Democrat beats Pheu Thai in popularity voting

[jesimps]

Now we can really understand what a farce these polls are......a complete fiction devised in someone's small, immature mind!!

Yep, I fully agree, these polls are a crock of s##T.

But..............................I bet if the poll went the other way and PTP were the most popular there would be lots of red/PTP supporters with small, immature minds all over it like a cheap suit, agreeing with the results.

You people are so fickle.

Well, we don't know there is anything wrong with the poll. It may be perfect. But what we do know is that there was a very high non-response rate. High enough to mean the data presented is meaningless in determining actual public preference. I might think that PT supporters would be more likely to self-censor, but the real point it that I cannot know that from this poll. It could be that 75% support the Democrats, or it could be that 70% support PT, or it could be anything in between. We just cannot know.

This is one of the problems with polling in Thailand, as this data is presented as meaningful, whereas anyone with the faintest familiarity with statistics knows this cannot be.

Most polls are plus or minus a few percent but I have a feeling in this one the swing could be in the double digits.

And I would like to take a large bet with you that there would be no swing at all, in fact a bigger majority for PTP. Alas, I can see the Juntacrats impeaching the entire party so the yellows will only be facing the odds and sods.

[mikemac]

Now we can really understand what a farce these polls are......a complete fiction devised in someone's small, immature mind!!

Yep, I fully agree, these polls are a crock of s##T.

But..............................I bet if the poll went the other way and PTP were the most popular there would be lots of red/PTP supporters with small, immature minds all over it like a cheap suit, agreeing with the results.

You people are so fickle.

Hey, Mike, you seem to forget that so many of us are not PTP supporters but that we can still recognize that what ever PTP-reincarnation comes out of the current purge will do very well in the polls.

To be honest, one could have a lively debate on whether the PTP is so loved or whether the Dems are just so feeble...

Personally, I come down on the "feeble-Dems" side...

Your comment makes me think that every now and again we should let our fellow posters know where we stand.

I have no time whatsoever for the PTP, but I figure you already worked that out. But That does not not automatically make me a Democrat supporter. And I do agree with you for a change, I also see them as being feeble and not a good alternative to the PTP.

I have never been a Democrat supporter but have often been accused of being one.

I recently posted on another topic that I would like to see the political slate cleaned and remove both the Democrats and the PTP from Thai politics and start again with all the other parties.

I am not so sure whether the PTP are so loved any more but the only way to find out is to hold elections and see if their bread crumbs and hollow promises get them back into the peoples' hearts.

If it were up to me, for the good of the country, I would ban the lot of them after the disaster they were last time they were in power, considering the rice scheme, the amnesty bill, and a host of broken promises and mismanagement.

And lastly, the only thing I have praised the Military for is that there have been no killings on the streets, by either political side, since the coup started. Yet I have been often accused of being a "ass licking junta lover" among other things.

Some posters seem to think by labeling someone a junta supporter they have automatically won the argument.

Once and for all, I am not a junta supporter and would be quite happy if the coup/s never happened at all.

[diehard60]

" 63.0% said corruption suppression, while 48.3% mentioned the resolving of disunity in the country, and 30.4% gave cited performance in tackling human rights abuses, and human trafficking."

63.0 + 48.3 + 30.4 = 141.7 % WOW!!!!!!

[Thailand]

Surely the current incumbents are working to ensure that even if there is ever a vote the PTP under whatever guise will not have a chance to win?

If there is an "election" sometime I don't see any change in the current power base.

[billd766]

Now we can really understand what a farce these polls are......a complete fiction devised in someone's small, immature mind!!

Yep, I fully agree, these polls are a crock of s##T.

But..............................I bet if the poll went the other way and PTP were the most popular there would be lots of red/PTP supporters with small, immature minds all over it like a cheap suit, agreeing with the results.

You people are so fickle.

Hey, Mike, you seem to forget that so many of us are not PTP supporters but that we can still recognize that what ever PTP-reincarnation comes out of the current purge will do very well in the polls.

To be honest, one could have a lively debate on whether the PTP is so loved or whether the Dems are just so feeble...

Personally, I come down on the "feeble-Dems" side...

It is not often that I agree with you but TBH if the Democrats under Abhisit and their current party leaders were the only party allowed to vote, I am not too sure if they could win.

What the Democrats have long needed is a replacement for Abhisit and a totally new party leadership committee. Abhisit is a nice guy but an election winner he isn't. When he stood down last time and then was voted back in he should have refused.

[billd766]

There appears to be around 40% missing. Is that for some new party waiting to come out into the open?

Could they be the "Don't knows" ?

I think that they are from the "Do know but not telling" party.

[DM07]

So with everything between 60 and 99 % being happy with the current PM and more people being in favor of the "Democrats" rather than PTP, the soon called election will be a walk in the park.

Let's do it, guys!

[Nobb]

Thansin will never run out of money. These people are the ones who grew up with there parents under his wing. Do not vote Democrat or Pheu Thai please vote for the best person!

[tbthailand]

Now we can really understand what a farce these polls are......a complete fiction devised in someone's small, immature mind!!

Yep, I fully agree, these polls are a crock of s##T.

But..............................I bet if the poll went the other way and PTP were the most popular there would be lots of red/PTP supporters with small, immature minds all over it like a cheap suit, agreeing with the results.

You people are so fickle.

Hey, Mike, you seem to forget that so many of us are not PTP supporters but that we can still recognize that what ever PTP-reincarnation comes out of the current purge will do very well in the polls.

To be honest, one could have a lively debate on whether the PTP is so loved or whether the Dems are just so feeble...

Personally, I come down on the "feeble-Dems" side...

Your comment makes me think that every now and again we should let our fellow posters know where we stand.

I have no time whatsoever for the PTP, but I figure you already worked that out. But That does not not automatically make me a Democrat supporter. And I do agree with you for a change, I also see them as being feeble and not a good alternative to the PTP.

I have never been a Democrat supporter but have often been accused of being one.

I recently posted on another topic that I would like to see the political slate cleaned and remove both the Democrats and the PTP from Thai politics and start again with all the other parties.

I am not so sure whether the PTP are so loved any more but the only way to find out is to hold elections and see if their bread crumbs and hollow promises get them back into the peoples' hearts.

If it were up to me, for the good of the country, I would ban the lot of them after the disaster they were last time they were in power, considering the rice scheme, the amnesty bill, and a host of broken promises and mismanagement.

And lastly, the only thing I have praised the Military for is that there have been no killings on the streets, by either political side, since the coup started. Yet I have been often accused of being a "ass licking junta lover" among other things.

Some posters seem to think by labeling someone a junta supporter they have automatically won the argument.

Once and for all, I am not a junta supporter and would be quite happy if the coup/s never happened at all.

well, it is taking a long time, but we might find common ground after all

Let's have some fun with this...

so first of all, it's "junta-hugger" and not ... well, your term. Junta-hugger is so much more "warm and fuzzy"...

so the Dems are feeble... I tend to think of them as politically impotent, strategic idiots, or ... feeble.

and it is true that if you are labeled a "junta supporter" then you have officially just lost the argument. of course the same is true once you have been named a red shirt supporter.

on a bit more serious note...

I wouldn't ban them all, but if you are sitting in jail, it is harder to win an election. I, like most everyone, recognize the pervasive problem of corruption - not only in politics - and I would love to see more and more transparency, access to information, an investigative press, and appropriate prosecution. That's asking for a lot since IMO none of that exists in any significant way in Thailand today (not only after the coup, but before it as well...) ... (ah, yes, also, there was some investigative press, but they tended to get sued, or worse, ... shot... )

Also, the violence was never acceptable. We would probably have a lively discussion on any given incident, but you know my point of departure - among all the violent players on the Thai scene today, the military takes the cake... Hands down.

As for the PTP/PPP/TRT, etc, it seems obvious to me that the popularity of this party is due more to the political awakening of the general public, and especially in Issan and the North where their popularity is strongest. It seems to me that there is significant opportunity for any party to create a platform that appeals to the broader Thai society and that it doesn't need to be a Thaksin party. It also doesn't need to be geographically limited. I think that it could be argued that the PTP is so much more popular than other parties because they have the field to themselves.

bottom line for me on politics is that I would rather have a civilian government that represents the will of the people than a military government that represents their own interests.

[tbthailand]

Now we can really understand what a farce these polls are......a complete fiction devised in someone's small, immature mind!!

Yep, I fully agree, these polls are a crock of s##T.

But..............................I bet if the poll went the other way and PTP were the most popular there would be lots of red/PTP supporters with small, immature minds all over it like a cheap suit, agreeing with the results.

You people are so fickle.

Hey, Mike, you seem to forget that so many of us are not PTP supporters but that we can still recognize that what ever PTP-reincarnation comes out of the current purge will do very well in the polls.

To be honest, one could have a lively debate on whether the PTP is so loved or whether the Dems are just so feeble...

Personally, I come down on the "feeble-Dems" side...

It is not often that I agree with you but TBH if the Democrats under Abhisit and their current party leaders were the only party allowed to vote, I am not too sure if they could win.

What the Democrats have long needed is a replacement for Abhisit and a totally new party leadership committee. Abhisit is a nice guy but an election winner he isn't. When he stood down last time and then was voted back in he should have refused.

When he stood down last time and then was voted back in he should have refused.

I thought exactly the same thing...

[billd766]

Thansin will never run out of money. These people are the ones who grew up with there parents under his wing. Do not vote Democrat or Pheu Thai please vote for the best person!

Very few of us on TVF actually can vote.

Also on the voting slip, for the vote to be legal you have to vote for one of the political parties standing in that constituency. If only the PTP (or their next transformation) and the Democrats are the only 2 parties listed who do you vote for? There are many more rural constituencies in Thailand than city constituencies and less parties to vote for out here than in the cities.

[billd766]

Hey, Mike, you seem to forget that so many of us are not PTP supporters but that we can still recognize that what ever PTP-reincarnation comes out of the current purge will do very well in the polls.

To be honest, one could have a lively debate on whether the PTP is so loved or whether the Dems are just so feeble...

Personally, I come down on the "feeble-Dems" side...

Your comment makes me think that every now and again we should let our fellow posters know where we stand.

I have no time whatsoever for the PTP, but I figure you already worked that out. But That does not not automatically make me a Democrat supporter. And I do agree with you for a change, I also see them as being feeble and not a good alternative to the PTP.

I have never been a Democrat supporter but have often been accused of being one.

I recently posted on another topic that I would like to see the political slate cleaned and remove both the Democrats and the PTP from Thai politics and start again with all the other parties.

I am not so sure whether the PTP are so loved any more but the only way to find out is to hold elections and see if their bread crumbs and hollow promises get them back into the peoples' hearts.

If it were up to me, for the good of the country, I would ban the lot of them after the disaster they were last time they were in power, considering the rice scheme, the amnesty bill, and a host of broken promises and mismanagement.

And lastly, the only thing I have praised the Military for is that there have been no killings on the streets, by either political side, since the coup started. Yet I have been often accused of being a "ass licking junta lover" among other things.

Some posters seem to think by labeling someone a junta supporter they have automatically won the argument.

Once and for all, I am not a junta supporter and would be quite happy if the coup/s never happened at all.

well, it is taking a long time, but we might find common ground after all

Let's have some fun with this...

so first of all, it's "junta-hugger" and not ... well, your term. Junta-hugger is so much more "warm and fuzzy"...

so the Dems are feeble... I tend to think of them as politically impotent, strategic idiots, or ... feeble.

and it is true that if you are labeled a "junta supporter" then you have officially just lost the argument. of course the same is true once you have been named a red shirt supporter.

on a bit more serious note...

I wouldn't ban them all, but if you are sitting in jail, it is harder to win an election. I, like most everyone, recognize the pervasive problem of corruption - not only in politics - and I would love to see more and more transparency, access to information, an investigative press, and appropriate prosecution. That's asking for a lot since IMO none of that exists in any significant way in Thailand today (not only after the coup, but before it as well...) ... (ah, yes, also, there was some investigative press, but they tended to get sued, or worse, ... shot... )

Also, the violence was never acceptable. We would probably have a lively discussion on any given incident, but you know my point of departure - among all the violent players on the Thai scene today, the military takes the cake... Hands down.

As for the PTP/PPP/TRT, etc, it seems obvious to me that the popularity of this party is due more to the political awakening of the general public, and especially in Issan and the North where their popularity is strongest. It seems to me that there is significant opportunity for any party to create a platform that appeals to the broader Thai society and that it doesn't need to be a Thaksin party. It also doesn't need to be geographically limited. I think that it could be argued that the PTP is so much more popular than other parties because they have the field to themselves.

bottom line for me on politics is that I would rather have a civilian government that represents the will of the people than a military government that represents their own interests.

What I would really like to see is the UDD become a political party with proper elections for the party leadership and then it can go out on its own representing the people of Issan. The main problem I see with that is down to money and backers. The TRT, PPP and TRT were all backed with Thaksins money and he wants full control over it which I suppose is fair does, but if the UDD could get the financial backing plus some (relatively) clean people to become MPs and sponsors who knows where that may lead to.

If the Democrats could be persuaded to dump Abhisit and the fossils in the party leadership and bring in fresh younger new blood they could also be in with a good chance.

I feel that both the Democrats and a Thaksin party as they are at the present would be like the film "Back to the Future Past" and just another rerun of what has landed Thailand here in the first place. He said, she said, but but but............. Thailand and it people deserve far more than they have had since 1932.

Whilst I can accept the military government considering the alternative a year ago it really isn't the best way to go but at this point I don't think that there is any real or better alternative.

[tbthailand]

Hey, Mike, you seem to forget that so many of us are not PTP supporters but that we can still recognize that what ever PTP-reincarnation comes out of the current purge will do very well in the polls.

To be honest, one could have a lively debate on whether the PTP is so loved or whether the Dems are just so feeble...

Personally, I come down on the "feeble-Dems" side...

Your comment makes me think that every now and again we should let our fellow posters know where we stand.

I have no time whatsoever for the PTP, but I figure you already worked that out. But That does not not automatically make me a Democrat supporter. And I do agree with you for a change, I also see them as being feeble and not a good alternative to the PTP.

I have never been a Democrat supporter but have often been accused of being one.

I recently posted on another topic that I would like to see the political slate cleaned and remove both the Democrats and the PTP from Thai politics and start again with all the other parties.

I am not so sure whether the PTP are so loved any more but the only way to find out is to hold elections and see if their bread crumbs and hollow promises get them back into the peoples' hearts.

If it were up to me, for the good of the country, I would ban the lot of them after the disaster they were last time they were in power, considering the rice scheme, the amnesty bill, and a host of broken promises and mismanagement.

And lastly, the only thing I have praised the Military for is that there have been no killings on the streets, by either political side, since the coup started. Yet I have been often accused of being a "ass licking junta lover" among other things.

Some posters seem to think by labeling someone a junta supporter they have automatically won the argument.

Once and for all, I am not a junta supporter and would be quite happy if the coup/s never happened at all.

well, it is taking a long time, but we might find common ground after all

Let's have some fun with this...

so first of all, it's "junta-hugger" and not ... well, your term. Junta-hugger is so much more "warm and fuzzy"...

so the Dems are feeble... I tend to think of them as politically impotent, strategic idiots, or ... feeble.

and it is true that if you are labeled a "junta supporter" then you have officially just lost the argument. of course the same is true once you have been named a red shirt supporter.

on a bit more serious note...

I wouldn't ban them all, but if you are sitting in jail, it is harder to win an election. I, like most everyone, recognize the pervasive problem of corruption - not only in politics - and I would love to see more and more transparency, access to information, an investigative press, and appropriate prosecution. That's asking for a lot since IMO none of that exists in any significant way in Thailand today (not only after the coup, but before it as well...) ... (ah, yes, also, there was some investigative press, but they tended to get sued, or worse, ... shot... )

Also, the violence was never acceptable. We would probably have a lively discussion on any given incident, but you know my point of departure - among all the violent players on the Thai scene today, the military takes the cake... Hands down.

As for the PTP/PPP/TRT, etc, it seems obvious to me that the popularity of this party is due more to the political awakening of the general public, and especially in Issan and the North where their popularity is strongest. It seems to me that there is significant opportunity for any party to create a platform that appeals to the broader Thai society and that it doesn't need to be a Thaksin party. It also doesn't need to be geographically limited. I think that it could be argued that the PTP is so much more popular than other parties because they have the field to themselves.

bottom line for me on politics is that I would rather have a civilian government that represents the will of the people than a military government that represents their own interests.

What I would really like to see is the UDD become a political party with proper elections for the party leadership and then it can go out on its own representing the people of Issan. The main problem I see with that is down to money and backers. The TRT, PPP and TRT were all backed with Thaksins money and he wants full control over it which I suppose is fair does, but if the UDD could get the financial backing plus some (relatively) clean people to become MPs and sponsors who knows where that may lead to.

If the Democrats could be persuaded to dump Abhisit and the fossils in the party leadership and bring in fresh younger new blood they could also be in with a good chance.

I feel that both the Democrats and a Thaksin party as they are at the present would be like the film "Back to the Future Past" and just another rerun of what has landed Thailand here in the first place. He said, she said, but but but............. Thailand and it people deserve far more than they have had since 1932.

Whilst I can accept the military government considering the alternative a year ago it really isn't the best way to go but at this point I don't think that there is any real or better alternative.

well, I agree with quite a few points, but I can't say that a military government is better than any of the alternatives.

At first I thought Prayuth was taking the county back to the 80's with a Prem model, now if feels more like the 60's and that doesn't make me feel hopeful for the future.

Another point which would be a great discussion but unfortunately one that cannot really be had in an open forum, is to look at why the May 22 coup happened and why at that time.