UN says will engage Israel on 'realistic options' for talks

[dexterm]

You're not going to change history.

Over the history, Israel did some bad stuff and the Arab and Muslim world did some bad stuff too.

For example, the Palestinians are always talking about Nakba but they never want to mention the "Jewish Nakba" where much of the Arab and Muslim world "cleansed" themselves of their Jews and stole their land and property.

What concerns me about the tone of the OP is that it sounds like the UN, as usual, is only focused on seeing Israel as the demon here and is ignoring the issues that keep Israel from wanting to make compromises.

Such things as Hamas genocidal charter, general overwhelmingly popular demand for right of return of Arabs into Israel which would mean the end of Israel, Hamas disarming, Abbas encouraging terrorists as well.

International pressure is needed on BOTH sides ... takes two to tango.

Again ... you're not going to change history.

The question is where do you go from NOW.

Realistic a great word to consider in this context.

Focusing ONLY on Israel is pretty much the opposite of realistic ... so this is another UN effort definitely doomed to FAIL.

All your points have been addressed previously in other threads. No point in rehashing them here, nor in drifting off topic in responding to the usual Zionist mythology about the history of the conflict. Another thread another time maybe.

The focus is on Israel to be realistic because Israel holds all the cards. Israel controls every aspect of Palestinian lives in Gaza and the West Bank, and is by far the superior military force.

Israel has it in its power to say tomorrow...OK 100% land swaps for areas occupied in 67 to build Israel's larger colonies, compensation plus token return of a few Palestinians..the world foots the bill gladly...East Jerusalem capital of Palestine plus respect for all sites sacred to 3 major world religions.

Bingo...the Palestinians and the whole Arab League plus Iran many times have said they would agree to that. It has almost happened twice already under Barak and Olmert.

There are huge compromises there already that the Palestinians have accepted. Israel gets to keep all of land occupied in 48. Majority of Palestinian refugees abandon their right to return. Palestinians accept they will never live again in all their villages confiscated to build settlements in West Bank after 67.

But what will probably happen is: Netanyahu's right wing government will continue its intransigence. Will probably actually do something silly which will entrench Israel further as a pariah state and be another PR disaster. And with a bit of luck they will upset USA so much, that they abstain in the Security Council when the next bid for full Palestinian statehood comes up.

Israel definitely needs some sort of jolt to bring it to its senses and the reality on the ground that 2.5 million Palestinians after 48 years of occupation in the West Bank need their civil rights.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas' so-called "genocidal charter" has long ago been abandoned.

No. It hasn't. Please stop posting false information.

Hamas' targeting of Jewish civilians is part and parcel of its mission — as set out in its governing Covenant or Charter — to "fight the Jews and kill them" and to replace Israel with an Islamic state. According to the Charter, any type of peace negotiation and diplomatic end to the conflict "stand in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=56&x_miscitem=20

No Hamas representative has ever renounced the charter; Hamas leaders not only reiterate the charter's precepts calling for an Islamic caliphate in all of Israel, but view it as the first step to worldwide Islamic rule.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=20&x_article=1618

[Ulysses G.]

There is one thing that stands out in all those Hamas lies and nonsensical spin: "cannot be changed"

No Hamas representative has ever renounced the charter;

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

Hamas' so-called "genocidal charter" has long ago been abandoned.

No. It hasn't. Please stop posting false information.

Hamas' targeting of Jewish civilians is part and parcel of its mission — as set out in its governing Covenant or Charter — to "fight the Jews and kill them" and to replace Israel with an Islamic state. According to the Charter, any type of peace negotiation and diplomatic end to the conflict "stand in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=56&x_miscitem=20

No Hamas representative has ever renounced the charter; Hamas leaders not only reiterate the charter's precepts calling for an Islamic caliphate in all of Israel, but view it as the first step to worldwide Islamic rule.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=20&x_article=1618

The Hamas Charter is an old chestnut often repeated by Israeli apologists as a deflection in order to avoid discussing peace. Hamas has never endorsed that piece of rhetoric written by an old founder since 1988 , has repeatedly offered 10-year and indefinite truces with Israel as the basis for peace negotiations and has long agreed to a two-state solution, provided Israel will do the same and accept a state of Palestine roughly within 1967 borders.

“Khaled Hroub, the Cambridge University scholar considered a world leading authority on Hamas, says this phrase [the destruction of Israel] is "never used or adopted by Hamas, even in its most radical statements". The oft-quoted "anti-Jewish" 1988 Charter was the work of "one individual and made public without appropriate Hamas consensus... The author was one of the 'old guard' "; the document is regarded as an embarrassment and never cited.”

http://johnpilger.com/articles/breaking-the-last-taboo-gaza-and-the-threat-of-world-war

Hamas drops call for destruction of Israel from manifesto

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

..and as you know Israel’s response to Hamas’s olive branch was a blockade.

Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders

Hamas leader in Gaza addressed group of European MPs who sailed to Strip to protest Israel's blockade.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

By contrast, not only does Likud’s charter of a one state solution from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River still stand, and reconfirmed by Netanyahu as recently as the 2015 election when he blurted out that there would never be a Palestinian state on his watch , Israel has actually managed to make it a reality

Israel’s Foreign Minister Lieberman and Deputy Speaker Feiglin have recommended a 3rd wave of ethnic cleansing in the occupied West Bank and Gaza.

Moshe Feiglin, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, has published a plan for the total destruction of the Palestinian people in Gaza. His detailed plan, which calls for the use of concentration camps, amounts to direct and public incitement to genocide - a punishable crime under the Geneva Convention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin

It's time we started looking towards the future, as the new UN ambassador in the OP is trying to encourage, rather than repeatedly looking to the past regurgitating old chestnuts that do nothing but obstruct peace efforts.

Edited May 20, 2015 by dexterm

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use has been removed.

[Ulysses G.]

The UN has been bought by Arab oil and Arab oil money.

Don't you ever get tired of posting (and re-posting, and re-posting) these silly conspiracy theories?

Only the lunatic fringe would deny the fact that Arab countries buy votes.

While there is little need to provide incentives for most nations to vote against Israel at the UN General Assembly, some Arab states are nevertheless bribing countries that traditionally side with the Jewish state in order to make passage of anti-Israel resolutions more one-sided.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23031/Default.aspx?article=related_stories

[Ulysses G.]

has repeatedly offered 10-year and indefinite truces with Israel as the basis for peace negotiations and has long agreed to a two-state solution, provided Israel will do the same and accept a state of Palestine roughly within 1967 borders.

You have been informed over and over again that this is a lie. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood??

[Neurath]

The UN has been bought by Arab oil and Arab oil money.

Don't you ever get tired of posting (and re-posting, and re-posting) these silly conspiracy theories?

Only the lunatic fringe would deny the fact that Arab countries buy votes.

While there is little need to provide incentives for most nations to vote against Israel at the UN General Assembly, some Arab states are nevertheless bribing countries that traditionally side with the Jewish state in order to make passage of anti-Israel resolutions more one-sided.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23031/Default.aspx?article=related_stories

Trying to outbid more like it: http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/126915/israel-in-solomon-islands

"But Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Palau, Nauru, and the Solomon Islands also enjoy generous Israeli aid from the government and from NGOs based on the belief that development is a way to cultivate rare votes of support for Israel in international forums. (For a fascinating, in-depth look into how this project works in the Solomon Islands, see here.)"

This sort of "vote buying" goes on all the time. Nothing new to see here. Israel does it, the US does it and so do Arab states. The Chinese have been making great progress in this area. They have money.

[Thorgal]

There is one thing that stands out in all those Hamas lies and nonsensical spin: "cannot be changed"

No Hamas representative has ever renounced the charter;

How could a few thousand militants with automatic weapons and home made rockets destroy the Israeli military with its thousands of state of the art tanks, aircraft, helicopters, artillery pieces and drones?

Another Israeli hoax...

Edited May 20, 2015 by Thorgal

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas drops call for destruction of Israel from manifesto

This is not the Hamas Charter which has never been renounced. It was a temporary manifesto published before an election with Fatah and the Hamas leaders immediately went back to the old rhetoric of the Hamas Charter.

AFTER Hamas purportedly gave up its genocidal goals:

2005- June [after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was started; the plan had been discussed for more than a year, and disengagement was complete in late September 2005]

Hamas would definitely not be prepared for coexistence with Israel should the IDF retreat to its 1967 borders. It can be a temporary solution, for a maximum of 5 to 10 years. But in the end Palestine must return to become Muslim, and in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth.

Hamas leader Mahmoud al-ZaharYediot Aharonot, June 24, 2005

2006- January [this was about the same time as the Manifest [supposedly] giving up the goal of destroying Israel]

Palestine means Palestine in its entirety - from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, from Ras Al-Naqura to Rafah. We cannot give up a single inch of it. Therefore, we will not recognize the Israeli enemy's

to a single inch.

Hamas leader Mahmoud ZaharAl-Manar TV, January 25, 2006

https://www.facebook.com/notes/dina-grossman/hamas-really-does-still-want-to-wipe-out-israel-and-jews-26-july-2014-new-exampl/783370505047647

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[konying]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

[dexterm]

has repeatedly offered 10-year and indefinite truces with Israel as the basis for peace negotiations and has long agreed to a two-state solution, provided Israel will do the same and accept a state of Palestine roughly within 1967 borders.

You have been informed over and over again that this is a lie. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood??

I have quoted 2 very reliable sources concerning Hamas's position with regards to a 2 state solution. I leave it to readers to judge for themselves.

Why not follow the UN Ambassador's advice in the OP?

Sit down with the PA, and make a just peace with them, all the while holding Hamas to an agreed indefinite ceasefire....provided Israel does the same with Hamas, and stops its targeted assassinations and taking potshots at Gazan farmers and fishermen. Easing the blockade would be a beneficial peace gesture too. When Gazans see the benefit of peace in the West Bank I am sure the majority there will want to follow suit. Diehard extremists can jump up and down, rant and rave calling their enemies the devil incarnate, but if the majority want a peace deal, the fanatics will be sidelined.

[konying]

has repeatedly offered 10-year and indefinite truces with Israel as the basis for peace negotiations and has long agreed to a two-state solution, provided Israel will do the same and accept a state of Palestine roughly within 1967 borders.

You have been informed over and over again that this is a lie. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood??

I have quoted 2 very reliable sources concerning Hamas's position with regards to a 2 state solution. I leave it to readers to judge for themselves.

Why not follow the UN Ambassador's advice in the OP?

Sit down with the PA, and make a just peace with them, all the while holding Hamas to an agreed indefinite ceasefire....provided Israel does the same with Hamas, and stops its targeted assassinations and taking potshots at Gazan farmers and fishermen. Easing the blockade would be a beneficial peace gesture too. When Gazans see the benefit of peace in the West Bank I am sure the majority there will want to follow suit. Diehard extremists can jump up and down, rant and rave calling their enemies the devil incarnate, but if the majority want a peace deal, the fanatics will be sidelined.

Hamas has rejected an offer to implement a five-year ceasefire in exchange for Israel's termination of the Gaza Strip blockade, a senior Hamas official said.

The proposal – which was crafted by Israeli and Palestinian officials, as well as Western middlemen such as outgoing UN special coordinator for Middle East Peace Robert Serry – would have also seen the opening of an airport and seaport in the Strip. http://rt.com/news/240209-hamas-rejects-truce-deal/

[willyumiii]

Here is a " realistic option" for israel..

Stand on your own two feet and fall on your face!

Without the support of Jewish money and influence on the US government, Israel would have been toast years ago.

Even the people of the US are finally getting fed up with Israel''s arrogance and war crimes.

WWII and the Germanys war crimes happened 70 years ago sympathy about the abuse of long dead ancestors has faded into reality.

You can't play the sympathy card forever.

It's time for Israel to grow up, be responsible for itself and act civilized.

Time to follow the rules, or parish.

[konying]

Here is a " realistic option" for israel..

Stand on your own two feet and fall on your face!

Without the support of Jewish money and influence on the US government, Israel would have been toast years ago.

Even the people of the US are finally getting fed up with Israel''s arrogance and war crimes.

WWII and the Germanys war crimes happened 70 years ago sympathy about the abuse of long dead ancestors has faded into reality.

You can't play the sympathy card forever.

It's time for Israel to grow up, be responsible for itself and act civilized.

Time to follow the rules, or parish.

Follow the rules? such as ?

No doubt its hard to comprehend, but Israel is a Jewish state, so Jewish money naturally would go to support Jewish state.

May be if Arab money went to support Arabs, there would be less problems

[dexterm]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

1...yes, make 2 separate deals. Israel has done it before with Jordan and Egypt.

2... No they haven't rejected any peace deals. They have agreed to accept the state of Israel if Israel accepts the state of Palestine within roughly the 67 borders.

3...land swaps allowing Israel to keep large settlement blocs, compensation rather than Palestinian right of return, recognizing Israel within pre 67 borders accepting the loss of Mandatory Palestinian land in 1948 war...all are huge concessions by the Palestinians.

Realistic options means: Face reality, Israelis. The game is up. The world has changed.

Option 1...Does Israel want to have a state with a Jewish character and demographic majority in a just 2 state solution?

Option 2..Does Israel want a one state solution absorbing 2.5 million Palestinians as equal citizens, who may eventually outbreed Jews, and marry Palestians from the 10 million Palestinian diaspora to come and live with them back in Israel?

Option3... Does Israel want a one state solution by creating a Jewish State of Israel through ethnically cleansing at least 2.5 million Palestinians to tent cities on the Jordanian border, incurring the wrath of world opinion, certainly at least EU sanctions which will ultimately make Israel an economic basket case, massive Jewish emigration, and an end to the Zionist dream. And still no peace deal with its neighbors.

Option 4...Continue the status quo, a managed conflict, denying 2.5 million Palestinians under occupation the right to self determination....while options1-3 fester and the population and problems grow bigger. And still no peace deal with its neighbors.

[konying]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

1...yes, make 2 separate deals. Israel has done it before with Jordan and Egypt.

2... No they haven't rejected any peace deals. They have agreed to accept the state of Israel if Israel accepts the state of Palestine within roughly the 67 borders.

3...land swaps allowing Israel to keep large settlement blocs, compensation rather than Palestinian right of return, recognizing Israel within pre 67 borders accepting the loss of Mandatory Palestinian land in 1948 war...all are huge concessions by the Palestinians.

Realistic options means: Face reality, Israelis. The game is up. The world has changed.

Option 1...Does Israel want to have a state with a Jewish character and demographic majority in a just 2 state solution?

Option 2..Does Israel want a one state solution absorbing 2.5 million Palestinians as equal citizens, who may eventually outbreed Jews, and marry Palestians from the 10 million Palestinian diaspora to come and live with them back in Israel?

Option3... Does Israel want a one state solution by creating a Jewish State of Israel through ethnically cleansing at least 2.5 million Palestinians to tent cities on the Jordanian border, incurring the wrath of world opinion, certainly at least EU sanctions which will ultimately make Israel an economic basket case, massive Jewish emigration, and an end to the Zionist dream. And still no peace deal with its neighbors.

Option 4...Continue the status quo, a managed conflict, denying 2.5 million Palestinians under occupation the right to self determination....while options1-3 fester and the population and problems grow bigger. And still no peace deal with its neighbors.

So there are 2 states of Palestine?

So you have better insider information about Hamas rejection,?

Great please post some evidence supporting your claim? but for the time being, once again for the slow ones

Proposal crafted by Israeli and Palestinian officials, as well as UN special coordinator was REJECTED by Hamas

As for the rest of of your drivel, sorry can not be bothered reading or commenting on it.

[Thorgal]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

Which neighbouring nation would make a deal with Israel who doesn't make any official declaration concerning their chemical, biological and nuclear weapons ?

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/israelprofile

Israel remains a non-peaceful partner if it doesn't comply to international laws.

Moreover, it has been recently involved in war crimes by attacks with numerous non-combating civilians on UN refugee facilities and schools.

OP is about UN political and strategic relationship with Israel. Palestine is not on topic.

[dexterm]

has repeatedly offered 10-year and indefinite truces with Israel as the basis for peace negotiations and has long agreed to a two-state solution, provided Israel will do the same and accept a state of Palestine roughly within 1967 borders.

You have been informed over and over again that this is a lie. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood??

I have quoted 2 very reliable sources concerning Hamas's position with regards to a 2 state solution. I leave it to readers to judge for themselves.

Why not follow the UN Ambassador's advice in the OP?

Sit down with the PA, and make a just peace with them, all the while holding Hamas to an agreed indefinite ceasefire....provided Israel does the same with Hamas, and stops its targeted assassinations and taking potshots at Gazan farmers and fishermen. Easing the blockade would be a beneficial peace gesture too. When Gazans see the benefit of peace in the West Bank I am sure the majority there will want to follow suit. Diehard extremists can jump up and down, rant and rave calling their enemies the devil incarnate, but if the majority want a peace deal, the fanatics will be sidelined.

Hamas has rejected an offer to implement a five-year ceasefire in exchange for Israel's termination of the Gaza Strip blockade, a senior Hamas official said.

The proposal – which was crafted by Israeli and Palestinian officials, as well as Western middlemen such as outgoing UN special coordinator for Middle East Peace Robert Serry – would have also seen the opening of an airport and seaport in the Strip. http://rt.com/news/240209-hamas-rejects-truce-deal/

The Hamas spokesman is correct: (same link)

"Deputy chairman of Hamas, Mousa Abu Marzouk, explained Wednesday the reasoning behind the rejection, saying the deal would have widened the divide between the West Bank and Gaza. Executing the proposal would allow Israel to “swallow” the West Bank with further settlements, he said in a statement on his Facebook page."

Israel is playing divide and conquer. Postpone dealing with Hamas for 5 years while they swallow up the West Bank. then come back and pick a fight with Hamas as they did last time, and destroy their infrastructure all over again.

How about a fully comprehensive peace deal for all.

or , build trust by easing the blockade in Gaza while hammering out a deal with the PA.

[Jingthing]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

Which neighbouring nation would make a deal with Israel who doesn't make any official declaration concerning their chemical, biological and nuclear weapons ?

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/israelprofile

Israel remains a non-peaceful partner if it doesn't comply to international laws.

Moreover, it has been recently involved in war crimes by attacks with numerous non-combating civilians on UN refugee facilities and schools.

OP is about UN political and strategic relationship with Israel. Palestine is not on topic.

No. There are no proven war crimes. Typical Israel demonization tactic of pushing lies as facts.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[konying]

The Hamas spokesman is correct: (same link)

"Deputy chairman of Hamas, Mousa Abu Marzouk, explained Wednesday the reasoning behind the rejection, saying the deal would have widened the divide between the West Bank and Gaza. Executing the proposal would allow Israel to [/size]“swallow” the West Bank with further settlements, he said in a statement on his Facebook page."[/size]

Israel is playing divide and conquer. Postpone dealing with Hamas for 5 years while they swallow up the West Bank. then come back and pick a fight with Hamas as they did last time, and destroy their infrastructure all over again.[/size]

How about a fully comprehensive peace deal for all.[/size]

or , build trust by easing the blockade in Gaza while hammering out a deal with the PA.[/size]

Third time, though no doubt useless

Proposal crafted by Israeli and Palestinian officials,as well as UN special coordinator

Well of course Hamas spokesman is correct, otherwise you would not be a head cheerleader for Hamas

Edited May 20, 2015 by konying

[dexterm]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

1...yes, make 2 separate deals. Israel has done it before with Jordan and Egypt.

2... No they haven't rejected any peace deals. They have agreed to accept the state of Israel if Israel accepts the state of Palestine within roughly the 67 borders.

3...land swaps allowing Israel to keep large settlement blocs, compensation rather than Palestinian right of return, recognizing Israel within pre 67 borders accepting the loss of Mandatory Palestinian land in 1948 war...all are huge concessions by the Palestinians.

Realistic options means: Face reality, Israelis. The game is up. The world has changed.

Option 1...Does Israel want to have a state with a Jewish character and demographic majority in a just 2 state solution?

Option 2..Does Israel want a one state solution absorbing 2.5 million Palestinians as equal citizens, who may eventually outbreed Jews, and marry Palestians from the 10 million Palestinian diaspora to come and live with them back in Israel?

Option3... Does Israel want a one state solution by creating a Jewish State of Israel through ethnically cleansing at least 2.5 million Palestinians to tent cities on the Jordanian border, incurring the wrath of world opinion, certainly at least EU sanctions which will ultimately make Israel an economic basket case, massive Jewish emigration, and an end to the Zionist dream. And still no peace deal with its neighbors.

Option 4...Continue the status quo, a managed conflict, denying 2.5 million Palestinians under occupation the right to self determination....while options1-3 fester and the population and problems grow bigger. And still no peace deal with its neighbors.

So there are 2 states of Palestine?

So you have better insider information about Hamas rejection,?

Great please post some evidence supporting your claim? but for the time being, once again for the slow ones

Proposal crafted by Israeli and Palestinian officials, as well as UN special coordinator was REJECTED by Hamas

As for the rest of of your drivel, sorry can not be bothered reading or commenting on it.

So there are 2 states of Palestine?

There would seem to be, and it is of Israel's making. Netanyahu will talk to the PA and Abbas in the West Bank, but wont talk to Hamas in Gaza.

Israel will never have peace until it makes its enemies its friends. Yesterday's labelled terrorist in war is next year's Prime Minister in peace. Happened many times in history.

[Ulysses G.]

has repeatedly offered 10-year and indefinite truces with Israel as the basis for peace negotiations and has long agreed to a two-state solution, provided Israel will do the same and accept a state of Palestine roughly within 1967 borders.

You have been informed over and over again that this is a lie. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood??

I have quoted 2 very reliable sources concerning Hamas's position with regards to a 2 state solution.

Maybe you need to actually read it. Hamas says nothing about a 2 state solution. They say that they would be willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. They do not promise to recognize Israel or anything but a temporary truce that could last one day. In other words, Hamas gets free land and Israel gets nothing. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances.

The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.

Hamas would definitely not be prepared for coexistence with Israel should the IDF retreat to its 1967 borders. It can be a temporary solution, for a maximum of 5 to 10 years. But in the end Palestine must return to become Muslim, and in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth.

Hamas leader Mahmoud al-ZaharYediot Aharonot, June 24, 2005

Palestine means Palestine in its entirety - from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, from Ras Al-Naqura to Rafah. We cannot give up a single inch of it. Therefore, we will not recognize the Israeli enemy's

to a single inch.

Hamas leader Mahmoud ZaharAl-Manar TV, January 25, 2006

https://www.facebook...783370505047647

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[konying]

There would seem to be, and it is of Israel's making. Netanyahu will talk to the PA and Abbas in the West Bank, but wont talk to Hamas in Gaza.

Israel will never have peace until it makes its enemies its friends. Yesterday's labelled terrorist in war is next year's Prime Minister in peace. Happened many times in history.

More drivel

from the same article....

We are paying a steep price for our stance by the continued blockade and economic pressure over the Strip, but we reject any idea that would lead to the separation of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,despite the fact that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his government are actively doing so with their policies," he wrote. http://rt.com/news/240209-hamas-rejects-truce-deal/

Edited May 20, 2015 by konying

[Thorgal]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

Which neighbouring nation would make a deal with Israel who doesn't make any official declaration concerning their chemical, biological and nuclear weapons ?

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/israelprofile

Israel remains a non-peaceful partner if it doesn't comply to international laws.

Moreover, it has been recently involved in war crimes by attacks with numerous non-combating civilians on UN refugee facilities and schools.

OP is about UN political and strategic relationship with Israel. Palestine is not on topic.

No. There are no proven war crimes. Typical Israel demonization tactic of pushing lies as facts.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

International community knows that Israel simulated for ages that the laws under convention of Geneva are only applicable for the Canton of Geneva...

Of course, I can not speak out for Micronesian citizens...

[konying]

Putting aside the usual old drivel by the same Arab & Co support group, i would love to know what those realistic options are?

1. There is no unity government, so should Israel make 2 deals?

2. Hamas in Gaza already rejected any peace deals with Israel

3. Abbas has not made any concessions and no plans to make any

So what exactly those realistic options are? for Israel to bend over and take it up the backside? or did UN have other solutions?

Which neighbouring nation would make a deal with Israel who doesn't make any official declaration concerning their chemical, biological and nuclear weapons ?

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/israelprofile

Israel remains a non-peaceful partner if it doesn't comply to international laws.

Moreover, it has been recently involved in war crimes by attacks with numerous non-combating civilians on UN refugee facilities and schools.

OP is about UN political and strategic relationship with Israel. Palestine is not on topic.

No. There are no proven war crimes. Typical Israel demonization tactic of pushing lies as facts.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

International community knows that Israel simulated for ages that the laws under convention of Geneva are only applicable for the Canton of Geneva...

Of course, I can not speak out for Micronesian citizens...

International community has half of arab world on terrorist list or watch

[dexterm]

There would seem to be, and it is of Israel's making. Netanyahu will talk to the PA and Abbas in the West Bank, but wont talk to Hamas in Gaza.

Israel will never have peace until it makes its enemies its friends. Yesterday's labelled terrorist in war is next year's Prime Minister in peace. Happened many times in history.

More drivel

from the same article....

We are paying a steep price for our stance by the continued blockade and economic pressure over the Strip, but we reject any idea that would lead to the separation of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,despite the fact that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his government are actively doing so with their policies," he wrote. http://rt.com/news/240209-hamas-rejects-truce-deal/

Well, just deal with the PA and Abbas then. Ignore Hamas. Netanyahu has done so anyway.

If Abbas is willing to discuss peace, Israel says:no sorry, we must speak with all Palestinians.

So last year, the PA had a unity government with non militant elements of Hamas, and Israel says: no sorry, we dont talk to terrorists.

I think Netanyahu needs Hamas as the bogeyman.

So how about Israel follows the advice in the OP and starts getting realistic about discussing peace. Jaw jaw with anyone that achieves progress towards peace is better than war war.

[dexterm]

has repeatedly offered 10-year and indefinite truces with Israel as the basis for peace negotiations and has long agreed to a two-state solution, provided Israel will do the same and accept a state of Palestine roughly within 1967 borders.

You have been informed over and over again that this is a lie. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood??

I have quoted 2 very reliable sources concerning Hamas's position with regards to a 2 state solution.

Maybe you need to actually read it. Hamas says nothing about a 2 state solution. They say that they would be willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. They do not promise to recognize Israel or anything but a temporary truce that could last one day. In other words, Hamas gets free land and Israel gets nothing. Hamas has NEVER agreed to a 2 state solution - under ANY circumstances.

The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.

Hamas would definitely not be prepared for coexistence with Israel should the IDF retreat to its 1967 borders. It can be a temporary solution, for a maximum of 5 to 10 years. But in the end Palestine must return to become Muslim, and in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth.

Hamas leader Mahmoud al-ZaharYediot June 24, 2005

Palestine means Palestine in its entirety - from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, from Ras Al-Naqura to Rafah. We cannot give up a single inch of it. Therefore, we will not recognize the Israeli enemy's

to a single inch.

Hamas leader Mahmoud ZaharAl-Manar TV, January 25, 2006

https://www.facebook...783370505047647

I sometimes think Israeli apologists have a problem for every solution. Don't dig around for quotes to obstruct the peace process. Look for the positive. Look to the future.

The way Israel is headed at the moment, Netanyahu's right wing government will make Mr Yediot's rhetoric and dream of 10 years ago...

"in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth.'

...come true. Israel will self destruct, because as sure as hell Hamas can't do it militarily with their homemade fireworks against the might of a nuclear power.

Be realistic, as the OP suggests.

Edited May 20, 2015 by dexterm

[konying]

There would seem to be, and it is of Israel's making. Netanyahu will talk to the PA and Abbas in the West Bank, but wont talk to Hamas in Gaza.

Israel will never have peace until it makes its enemies its friends. Yesterday's labelled terrorist in war is next year's Prime Minister in peace. Happened many times in history.

More drivel

from the same article....

We are paying a steep price for our stance by the continued blockade and economic pressure over the Strip, but we reject any idea that would lead to the separation of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,despite the fact that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his government are actively doing so with their policies," he wrote. http://rt.com/news/240209-hamas-rejects-truce-deal/

Well, just deal with the PA and Abbas then. Ignore Hamas. Netanyahu has done so anyway.

If Abbas is willing to discuss peace, Israel says:no sorry, we must speak with all Palestinians.

So last year, the PA had a unity government with non militant elements of Hamas, and Israel says: no sorry, we dont talk to terrorists.

I think Netanyahu needs Hamas as the bogeyman.

So how about Israel follows the advice in the OP and starts getting realistic about discussing peace. Jaw jaw with anyone that achieves progress towards peace is better than war war.

You tell them. no doubt with your superior knowledge and experience in and out of middle east, you know more and better than anyone else who has been involved for years without success.

How about you stop posting utter drivel and even after being proven wrong, will continue to do so and accept that Israel is not SOLELY to blame and your beloved Arabs and Hamas bear just as much responsibility if not more.

How about that for a change?

[Thorgal]

There would seem to be, and it is of Israel's making. Netanyahu will talk to the PA and Abbas in the West Bank, but wont talk to Hamas in Gaza.

Israel will never have peace until it makes its enemies its friends. Yesterday's labelled terrorist in war is next year's Prime Minister in peace. Happened many times in history.

More drivel

from the same article....

We are paying a steep price for our stance by the continued blockade and economic pressure over the Strip, but we reject any idea that would lead to the separation of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,despite the fact that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his government are actively doing so with their policies," he wrote. http://rt.com/news/240209-hamas-rejects-truce-deal/

Well, just deal with the PA and Abbas then. Ignore Hamas. Netanyahu has done so anyway.

If Abbas is willing to discuss peace, Israel says:no sorry, we must speak with all Palestinians.

So last year, the PA had a unity government with non militant elements of Hamas, and Israel says: no sorry, we dont talk to terrorists.

I think Netanyahu needs Hamas as the bogeyman.

So how about Israel follows the advice in the OP and starts getting realistic about discussing peace. Jaw jaw with anyone that achieves progress towards peace is better than war war.

You tell them. no doubt with your superior knowledge and experience in and out of middle east, you know more and better than anyone else who has been involved for years without success.

How about you stop posting utter drivel and even after being proven wrong, will continue to do so and accept that Israel is not SOLELY to blame and your beloved Arabs and Hamas bear just as much responsibility if not more.

How about that for a change?

Most people get it wrong here. Israel needs to provide political, geo-strategic and economic guarantees after their occupation into Palestine.

The Israeli's came with ship-cargo's into Palestine.

It's not the other way around.

If the UN can't get Israel out of the 'Israeli Karma' since its creation, who will..

Note : please don't refer to latest Micronesian shallow water related aquaculture investments...under a UN vote...to blame Arabs...

Edited May 20, 2015 by Thorgal