h90 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 military gives a lot more confidence to investors than a total corrupt clueless government + shooting or burning on the streets. From university lectures who never worked anything in their life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU. And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable? Absolutely - you are making a false dichotomy here - i.e. - Democracies have problems in their economies there fore undemocratic economies are better" - this is a false dichotomy. The truth is that ALL economy have problems but they are best solved by ope debate - it is very unlikely that one person or a junta or single party state can have a healthy debate of how to handle economics of a state...in the long run they usually implode. No economy is isolated of the rest of the world and all are subject to outside forces that are usually unstoppable, but it is certainly ill-advised to listen to one barely qualified person for a solution - take a look at the stock market crash in Thailand under the previous junta - these elementary mistakes are more likely to be avoided when there is a free an open debate as opposed to hastily conceived dictums. I know very little a/b economics. It appears that free market and without monopolies enhance many nations growth. Of course there is a great positive correlation between disastrous economies and corruption. Thailand is rife with corruption. Does Thailand have a "free market" mentality? lol I think not. Now where does the expression "free market" enter the equation? You cannot equate democracy and free market..... No market is entirely free and in democracies the market is usually restricted by democratic consensus. Sadly foir zThailand, graft nepotism and other forms of corruption are endemic.... However this is more or less constant and therefore not relevant to the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Very few democratically elected leaders have patience for the general. He puts Thailand in a poor light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaamBaht Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Isn't it fascinating that the Rice Scheme dreamed up by a democratically elected Puppet set the Thai Rice Market in the most uncompetitive footing (artificially higher prices) and opened the door for rice producing neighbors to (pardon the pun) eat Thailand's lunch. The number one export, shot in the arse. It is pathetic to see these article coming out that are written in the following way "Create a headline that is absurd" then ramble on with ridiculous "proof" that says "Things that happened before the coup, are now all the coup's fault." Don't get me wrong, I like democracy. I also like handguns. I just would not give a handgun to a person who did not understand "safety on, safety off" and even though you can use one as a hammer to drive nails .. I would strongly advise against it. In order for a democracy to evolve, it must exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU. And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable? Absolutely - you are making a false dichotomy here - i.e. - Democracies have problems in their economies there fore undemocratic economies are better" - this is a false dichotomy. The truth is that ALL economy have problems but they are best solved by ope debate - it is very unlikely that one person or a junta or single party state can have a healthy debate of how to handle economics of a state...in the long run they usually implode. No economy is isolated of the rest of the world and all are subject to outside forces that are usually unstoppable, but it is certainly ill-advised to listen to one barely qualified person for a solution - take a look at the stock market crash in Thailand under the previous junta - these elementary mistakes are more likely to be avoided when there is a free an open debate as opposed to hastily conceived dictums. Stock market crash under a Junta? How does that compare with the Tom Yum Kung crisis under elected governments?One is an undemocratic decision made by a single man.... The other was a regional crash involving several nations, both democratic and otherwise. As I said earlier there are forces outside a country's ability to influence. There is also an argument foir boom bust cycles... But that again is another theory on how a democratic economy can work and how it can protect itself from the worst of these vagaries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Isn't it fascinating that the Rice Scheme dreamed up by a democratically elected Puppet set the Thai Rice Market in the most uncompetitive footing (artificially higher prices) and opened the door for rice producing neighbors to (pardon the pun) eat Thailand's lunch. The number one export, shot in the arse. It is pathetic to see these article coming out that are written in the following way "Create a headline that is absurd" then ramble on with ridiculous "proof" that says "Things that happened before the coup, are now all the coup's fault." Don't get me wrong, I like democracy. I also like handguns. I just would not give a handgun to a person who did not understand "safety on, safety off" and even though you can use one as a hammer to drive nails .. I would strongly advise against it. In order for a democracy to evolve, it must exist. Evolve means to survive and grow. It had existed but did not evolve. So now, we need to correct the environment for it to evolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 If the econy grows, who will do the work? Please explain?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Since 2006 Thailand has not had a leader with business and entrepreneurial skills !!! The downward economic trend will continue until a semblance of true democracy returns , with a leader who is an astute businessman . Korn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerrysum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Democracy is the only way forward in Thailand's case , no one with an ounce of brains will invest in a country where risk is dealing with an unpredictable Junta , you could at the whim of a section - article 44 type law lose the lot , no , Thailand must return back to Democracy , you are going to have a bumpy ride as Democracy shakes off its shackles and freedom of speech , better education , better political representation , better laws , better people minded projects and humanitarian programs start to kick in, this could take decades , but hey Thailand has the nounce and the gumption to get there, just go for it, and if you need a hand along the way, all you've gotta do is call. . I'd agree with your assessment, been there done that! It is no different here in America...... One must define Democracy... Better off, how about a Republic? The wife says, "Hell no I won't go...." Just my thoughts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceybonus Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 military gives a lot more confidence to investors than a total corrupt clueless government + shooting or burning on the streets. From university lectures who never worked anything in their life.... On Planet Zog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a6patch Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 As an American, I'm a believer in democracy and free educated voting citizens. However, I don't agree that there is a direct correlation between degree of democracy and ability to grow an economy and develop a country in an effective way. China is a pretty good example of an UN-democratic government massively successful at developing infrastructure and growing its economy. Clearly, there are issues of lack of freedom, environmental/pollution, elitism, etc etc. But the stated "fact" that an undemocratic government is incompatible with development and economic growth is highly questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 How can Thailand have democracy when an ex general installs himself as Thailands self elected PM ??????? It can't. Anymore than it can when a convicted criminal fugitive installs himself without being elected but through open corruption. That's why things need to change, really change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Very few democratically elected leaders have patience for the general. He puts Thailand in a poor light. Been confiding in you have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 military gives a lot more confidence to investors than a total corrupt clueless government + shooting or burning on the streets. From university lectures who never worked anything in their life.... On Planet Zog? Hope you have a safe trip back to Earth Brucey. Been home visiting the relatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Toscano, on 25 May 2015 - 09:48, said: Since 2006 Thailand has not had a leader with business and entrepreneurial skills !!! The downward economic trend will continue until a semblance of true democracy returns , with a leader who is an astute businessman . Does it have to be a businessman or could it be a businesswoman? This is what the FT (The Financial Times) said about Yingluck Shinawatra on July 3, 2011 She was the chief executive of Advanced Info Service, the telecoms company he (Thaksin() founded and built into the country’s biggest mobile carrier; she was also a director of Manchester City, the British Premier League soccer club that her brother bought in 2007 and sold the following year; and most recently she has been the CEO of SC Asset Corp, a listed property developer majority owned by Mr Thaksin’s two children. But, despite her gilded rise to the top, she commands respect in the business world. SC Asset Corp’s share price has more than doubled in the five years she has been at the helm, compared with a 45 per cent increase in the broader SET Index. She also has a master's degree in public administration from Kentucky State University. “She was very well armed with all the available facts and statistics, and certainly very professional,” said one businessman who has travelled on international conferences with Ms Yingluck. But, he adds, “She was certainly less approachable then than she seems now.” Ms Yingluck has proved to be a fast learner. In May, at the start of the election campaign, she was a halting public speaker who tended to sound shrill and who avoided in-depth interviews. Last Friday night, she stood on a stage in the pouring rain working the crowd at Puea Thai’s final campaign event like a seasoned pro. Just shows how wrong they can be. Unless you see any of that demonstrated in the near 3 years she pretended to be the Thai PM for her brother. Remember all those wonderful debates in parliament, the sparkling conference performances, her quick wit and shrewd mind in answering all those PM's questions? No, neither does anyone because it never happened. She did demonstrate a bit of acting though - crying for the cameras and then bursting out laughing when she thought the cameras were off. An Amply Rich spoiled very wealthy woman, member of a very rich family that can boast numerous convictions for corruption, and quite happy to break oaths, vows and promises to further the family interests. Without morals, ethics and any compassion for others. Just like her siblings. Enron did will at one time to, and WorldCom. Of course they didn't have the benefits of changing laws to create monopolies, charge what they liked or change laws to avoid taxes and make sales that might be against the countries interests interests. Anyone who traveled with Yingluck is not likely to be someone who has an objective view. Your not naive to believe that other than lackeys would be taken are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobb Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 What i do not understand is why Thailand can not compete with other Asian countries. Thailand,s min wage is higher then most Asian countries but not enough money to live for workers to live on. Quite simple the other Asian counties manage there money better and probably less corruption in they buying markets. Bad politians and corruption still not completely under control! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Obviously democracy is not in itself going to fix the economy, it depends on who is voted into power, and the amount of progress or harm they are allowed to make within a specific nation's regulatory framework, frameworks which vary greatly from one democracy to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchurch259 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 You can not have Democracy with the level of corruption that exist/ or did in Thailand. Bought and paid for votes are not a Democracy !! Most of the mouths have never lived in a Democratic Country, actually very few in the World have. Even in the USA we have a Republic and it is being run by whoever has the most money and stuff to give away. Let the General/PM keep flushing the devise until the water is clear, in another year or two. Then talk about holding an election. Another thing the US has 370 million people and 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, 535 to represent the People. Thailand has 70 million and how many Political Lackeys struting around in the pretty white uniforms with more medals than Audie Murphy earned in WW II. I have lived here in this Beautiful Country 11 years and because I keep my nose clean I do not even feel a Junta, actually feel better because I believe the corruption is beginning to go away. What this country needs very badly is a strong educational system where the young people can learn how to better run their lives and this country. It will take at least one to two generations to really make Thailand shine !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emster23 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 "The economic slowdown was caused by poor income distribution and political problems" Poor income distribution means elite get 99% then wonder why average Thai doesn't buy their products: answer is "they have no money to spend!" Trickle down voodoo econ doesn't work, never has. Decent livable wages helps everyone... squeezing blood from turnips means no market to share. Majority of Thai people starting to realize they are getting screwed by their masters and want some balance. Way they show this is "political problems" which leads to elite backed army coups. "A hungry mob is an angry mob. They belly full but we hungry" -Marley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchurch259 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Yes and Bull Feces doesn't smell !! Toscano, on 25 May 2015 - 09:48, said: Since 2006 Thailand has not had a leader with business and entrepreneurial skills !!! The downward economic trend will continue until a semblance of true democracy returns , with a leader who is an astute businessman . Does it have to be a businessman or could it be a businesswoman? This is what the FT (The Financial Times) said about Yingluck Shinawatra on July 3, 2011 She was the chief executive of Advanced Info Service, the telecoms company he (Thaksin() founded and built into the country’s biggest mobile carrier; she was also a director of Manchester City, the British Premier League soccer club that her brother bought in 2007 and sold the following year; and most recently she has been the CEO of SC Asset Corp, a listed property developer majority owned by Mr Thaksin’s two children. But, despite her gilded rise to the top, she commands respect in the business world. SC Asset Corp’s share price has more than doubled in the five years she has been at the helm, compared with a 45 per cent increase in the broader SET Index. She also has a master's degree in public administration from Kentucky State University. “She was very well armed with all the available facts and statistics, and certainly very professional,” said one businessman who has travelled on international conferences with Ms Yingluck. But, he adds, “She was certainly less approachable then than she seems now.” Ms Yingluck has proved to be a fast learner. In May, at the start of the election campaign, she was a halting public speaker who tended to sound shrill and who avoided in-depth interviews. Last Friday night, she stood on a stage in the pouring rain working the crowd at Puea Thai’s final campaign event like a seasoned pro. Edited May 25, 2015 by gchurch259 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU. And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable? Democracy and economic growth through incurring debts. These are the two worst possible combinations. People who are addicted to debts would elect a government who would feed them more debts. The feel good effect. What they actually need is a government who sees and addresses the long term problem by cutting down debts. The economy and people would suffer withdrawal symptoms in the short-term, but would be healthier thereafter. Would the people elect such a government? Greece had just gave their answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ummm .... But you forgot the correlation between increased democracy and incraesed corruption in Thailand. See ... http://kyotoreview.org/issue-1/provincializing-thai-politics/ oner book is 15 years old and the other is 21 years - hardly a current viewpoint. However it is one that would be hotly contested by many. Corruption in Thailand is ancient - literally - and the premise that it has increased proportionately with democratisation is highly debatable - one also should look at the politics of the authors of those books..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 military gives a lot more confidence to investors than a total corrupt clueless government + shooting or burning on the streets. From university lectures who never worked anything in their life.... To be fair, the investment and foreign business laws, before the junta, were not great. They just made a lack luster situation look even less attractive. No, article 44 does not instill confidence, and the age old foreign ownership laws are unattractive. Nobody wants to see college students pushed around for protesting peacefully either. We got some wonderful things done in Thailand, and were thinking of setting up there. The coup changed our minds. We just decide to work with Thailand from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 You can not have Democracy with the level of corruption that exist/ or did in Thailand. Bought and paid for votes are not a Democracy !! Most of the mouths have never lived in a Democratic Country, actually very few in the World have. Even in the USA we have a Republic and it is being run by whoever has the most money and stuff to give away. Let the General/PM keep flushing the devise until the water is clear, in another year or two. Then talk about holding an election. Another thing the US has 370 million people and 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, 535 to represent the People. Thailand has 70 million and how many Political Lackeys struting around in the pretty white uniforms with more medals than Audie Murphy earned in WW II. I have lived here in this Beautiful Country 11 years and because I keep my nose clean I do not even feel a Junta, actually feel better because I believe the corruption is beginning to go away. What this country needs very badly is a strong educational system where the young people can learn how to better run their lives and this country. It will take at least one to two generations to really make Thailand shine !! one thing single party states hate is education - gives the people ideas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 You can not have Democracy with the level of corruption that exist/ or did in Thailand. Bought and paid for votes are not a Democracy !! Most of the mouths have never lived in a Democratic Country, actually very few in the World have. Even in the USA we have a Republic and it is being run by whoever has the most money and stuff to give away. Let the General/PM keep flushing the devise until the water is clear, in another year or two. Then talk about holding an election. Another thing the US has 370 million people and 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, 535 to represent the People. Thailand has 70 million and how many Political Lackeys struting around in the pretty white uniforms with more medals than Audie Murphy earned in WW II. I have lived here in this Beautiful Country 11 years and because I keep my nose clean I do not even feel a Junta, actually feel better because I believe the corruption is beginning to go away. What this country needs very badly is a strong educational system where the young people can learn how to better run their lives and this country. It will take at least one to two generations to really make Thailand shine !! one thing single party states hate is education - gives the people ideas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kareona Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Toscano, on 25 May 2015 - 09:48, said: Since 2006 Thailand has not had a leader with business and entrepreneurial skills !!! The downward economic trend will continue until a semblance of true democracy returns , with a leader who is an astute businessman . Does it have to be a businessman or could it be a businesswoman? This is what the FT (The Financial Times) said about Yingluck Shinawatra on July 3, 2011 She was the chief executive of Advanced Info Service, the telecoms company he (Thaksin() founded and built into the country’s biggest mobile carrier; she was also a director of Manchester City, the British Premier League soccer club that her brother bought in 2007 and sold the following year; and most recently she has been the CEO of SC Asset Corp, a listed property developer majority owned by Mr Thaksin’s two children. But, despite her gilded rise to the top, she commands respect in the business world. SC Asset Corp’s share price has more than doubled in the five years she has been at the helm, compared with a 45 per cent increase in the broader SET Index. She also has a master's degree in public administration from Kentucky State University. “She was very well armed with all the available facts and statistics, and certainly very professional,” said one businessman who has travelled on international conferences with Ms Yingluck. But, he adds, “She was certainly less approachable then than she seems now.” Ms Yingluck has proved to be a fast learner. In May, at the start of the election campaign, she was a halting public speaker who tended to sound shrill and who avoided in-depth interviews. Last Friday night, she stood on a stage in the pouring rain working the crowd at Puea Thai’s final campaign event like a seasoned pro. Just shows how wrong they can be. Unless you see any of that demonstrated in the near 3 years she pretended to be the Thai PM for her brother. Remember all those wonderful debates in parliament, the sparkling conference performances, her quick wit and shrewd mind in answering all those PM's questions? No, neither does anyone because it never happened. She did demonstrate a bit of acting though - crying for the cameras and then bursting out laughing when she thought the cameras were off. An Amply Rich spoiled very wealthy woman, member of a very rich family that can boast numerous convictions for corruption, and quite happy to break oaths, vows and promises to further the family interests. Without morals, ethics and any compassion for others. Just like her siblings. Enron did will at one time to, and WorldCom. Of course they didn't have the benefits of changing laws to create monopolies, charge what they liked or change laws to avoid taxes and make sales that might be against the countries interests interests. Anyone who traveled with Yingluck is not likely to be someone who has an objective view. Your not naive to believe that other than lackeys would be taken are you? I congratulate you, you must be fluent in Thai to be able to make sense of Yingluck's speeches. I am also fluent in Thai and I agree that she was no genius. But she was never stupid or bad-mouthed. She was soft-spoken, agreeable and warm-hearted. Painting her as only a spoiled child is beside the truth. She was not crying before the camera's and not bursting out laughing afterwards. She became emotional when she said: 'If people attack me as prime-minister, it's OK. But they attack my family and my son too.' What's wrong becoming emotional then? And when she walked away she smiled at somebody behind her. 'She commanded respect in the business world', is another quote. I have more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU. And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable? Its all that cheap money floating around. My daughter bought a new car, my grandson bought a new car, my granddaughter bought a new car they all ran to the bank. My daughter shelled out $45,000 to buy a medium size Dodge diesel with a tow package for her financed trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU. And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable? Its all that cheap money floating around. My daughter bought a new car, my grandson bought a new car, my granddaughter bought a new car they all ran to the bank. My daughter shelled out $45,000 to buy a medium size Dodge diesel with a tow package for her financed trailer. And all that cheap money is a result of the Fed keeping interest rates low and printing more money through QE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 If the econy grows, who will do the work? Please explain?.... When teachers ask their students " Who wants to be a rice farmer?" There is dead silence and no hands go up. For the economy to grow we must have workers with full bellies. So does that answer your question? If one link in the chain breaks the chain is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 This bloke obviously need re-education about the role of the army in Thai politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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