Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[ChiangMaiThai]

As for everyone who has been relying on monthly trips to the border, I have been in the same boat in the past and I have a couple comments.

1. Thaksin & Co. do not care about you and would prefer you leave. They want the kind of foreigner who gladly dishes out 10,000 baht+ a night for a hotel room, flys around the country, buys a lot of crap and then LEAVES. They don't want the people who survive on 20,000 or 30,000 baht a month. The high end tourists will spend this in a day or two.

2. Many people think that Thailand as we know it has come to an end in recent years. Things are changing, I agree. And this Thaksin idiot isn't helping anything. But I am of the opinion that if you want to stay in Thailand, there will always be a way. You have to let things pan out. A lot of the questions that are being asked now haven't even been considered by the Thais yet. It will take some time.

RE: point #1...I would say then if the Gov't doesn't want the people surviving on 15, 20, 30K per month then it's time for them to go after the marriage visa people. These requirements are the lowest and many of these folks are the true poverty packers living on spit each month. Just go thru and read a cost of living thread on TV and you will see what I mean. They should triple or quadruple those requirements to truly weed out the low lives. I will prepare my e-mails to be sent with documentation from this site on this issue to be sent on this matter the day I have to leave due to enforcement of these regulations (if that happens).

Hmmm the "marraige visa" extension requires 40k a month or 400k in the bank But really .... please send your info ... they'll need a good laugh at the office that day!

They don't want to upset all the Thai women who are married to foreigners by raising the limit. But they won't upset too many Thais by getting rid of the poverty packers.

[sriracha john]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

The way I read it is that this will only affect those who enter on VOA. Those who have O/B visas are not affected.. what does everyone else think.. am I right ?

totster

You are correct Toaster.

Yes, the crackdown on O and B non-immigrant visas is not slated to begin until November 1st.

Really!? Which bar did you hear that gem in?

It was overhead during the TRT Party political platform planning meeting....

[JimsKnight]

WOW.....what a blow from the immigration!

At least they could've warned you say 3 months before....now you folks got 3 weeks to either p-i-s-s off or arrange a legal visa!

But this is LOS, things like this happens all the time.

After 8 years here, of which I did visa runs 5 years, I have been warned by my Thai friends, Thai staff and Thai officials that this would happen one day. They always told me GET A PROPER VISA!

So I did, and thanks God (or Buddha ) that I did it in time!

This last comment is maybe a bit off topic.....

A friend of mine arrived to Pattaya 3 months ago on a tourist visa....he stayed 2 months and then extended his visa for 30 days.....after that he did a visa run to Cambodia and got a 30 days entry stamp.

When he came back to Pattaya he went to the imigration and applied for a 1 year retirement visa....after he collected his medical docs and showed his bank book with 800,000 Baht he was actually granted the 1 year visa within 20 mins!!!

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? Has anyone in Pattaya tried this?

I live in Phuket and here it is IMPOSSIBLE! You need a non immigrant O visa to get a 1 year retirement visa! That thas been the standard for years now, how come my friend can just walk in and get his 1 year visa when he only has a 30 days entry stamp??? New rules?? Or just LOS in a nutshell?? And BTW....NO he did not pay any money under the table!!

If hes over 50 and married this is possible if your under 50 and unmarried, almost impossible!

[backflip]

"It kind of seems that they don't want westerners."

Well, Ding, as a westerner, I'm sure you feel that way. I'm sure the "far easterner", and the "middle easterner" have similar cases of myopia. Nothing in the regulations target "westerners".

Thailand could turn this into a real money maker. The first visa will be priced normally. A renewal within one year would increase the visa price to, let's say, THB10K. A second renewal within a year would be THB20K.

[sriracha john]

and before we get ANOTHER five hundred posts and 40,000 views over it, my last one was a facetious one...

[ChiangMaiThai]

processing longstayers through embassies/consulates aboard will also help the thai economy, because you would need to book a plane ticket with thai airways or air asia, both thai, every 3 months ...instead of hopping on a visa run bus that probably doesn't even pay taxes for its full income and mass ships everyone to the border and back. thailand doesn't make any money from 30 day runners, in contrary, they actually face more corruption as the borders accept bribes for issuing visas, etc.

i did 30 day runs in the past, i did tourist visas as well. believe me, i know how hard it is to stay in thailand being under 50, not working for a thai company and having only offshore income. i did eventually get married, but not because of the visa. that gave me the option however to get the one-year visa, so i took it.

if for some of you guys it means not driving to the border every 30 days, but flying to malaysia every 3 months, then take it. i've done it in the past, many times and its not so bad, actually its quite fun. especially those boasting how many millions of baht they spend each year ...come on, you can't afford a plane ticket of 3,000 baht to malaysia every 3 months?

You're missing the point. The speculation is that they won't grant back to back to back tourist visas either. If they do allow that, then this whole thing just means a longer trip. But it seems that they are intent on finally weeding out these people who stay as perpetual tourists, whether it is on 30 day stamps or continuous tourist visas.

Thailand truly is amazing. One thing I still prefer about the West is attention to detail. If there was a similar change in imigration law in the US, there would be pages of FAQ's and eleborations up on a government website right away, maybe even a public service advertising campaign. The Thais just come out and make a broad statement that causes mass confusion and then retreat back to their offices.

Edited September 12, 2006 by ChiangMaiThai

[booma]

I suppose this would effect people wanting to fly into bkk, doing a tour of se asia spending 3 months of, say, six month holiday in thailand and then flying out of bkk again at the end of their hols. Is this bad for business for the new airport? I suppose they could break up the three months to save a bit at the end to get out, but I feel this would put people off a bit.

[JimsKnight]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

The way I read it is that this will only affect those who enter on VOA. Those who have O/B visas are not affected.. what does everyone else think.. am I right ?

totster

You are correct Toaster.

Yes, the crackdown on O and B non-immigrant visas is not slated to begin until November 1st.

Really!? Which bar did you hear that gem in?

It was overhead during the TRT Party political platform planning meeting....

Whats the script with that then? Can you want to elaborate a little further.

A conversation is one thing, getting it into action in LOS is quite another.

10 satang bet that non imm 'o' and 'b' will be left pretty much alone. VOA is the target.

[Tuschno]

If you are from Brazil, Peru, Chile or Republic of Korea you get 90 days just by arriving on passport.

[bluebear]

George wrote a lot of true stuff here

Well, what the hel_l! LOS makes it very easy to stay, just stick to the rules.

I had a company here and my proper work permit, and I was paying taxes. Now I am retired, and I got my proper retirement visa. Where is the problem? If anyone wants to stay here, (s)he should read the rules and decide if (s)he can accept it. If not, (s)he should stay where (s)he is. You always have the option to spend your holidays here.

Thank you for your attention,

a happy guy from Phuket, who got no visa problems.

well whoop de ######ing whoop for you!

hope when you get into trouble you dont come calling for help!

The last 3 years I have had a WP with different places, not once has it taken less than 3 months, whcih makes me liable for arrest because I am working without a WP. So, tell me what should I do, go back to my own country to wait for it to sorted out and therefore not work for 3 months+ ? Risk arrest and a fine for my work? The number of schools that rule ######s up is somewhat large, even at the biggest international schools they rarely do it within 4 weeks.

And yes I am a teacher with a legit degree.

[changchang]

No idea if this is relevant or not, but just happened to see this short item from last month :

22 August 2006

NEWS HEADLINE :. Foreign Affairs Ministry is ready to support for checking visas of people, to prevent international terrorism

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is all set to inspect the visas of travelers at the airport, aimed at preventing international terrorism.

As for the news claimed by foreign countries that Thailand is the place where international terrorists are gathering, Foreign Affairs Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon (กันตธีร์ ศุภมงคล) said that his ministry is concerned about the matter and will cooperate with other countries on exchanging related information. He also ordered international education institutes to strictly check foreign teachers’ profiles.

As for the countries that do not use visa for traveling, Mr. Kantathi said that this issue will be discussed again.

Reporter : Jiyakorn Phanikodom

http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/prev...id=254908220017

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Having been married for five years, and having been on the Non Immigrant O, I have preferred to go in and out every three months, rather than leave 400k in a Thai Bank with no interest and a constantly depreciating currency. There will no doubt be those, who don't have the 400k. It would be a big scandal internationally if they start seperating families. Then again they are so dense, that I wouldnt' be surprised it they tried, only the loss of face seems to instill any semblance of common sense, to officialdom!

Depreciating against what currency?

None at all

[suiging]

Good law, bad law, good regulation, bad regulation; all pretty much comes down to the test of the reasonable man. Is it reasonable for a country to have control of other countries nationals length of stay or not ? ###### sad for all those affected who have enjoyed a certain method of staying in a country they love, but if this method never existed, is what is left , the " O " , " A " system, reasonable ?

Try getting into Australia or the States ( legally ) ###### difficult without a shed load of cash. This will not affect 99.9% of your normal tourists who Thickskin and Company court so hard. It will affect a lot of folk who the Thai people do not want in their country and sadly some good people who do contribute to the society but who have little means of support. I would suggest in the eyes of the average man on the street in the LOS, the loss of the very few in the later case can be swallowed in order to get rid of a lot of the first order. Read the thread on the european bicker gangs on Samui and then ask yourself why this is all happening now. It appears to me the actions of these fools and of others of the same ilk who glare with out right aggression from the many " Footie " bars in jolly Patters, have nailed the good life for many on this thread.

But is it reasonable ?????

[snakestick]

High people, eye've read thru this entire thread and wanted 2 way in w/my thoughts. 1st eye will say that eye'm hear on a retirement visa sew this visa situation doesn't effect me.

1. Eye'm against this knew regulation as it effects many persons nationwide who use the system to keep there passports legal. These are folks who are trying to abide by immigration law and most of these dudes have no real alternatives. The knew stuff only will cause confusion/panic for a great many dudes and this chaos will spread to Thai airports, border crossings, consulates and embassies. bottom line hear is that this will have ripple effect on every1, not just those dudes in the situation. Their is no weigh this is a good thing as some dudes have said.

2. Eye've read posts from many dudes hear who think they are GDGs (gawd dammed geniuses) about visas and the Thai economy when most of them are at best mushrooms but more likely SAs (stupid anuses)

3. This news is knot good for farangs inn Thailand no matter there visa situation. It does knot address the real problem of illegal workers and criminals hear. Those who fall into these categories are most likely knot going to even try to keep there passports up 2 date. Eye wood like to sea more compassion four those effected. I say bee nice to these effected dudes, dudes

Edited September 12, 2006 by snakestick

[Thaddeus]

High people, eye've read thru this entire thread and wanted 2 way in w/my thoughts. 1st eye will say that eye'm hear on a retirement visa sew this visa situation doesn't effect me.

I say bee nice to these effected dudes, dudes

Singing

"Eye am 50 going on 17"

[thaihome]

....

Thailand truly is amazing. One thing I still prefer about the West is attention to detail. If there was a similar change in imigration law in the US, there would be pages of FAQ's and eleborations up on a government website right away, maybe even a public service advertising campaign. The Thais just come out and make a broad statement that causes mass confusion and then retreat back to their offices.

I guess you are unfamiliar with the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act (IMBRA) passed by congress late last year and chaos that ensued when BCIS put a hold on every single pending fiancé visa worldwide without any guidance to petitioners or embassies.

Be careful in your assumption that everything in the West is more organized.

This entire thread has been extremely entertaining, but that is all it has been worth. Nothing but a bunch of ill-informed pure speculation accompanied by idle threats to destroy the Thai economy by not ever coming here. If people honestly believe that by stopping the perpetual 30 day visa waiver entry stamp runners Thailand is in any way risking economic harm, they know absolutely nothing about the Thai economy.

But, let the thread continue…

TH

[suiging]

High people, eye've read thru this entire thread and wanted 2 way in w/my thoughts. 1st eye will say that eye'm hear on a retirement visa sew this visa situation doesn't effect me.

1. Eye'm against this knew regulation as it effects many persons nationwide who use the system to keep there passports legal. These are folks who are trying to abide by immigration law and most of these dudes have no real alternatives. The knew stuff only will cause confusion/panic for a great many dudes and this chaos will spread to Thai airports, border crossings, consulates and embassies. bottom line hear is that this will have ripple effect on every1, not just those dudes in the situation. Their is no weigh this is a good thing as some dudes have said.

2. Eye've read posts from many dudes hear who think they are GDGs (gawd dammed geniuses) about visas and the Thai economy when most of them are at best mushrooms but more likely SAs (stupid anuses)

3. This news is knot good for farangs inn Thailand no matter there visa situation. It does knot address the real problem of illegal workers and criminals hear. Those who fall into these categories are most likely knot going to even try to keep there passports up 2 date. Eye wood like to sea more compassion four those effected. I say bee nice to these effected dudes, dudes

Totally agree with most of the above. However, the real success of the policy is not the issue, the perception of Thai voters is. I went to an anti-piracy conference in Pattaya a couple of years ago and was informed by some very highly placed Thai security types that the Eastern European crime gangs in particular were on the verge of becoming uncontrolable and pressure was being placed even then on the Interior Ministry to be "seen" to be doing something about it. Add to this the simple fact that Thickskins mob have their support base in the countyside where many of their supporters claim there livelihood is at risk from " Illegals " and again, prior to the election something has to be " Seen" to be done.

Before the next election in the UK you can bet your last baht that Blair and Co will introduce stiffer polices on the floods of illegals working in the UK. The middle class will demand it, and Blair will have to be " seen " to do something or his party can pack their bags. Notice any similarity ?

[snakestick]

Thailand will lose business over this for sure. Economic growth will be lower then what it should be. This is a guarantee

[PREM-R]

After much searching I have finally found the Bangkok Post article. It is interesting that the article makes no mention of 1st October as the date of implementation but states that "the new VOA rules will be put into effect once approved by the Royal Thai Police Office" and it also makes no mention of "Permission to stay without a visa for 30 days" but concentrates solely on VOA "Visa On Arrival" which is a different thing.

Visa rules will be tightened to stop abuse

Maximum stay of 90 days for foreigners

By Chatrudee Theparat

Visa-on-arrival (VOA) regulations will be tightened for nationals of 41 countries to prevent abuse of the privilege and curb the rising number of illegal entries, according to the Immigration Police Bureau (IPB). Foreign nationals from those countries, including the US, China and India, will be able to stay longer but with fewer chances of renewing the VOA.

IPB commissioner Suwat Tumrongsiskul said nationals from those specific countries are currently allowed to remain in Thailand for 15 days maximum after the VOA is granted. The VOA is normally renewable once.

However, some foreigners including tourists ''tiptoe around the law'' by resorting to so-called visa runs to extend their stay. Most take a bus to a border, check out of the country and then return the same day to have the VOA renewed.

They repeat the practice as many times as they wish, affording them almost unlimited stay in the country. The policy is largely intended to serve tourism.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the change of the VOA rules is in order.

In future, foreigners from those 41 countries will be able to stay in the country for 30 days from the first VOA stamp, which will be renewable twice at most, each time for a maximum of 30 days. In other words, a foreigner will be permitted to remain in Thailand for no longer than 90 days in total after three VOA stamps.

The commissioner said the current system is prone to abuse as many foreign nationals make numerous visa runs so they can stay on long term to do business. In some cases, they have gone unregulated, causing social problems.

Official figures showed that about 400,000 Chinese nationals were granted a VOA last year, and 18,000 of them have stayed behind.

Around 200,000 Indians made VOA visits last year and it was found that 16,000 of them have not left.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the new VOA rules will be put into effect once approved by the Royal Thai Police Office.

He said more information technology will be employed in the blacklisting system. The IT-operated immigration clearance system is now in use at 15 out of 55 checkpoints nationwide to check in tourists and screen out undesirable individuals. The technology lets the bureau enlarge its database of foreign visitors to identify those on the blacklist and expel them.

Pol Col Ittipol Ittisarnronnachai, head of the Pattaya immigration centre, said its IT-operated database is shared by many hotels and resorts in Pattaya to help track down blacklisted people. The technology has been credited with weakening the local mafia network.

The Betong immigration centre in Yala is also using the system to trace people of dual nationality, some of whom are believed to be behind the southern strife.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said more authority to issue visas will be delegated to regional IPB offices.

At present, IPB chief inspectors are authorised to grant visas, and in future their deputies will also be able to approve visa requests

Bangkok Post

[Nam Kao]

There is going to be alot of lonely tiraks

[Soju]

A handful of friends and I are in the same boat as you guys. We visit Thailand much more than 3 times a year and stay for a week at a time and average at least 200K BHT per visit ... we can afford it. Too bad this had to happen but we'll abid by the decision of the country. We talked about visiting other ASEAN countries and I guess now we'll be actually visiting instead of talking about those visits. Good luck to LOS on their decision.

If you spend 200k per visit, then I'm sure the 1000 baht fee for a tourist visa before you come will be no problem.

For a lot of people, it's not the cost of the visa but the hassle. People want the freedom to travel wherever and whenever they want. If someone decides today that he wants to travel tomorrow to Thailand, he can. Under the new rules, he might first have to send his passport to the Thai consulate to get a visa first. He may not have enough time to do this, or he may have no idea how to do it, or it might just be too much hassle and he'll decide to go elsewhere where there aren't as many hassles. I'd love to visit China more often, but it's a hassle because I have to get a visa first before I go. I did it once and that was enough for me. If they had a VOA policy I'd probably go visit them several times a year. The same with Vietnam. Been there once several years ago after having to get my visa in advance. I don't know if they still have the same policy or not, but I haven't been back due to the hassle. If my wife or a friend came to me and said, "hey, I've never been to Vietnam/China, let's go sometime", then I'd probably go to the hassle of getting the visa to go with them. If not, I'm just as happy to visit other countries that don't require a visa or give a VOA.

For people who only take one vacation a year, they typically plan the trip well in advance and don't have a problem sending their passport in to get a visa stamp. For others, we travel very often, some of us travel once a month, or even once every one or two weeks. Many/most of our trips are spur of the moment trips. We don't plan ahead enough to worry about getting a visa. I've done a few trips to Thailand where a situation, or a cheap ticket became available, and I made a decision in the afternoon to fly out that evening. This would be impossible under the new scenario as it's being interpreted by some.

The people who really want to go to Thailand and for which there is no equal alternative, they will go through the hassle and minor expense of getting the visa. For those who can't be bothered and have other alternatives, they will scratch Thailand off their list.

[Gumballl]

Instead of visa, bring a mastercard or gringo express when you enter LOS.

Ok... good, i got your attention.... for those of you griping over the new regs, please read the other sane posts. Get a real visa. Those of you who enter LOS without a visa (tourist, O, B, etc) get a stamp in the passport... this stamp is a VOA (a visa-on-arrival).

Want to stay in LOS for a year... get 4 multiple-entry tourist visas... duh!!!

[suiging]

There is going to be alot of lonely tiraks

And some pretty unhappy Bobbies in the UK as they contemplate the return of some of their long lost hooligan friends.

[llso]

Was thinking about this and was wondering will the real enforcement of this rule be at the land border crossings, Aranya prathet ,Malaysia and Mae Sai.

If coming through immigration at the airport eveyone is coming from outside the country, just a thought.

LL

[Arsenal]

....

Thailand truly is amazing. One thing I still prefer about the West is attention to detail. If there was a similar change in imigration law in the US, there would be pages of FAQ's and eleborations up on a government website right away, maybe even a public service advertising campaign. The Thais just come out and make a broad statement that causes mass confusion and then retreat back to their offices.

I guess you are unfamiliar with the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act (IMBRA) passed by congress late last year and chaos that ensued when BCIS put a hold on every single pending fiancé visa worldwide without any guidance to petitioners or embassies.

Be careful in your assumption that everything in the West is more organized.

This entire thread has been extremely entertaining, but that is all it has been worth. Nothing but a bunch of ill-informed pure speculation accompanied by idle threats to destroy the Thai economy by not ever coming here. If people honestly believe that by stopping the perpetual 30 day visa waiver entry stamp runners Thailand is in any way risking economic harm, they know absolutely nothing about the Thai economy.

But, let the thread continue…

TH

I entirely agree.The new regulations seem specifically designed to crack down on those who abuse the spirit of the generous Thai immigration laws.Those who have a legitimate reason to be here, including retirees, can obtain one year visas (with work permit of course if applicable).I think the new regulations will also serve to reduce the numbers of low grade farang, yobs and criminal elements that have spoilt places like Pattaya.Though the thread does not reflect this (not to hard to figure out why) I think most farang would very much welcome the new regulations.

[Mobi]

After much searching I have finally found the Bangkok Post article. It is interesting that the article makes no mention of 1st October as the date of implementation

Well spotted. I read the article many times and didn't notice the absence of a date.

It's interesting that there appears to be nothing in The Nation about this story, and as yet, not follow up in the Post, except a letter in today's postbag.

I'm surprised at the Nation - they usually make a big thing about stories like this.

Maybe some hope after all?

I have no personal stake in this issue, but I do feel for all those who are effected. For some there will be some very traumatic times ahead.

I have absolutely no time for the "I'm all right Jack" brigade.

There but for the grace....

[PREM-R]

Instead of visa, bring a mastercard or gringo express when you enter LOS.

Ok... good, i got your attention.... for those of you griping over the new regs, please read the other sane posts. Get a real visa. Those of you who enter LOS without a visa (tourist, O, B, etc) get a stamp in the passport... this stamp is a VOA (a visa-on-arrival).

Want to stay in LOS for a year... get 4 multiple-entry tourist visas... duh!!!

No it is not!!! The stamp you get to enter thailand WITHOUT a visa is just a permission to stay 30 days stamp. The Visa on Arrival (VOA) is a completely different thing and is only available at a limited number of entry points into Thailand.

[p_brownstone]

Both the Immigration Act and 'transport law' provides that the airline has financial responsibility {not just return to origin} if entry is 'reasonably' refused. The present confusion suggests that there is not a workable structure in place for that. Without it any 'add up the days over the last year' technique would be, at best problematic. No carrier is going to expose themselves to such costs unless the authorities provide them with a precise managable framework within the constraints of check-in.

The Commissioner does seem to speak first and then expect his team to 'make it so'. However, in this case, unlike exit, there has to be agreement with the carriers about changes which could cost them money, unless, of course, the government agrees to indemnify them.

/edit PS added//

The Carriers have a simple way of avoiding any financial responsibility.

They will simply check that every passenger going to Thailand has either a Visa or, if the Passenger expects to receive a VOA, he already has a valid return ticket.

Patrick

[yankeechief]

What about the retired US military who do not meet the monetary requirement for a retirement visa and have 12 months of back to back visas? Will they say sorry you have too many stamps at the end of the month you must leave and oh by the way, you will lose your deposit on your apartment.

How much is your military pension? If it is under 800K per annum, I suppose your only option is go back to the US and save the money to make up the difference for the Thai bank account. Then you can come to Thailand. Just checking to make sure you understand the financial requirements ... if you have a pension, you might not be far off qualifying.

I was ok until the baht went below 40 to the dollar. AS far as going back to the USA...go back to what? I have no living family any longer and sold everything off before I left. The Philippines is looking good.

[richard10365]

I do see a lot of people offering advise to people with a tourist visa. They say get a real visa. As far as I know it, a tourist visa is a real visa.

Presently, border runs are legal. Thailand has decided to change the rules. Thats all.

Imagine what would happen if they told farangs with a non-immigrit visa that 90 day reporting was out the window as well as annual extensions to their visa. Now have to leave the country to get a new visa. Then you non-immigrit people would be crying too.

So have a little compassion for those who have been legally living here on a tourist visa. This was not really expected. You never know, non-immigrit visa holders could find themselves in a similiar situation if someone in Bangkok wants to change the rules.

Then, while the non-immigrit visa holders are crying at immigration, the ones with a tourist visa will be saying som nam nah.

Edited September 12, 2006 by richard10365