesian military in their waters without permission.

There is no need for the Thai, Malaysian or Indonesian military to enter their waters without permission. They only have to tow the boats to the international border and give them just enough fuel to reach the shore.

I belive that is what Australia does, but I could be wrong there.

[thaibeachlovers]

He's wasting his breath. Southeast Asian countries have yet to grow up and join humanity. They are not going to lift a finger to help these people.

Seems they want to behave like Australia.

Australia has stopped the boats. Do you want to see them again?