People think that foreigners are not allowed to own houses here. Why?

[UncleE]

Leases are leases, they don't carry near the potential of appreciation as owning house and land. In fact the value of a lease depreciates every year, so why would anybody want to lease?

On account rental prices are generally low in Thailand compared to the economic cost for the capital used to own the house (you need to plug in at least 6%), it's smarter to rent house and land long term if you don't want to set up a company to buy.

As others pointed out, just form a company and buy the land and house, I've got lot's of em and it's really simple, you have total control, and the cost of maintaining the company paperwork (under 20K / year) is far less than property taxes in most countries. Setup cost is less than 30K so really it's very cheap to do it the right way, and then it's always yours. Just make sure you find the lawyer who sets up the company (not your GF etc.) they setup your company so you're the ONLY managing director authorized to sign papers related to bank and land transactions. Then it doesn't matter who the other two people are in your company or what percentage of stock they own. Remember not all lawyers know how to do it right and some will out and out cheat you and give somebody else in your company the power to sign.

But pay attention to the news, they're getting ready to start charging real property tax (no more of the 500 baht/year for land and house). So it might not be so good to buy in the future.

Cheers

[quandow]

Didn't realise this forum was for big mouth bitches

Boy...are you going to have a short stay on this forum.....stop being ignorant. Many of the reply posts are trying to help you understand the reality of OWNING a house here....

You say you bought and own a house in Thailand....as long as you believe that you will be happy with yourself...go for it.

Down the track...if you are still on this forum....you will most likely be yet another one asking for advice what to do when whoevers name it is in, takes it away from you......

@weegee - I "liked" your response then "UNLIKED" it just so I could "LIKE" IT AGAIN!!!

[quandow]

It's a misunderstanding about the definition of "owning a house," much like the erroneous labeling of a "retirement visa."

To all but the most pedantic twits, "owning a house" includes the property on which the building rests. That is NOT the case in Thailand.

Lord, my prayer for the day is that this topic dies here . . .

[Jeffrey346]

Correct me if I am wrong.. I recall something about foreigners who have 1 million US on deposit in a Thai bank can own 1 rai of land.

The issue is: who wants too or can afford too do this?

[Brigante7]

Or if your kids have Thai citizenship you can put the property in their name.

[rufanuf]

What to do with a house without land......I think it isn't called house it is called caravan....

you don't do anything with it, you live in it. and that's it! ownership ends for all temporary owners of anything in anywhere on this planet when they are on their way to the graveyard or crematorium.

Well said Naam. I think one of the issues for westerners looking to take control of property in Thailand is that current laws challenge western ideas of what ownership really means. After all we come into this world from dust and we will leave it just the same way, knowone can take anything with them, but most people would like to pass on the value of their perceived assets to their loved ones, and thats where the unencumbered right to own land as an asset becomes important to most people. That being said a lease can also be passed on in a will along with its inherent perceived value, its just that this doesn't "sit right" with western ideals or concepts of ownership.

Its really Thai nationalism that's the issue here, and levels of trust, the issue goes deep into Thai culture, know other country can force the Thai government to give equal rights (some might argue human rights) to foreigners if they choose otherwise. At some point "democracy" will flourish and the do gooders will get into power and Thailand will become like Europe, and everyone will have equal human rights at which point I suspect contrary to commonly held beliefs Thai land values will fall, becuase it's fact that the bulk of the population is Thai in Thailand, if they vote into law that foriegners can freely hold land they have just told the world they don't value it as much as they used too!

[houlicha]

A bit OT, but native Hawaians have tried for years to find a way to restrict land ownership there to themselves. Won't ever fly under US law, but they'll probably keep on trying.

[technologybytes]

The rules for owning a house are not straightforward, you have to lease the land first and then get a building permit from the local authority in your own name.

The point is, why bother owning a house if the land is leased. When the lease expires the owner of the land can destroy the house... what sort of ownership is that.

It's incredibly easy for foreigners in Thailand to buy a house, but forget about real ownership.

[phuketkenny]

Just bought a house in Samui. No problems at all. Set up a Thai company and register it all in that name. Easy.

Easy yes, and not to mention illegal.

That is unless the company is actually a true business (has staff, files accounts, pays taxes etc). However, if the company has been setup for the sole purpose of you circumnavigating Thailand's laws on land ownership then the practice of setting up a Thai company in this manner is illegal - no two ways about it.

And no matter what your real estate agent told you, it's illegal.

It could also be a headache if you ever have to sell the house as who wants to buy something that is illegal?

Do you have any idea who the Thai shareholders are of said company - probably a few of the girls in the real estate office, right? The cleaner perhaps? A few local motorbike taxi guys?

The same individuals names probably appear on hundreds of company shareholder lists, which will only be a matter of time before this raises the suspicions of the authorities. I believe a similar clampdown on this kind of malpractice has been and remains on going in Phuket.

Another very significant reason to be concerned about owning the house BUT NOT the land, is somethinng that seems to be happening too often not only in Phuket but other valuable beach/sea view properties as well.

The land owner, who has granted the lease, opts to take a loan/mortgage on the land, goes to the bank, takes the funds and walks. After no payments are made on the loan, the bank issues a repossession on the land, and puts it up for sale. If the lease holder can not buy the land ( of course not, which is why he holds a lease), the new owner then may find himslef being asked to vacate if the courts rule that the original lease is no longer valid. Same scenario possible if the original land owner dies, relative inherits the land and decides he wants the property, off to court and await a judgement. In both scenarios the possibilty of selling the property in dispute is now a non starter. Farang buying in Thailand? Consider any purchase as a lost investment and any pleasure gained a complete bonus. Or rent. Easier to walk away should/when things go wrong.

[SOTIRIOS]

....so many foreigners have been 'taken' by misinformation...

...the sad thing is it is no accident....

...I was told this by my wife 12 years ago.....

...one thinks that once can trust one's wife......

....I was told the same thing about....the car....the shares in a publicly traded company.....my daughters' names....

[biggles45]

"Then it doesn't matter who the other two people are in your company or what percentage of stock they own"

Regardless of their management/voting rights, other people own 51% of your company and it's assets. When you die and your will leaves your company to someone other than these shareholders, you are only bequething YOUR 49% arn't you.? Your will cannot give your heirs this 51% as YOU don't own it.

If you have several companies then surely you are willing the 51% in each company to these anonymous shareholders?

[lostoday]

OP, if a group of Thais come by in the middle of the night and tell you that you are leaving, you'll leave. I know a guy that happened to.

I know a guy in Florida and his wife and the judge told him to leave the house. I know a guy that happened to.

[lostoday]

The rules for owning a house are not straightforward, you have to lease the land first and then get a building permit from the local authority in your own name.

The point is, why bother owning a house if the land is leased. When the lease expires the owner of the land can destroy the house... what sort of ownership is that.

It's incredibly easy for foreigners in Thailand to buy a house, but forget about real ownership.

You are 70 years of age. You buy the house and your wife buys the land. 30 year lease from your wife. What is the difference between this and the buying a home with your wife in the West?

[lostoday]

"Then it doesn't matter who the other two people are in your company or what percentage of stock they own"

Regardless of their management/voting rights, other people own 51% of your company and it's assets. When you die and your will leaves your company to someone other than these shareholders, you are only bequething YOUR 49% arn't you.? Your will cannot give your heirs this 51% as YOU don't own it.

If you have several companies then surely you are willing the 51% in each company to these anonymous shareholders?

Americans can own 100%.

[kkup]

Just buy a knockdown, then she can burn it down easier. You butterfly.

[Crossy]

A troll post attempting to subvert the course of the thread has been removed.

[rodroy]

My wife owns all our property. Still trust her more than 51% biatch

Make the missus sign a legalized promissory note secured by the home & land!

She borrowed the money from you to purchase!

Gives you a leg to stand on if everythings turns pearshaped!

[snowgard]

My wife owns all our property. Still trust her more than 51% biatch

So you are holding 50% of the property and not only 49%. Good deal!!!

[Arkady]

Yes, you can legally own a structure on land that you lease through a superficies arrangement but there are limitations. One is that the Land Dept will normally only issue the title deed, if it is new structure (or a transplanted one I presume) in the case where a house number has not yet been issued. Existing structures with house numbers will probably not be considered by most Land Offices, as that involves issuing new deeds for the land and house separately. Another is that your house ownership is dependent on a secure lease on the land which might not be the case, if the land changes hands. When the lease is over, you can be required to restore the land to its original raw state, or you can, of course, just demolish the house voluntarily so as not to give any benefit to the land owner.

[TigerandDog]

I have to agree, the topic is redundant. However, everybody, and I do mean everybody, has overlooked the one aspect that DOES allow farangs to legally own land.

Any farang that is working in Thailand, has a Thai spouse or has children born in Thailand and has been living in Thailand for 5 or more years can become a Thai citizen, and in the many cases retain their citizenship from their home country. As a Thai citizen that farang CAN legally own land 100%, CAN legally set up a Thai business without the need for 51% Thai partnership, and so on. In short, AS A THAI CITIZEN YOU WILL HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME LEGAL RIGHTS AS NATIVE BORN THAIS. I have had this confirmed by a Thai legal firm and The Thai Immigration Dept. This information is also readily available on the internet. Also refer to this link: https://www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Visas-Permits/Thai-Citizenship

I'm really amazed that nobody has ever made mention of this before. Could it be that nobody has ever thought about researching what is involved in taking out Thai Citizenship? It would seem not. This would solve ALL the problems of the farangs on TV who consistently whinge and whine about paying taxes etc in in Thailand and having no rights, especially the ones with Thai wives and children born in Thailand. The answer is quite simple really, TAKE OUT THAI CITIZENSHIP, and all the issues that you all consistently complain about will go away.

Edited May 19, 2015 by TigerandDog

[snowgard]

just a small note regarding our house, we could not get a 30 year lease since they seem not to be legal between husband and wife ! SO we were told by the head of Land office, he was not willing to cooperate and mentioned it quite a few times that this lease would not hold up in court ! No 30 year leases between legally married spouses !

So yes, it is in the wife's name, do I really like that, hmm no, would also rather see a 50/50 ownership but we do not make the rules here !

You have a 50/50 ownership!!! But you can got the worth only in money. Everything what was bought after the marriage will be split 50/50 in Thailand. This signed paper at the landoffice inform you only that you cannot own this land. But you must be paid out in money!!!

Edited May 19, 2015 by snowgard

[steve73]

Not even the land is sacred..

There's loads of land around my way that gets bought up, dug up for "fill" elsewhere, and all that remains is a large pond....

eg, buy a 4 rai plot for 1million, 2 million to dig & transport the dirt (i.e. some nice wages for the contractors), and sell the dirt for around 4 million. A nice 1 million baht profit and you're left with a 12m deep pond.

Or, by leaving around 1 rai unexcavated, you can get a nice plot with a large fishing lake at zero cost...

[Crossy]

I have to agree, the topic is redundant. However, everybody, and I do mean everybody, has overlooked one aspect that DOES allow farangs to own land.

Any farang that has been living in Thailand for 5 or more years can become a Thai citizen, and in the majority of cases retain their citizenship from their home country. As a Thai citizen that farang CAN own land, CAN set up a Thai business without the need for 51% Thai partnership. In short, AS A THAI CITIZEN YOU WILL HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME LEGAL RIGHTS AS NATIVE BORN THAIS.

I'm really amazed that nobody has ever made mention of this before. Could it be that nobody has ever thought about researching what is involved in taking out Thai Citizenship. It would seem not. This would solve ALL the problems of the farangs on TV who consistently whinge and whine about the way foreigners are treated in Thailand.

Unless you have actually done this you need to do a tad more research as to exactly who can get a Thai passport, it's certainly not 'any farang'. If it were that easy there would be many of us holding dual nationality (me included).

You may also wish to investigate the waiting times.

[Mr Somtam]

If you want to really own something buy a condo or get Thai nationality and then buy a house.

My wife and me have built a house recently. Land and house all in her name. I couldn't care less. If she gets bored with me and leaves she has a nice piece of land with a house on it. Altogether worth about 1.5 mln Baht. A whopping 40,000 euros. I am not rich and would like to have half of that in my wallet right now but when you think about it rationally it's not a big deal.

[TigerandDog]

I have to agree, the topic is redundant. However, everybody, and I do mean everybody, has overlooked one aspect that DOES allow farangs to own land.

Any farang that has been living in Thailand for 5 or more years can become a Thai citizen, and in the majority of cases retain their citizenship from their home country. As a Thai citizen that farang CAN own land, CAN set up a Thai business without the need for 51% Thai partnership. In short, AS A THAI CITIZEN YOU WILL HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME LEGAL RIGHTS AS NATIVE BORN THAIS.

I'm really amazed that nobody has ever made mention of this before. Could it be that nobody has ever thought about researching what is involved in taking out Thai Citizenship. It would seem not. This would solve ALL the problems of the farangs on TV who consistently whinge and whine about the way foreigners are treated in Thailand.

Unless you have actually done this you need to do a tad more research as to exactly who can get a Thai passport, it's certainly not 'any farang'. If it were that easy there would be many of us holding dual nationality (me included).

You may also wish to investigate the waiting times.

Please read the edited post and refer to the link I've included.

[Jockey]

"Then it doesn't matter who the other two people are in your company or what percentage of stock they own"

Regardless of their management/voting rights, other people own 51% of your company and it's assets. When you die and your will leaves your company to someone other than these shareholders, you are only bequething YOUR 49% arn't you.? Your will cannot give your heirs this 51% as YOU don't own it.

If you have several companies then surely you are willing the 51% in each company to these anonymous shareholders?

Americans can own 100%.

Yes there is a US / Thailand trade agreement whereby US citizens can own 100% of a company, but this type of company, (100% US owned) can not own land.

[hugh2121]

No point technically owning the house for 30 years. At the end of the 30 year lease on the land, it reverts to the owner along with everything on it including your house which is no longer yours. May as well just lease the house and land for 30 years as the end result is the same.

[bobbymack]

just a small note regarding our house, we could not get a 30 year lease since they seem not to be legal between husband and wife ! SO we were told by the head of Land office, he was not willing to cooperate and mentioned it quite a few times that this lease would not hold up in court ! No 30 year leases between legally married spouses !

So yes, it is in the wife's name, do I really like that, hmm no, would also rather see a 50/50 ownership but we do not make the rules here !

Depends on the Land office in question as they are a law onto themselves. They seem to allow usufructs for married couples though but again depending on the land office. Many of them think that the usufruct is a way around paying the transfer taxes due on a lease or transfer into a company and so refuse to allow it. They seem to fail to understand the foreigners need for protection.

Another way is to register a private mortgage which requires a contract and a smaller tax rate of 1-2% at the land office. This way at least you will be protected form the Thai landowner selling the land without your consent or borrowing money on the land.

[AlQaholic]

I used to have the same idea, that the house was your property and the land it stood on is leased, but then someone told me it is not so simple. It seems that any non-movable item that is on the land is also considered part of the land, so the lease is actually for the land and everything on it. I think if one put an easily movable house on the land it might be considered by the land office as movable and therefore 100% your property, but the law may be a bit unclear on this part.

[AlQaholic]

Not even the land is sacred..

There's loads of land around my way that gets bought up, dug up for "fill" elsewhere, and all that remains is a large pond....

eg, buy a 4 rai plot for 1million, 2 million to dig & transport the dirt (i.e. some nice wages for the contractors), and sell the dirt for around 4 million. A nice 1 million baht profit and you're left with a 12m deep pond.

Or, by leaving around 1 rai unexcavated, you can get a nice plot with a large fishing lake at zero cost...

Maybe of topic a bit, but I just wanna know, who buys the dirt?