Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[keekwai]

From the gazette

On-arrival visas: 90 days and you’re out!

PHUKET: Phuket’s Immigration Chief has confirmed that Thailand will crack down on foreigners working illegally in the country by ending its policy of issuing an unlimited number of consecutive “visas on arrival” – tourist visas that allow the holder to stay a maximum of 15 or 30 days.

The crackdown is intended to stop foreigners – typically bar owners and other small businessmen without work permits – from using the visas to stay in the country indefinitely while working illegally.

Pol Col Bunphot Kongkrachan, Acting Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Office, told the Gazette that, from October 1, onward Immigration checkpoints around the country will limit to three the number of consecutive visas on arrival they will grant a single visitor.

After the third consecutive visa on arrival has expired, the passport holder must leave the country and wait 90 days before being allowed back into Thailand on the same type of visa.

The move effectively limits the length of stay for those entering the country using this visa class to 45 or 90 days.

The 41 countries whose citizens qualify for visas on arrival include Thailand’s top sources of tourists, including almost all Western European countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, Singapore and many more.

Col Bunphot said that all Immigration chiefs nationwide have been ordered to attend a meeting at Immigration headquarters on September 15, during which the new stricter regulations will be explained in detail.

“I will make a more detailed statement about the new situation within a week of returning from the meeting,” he said.

Suwalai Pinpradab, Director of Tourism Authority of Thailand’s South Region 4 Office in Phuket, downplayed the potential impact of the new rule on Phuket’s all-important tourism industry.

“ I don’t think it will affect tourism revenue in Phuket very much because foreign businessman holding work permits will still be able to work. The only ones who will be affected will be people who are working illegally and prolonging their stays by making visa run after visa run,” she said.

“My concern is about the coming high season. I sympathize with Immigration, which has too few officers. I am afraid that they will be swamped with work and that there will be a slowdown in service [at Immigration checkpoints],” she said.

Executive Visa Run conducts visa runs to Ranong and recently started a service to Penang in Malaysia. A representative there, who requested anonymity, told the Gazette that word of the new regulations had created a great deal of confusion.

“Immigration here in Phuket doesn’t know what going on because they’ve not received any guidelines yet from Bangkok … Yesterday when we made inquiries, nobody there could tell us anything,” he said.

When asked if there were a lot of people making “visa hops” to get new visas on arrival, he said, “Oh, there’s a lot. Really. It’s unbelievable, the amount.”

He added, “I think it will have a huge impact. You listen to all this about how they only want the rich people to stay here. There are a lot of people who stay here on low incomes – and they cause no problems, they just get on with their lives,” he said.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

17:42 local time (GMT +7)

I'm sorry to say this for the umpteenth time, but as I am someone qualified to comment on this...

VISA ON ARRIVAL DOES NOT APPLY TO CITIZENS OF THE 41 COUNTRIES MENTIONED - LEAVE TO REMAIN DOES!!!

From an immigration point of view, Visa on Arrival is normally recommended for people that would normally be automatically accepted for a visa application in their home country. They can bring the relevant documents to their destination country, and when passing through immigration, ask for a Visa on Arrival.

They will then be taken for a brief interview, and, as long as they posess adequate documentation, be issued with the required visa.

A good example of this is a student from Venezuela who wants to study English in the UK. Venezuelans can enter the UK on a normal Leave to Remain anyway. The student lives nowhere near the UK embassy in Venezuela, and will cost him/her a lot of money to visit. All they have to do, is fly to the UK, present documentation to immigration, and ask a Visa on Arrival - basically asking UK immigration to do what the UK consulate in Caracas would have done...

Now Visa on Arrival is only worth risking if it's a black and white case - otherwise, you may well be turned away...

So, do you now understand the difference between Visa on Arrival and Remain to Leave?

I haven't once met anyone that has a VOA (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but 100% of people that enter the Kingdom without a visa, enter on a 30 day Leave to Remain. That is the crux. Nobody has to flee Thailand. It will not affect the economy. It will neither affect Khao San hippies, nor Pattaya cruisers. It will merely affect people that can't remember to leave the Kingdom to pick up an O/B/Tourist/Investment etc Visa every 90 days...

simple eh?

Jez

Right ! .. I understood all that from Post 1. ... so can we close this thread now? Its all perfectly clear. Anyone who posts after this is as thick as two planks of wood.

THE END

[george]

Here is the full regulation from Thai Immigration,

valid from Oct 1, 2006:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83253

[bkkmadness]

Anyone who posts after this is as thick as two planks of wood.

Did you hear that George?

[sriracha john]

Oh Lordy......

[george]

Anyone who posts after this is as thick as two planks of wood.

Did you hear that George?

[jdinasia]

looks like KeeKwai's signature got spanked ... he's a bit bitter

[keekwai]

Anyone who posts after this is as thick as two planks of wood.

Did you hear that George?

It was just an attempt at humour .. you'd have more success at stopping a runaway train than this panicked thread.

P.S bkkmadness .. how come you can get away with flogging your site in your signature but they deleted mine? Is there some sort of "clique" somewhere? .. where do I join? lol

Edited September 14, 2006 by keekwai

[Hermano Lobo]

This has been copied from the entry page of the Thai Consulate in Hull,UK.

URGENT

Major changes to visas with effect from 01 October 2006

Border runs to be stopped

Investment visa to cease

These statements appear unequivocal !

[oilysang]

This has been copied from the entry page of the Thai Consulate in Hull,UK.

URGENT

Major changes to visas with effect from 01 October 2006

Border runs to be stopped

Investment visa to cease

These statements appear unequivocal !

Come on, plese dun panic, They just wanna see our reaction.

[britainmal]

You will have to this from October 1, 2006- The visa runs will not end, but you can only do three for every six months. This is what you have to do: 3 visa runs and go to the Thai Consulate in either Laos, Cambodia, or Malaysia and apply for a tourist visa which gives you two months and one month extension at the immigration office. This will be the new pattern for all you visa runners. You are going to have to spend more money that is all. I wish the Thai Government did not enact this stupid anti-farang regulation.

Investment visas will cease?- I guess Thailand is so rich that it no longer needs foreign investment.

[thohts]

You will have to this from October 1, 2006- The visa runs will not end, but you can only do three for every six months. This is what you have to do: 3 visa runs and go to the Thai Consulate in either Laos, Cambodia, or Malaysia and apply for a tourist visa which gives you two months and one month extension at the immigration office. This will be the new pattern for all you visa runners. You are going to have to spend more money that is all. I wish the Thai Government did not enact this stupid anti-farang regulation.

Investment visas will cease?- I guess Thailand is so rich that it no longer needs foreign investment.

If the purpose is to stop the 'illegal workers', do you really think that they will be dishing out tourist visas from neighboring countries for people who have been here "long enough already"?

[lukamar]

You will have to this from October 1, 2006- The visa runs will not end, but you can only do three for every six months. This is what you have to do: 3 visa runs and go to the Thai Consulate in either Laos, Cambodia, or Malaysia and apply for a tourist visa which gives you two months and one month extension at the immigration office. This will be the new pattern for all you visa runners. You are going to have to spend more money that is all. I wish the Thai Government did not enact this stupid anti-farang regulation.

If the purpose is to stop the 'illegal workers', do you really think that they will be dishing out tourist visas from neighboring countries for people who have been here "long enough already"?

It's going to be much more inconvenient to live in LOS without the proper paperwork that's all. The writing has been on the wall for some time that this may happen, it shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone that's been using this loophole to live in Thailand full time.

They also made some interesting changes to the Married visa and closed the investment visa as well. I think this is just to stop a rush to buy a condo in the next couple of weeks and skirt the law that way or to run off and marry someone on the spur of the moment to get a visa that way.

They really do need some kind of long term visa for those that cannot qualify for the ones they have now, as long as they can show that they can support themselves via valid income from outside the country maybe similar to the retirement requirements.

You may also see Immigration stopping the issuance of visas from neighboring countries if you are not a citizen of that country or have a valid long term visa for that country, if they see that as a problem area in the future.

[martin19thhole]

I have a non immigrant catogary B visa single entry visa and am from the U.K. Can you tell me how the new laws will affect me.Thak you.

[Totster]

I have a non immigrant catogary B visa single entry visa and am from the U.K. Can you tell me how the new laws will affect me.Thak you.

Are you in Thailand now ?

Do you have an extension on the B visa ?

How long are you intending to stay in Thailand ?

I would think that if you hold a visa and are not doing a "border run" every 30 days, and do not intend to be doing this, then the new regulations will not affect you at all.

totster

[dao khanong]

me first time in this forum look many nice ,and i like to ask question. i from holland and when i buy an 3 entry tourist visa in holland (1 entry, i make after 2 month longer in soi suan plu for one month for 1900 bath- tafter that extra month i fly 1 day to singapore and come back same day)i can stay in thai about 9 months like that , because i want to stay 12 month in thailand i fly for the next three month every month 1 day to singapore so i can stay 30 day extra more in thailand

i want to ask what will change for me in this new visa law, thank you very much allready

khun mark from dao khanong

[yoshiwara]

do the authorities make money from visa runs? no.

do the authorities make mony from issuing 90 day visas? yes.

will those without retirement visas and having limited funds have more difficulty getting serial visas yes

will this be bad for the local economies supporting the needs of the expat community? yes

will the authorities retreat from blocking 12 month expat stayers: probably ....its bad for business!

[MarkBKK]

P.S bkkmadness .. how come you can get away with flogging your site in your signature but they deleted mine? Is there some sort of "clique" somewhere? .. where do I join? lol

Easy. Member with 47 posts (i.e. you at time of writing) = Shut up, do what you're told, follow the forum rules (ambivalent though they may be). Member with 3,251 posts = Do what you like, no rules apply.

[Totster]

P.S bkkmadness .. how come you can get away with flogging your site in your signature but they deleted mine? Is there some sort of "clique" somewhere? .. where do I join? lol

Easy. Member with 47 posts (i.e. you at time of writing) = Shut up, do what you're told, follow the forum rules (ambivalent though they may be). Member with 3,251 posts = Do what you like, no rules apply.

Jasus... it's like being in the school playground sometimes.

The rules have been applied fairly.

Now.. back on topic please.

totster

[terrytan]

Gents,

Sorry if I have missed this before, but there are 54 pages now !!

Does all this start from October 1st moving forwards or does it go back to March

My Visa is out on 23rd September and I do not know whether to do a border run or fly out (inconvenient at the moment) and start a retirement visa

Thks

[Heng]

That is on a consulate and not on the main immigration site. There are two things that can be done about this. First know that the Thais are reading this and perhaps using our comments to help sort out this bad decision and see what collective thinking comes up with.

What to do:

Continue to post what you predict will happen to the Thais based on your personal observations and opinions, and wait and see if it actually Starts on October 1. That is about all we can do. I suspect that already changes are being made because of just how much more it will hurt Thailand. This is one of the things that looks good on paper to the Thais and that is about all.

I think this is wishful thinking. Sure, there are Thais reading this, but no one of of significance.... unless you think that me, Stevemagnino, or Bambina have more influence than we really do.

Probably better to campaign directly, to the heads of the main political parties, to the top immigration police generals, etc. Preferably by farangs who are here legally, those with legit visas, PR, citizenship, etc.

[phuketrichard]

How long have you been here??

You really think the Thai's give a shit how a bunch of us thinks??

LOL

[taxexile]

at least it will reduce the exposure of others to the immensely sad and degrading sight of a busload of unshaven , sleepy , baggy eyed , scruffy falangs tumbling out of a bus in a cloud of tobacco smoke and beer fumes with their plastic carrier bags , to be herded like humiliated lemmings by some impatient driver/agent to the immigration sheds of a neighbouring country in order to fill out endless forms so as to qualify for the dubious priveledge of being able to do it all over again a month or two later.

it is no way for a country to run an immigration policy , nor should visitors be stripped of their dignity by being made to go through this pathetic charade.

i hope a better way will be found to allow visitors to remain in this country for extended periods.

[Thaiquila]

at least it will reduce the exposure of others to the immensely sad and degrading sight of a busload of unshaven , sleepy , baggy eyed , scruffy falangs tumbling out of a bus in a cloud of tobacco smoke and beer fumes with their plastic carrier bags , to be herded like humiliated lemmings by some impatient driver/agent to the immigration sheds of a neighbouring country in order to fill out endless forms so as to qualify for the dubious priveledge of being able to do it all over again a month or two later.

it is no way for a country to run an immigration policy , nor should visitors be stripped of their dignity by being made to go through this pathetic charade.

i hope a better way will be found to allow visitors to remain in this country for extended periods.

Agreed! But that is not what is happening. Stuff is being taken away with nothing to replace it.

Simple solution, lower the retirement visa age, offer 30 day renewals on stamps in Thailand (similar to Philippines and Belize) and make it much easier for teachers to get work permits. But that isn't the intention of these changes. The intention is to keep a class of people out, but in the process, alot of very decent people are also getting kicked out. Also, it seems quite clear that Thailand government right now does not want people under 50 being in Thailand without working. That of course is their right and no amount of whining is going to change that.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Thaiquila

[marquess]

at least it will reduce the exposure of others to the immensely sad and degrading sight of a busload of unshaven , sleepy , baggy eyed , scruffy falangs tumbling out of a bus in a cloud of tobacco smoke and beer fumes with their plastic carrier bags , to be herded like humiliated lemmings by some impatient driver/agent to the immigration sheds of a neighbouring country in order to fill out endless forms so as to qualify for the dubious priveledge of being able to do it all over again a month or two later.

it is no way for a country to run an immigration policy , nor should visitors be stripped of their dignity by being made to go through this pathetic charade.

i hope a better way will be found to allow visitors to remain in this country for extended periods.

Agreed! But that is not what is happening. Stuff is being taken away with nothing to replace it.

Simple solution, lower the retirement visa age, offer 30 day renewals on stamps in Thailand (similar to Philippines and Belize) and make it much easier for teachers to get work permits. But that isn't the intention of these changes. The intention is to keep a class of people out, but in the process, alot of very decent people are also getting kicked out. Also, it seems quite clear that Thailand government right now does not want people under 50 being in Thailand without working. That of course is their right and no amount of whining is going to change that.

Yeah we wouldn't want the Thai gov to have to start to pay for housing and give out state benefits, to all those poor farangs!

[thaihome]

I'm ready to beam you up and out. You have a THAI wife and kids? If that is so, then why didn't you just do the 1 year extension to a proper non-immigrant visa for supporting your wife and kids?

Because immigration requires a billion baht sitting in the bank doing nothing. My wife and I went through this a few years ago and when we learned the 'price' we gave up. I told them that if I had that much money I'd give it to her and she'd buy rice fields. Ironically, although it may be designed to guarantee her support, it couldn't be in her name, or joint; it had to be be in my name. So if I died or ran out on her, she would be destitute.

this is the classic post that is making all these threads so maddening. The entire content is one inaccuracy:

1. To get a married visa extension, you have to have 400k baht (far less then a billion) at the time of application. You can spend all or any part of that 400k over the next after the extension is granted. All you then do, is top up the account before the re-applying.

2. To the best of my knowledge, it can be a joint account.

The tone of your post makes it apparent you would rather complain than actually go find out the facts. An attitude that is rampant here.

TH

[dao khanong]

me first time in this forum look many nice ,and i like to ask question. i from holland and when i buy an 3 entry tourist visa in holland (1 entry, i make after 2 month longer in soi suan plu for one month for 1900 bath- tafter that extra month i fly 1 day to singapore and come back same day)i can stay in thai about 9 months like that , because i want to stay 12 month in thailand i fly for the next three month every month 1 day to singapore so i can stay 30 day extra more in thailand

i want to ask what will change for me in this new visa law, thank you very much allready

khun mark from dao khanong

[KhunRut]

Well this is my first post and I will let you in on what I have found. A friend of mine stopped in today. He is on a 60 day tourist visa that he gets from the Thai consulate in Savannakhet. When he went to the consulate today, they told him that the consulate could no longer issue more than 2 60 day tourist visas per year . When he asked what he should do they told him that he should just go to any Immigration office for an extention. (You can normally get 2 one month extensions to a 60 day visa if you are over 50.) He was told by the consular official and the Immigration officer upon his return to Mukdahan that he would be allowed multiple (basically unlimited) extensions of the 60 day visa at any Immigration office. Of course this is to the tune of 1900 baht per extension.

Seems to me everybody gains a little from this. Thailand will gain a boatload of money in fees that they didn't get before. They get to vet everyone on a monthly basis. The farang will no longer be faced with trips to Laos and Cambodia that are just as costly as the fee. The money will stay in Thailand and the government looks good in the process... Win win eh? It is a way to recoup lost tax money and still create long term stay possibilities.

[bkkmadness]

P.S bkkmadness .. how come you can get away with flogging your site in your signature but they deleted mine? Is there some sort of "clique" somewhere? .. where do I join? lol

Easy. Member with 47 posts (i.e. you at time of writing) = Shut up, do what you're told, follow the forum rules (ambivalent though they may be). Member with 3,251 posts = Do what you like, no rules apply.

Well I had to remove my link too Markbbk, so rules apply for everyone. I was getting away with it coz no one noticed it, thanks lads for bringing it up.

[steveromagnino]

I think this is wishful thinking. Sure, there are Thais reading this, but no one of of significance.... unless you think that me, Stevemagnino, or Bambina have more influence than we really do.

Don't underestimate us mate:

Me: direct line to Taksin's driver's chair :-)

Bambina: direct line to the cat of the secretary of K Suriya

You: ????

To be honest I was f&*king sick of paying tax and watching illegal deadbeats not pay tax and work illegally when I was in the entertainment industry. It totally screwed the legal ones, of which there were some.

This new measure is overkill, terribly implemented and isn't quite right.

But the spirit of it is needed, and with some tweaks will acheive some semblance of control.

The people EVERYONE should be angry at are dive instructors, teachers, etc - all the foreigners working illegally AND the idiots who employ them (often Thai!); the large numbers of property developers in the south who have been dodging Thai law to allow foreign ownerships; the mobsters on Samui and the crappy crappy border control to date. They've pushed this to a point where it is a potential election issue, and that's why there is this response.

I doubt much can be said, because most Thai people would agree with the response (save some implementation issues, which has been to say the least, s^&t). And no one has been able to give me any data that suggests this will have a remotely significant impact on the economy long term other than hysterical personal 'screw you guys I'm going home' posts.

Without an impact report, there is no point in talking to anyone. On a more serious note, if someone wanted to make a case, I can get it to the finance ministry, but as I said, I doubt that there is evidence that will persuade them; other than the investment visa bit and possibly implementation issues. e.g. tourism satisfaction study; spending effect study

Besides which, how much influence would finance ministry have any way? I bet TAT is already up in arms about this, and it probably hasn't got them anywhere.

Most senior guy round here stopped listening to his advisors 2 years ago, maybe better idea to hope for a more reasonable result post election.

But I think the direction will be the same. Short term loss for long term gain.

I hope.

[keekwai]

P.S bkkmadness .. how come you can get away with flogging your site in your signature but they deleted mine? Is there some sort of "clique" somewhere? .. where do I join? lol

Easy. Member with 47 posts (i.e. you at time of writing) = Shut up, do what you're told, follow the forum rules (ambivalent though they may be). Member with 3,251 posts = Do what you like, no rules apply.

Actually .. bkkmadness .. sig was deleted too .. becsuse I drew attention to it as I was slightly p****ed off about it. I have since apologized to him through a PM and gave him the offer to put a link on my Thailand related site (easier going restrictions there!) .. All is cool between us .. I think!

As for the number of posts a person has relating to whether or not "rules" apply to them or whether they are a better poster or not .. utter rubbish. I know there are quite a few snot nosed people with that attitude and they are basically tossers. Any logical person would agree that quality beats quantity any time. Any idiot can reply to posts 2000 times with no more content than a smiley! (Quite a few of them here but I won't mention who they are .. I may get banned)

Now go and crawl back under your rock.

Edited September 15, 2006 by keekwai