New Rules, Updates From Sunbelt?

[Visaman]

Question for the Sunbelt guy...

Ok, then where does that leave me - I've been here since 10th May, have already done 3 visa runs etc, and my current stamp expires on 29th September... I was planning on going home by 6th November when my ticket expires...

I have just booked two teenage daughters to come and stay 2 weeks (8th Oct - 25th Oct) and now have no idea if I will even be allowed to be here! Which could mess up the girl's holiday a bit...

What is your opinion - will I be given another 30 days if I turn up for a visa run at Ban Laem on or before 29th September????

Regards, Ben

I just talked to the officers at Ban Laem, no problem to get a W30 before Oct 1,

[mgreijm]

This is a compliation from comments made by foreigners working in Laos:

Assuming that previous lists of nationalities have nothing to do with the new rules? The same goes for Singaporians, Lao, Europeans, etc...

Maybe foreigners working in Laos can be excluded from the rules based on that we have valid working permits in Laos - meaning no intention to play around with Thai rules

All shoppers from Laos and places to shop at will be affected - Tesco Lotus in Udon Thani and Nongkhai will lose major incomes.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Another quick one hopefully for sunbelt. If one gets the tourist visa at say the consulate in LA, can I go back with the 90 days from the last trip. Say I was there in August 06 and that trip put me at 3 trips in, can I get a tourist visa and go at the end of October? Does the visa negate the 90 day waiting period. In other words now every time I go to Thailand I need to get a tourist visa?

If you go back with a tourist visa, this does not count towards your quota. You are allowed into Thailand even if you have used up your quota of 30 day stamps.

Just want to say thanks to Sunbelt and George for running down the facts and separating them from fiction-the truth may hurt but it's still the truth-I'm gonna miss you guys-give me a call when you visit Phenom Phen...

You are welcome. Sometimes the facts change because of public reaction as this is an ongoing story. This happen yesterday as they are allowing previous approved investment visas to be now 'grandfather in"

We are hoping to hear more good news for the coming regulation for Oct 1st.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[chanchao]

Rather than just ask questions, can Sunbelt or anyone else with connections to someone a bit higher up the Immigration Dept tree bring it to their attention that the proposed regulation will be bad news for Thailand because they're making it harder for regional expats to do golf/leisure trips to Thailand regularly? Like the people working in Singapore, Hong Kong, etc?

Let's hope that this can then be brought up at their conference on Sept 15.

I think a limit on consecutive 30 day runs is basically a good idea to make the bums either leave or becoming legal. The only tweak needed is one of the following:

* Count number of days spent in Thailand; if you're a Hong Kong expat and fly to Thailand every couple of weeks, then you will still spend most of your time in Hong Kong, you just have loads of entries to Thailand but it's completely obvious that you're NOT living in Thailand permanently and you're NOT abusing any rules.

or,

* Check only land borders, not airports. So limit the number of visa free stays at places like Mae Sai, Poi Pet, Ranong, but don't be nasty to business men and expat leisure travellers coming in at Suvarnabhumi.

It's not that hard to make this a sensible rule.

[Soju]

Rather than just ask questions, can Sunbelt or anyone else with connections to someone a bit higher up the Immigration Dept tree bring it to their attention that the proposed regulation will be bad news for Thailand because they're making it harder for regional expats to do golf/leisure trips to Thailand regularly? Like the people working in Singapore, Hong Kong, etc?

Let's hope that this can then be brought up at their conference on Sept 15.

I think a limit on consecutive 30 day runs is basically a good idea to make the bums either leave or becoming legal. The only tweak needed is one of the following:

* Count number of days spent in Thailand; if you're a Hong Kong expat and fly to Thailand every couple of weeks, then you will still spend most of your time in Hong Kong, you just have loads of entries to Thailand but it's completely obvious that you're NOT living in Thailand permanently and you're NOT abusing any rules.

or,

* Check only land borders, not airports. So limit the number of visa free stays at places like Mae Sai, Poi Pet, Ranong, but don't be nasty to business men and expat leisure travellers coming in at Suvarnabhumi.

It's not that hard to make this a sensible rule.

Counting the number of days would be a good solution, IMHO. Checking only at the land borders would not. There are cheap flights now on low cost carriers that would allow the visa runners to continue, and many frequent tourists like to take side trips to neighboring countries, often via land.

Maybe the thing to do is to contact Thai Air and Bangkok Air and let them know how this new ruling is going to negatively impact their business. We as foreigners have virtually no influence on what the Thai government does, but a big corporation like Thai Airways certainly should have some pull with the Thai government. If they can be convinced that they're about to lose a good chunk of their business due to tourists going elsewhere, they'll likely be motivated to lobby immigration to modify their ruling. In my own personal case, Thai Air stands to lose about 80% of my business if this new policy is implemented.

[jdinasia]

soju ...since most folks do border runs and not fly ..... this will probably not affect them

well maybe in a mass exodus of folks actually flying out to get new visas ... that could help the airlines

[mgreijm]

An NGO working in Laos discussed this with the Dutch Ambassador in BKK today and their information is that this rules only aplies to 'visa shoppers'. It seems that it only aplies for people who renew their visa exactly after one month by leaving the country and re-entering the next day. You can only do this once (stay of two months). When you use your visa just for a few days and that after a while enter again, it's expected to be no problem.

[bkk_mike]

Rather than just ask questions, can Sunbelt or anyone else with connections to someone a bit higher up the Immigration Dept tree bring it to their attention that the proposed regulation will be bad news for Thailand because they're making it harder for regional expats to do golf/leisure trips to Thailand regularly? Like the people working in Singapore, Hong Kong, etc?

Let's hope that this can then be brought up at their conference on Sept 15.

I think a limit on consecutive 30 day runs is basically a good idea to make the bums either leave or becoming legal. The only tweak needed is one of the following:

* Count number of days spent in Thailand; if you're a Hong Kong expat and fly to Thailand every couple of weeks, then you will still spend most of your time in Hong Kong, you just have loads of entries to Thailand but it's completely obvious that you're NOT living in Thailand permanently and you're NOT abusing any rules.

or,

* Check only land borders, not airports. So limit the number of visa free stays at places like Mae Sai, Poi Pet, Ranong, but don't be nasty to business men and expat leisure travellers coming in at Suvarnabhumi.

It's not that hard to make this a sensible rule.

Counting the number of days would be a good solution, IMHO. Checking only at the land borders would not. There are cheap flights now on low cost carriers that would allow the visa runners to continue, and many frequent tourists like to take side trips to neighboring countries, often via land.

Maybe the thing to do is to contact Thai Air and Bangkok Air and let them know how this new ruling is going to negatively impact their business. We as foreigners have virtually no influence on what the Thai government does, but a big corporation like Thai Airways certainly should have some pull with the Thai government. If they can be convinced that they're about to lose a good chunk of their business due to tourists going elsewhere, they'll likely be motivated to lobby immigration to modify their ruling. In my own personal case, Thai Air stands to lose about 80% of my business if this new policy is implemented.

Isn't the big issue for airlines going to be that they would effectively have to enforce the rule...

I don't see how they can do this at airports without the airlines complaining... I'd be very surprised if this isn't land borders only, if only for the reason that check-in staff don't have time to go through people's passports checking the dates on their entry stamps.

Unless they're going to issue immigration computer access to all airlines flying into Thailand so that they can check people don't have an entry in the last 90 days, or that if they did, they didn't have 2 further entries in the 60 days up to that entry, the airlines would simply refuse to take people back on the basis that they shouldn't be penalised for failing to check something they have no way of checking. (as they're the ones who have to pay to take people back that are refused entry).

And you need the computer access to do it, as people may have been issued new passports in the meantime, or are travelling on another passport. The only other reliable way to enforce it on air travel would be to get rid of the 30 day leave to enter altogether, and require everybody to get a visa before visiting Thailand.

Edited September 13, 2006 by bkk_mike

[Maestro]

Unless they're going to issue immigration computer access to all airlines flying into Thailand so that they can check people don't have an entry in the last 90 days, or that if they did, they didn't have 2 further entries in the 60 days up to that entry, the airlines would simply refuse to take people back on the basis that they shouldn't be penalised for failing to check something they have no way of checking. (as they're the ones who have to pay to take people back that are refused entry).

If there is no visa in the passenger’s passport the airline only has to check if the passenger has a return or onward flight within 30 days. If not, boarding denied. This is no change from the current practice, although some airlines apparently have not always implemented it in the past.

---------------

Maestro

[britmaveric]

UPDATE ON NEW VISA RULES - an email from a reader, 13 September.

I went to Department Of Immigration on Soi Suan Plu to ask some questions and this is what I got:

1.) There are some changes for perpetual tourist. This is the new routine:

a.) Maximum of three 30 day stamps in a period of 90 days. Then you have to wait another 90 days before you can get a new stamp. So you can make 3 visa runs in a row.

b.) After you've made 3 visa runs in a row, you need to travel to foreign country and apply at a Thai embassy for 60 day visa. The rule is 3 30 day stamps in 90 days, the new rules do not prevent you from re-entering with a

60 day visa, which you can extend for 30 days at Immigration department on Soi Suan Plu.

c.) With the tourist visa you will clear 90 days, 60 day tourist visa and 30 day extension. You are free to go back to (a.) and repeat the process.

2.) What about my 5 years of consecutive visa stamps from Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia and Burma? They don't mean a thing. Don't worry about those, new rules take effect Oct 1 2006, they start counting stamps after Oct 1st 2006. All stamps and visas before Oct 1st 2006 are of no concern.

3.) The crackdown is aimed at Indian and Chinese nationals. I'm sorry to those people, no disrespect intended from this post. Passport holders from Europe, Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand have no worries.

Would be nice to have confirmation that my information is correct. What are other people saying? And what is happening at borders? We will just have to wait see what really goes down after Oct 1st.

stickman.com

[Rinrada]

Unless they're going to issue immigration computer access to all airlines flying into Thailand so that they can check people don't have an entry in the last 90 days, or that if they did, they didn't have 2 further entries in the 60 days up to that entry, the airlines would simply refuse to take people back on the basis that they shouldn't be penalised for failing to check something they have no way of checking. (as they're the ones who have to pay to take people back that are refused entry).

If there is no visa in the passenger’s passport the airline only has to check if the passenger has a return or onward flight within 30 days. If not, boarding denied. This is no change from the current practice, although some airlines apparently have not always implemented it in the past.

---------------

Maestro

Could it happen....latest news from Heathrow....

Ist oct 2006...

it was reported last night that a British Eerways Jumbo jet with 325 single male (suggested sex tourists) were refused entry to Thailand on the grounds that they had all been in the country 3 times earlier in the year and their 90 Visa Waiver "convienence" facility had expired

A spokesman for British Ers-Eirways refused to comment but was heard to mutter..."no one told us about this...****"

A Spokesman for the sex tou....er Passengers said..."We Wos Sticthed up...".."wos all as "appy as pigs in manure on the way out and then this ."appens...wot the b...I am bona fide international traveller..so I am...visa wot thats?"

A spokesman for the silly airplanes industry legislation body says.

." the airline should have checked their right to enter LOS before they departed and apart from having to fly the bug,,,er passengers back home again- ..for Free could be fined up to £ 5000 each"

Ignorange of the LAW is No excuse.... ....Mai k jai

[prairieoyster]

It's sounds like a bit of an inconvenience to me. I live and work in Cambodia a few klicks from the Thai border and cross over on an almost weekly basis for a few hours to do a bit of shopping and use the ATM. I guess I'll have to wait to see how it shakes out. Currently the Thai's do not stamp me in and out for a trip to the ATM which is about 75m inside the border, they just hold your passport while I go to the ATM and return it to me when I leave.

oyster

[balikbayan]

It seems (so far) that the solution for those under 50 with no inclination or need to work here is to do this every year:

1. Get a quad-entry 6-month tourist visa (from your own country or elsewhere), come to Thailand.

2. Do a visa run as usual every 60 days, which will put you on your 2nd entry after 2 months, and 3rd entry after 4 months, approx.

2. Use the 4th and final entry the day before the visa expires, to get a further 60 days.

3. Extend this 60-day stay to 90 days at the immigration office in Bangkok (costs about 2,000 baht, right?) - you've now got a total of 9 months in Thailand on your 6-month visa.

4. Once this entry expires, you can still do the 3x30-day visa "exception" thing, which takes you to 12 months. Repeat and rinse.

Is it really that simple?

[balikbayan]

bkkbaz,

your strategy might work if the thai embassies/consulates will allow you to get tourist visas over and over.i believe there's a limited number of renewals for tourist visas.or again i can be wrong.......

It seems (so far) that the solution for those under 50 with no inclination or need to work here is to do this every year:

1. Get a quad-entry 6-month tourist visa (from your own country or elsewhere), come to Thailand.

2. Do a visa run as usual every 60 days, which will put you on your 2nd entry after 2 months, and 3rd entry after 4 months, approx.

2. Use the 4th and final entry the day before the visa expires, to get a further 60 days.

3. Extend this 60-day stay to 90 days at the immigration office in Bangkok (costs about 2,000 baht, right?) - you've now got a total of 9 months in Thailand on your 6-month visa.

4. Once this entry expires, you can still do the 3x30-day visa "exception" thing, which takes you to 12 months. Repeat and rinse.

Is it really that simple?

[george]

Here is the full regulation from Thai Immigration,

valid from Oct 1, 2006:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83253