Us & Them

[mango66]

Thais cheat Thais as well. Foreigners just make it easier..my conclusion on this is that they come here ignore past experiences of other foreigners and think they know better.

Btw, my experience of the Thai laws and courts is that it's not prejudiced against foreigners but against Thais also who do not have connections , wealth etc..or a good laYes you are right, Thais also cheating Thais,

Yes yoiu are right, thais also cheating thais !

And on court !

You have the neccasery cash and the right lawyer, you will be the winner,

never mind Thai or farong,

just for farongs prices are higher !!

[lostoday]

There are many factors other than economics to live anywhere. Climate, politics, access to things and ideas that you are interested in such as art or hobbies.

Availability of things you need to either work or enjoy. Do you like the food? If you loved going to concerts and music events, Chiang Rai would offer bugger all. Personally, moving to Thailand restored my creative spirit and that's mainly why I'm here. Inspiration. Some people are here strictly for money reasons and many hate the people and the country. That is sad.

Take one thing. Climate. If you like cold you can live in Siberia or Vail Colorado. Money.

Access to things is almost always determined by money isn't it? I can go to a museum to see a Monet or I can buy one.

If I liked going to concerts and lived in Chiang Rai I could fly my private plane to Bangkok in a few minutes. Money.

I can't afford to fly my Thai women to the South of France so I live in Thailand and import the wine. Money

It's some kind of sliding scale after you get food then you want something else Maslow's hierarchy of needs I think is the name. I always get stuck in the love stage.

Edited June 8, 2015 by lostoday

[pigeonjake]

Yep. Pattaya is very much "Us and Them"

Thai Culture and Western Cultures are so far apart. And will drift further apart with time.

I travelled a lot in Africa too !

Thailand is in mind like this 3rd world countries, Jungle people !

Just outside it is a little bit polished up by farongs and corruption;

otherwise: a 3rd world country in gens, ethiks, minds, behavier and education !!

i take it from your last 3 posts that you like thailand and thais then?,,,lol

[weegee]

Yep. Pattaya is very much "Us and Them"

Thai Culture and Western Cultures are so far apart. And will drift further apart with time.

I travelled a lot in Africa too !

Thailand is in mind like this 3rd world countries, Jungle people !

Just outside it is a little bit polished up by farongs and corruption;

otherwise: a 3rd world country in gens, ethiks, minds, behavier and education !!

i take it from your last 3 posts that you like thailand and thais then?,,,lol

Hope he has blood pressure pills on hand...Someone must have upset him while driving today.....

[Fab5BKK]

Yep. Pattaya is very much "Us and Them"

Thai Culture and Western Cultures are so far apart. And will drift further apart with time.

I travelled a lot in Africa too !

Thailand is in mind like this 3rd world countries, Jungle people !

Just outside it is a little bit polished up by farongs and corruption;

otherwise: a 3rd world country in gens, ethiks, minds, behavier and education !!

Big difference between travelling in Africa and working in Africa...

I worked in Africa (based in East Africa and covering the whole sub Saharan Africa) and I can tell you that Thailand (and SEA) is much better than Africa!

[duanebigsby]

There are many factors other than economics to live anywhere. Climate, politics, access to things and ideas that you are interested in such as art or hobbies.

Availability of things you need to either work or enjoy. Do you like the food? If you loved going to concerts and music events, Chiang Rai would offer bugger all. Personally, moving to Thailand restored my creative spirit and that's mainly why I'm here. Inspiration. Some people are here strictly for money reasons and many hate the people and the country. That is sad.

Take one thing. Climate. If you like cold you can live in Siberia or Vail Colorado. Money.

Access to things is almost always determined by money isn't it? I can go to a museum to see a Monet or I can buy one.

If I liked going to concerts and lived in Chiang Rai I could fly my private plane to Bangkok in a few minutes. Money.

I can't afford to fly my Thai women to the South of France so I live in Thailand and import the wine. Money

It's some kind of sliding scale after you get food then you want something else Maslow's hierarchy of needs I think is the name. I always get stuck in the love stage.

You are obviously going to twist this conversation so it's all about the money.

Life is more than money for most people. Fine if you don't think so.

I'm not in Thailand because it's cheaper. If I wanted cheap I could live in Barhead, Alberta or Estevan, Saskatchewan just as cheaply.

Why are you talking about private jets and being super wealthy. I'm not rich, but I could still live anywhere I wanted and many other factors

influence my choice.

[SpokaneAl]

There are many factors other than economics to live anywhere. Climate, politics, access to things and ideas that you are interested in such as art or hobbies.

Availability of things you need to either work or enjoy. Do you like the food? If you loved going to concerts and music events, Chiang Rai would offer bugger all. Personally, moving to Thailand restored my creative spirit and that's mainly why I'm here. Inspiration. Some people are here strictly for money reasons and many hate the people and the country. That is sad.

Take one thing. Climate. If you like cold you can live in Siberia or Vail Colorado. Money.

Access to things is almost always determined by money isn't it? I can go to a museum to see a Monet or I can buy one.

If I liked going to concerts and lived in Chiang Rai I could fly my private plane to Bangkok in a few minutes. Money.

I can't afford to fly my Thai women to the South of France so I live in Thailand and import the wine. Money

It's some kind of sliding scale after you get food then you want something else Maslow's hierarchy of needs I think is the name. I always get stuck in the love stage.

You are obviously going to twist this conversation so it's all about the money.

Life is more than money for most people. Fine if you don't think so.

I'm not in Thailand because it's cheaper. If I wanted cheap I could live in Barhead, Alberta or Estevan, Saskatchewan just as cheaply.

Why are you talking about private jets and being super wealthy. I'm not rich, but I could still live anywhere I wanted and many other factors

influence my choice.

They could offer me a free home and land in North Dakota and I would say no. So while of course private jets and the like are out of our price range, and cost will be a limiting factor for many idyllic places on my list, there are certainly enough other choices that would meet our lifestyle needs just fine without needing to move to a third world country just because we could afford no where else. If that was the case, I think I would consider my life to be, for the most part, a sad failure. Edited June 8, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[pigeonjake]

i dont consider thailand 3rd world,

[JLCrab]

There are many factors other than economics to live anywhere. Climate, politics, access to things and ideas that you are interested in such as art or hobbies.

Availability of things you need to either work or enjoy. Do you like the food? If you loved going to concerts and music events, Chiang Rai would offer bugger all. Personally, moving to Thailand restored my creative spirit and that's mainly why I'm here. Inspiration. Some people are here strictly for money reasons and many hate the people and the country. That is sad.

Take one thing. Climate. If you like cold you can live in Siberia or Vail Colorado. Money.

Access to things is almost always determined by money isn't it? I can go to a museum to see a Monet or I can buy one.

If I liked going to concerts and lived in Chiang Rai I could fly my private plane to Bangkok in a few minutes. Money.

I can't afford to fly my Thai women to the South of France so I live in Thailand and import the wine. Money

It's some kind of sliding scale after you get food then you want something else Maslow's hierarchy of needs I think is the name. I always get stuck in the love stage.

You are obviously going to twist this conversation so it's all about the money.

Life is more than money for most people. Fine if you don't think so.

I'm not in Thailand because it's cheaper. If I wanted cheap I could live in Barhead, Alberta or Estevan, Saskatchewan just as cheaply.

Why are you talking about private jets and being super wealthy. I'm not rich, but I could still live anywhere I wanted and many other factors

influence my choice.

They could offer me a free home and land in North Dakota and I would say no. So while of course private jets and the like are out of our price range, and cost will be a limiting factor for many idyllic places on my list, there are certainly enough other choices that would meet our lifestyle needs just fine without needing to move to a third world country just because we could afford no where else. If that was the case, I think I would consider my life to be, for the most part, a sad failure.

They could offer me a free home and land in North Dakota and I would say no For me, that would depend whether the sub-surface mineral rights were included.

[lostoday]

Take one thing. Climate. If you like cold you can live in Siberia or Vail Colorado. Money.

Access to things is almost always determined by money isn't it? I can go to a museum to see a Monet or I can buy one.

If I liked going to concerts and lived in Chiang Rai I could fly my private plane to Bangkok in a few minutes. Money.

I can't afford to fly my Thai women to the South of France so I live in Thailand and import the wine. Money

It's some kind of sliding scale after you get food then you want something else Maslow's hierarchy of needs I think is the name. I always get stuck in the love stage.

You are obviously going to twist this conversation so it's all about the money.

Life is more than money for most people. Fine if you don't think so.

I'm not in Thailand because it's cheaper. If I wanted cheap I could live in Barhead, Alberta or Estevan, Saskatchewan just as cheaply.

Why are you talking about private jets and being super wealthy. I'm not rich, but I could still live anywhere I wanted and many other factors

influence my choice.

They could offer me a free home and land in North Dakota and I would say no. So while of course private jets and the like are out of our price range, and cost will be a limiting factor for many idyllic places on my list, there are certainly enough other choices that would meet our lifestyle needs just fine without needing to move to a third world country just because we could afford no where else. If that was the case, I think I would consider my life to be, for the most part, a sad failure.

They could offer me a free home and land in North Dakota and I would say no For me, that would depend whether the sub-surface mineral rights were included.

Of course you are correct. It's always about money. I'm not twisting anything.

I believe the Shah of Iran used to have his pizzas flown by private jet from Chicago to Iran.

Thailand is cheap and has lots pretty women and small feminine men. It works for me.

[rayongchelsea]

i dont consider thailand 3rd world,

It's institutions are. The police, the courts, the education system, health ( non private), contract law, the way company employees are treated.

It maybe classed as developing in other areas.

[nontabury]

i dont consider thailand 3rd world,

Some parts are,other areas make parts of the UK look 3rd world. However I think if you look at the Thai population,there are many people(not all) who do have the mentality of a 3rd world country, mainly that they accept without question what they have been Indoctrinated to believe.

[lostoday]

i dont consider thailand 3rd world,

It's institutions are. The police, the courts, the education system, health ( non private), contract law, the way company employees are treated.

It maybe classed as developing in other areas.

Did you take a look at the new mall in Rayong? I'm assuming you live in Rayong.

[MaeJoMTB]

These discussions almost always seem to divert to a discussion where the poster moved to Thailand primarily, if not purely, for economic reasons. While economics are a fact of life for virtually all of us, and the world is certainly not my oyster, my wife and I do enjoy our time in Thailand, and I must admit that I would find it a bit depressing if that was the predominate driver for living in Thailand vs. where we would really prefer to live.

I'd prefer to live in San Francisco, just over the bridge near to Muir Woods.

But sadly I'm not a multi-millionaire.

[MaeJoMTB]

i dont consider thailand 3rd world,

Well unless they joined NATO or the Soviet Bloc while I wasn't looking, they are.

[duanebigsby]

You are obviously going to twist this conversation so it's all about the money.

Life is more than money for most people. Fine if you don't think so.

I'm not in Thailand because it's cheaper. If I wanted cheap I could live in Barhead, Alberta or Estevan, Saskatchewan just as cheaply.

Why are you talking about private jets and being super wealthy. I'm not rich, but I could still live anywhere I wanted and many other factors

influence my choice.

They could offer me a free home and land in North Dakota and I would say no. So while of course private jets and the like are out of our price range, and cost will be a limiting factor for many idyllic places on my list, there are certainly enough other choices that would meet our lifestyle needs just fine without needing to move to a third world country just because we could afford no where else. If that was the case, I think I would consider my life to be, for the most part, a sad failure.

They could offer me a free home and land in North Dakota and I would say no For me, that would depend whether the sub-surface mineral rights were included.

Of course you are correct. It's always about money. I'm not twisting anything.

I believe the Shah of Iran used to have his pizzas flown by private jet from Chicago to Iran.

Thailand is cheap and has lots pretty women and small feminine men. It works for me.

If it's always about the money why aren't you living in Sudan, Somalia, Haiti, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, India etc, all of which are much cheaper than Thailand. So what? The Shah was a filthy rich dictator. Anyone with a modest amount of money can live in most of the world. We choose where we live based on many more things than the money. Choosing solely on money is pathetic.

[fey]

I think experiences such as these are for the maladjusted. Ex-pats or locals. Ex-pats and locals. People not thinking about money and or sex all the time, will not have many of the experiences shared here on TV. They won't need them. They're normal, mature , comfortable with themselves, adults. All shapes. sizes, colors and countries. Moving nicely through life.

A real weird lot of posters on this forum who continually bash the Thais ,The elite, the rich, the governmenmt and other posters of this forum. Maladusted and sad beings. Thank god i never meet them. I must live in a different world to them. I never have any such problems as many farangs seem to have whilst living here. I have been cheated by Farangs, but no Thais.

You may be surprised who you are in bed with over that next beer, or goofy barstool banter.

Sucka, I'm laughing at you over that beer and thinking things that are quite reprehensible as i listen to your weak excuses of manhood, failed dreams of glory and your next spurt of immortality in the form of a little white drop.

[Pundi6446]

It isn't just in banks, but everywhere you go,. there are always two prices for just about everything, especially the golf courses, Thai and Farang

[Neeranam]

Yep. Pattaya is very much "Us and Them"

Thai Culture and Western Cultures are so far apart. And will drift further apart with time.

There is one thing in common - desperate people from all over Thailand meet desperate people from the rest of the world. Pattaya is the city of deseration. Old men fooling themselves that young sexy farmgirls enjoy being with them.

The problem is that the foreigners have absolutely no interest in integrating into Thai society and the Thais hate them. Not only have they hit the bottom of the road but they must pretend that they actually like foreigners.

The only way to get rid of this "us and them" is to integrate - learn the language for starters and stand up for ourselves when discriminated against.

[Neeranam]

It isn't just in banks, but everywhere you go,. there are always two prices for just about everything, especially the golf courses, Thai and Farang

It's the same for Scottish golf courses - discount for the locals. Scottish universities have much larger fees for foreign students.

Same in the USA - locals get into Disneyland for less etc.

Where I live there is no two pricing on the golf courses. Try living in the real Thailand and out the tourist zone.

[MaeJoMTB]

It isn't just in banks, but everywhere you go,. there are always two prices for just about everything, especially the golf courses, Thai and Farang

It's the same for Scottish golf courses - discount for the locals. Scottish universities have much larger fees for foreign students.

Same in the USA - locals get into Disneyland for less etc.

Where I live there is no two pricing on the golf courses. Try living in the real Thailand and out the tourist zone.

But,

In the USA local isn't everyone white

In Thailand local is everyone Asian.

[rayongchelsea]

Yep. Pattaya is very much "Us and Them"

Thai Culture and Western Cultures are so far apart. And will drift further apart with time.

There is one thing in common - desperate people from all over Thailand meet desperate people from the rest of the world. Pattaya is the city of deseration. Old men fooling themselves that young sexy farmgirls enjoy being with them.

The problem is that the foreigners have absolutely no interest in integrating into Thai society and the Thais hate them. Not only have they hit the bottom of the road but they must pretend that they actually like foreigners.

The only way to get rid of this "us and them" is to integrate - learn the language for starters and stand up for ourselves when discriminated against.

Nothing to do with the thousands that go to pattaya. I find them more authentic in what they are doing than some who try to integrate, act "thaier than Thais.

There has always been a " barrier" the perception of the foreigner has always been there, just exacerbated and probably re- enforced by the fact that there are a lot more foreigners here now, some of dubious qualities.

I agree on the language and the self assertion, both of which I possess..I am less integrated now than I was 25 years ago..and I am very comfortable with that. I like Thailand, Thai wife, children etc..but I am a foreigner, just one who tries to be cultural sensitive and respectful..I will always be one of "us" as the Thais really will never see us as one of them..the exercise is therefore futile..just don't get frustrated by things..and having a lot of money helps...some just try to make a big deal of it and go as far to say they hate us..or don't like the word farang..the list is endless..which only re- enforces the divide..

[Asheron]

Yep. Pattaya is very much "Us and Them"

Thai Culture and Western Cultures are so far apart. And will drift further apart with time.

There is one thing in common - desperate people from all over Thailand meet desperate people from the rest of the world. Pattaya is the city of deseration. Old men fooling themselves that young sexy farmgirls enjoy being with them.

The problem is that the foreigners have absolutely no interest in integrating into Thai society and the Thais hate them. Not only have they hit the bottom of the road but they must pretend that they actually like foreigners.

The only way to get rid of this "us and them" is to integrate - learn the language for starters and stand up for ourselves when discriminated against.

Nothing to do with the thousands that go to pattaya. I find them more authentic in what they are doing than some who try to integrate, act "thaier than Thais.

There has always been a " barrier" the perception of the foreigner has always been there, just exacerbated and probably re- enforced by the fact that there are a lot more foreigners here now, some of dubious qualities.

I agree on the language and the self assertion, both of which I possess..I am less integrated now than I was 25 years ago..and I am very comfortable with that. I like Thailand, Thai wife, children etc..but I am a foreigner, just one who tries to be cultural sensitive and respectful..I will always be one of "us" as the Thais really will never see us as one of them..the exercise is therefore futile..just don't get frustrated by things..and having a lot of money helps...some just try to make a big deal of it and go as far to say they hate us..or don't like the word farang..the list is endless..which only re- enforces the divide..

Stop wasting your energi writing perfectly logical things like that... many on TV just don't get it. Many probably even think they are thai because they eat at "mama-noodles-cart".

[nontabury]

It isn't just in banks, but everywhere you go,. there are always two prices for just about everything, especially the golf courses, Thai and Farang

It's the same for Scottish golf courses - discount for the locals. Scottish universities have much larger fees for foreign students.

Same in the USA - locals get into Disneyland for less etc.

Where I live there is no two pricing on the golf courses. Try living in the real Thailand and out the tourist zone.

Not quite so,Scottish universities,while giving discounts to Scottish people,also give the same discount to other citizens of the EU, with the exception of those in the rest of the UK,but that's probably to do with the permanent block of wood on the shoulders of some Scottish people.

[Tomtomtom69]

Geez, it gets worse and worse by the day. When I used to work (briefly) as a real estate agent for Thailand's largest property developer, I was in charge of selling condos that were the same price for everyone. The only difference was in the conditions to purchase, seeing that most foreigners would not be eligible for a home loan (mortgage) and would need to pay in cash. So in that sense, Thais purchasing a condo on a mortgage would pay more because they would need to repay the interest on top of the principal borrowed.

But if dual pricing at national parks, various tourist attractions and rip off attempts by taxi drivers and tourism operators weren't already enough, banks and property developers are getting into the game now too? Geez...this is definitely a worsening trend.

To the OP - unless you come from the most sun deprived country in the world, living in Thailand mainly because of the sunshine is one bad reason to keep living here! Not to mention there are plenty of countries with at least as much, if not more sunshine than Thailand receives on average, but probably won't have a dual priced property market either!

You may want to reconsider your options.

[Naam]

Really weird when it comes from somwhere like a bank. You may want to consider that type of attitude and the safety of your funds when it comes to depositing a large amount for a retirement visa.

if you consider 800k Baht a "large" amount you should think twice wether you can afford to retire abroad. a serious accident which prevents you to take a flight to your home country to obtain free healthcare can wipe out 800k (cost of ICU 80-120k per day) in a week or two.

[Naam]

Geez, it gets worse and worse by the day. When I used to work (briefly) as a real estate agent for Thailand's largest property developer, I was in charge of selling condos that were the same price for everyone. The only difference was in the conditions to purchase, seeing that most foreigners would not be eligible for a home loan (mortgage) and would need to pay in cash. So in that sense, Thais purchasing a condo on a mortgage would pay more because they would need to repay the interest on top of the principal borrowed.

But if dual pricing at national parks, various tourist attractions and rip off attempts by taxi drivers and tourism operators weren't already enough, banks and property developers are getting into the game now too? Geez...this is definitely a worsening trend.

To the OP - unless you come from the most sun deprived country in the world, living in Thailand mainly because of the sunshine is one bad reason to keep living here! Not to mention there are plenty of countries with at least as much, if not more sunshine than Thailand receives on average, but probably won't have a dual priced property market either!

You may want to reconsider your options.

you should also consider that in "plenty" sunny countries the taxman takes much more out of your pocket than any Thai "racist" double pricing.

[Tomtomtom69]

It isn't just in banks, but everywhere you go,. there are always two prices for just about everything, especially the golf courses, Thai and Farang

It's the same for Scottish golf courses - discount for the locals. Scottish universities have much larger fees for foreign students.

Same in the USA - locals get into Disneyland for less etc.

Where I live there is no two pricing on the golf courses. Try living in the real Thailand and out the tourist zone.

Nah...locals in the USA don't get a discount for going to Disneyland. What happens is that a Florida resident who MUST show a Florida driver's licence, proof of age card or other acceptable document, but could be a foreign student who simply possesses a local address, irrespective of whether they are white, black, Asian, hispanic or any combination of these ethnic groups still has the same rights to receive the discount. In some cases one can purchase a year pass, which is only marginally more expensive than the single entry ticket, same thing at Universal Studios Singapore, where you pay about S$32 extra on the standard one day entrance fee to get a 6-month unlimited pass. A New Yorker, an Australian, a Chinese, even a Thai visitor not resident in Florida all pay the same though, even though they all look different to each other.

In Thailand most decisions on pricing are based on racial profiling and tired old assumptions about how much the "stupid farang" or basically any foreigner can pay.

I don't think you've proven anything by trying to claim that our western countries practice dual pricing. With very few justified exceptions (like offering lower locals rates for local university students compared to overseas students who are not taxpayers) we don't discriminate and we certainly don't do it on the basis of racial profiling, stereotyping or other assumptions.

Thailand is not the only country which practices dual pricing, various other Asian countries are also culprits. But for a middle income country, it sure is quite a bit more prevalent in Thailand than in other similar income countries. For example, in Malaysia there is very little dual pricing. Even poorer Vietnam no longer has much institutionalized dual pricing like Thailand and has mostly done away with it at tourist attractions (which may have never had dual pricing to begin with), actually it used to be that some hotels, domestic flights and train fares in Vietnam were more expensive for foreigners until 2002.

[Tomtomtom69]

Geez, it gets worse and worse by the day. When I used to work (briefly) as a real estate agent for Thailand's largest property developer, I was in charge of selling condos that were the same price for everyone. The only difference was in the conditions to purchase, seeing that most foreigners would not be eligible for a home loan (mortgage) and would need to pay in cash. So in that sense, Thais purchasing a condo on a mortgage would pay more because they would need to repay the interest on top of the principal borrowed.

But if dual pricing at national parks, various tourist attractions and rip off attempts by taxi drivers and tourism operators weren't already enough, banks and property developers are getting into the game now too? Geez...this is definitely a worsening trend.

To the OP - unless you come from the most sun deprived country in the world, living in Thailand mainly because of the sunshine is one bad reason to keep living here! Not to mention there are plenty of countries with at least as much, if not more sunshine than Thailand receives on average, but probably won't have a dual priced property market either!

You may want to reconsider your options.

you should also consider that in "plenty" sunny countries the taxman takes much more out of your pocket than any Thai "racist" double pricing.

Well that is highly debatable and not necessarily the case either. In any case, these taxes are charged equally without regard to the color of your hair, size of your nose, ethnic or national origin. Even more importantly, they are used to subsidize important benefits such as healthcare and education. None of which are subsidized in Thailand, at least not for foreigners (except those that are able to get on the 30 Baht health care scheme but even that is limited).

Besides, Thai taxes are not that low either. So avoiding taxes or paying fewer taxes is hardly a good enough reason to consider living in Thailand. There are plenty of tax havens or even just other countries with much lower or even no personal income taxes, such as for example the UAE.

[Tomtomtom69]

Last year, my family visited a national park/rainforest walk in North QLD (owned by aboriginals) and an island on the great barrier reef. We were with a family ofThai friends who were visiting from their home in southern Australia. For park entry and the island transfers, my family paid LOCALS rate and our friends were charged about 20% more.

Never heard of dual pricing like that at any attraction in Australia. Please explain.