Public Health Minister concerned with IQ drop among Thai children

[empireboy]

Twenty minutes a day of reading to children in the 1st four years of their life (don't worry they can't understand it initially) will increase their IQ by more than 20 points. This was told to me two and a half years ago when I was expecting my second daughter and I met a Professor with a PhD in 'Early Child development.at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital.

I took it to heart and my now not quite 2 and a 1/2 yr old can already recognise entire words, say her ABC's flawlessly all the way to Z and count to 20 no trouble at all... not to mention hold a pretty decent conversation in either of two languages! Food for thought.

[mikebell]

Thai fathers who go AWOL as soon as GF/wife develops a baby bulge aid and abet this downward spiral. They continue to sow their seed and move on like busy bees fertilising flowers. Farangs come along and cream off the honey.

[uli65]

hard to believe the IQ can still dropping in this country

[Praematura]

It's morally suspect to raise kids here. I feel bad for those kids who have a farang parent and could go back to the west for school.

[Jumper]

There's been a debate for some time about the validity of IQ testing. In that debate it's been suggested that the IQ test tests "modernity" more than intelligence (which leaves open the definition of intelligence). It's been suggested that if today's IQ test had been administered to people in 1860, they would have faired very poorly. In that light, I don't find it surprising that rural children scored generally lower than urban children.

Also, while I don't argue with the idea that there is a genetic influence on IQ or other "gifts", it is my opinion that education also has a role. In my career in engineering, for example, I found that the "gift" of creativity was something that could be taught and learned. That's not to say the you can make everyone equally creative, but an individual's creativity can be improved with education.

In the end, we're not talking about the world's prodigies here; we're talking about kids with average intelligence and how close to 100 they score.

[skildpadden]

Even if IQ and EQ levels are genetic any child should be allowed to reach their full potential with the right stimulation.

That stimulation begins at several places:
At home where parents (or grandparents) need to spend time with the kids, read for the kids, play with the kids using toys that stimulates creative processes and feed them nutritious meals instead of sausages from 7-11 or other chemical rich foods. Basically put an interest in the kids' general well being instead of gossiping with the village.
In schools where early years teachers has to provide a simulating learning environment without beating the crap out of the kids.

I think it is safe to say that those situations are not present in may rural areas and systems to support a positive change of the situation are non-existent - e.g. support and guidance for grandparents taking care of kids - grandparents who perhaps never saw much education themselves. Those systems need to be built up (intelligently) first.

The current state of quality of life for Thai children (family structure, education, upbringing, health) is something that has been pointed out many times on fora - I fear a generation is already lost and unless radical change happens it is a vicious circle.

[Oziex1]

A Developing Nation?

[NeverSure]

I don't think nurture can explain child prodigies.

Mozart performed on the piano at age 5 at the University of Salzburg and at the imperial court in Vienna the next year. LINK

Or -

Kim Ung-Yong—A guest physics student at age three

At the age of three, Kim Ung-Yong began taking courses as a guest physics student at Hanyang University in South Korea. By the age of eight, he was invited by NASA to study in the United States.

Born in 1962, Kim Ung-Yong is listed as having the highest IQ at 210 in the Guinness Book of World Records.

The young prodigy began speaking at four months old and merely two years later, he was able to read in Japanese, Korean, German and English.

I have said for a long time that I believe intelligence to be merely the ability to use education. In the 2 examples above I believe that they had extreme access to education.

No amount of education or nurture will make a Mozart by age 5 nor will it put a kid in university studying physics as a guest at age three.

It also won't make him so outstanding that NASA will invite him to the US to study at age 8. He was reading in four languages at age two.

There has to be something inherent in those kids for them to even be able to absorb an immense amount of nurture if that's what happened. You can't do that with just any kid.

[Srikcir]

Schools haven't had enough time for Prayut's 12 Values to take effect.

Maybe Prayut needs to invoke Article 44 and make IQ's increase!

[Brer Fox]

And their children, and their children, and their children, and their children........

Back to the Stone Age.

Low IQ with high fertility, a lethal combination for any country.

And I think you could add to that high infidelity as was reported recently.

[IMA_FARANG]

There is a common misconception hat I.Q. tests measure intelligence.

In fact they don't.

What I.O. tests actually measure is the ability of the individual to properly use the facts presented to them.... the I.Q. measures how the tested individual makes use of the information presented to him or her compared to the average individual.

What makes a person seem" more intelligent" or "less intelligent" is a learned ability..... the ability to make effective use of earned information in comparison to the norm......in short to "think".

Students can "improve" their I.O. scores when they are taught to make use of learned facts (information) and place that in a context with previously learned information.

That is what an I.Q. test actually measures.... the ability of an individual to use his or her acquired information by comparison to other similar individuals of the same age and experience

This is exactly why Thai students do so poorly on I.O. tests......learning to make practical use of information (I.Q) is an acquired ability...... and like any acquired activity it can be improved by practice.

Thai schools are notoriously bad in asking students to "think", or to ask the question, Why?

In fact asking , Why?. in a Thai school is actively discouraged.

That right there, students being actively discouraged from asking "Why?" is at the very heart of low I.Q. scores for Thai students... "thinking', or making the active use of learned information, which is what an I.Q. test measures.

[ttthailand]

Add noise to that list as a problem. The noise that goes on in the villages late into the evening would make anyone stupid after awhile. I once lived in a place called Non Ding Deang in Buriram. A local opened a bar right in the middle of town and blasted music until all hours of the night. The local government did nothing as one official had interest in the place. I could not sleep and eventually got out of there, for other reasons also... Everyone in the neighborhood hated the noise and could not sleep so I am sure the children also were affected.

Also look at the events and wakes blasting music all night. Volume should be turned down after 9:00 pm and off after 11:00 pm in all outdoor areas. Inside where noise can not be heard is not a problem but no one should have to loose sleep due to others.

This has to have some affect on the IQ level and my guess is that it is major.

Edited May 28, 2015 by ttthailand

[Brer Fox]

I don't think nurture can explain child prodigies.

Mozart performed on the piano at age 5 at the University of Salzburg and at the imperial court in Vienna the next year. LINK

Or -

Kim Ung-Yong—A guest physics student at age three

At the age of three, Kim Ung-Yong began taking courses as a guest physics student at Hanyang University in South Korea. By the age of eight, he was invited by NASA to study in the United States.

Born in 1962, Kim Ung-Yong is listed as having the highest IQ at 210 in the Guinness Book of World Records.

The young prodigy began speaking at four months old and merely two years later, he was able to read in Japanese, Korean, German and English.

Question:

Were is the link though to IQ?

I had a friend with an iq of 200 but he was as dumb as a post.

Oh yes, he was a very quick thinker and would be first in with any answer but he couldn't do anything.

For example making an espresso coffee was beyond him.

I have said for a long time that I believe intelligence to be merely the ability to use education. In the 2 examples above I believe that they had extreme access to education.

On the other side of the scale is how many taxi drivers there are today with Masters degrees or Doctorates. Plenty of education but no intelligence.

I agree but you say "plenty of education". I think maybe you mean "certification" of plenty of education which can be a contradiction to the true meaning of education.

[Ichabod]

I think IQ is largely genetic. I think "gifts" are too such as art, music, math, etc. Educating someone who's gifted is another story. Trying to nurture or educate someone who isn't gifted isn't going to create a Beethoven.

Well, you think wrong. Psychologists generally regard intelligence as between 50% and 80% heritable based on studies of separated twins, for example. (By comparison, longevity is believed to be about 30% heritable.) However, some studies indicate that among the poor heritability drops to zero, meaning that environmental factors (obstacles in the case of the poor) dominate. Among the rich, the opposite is true.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Ichabod

[Thakkar]

Twenty minutes a day of reading to children in the 1st four years of their life (don't worry they can't understand it initially) will increase their IQ by more than 20 points. This was told to me two and a half years ago when I was expecting my second daughter and I met a Professor with a PhD in 'Early Child development.at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital.

I took it to heart and my now not quite 2 and a 1/2 yr old can already recognise entire words, say her ABC's flawlessly all the way to Z and count to 20 no trouble at all... not to mention hold a pretty decent conversation in either of two languages! Food for thought.

Knowing the alphabet at age two:

If the child learned it as a song and enjoys singing it, great.

As a collection of random 26 sounds that have no relevance to the child's current life to be memorized for its own sake, bad idea.

Why spend days teaching her something irrelevant to her current needs when you can wait till she's three and tech it to her in an hour?

At two better to teach her how to get off the sofa without falling over. That's relevant to her needs.

Reading to the child whether they "get" the story or not: always a great idea. It's wonderful entertainment for both parent and child, instills a love of books and strengthens the parent-child bond.

I'm no PhD, but that's my two cents.

T

[Thakkar]

Thai fathers who go AWOL as soon as GF/wife develops a baby bulge aid and abet this downward spiral. They continue to sow their seed and move on like busy bees fertilising flowers. Farangs come along and cream off the honey.

Those honeys were creamed already. That's how they got pregnant in the first place. I think you meant to say "clean off" and not "cream off"

T

[maoro2013]

My understanding is that IQ is largely inherited.

It is still interesting why it may be dropping.

IQ tests are nit all that god anyway, increasingly poor education may have something to do with it, as the questions on these tests need to be interpreted by the testee, and depending on the tests the student may not have the skills to do that.

In different parts of the world this fact is recognised, so the IQ tests take different forms.

[h90]

Less than a year ago a study involving 6000 pairs of twins ( http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2014/10/genes-dont-just-influence-your-iq-they-determine-how-well-you-do-school) showed a strong genetic basis for IQ level - can't quite see how extra cuddles will overcome that apparent deficiency here in Thailand.................

That is soooo political incorrect....but true

[Strangebrew]

I won't make lite on this topic because I was raised to understand that you get out of life what you put in to it. I feel if the kids were taught in a manner that to get to next grade higher you must earn it. But I learned here in Thailand teachers are ordered to pass all students no matter what. So if Somchai is studying hard and learning the best he can get's an "A" now let's say The somknucklehead Scratches his butt and picks his nose all day text's on phone and just generally take's up space in class gets a "C" and passes to next grade then why should Somchai try hard then?

[h90]

My understanding is that IQ is largely inherited.

It is still interesting why it may be dropping.

IQ tests are nit all that god anyway, increasingly poor education may have something to do with it, as the questions on these tests need to be interpreted by the testee, and depending on the tests the student may not have the skills to do that.

In different parts of the world this fact is recognised, so the IQ tests take different forms.

Two problems: stupid people get lots of children, smart one, just 1, 2 or none. But that is a long term problem.

The other problem the brain needs training, like a muscle.

How strong you are is determined by your genetic, by your food and how much you train. Considering that the food has not much influence it is the training. Maybe sitting from early morning till night in front of the TV with soap operas isn't the best thing.

[wabothai]

Yeah, why do kids always start screaming when they see a farang?

[h90]

Even if IQ and EQ levels are genetic any child should be allowed to reach their full potential with the right stimulation.

That stimulation begins at several places:

At home where parents (or grandparents) need to spend time with the kids, read for the kids, play with the kids using toys that stimulates creative processes and feed them nutritious meals instead of sausages from 7-11 or other chemical rich foods. Basically put an interest in the kids' general well being instead of gossiping with the village.

In schools where early years teachers has to provide a simulating learning environment without beating the crap out of the kids.

I think it is safe to say that those situations are not present in may rural areas and systems to support a positive change of the situation are non-existent - e.g. support and guidance for grandparents taking care of kids - grandparents who perhaps never saw much education themselves. Those systems need to be built up (intelligently) first.

The current state of quality of life for Thai children (family structure, education, upbringing, health) is something that has been pointed out many times on fora - I fear a generation is already lost and unless radical change happens it is a vicious circle.

But reach their full potential with the right stimulation means that it is very hard to for the child. A lot pressure, always overload them. Like a bodybuilder or an Tour de France bicycle racer it needs hard training many hours per day so it really gets maximum. And of course the parents and the kids are lazy.

[ThaiUser]

An IQ test for children is only a comparison how smart a kid is compared to others. That smartness depends on the input and attention the child has received from infant age and it is not a reflection of the potential it can achieve when properly nurtured.

With regret I have to say that we don’t have systems in this country that can be compared to western countries that offer parents to take paternity leave when a child is born. Here parents have to return as soon as possible to work after a child has been born because they need the money. The need of the child and one of the most important phases in its development is ignored.

[ThaiUser]

My understanding is that IQ is largely inherited.

It is still interesting why it may be dropping.

IQ tests are nit all that god anyway, increasingly poor education may have something to do with it, as the questions on these tests need to be interpreted by the testee, and depending on the tests the student may not have the skills to do that.

In different parts of the world this fact is recognised, so the IQ tests take different forms.

Two problems: stupid people get lots of children, smart one, just 1, 2 or none. But that is a long term problem.

The other problem the brain needs training, like a muscle.

How strong you are is determined by your genetic, by your food and how much you train. Considering that the food has not much influence it is the training. Maybe sitting from early morning till night in front of the TV with soap operas isn't the best thing.

Looking at some of the comments here I guess that the writers grew up in families with lots of siblings and that includes you. Your last sentence only shows how serious you take your thesis ‘Maybe sitting from early morning till night in front of the TV with soap operas isn't the best thing’ since I don’t now many people in rural regions of our country who could afford that.

[elgordo38]

I would venture to say that this result does not show the true IQ of the kids.

I suggest that it shows the result of lazy brains...brains that have not been nurtured at home because dumb parents think it's the government's responsibility to teach their kids, and brains that have been mollycoddled at school/early childhood learning. It's all about being cute or spoiled or sanuk.

Hugs are not the answer.....in fact hugs is a dangerous suggestion as far as getting a better result. Hugs are very good....but suggesting that hugs will make the kids smarter will only perpetuate the problem.

Television has become the main entertainment for children at home not information from parents. Throw in the fact that children are getting mobiles at a younger age every year. Its the reason velcro has replaced shoe laces.

[Muirton]

That problem is nought compared to the I.Q. drop in the current government.

[mango66]

rural and Jungle country, what you expect more ?

or you want compete with a black continent ??

how much have the lovely animals which like babnanas so much ?

But for RTP and GVT officials still enough !!

[mango66]

That problem is nought compared to the I.Q. drop in the current government.

oh yes !1 you are genious !

Corruption and crime like Thaksin is High Q for Thailands understanding !!

[mango66]

My understanding is that IQ is largely inherited.

It is still interesting why it may be dropping.

IQ tests are nit all that god anyway, increasingly poor education may have something to do with it, as the questions on these tests need to be interpreted by the testee, and depending on the tests the student may not have the skills to do that.

In different parts of the world this fact is recognised, so the IQ tests take different forms.

Two problems: stupid people get lots of children, smart one, just 1, 2 or none. But that is a long term problem.

The other problem the brain needs training, like a muscle.

How strong you are is determined by your genetic, by your food and how much you train. Considering that the food has not much influence it is the training. Maybe sitting from early morning till night in front of the TV with soap operas isn't the best thing.

therefore we need many which are used with rice farming,

and thaksin like them,

zhey know rice farming ( to know the wight they dont need, thaksins officer knows to measure and do the paperwork for them;

All what they have to know is. electionday is 500,- thb day !!

[BigBadGeordie]

rural and Jungle country, what you expect more ?

or you want compete with a black continent ??

how much have the lovely animals which like babnanas so much ?

But for RTP and GVT officials still enough !!

What The Fluck does this mean?