Buying a Villa off plan, with or witouth real estate agent?

[samsung99]

I'm looking into some Villa Projects near Pattaya and think I found what I'm looking for.

Big Plot of 500 sqm, nice Villas for aprox 6 MB. The name of the Village is "panaleebanna". If you add a ".com" you will see their homepage...

I also know that any Real estate agent will get 7% commission on the selling price (420'000 Baht on the 6MB).

Whats the benefit of a real estate agent? Will he do more than just drive you to the show Villa and collect the comission once I sign the contract?

Of what use are those guys, and did someone have a good or bad experience of a real estate agent while buying an off plan Villa?

If I buy directly with the developper, will i be able to bargain those 7% down or is this a noGO for any developper?

The other point.... If my NOT married Girlfirend buys it (with my money) for me and gives me a usefruct for as long as I live I should be on the safe side to "own" it for as long as I live. Once im gone, she can keep it ;-)

But what if we both decide to sell it while its still in the usefruct? Is it possible to end the usefruct if both parties agree? IF so, selling should be possible?

Any opinions on this?

Cheers

[guzzi850m2]

We bough our first house off-plan, no real estate agents involved but hired a lawyer for checking the contract.

We just talked to the sales girls in the village and like you, liked what we saw. We actually sold our 1st house back to the developer (for a small profit) and bought a bigger one in same village and faced no problems.

Yes since you are not married and I assume no kids, you have to protect yourself and your investment.

Since I am both married and have a kid, my situation are completely different then yours so I can't really give you any advice how to protect yourself.

[samsung99]

Glad to hear that it worked out well for you!

Did you negotiate the price down? e.g. as a compensation for the 5%-7% fee for the agent which they did not have to pay? Any discount at all or is it usually a fixed price witouth room for negotiation?

[simple1]

OP: Have you checked out the actual developer, T-Balance Property, as there doesn't seem to be any info about their track record. Any T&C's concerning residents rights for controlling nuisances such as barking dogs, dogs being left to wander around the development etc. Ongoing maintenance once the development sales have completed etc etc

Be interested to hear if you decide to go-ahead with this company & why.

[donx]

Regarding the usufruct, it can be removed if you both agree so you would be able to sell it later if you want.

[PattayaPhom]

Only 2 year hosting with a Hotmail contact..... ,,,,

[MaeJoMTB]

Buying off plan in Pattaya is particularly high risk.

Don't do it.

Buying illegally in a proxy (Thai gf) name, high risk.

Don't do it.

Chances of losing all your money = very high.

How much to rent the same house 25k/month?

So 16 years rent up front.

How long were you with your last Thai gf?

Usually less than 5 years.

So your loss risk is approx 200% more by buying.

Edited June 5, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[samsung99]

Buying off plan in Pattaya is particularly high risk.

Don't do it.

Buying illegally in a proxy (Thai gf) name, high risk.

Don't do it.

Chances of losing all your money = very high.

How much to rent the same house 25k/month?

So 16 years rent up front.

How long were you with your last Thai gf?

Usually less than 5 years.

So your loss risk is approx 200% more by buying.

I agree of the high Risk buying off Plan in Pattaya. Due Dilligence is the key, but the risk stays high.

All rational reasons lead into renting , not buying. But the emotional thing when owning a house, taking care of your garden and surrounding might be worth to take the risk.

Usefruct is quite safe from what I know. If the GF is gone, the Usefruct will still be there. Everything else than 30 years lease (not long enough, I might still be arround by this time...) or usefruct (for life) would be to risky.

Owning a house (resell) or a dream house (Off Plan) is simply tempting to me...

[samsung99]

Anyway, back to the topic..... Any more Feedback from people who bought off plan?

With or witouth agents? Able to negotiate the price down?

[guzzi850m2]

The village I bought into was actually not advertised by any real estate brokers so I didn't haggle with them.

The family that owns/build the village are very very rich, the houses goes up 200k baht each year no matter what and they can wait 20-30 years for selling the remaining plots (not many left), it doesn’t matter to them.

OP I can see that the village you are interested in, that many houses are already sold, how many have been build?

If any houses are finished and people living in them try to talking to them, you can get lots of good info that way; does the water supply run dry, does it flood? and so on.

It's nice to have your "own" house, we spend app 1 mill on improments over the years, sometimes we also swap the trees, always someting going on.

If you rent, you often get it with furniture , when owning you buy exatly what suits you, big TV, leather sofa(s), desk top pc and the list goes on.

My wife or son will get the house when I go 6 feet under.

[Sharp]

But the emotional thing when owning a house, taking care of your garden and surrounding might be worth to take the risk.

I can think of better reasons but hey!!

Just think about how emotional you will be if it all goes wrong friend...

Risk!! Exactly what you are doing.

Good luck.

[BarnicaleBob]

I would by pass the real estate agent and find a good lawyer to handle the purchase. Then he can research the land documents to make sure there are no leans or other problems on the property. You could also discus with the lawyer if there are other options to secure your right to live on the property. One thought would be to inquire about purchasing it in your girlfriends name and then obtaining a 30 year lease from her for use of the property. You can further insure your security by registering a personal loan to her to purchase the property (Note you can not hold a mortgage on real estate here but can hold her to a personal loan, just no collateral). So if you should split up you have the lease giving you the right to continue to live there plus you can hold the personal loan over her head if she tries to make any attempts to disavow the lease. Again I stress, hire a lawyer to get the best advice and to write up any contracts involved in the purchase.

[technologybytes]

Buying anything off plan is a risk, many choose to take that risk because it can be cheaper then buying a pre-built property.

You can minimise the risk, and you can get a lawyer to check the contract, but at the end of the day if the developer goes bust you will loose everything. It has happened many times so it's not juts a theoretical risk it's a real risk.

[Kees5555]

In another country P. (with many islands), I heard a story about a man who built a beautiful house on name of his lady.
When the house was finished, the family of the lady 'organized an accident'... RIP.

Another, but similar, story: 'burglars' killed the foreigner while the lady was out on a family visit.

Good luck!

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

But the emotional thing when owning a house, taking care of your garden and surrounding might be worth to take the risk.

I can think of better reasons but hey!!

Just think about how emotional you will be if it all goes wrong friend...

Risk!! Exactly what you are doing.

Good luck.

Everything in life have a risk linked to it. Each persons perception of risk associated to each investment may also differ. At present my view is that his investment in a property as described is lower than an investment in stocks or bonds, for you it maybe the opposite. Lets show the TV members the risk and let them decide on their own, instead of projecting our risk perception on them.

[Robert24]

No need for a real estate agent. No added value. You need a lawyer to check the contract, chanote and get the useofruct done.

on buying off plan. Only do this from reputable companies like Land & Houses, Sansiri etc.

hope this helps.

[Robert24]

just had a look at their website and thought give you some more input:

1) most small gated communities from small companies will look completely run down and deserted after say 5-10 years because the developer won't support security and maintenance of central areas anymore. If you buy from a reputable company (like L&H, Sansiri etc) they will maintain it also after 30 years+ because this is their business and reputation.

2) there are plenty of new houses for sale that are already built. Why not go look at one of them, I'm sure you will find something you like. You just avoid any risk with the developer running into financial difficulties and you loosing money. And always if you buy off plan, the risk is always that it somehow looks different than advertised. Even from the best, reputable companies. I've made one time such an experience in Singapore and won't buy off plan anymore.

[elgordo38]

Buying off plan in Pattaya is particularly high risk.

Don't do it.

Buying illegally in a proxy (Thai gf) name, high risk.

Don't do it.

Chances of losing all your money = very high.

How much to rent the same house 25k/month?

So 16 years rent up front.

How long were you with your last Thai gf?

Usually less than 5 years.

So your loss risk is approx 200% more by buying.

Above is some of the best free advice you will get. Time and again there have been discussions on TV about the disasters of buying a project off of a plan. There are late to non starters and I have personally seen the shoddy construction that takes place here and probably after the contractor has the last of your money he is long gone good luck on any warranties. If you got money put it in the bank and rent. If your not happy your not stuck with a white elephant just pull up stakes and move.

[elgordo38]

Buying off plan in Pattaya is particularly high risk.

Don't do it.

Buying illegally in a proxy (Thai gf) name, high risk.

Don't do it.

Chances of losing all your money = very high.

How much to rent the same house 25k/month?

So 16 years rent up front.

How long were you with your last Thai gf?

Usually less than 5 years.

So your loss risk is approx 200% more by buying.

I agree of the high Risk buying off Plan in Pattaya. Due Dilligence is the key, but the risk stays high.

All rational reasons lead into renting , not buying. But the emotional thing when owning a house, taking care of your garden and surrounding might be worth to take the risk.

Usefruct is quite safe from what I know. If the GF is gone, the Usefruct will still be there. Everything else than 30 years lease (not long enough, I might still be arround by this time...) or usefruct (for life) would be to risky.

Owning a house (resell) or a dream house (Off Plan) is simply tempting to me...

Is your name Adam by any chance and your favorite fruit is the apple?

[mikey1964]

I have bought houses twice before in Pattaya, both on the Dark Side, on partially completed projects direct with the oweners, no problems.

I actually used the developer to build my current house which is outside of a project.

Just do your leg work with the developers previous projects and the area you want to live in and you definately do not need a Real Eatate Agent!.

At the moment having a 6M budget will easily get you a lovely 3/4 bedroom house with pool.

Good luck

[samsung99]

Thank you all for the valuable input. At the end it is all abouth how much risk you want to take. Yes, accidents like the mentioned might happen to get the land from you (killings), but hey if your so anxious, then you should also not do a last will on her. The moment I die she will anyway get whatever I own. If it's a house or cash in the bank....no big difference...

One golden rule which I will always follow: Dont put more money into this country than you can loose (witouth getting so depressed to accidentially fall down from a tall building...).

This is the part Im willing to take the risk. But as mentioned before by some posters: Do your home work, take a good lawyer (best from Bangkok, so he is not involved in local corruption), ....

I checked on bahtsold for 2nd hand homes as well. Mostly not the owners directly, but agents .....

Is there any better webpage to check for2nd hand houses on sale?

[samsung99]

just had a look at their website and thought give you some more input:

1) most small gated communities from small companies will look completely run down and deserted after say 5-10 years because the developer won't support security and maintenance of central areas anymore. If you buy from a reputable company (like L&H, Sansiri etc) they will maintain it also after 30 years+ because this is their business and reputation.

2) there are plenty of new houses for sale that are already built. Why not go look at one of them, I'm sure you will find something you like. You just avoid any risk with the developer running into financial difficulties and you loosing money. And always if you buy off plan, the risk is always that it somehow looks different than advertised. Even from the best, reputable companies. I've made one time such an experience in Singapore and won't buy off plan anymore.

1) You're right, good input

2) Especially in Thailand where the computer designed pictures look way different than reality....

Are you aware of a better page to check for second hand homes than bahtsold.com?

[dotpoom]

Interesting that from all the posts I have read so far....none of them has addressed your point asking about if it is possible to seek a discount in lieu of the 7% commission they would have given an agent. I can only tell you my own experience. I have sold the odd house and a few condos during my time here. I gave them all to agents to sell for me at my asking price. I also advertised the properties myself at a cheaper price because I would be saving their 5% commission. Let's say their commission would have been 300,000 Bt, then I would drop the price by 200,000Bt in my own Ad. That way, if it sold through my Ad at my asking price I was up 100,000 Bt than if it sold through the agent.

I think any developer might be open to discussion about this matter if he is also using agents. If he is not then it's most lightly the price is fixed at his asking price.

Just my thoughts.

[wowfactor10]

U realize soon as u fully paid it and if the next day u mysteriously die that then she owns it right..?

How about a freehold condo built up already in u name with nice balcony with some plants.

How about wait that housing project to finish construction first? i sure by that time there r still more then enough unsold units to choose from.

Why make any off plan investment u joking us right?

How about just buy it now and put it in your bar girl her name then its off your mind.

I sorry i cant believe u is serious even...

[Robert24]

just had a look at their website and thought give you some more input:

1) most small gated communities from small companies will look completely run down and deserted after say 5-10 years because the developer won't support security and maintenance of central areas anymore. If you buy from a reputable company (like L&H, Sansiri etc) they will maintain it also after 30 years+ because this is their business and reputation.

2) there are plenty of new houses for sale that are already built. Why not go look at one of them, I'm sure you will find something you like. You just avoid any risk with the developer running into financial difficulties and you loosing money. And always if you buy off plan, the risk is always that it somehow looks different than advertised. Even from the best, reputable companies. I've made one time such an experience in Singapore and won't buy off plan anymore.

1) You're right, good input

2) Especially in Thailand where the computer designed pictures look way different than reality....

Are you aware of a better page to check for second hand homes than bahtsold.com?

if you are interested in second hand homes, I recommend to look at either repossessed properties or properties in the process of repossession. I bought one house in Land & Houses community that was in the process of repossession and I got a very good discount to the proposed starting price at the auction. Both the bank as well as the previous owner were very happy to make a deal before the legal process concluded with an auction.

You can look up properties in the process for repossession on the following website:

http://asset.led.go.th/newbid/asset_search_map.asp

Alternatively what I also like is that you go look around different gated communities (i.e. just drive around in a gated community), which gives you a good idea whether you like the community, the style of the houses, and usually you see a number of houses that are up for sale. I have seen some houses that are quite reasonable with a decent land size. Also some gated communities just sell land plots and you can build yourself.

Also some banks advertise properties that they have already repossessed on their own websites (just google them by bank) - but my experience has been that the prices are rather high. The best deals you can still make for properties that are up for repossession.

hope this helps.

[samsung99]

U realize soon as u fully paid it and if the next day u mysteriously die that then she owns it right..?

How about a freehold condo built up already in u name with nice balcony with some plants.

How about wait that housing project to finish construction first? i sure by that time there r still more then enough unsold units to choose from.

Why make any off plan investment u joking us right?

How about just buy it now and put it in your bar girl her name then its off your mind.

I sorry i cant believe u is serious even...

Don't put all Thais into your stereotyping judging sceme! Some of them are smarter, more educated than many farangs. As an example, my GF studied in Europe, is not from Isaan, never touched any bargirl business and doesnt think that im a money shitting Farang. In fact she never asked me for money all those years.

And with your thinking you should never marry any woman, because the moment you die...she will get all your money anyway. Invested in an usefruct or bank account or whatever.

So all Thai Woman will kill their Husbands the day after they get married.

Get a life....

[Naam]

In another country P. (with many islands), I heard a story about a man who built a beautiful house on name of his lady.

When the house was finished, the family of the lady 'organized an accident'... RIP.

Another, but similar, story: 'burglars' killed the foreigner while the lady was out on a family visit.

Good luck!

yeah! never buy or build a beautiful house because you could be killed by an earthquake, tsunami, accident or cancer.

rent and you will live happily ever after and forever

Edited June 6, 2015 by Naam

[wowfactor10]

U realize soon as u fully paid it and if the next day u mysteriously die that then she owns it right..?

How about a freehold condo built up already in u name with nice balcony with some plants.

How about wait that housing project to finish construction first? i sure by that time there r still more then enough unsold units to choose from.

Why make any off plan investment u joking us right?

How about just buy it now and put it in your bar girl her name then its off your mind.

I sorry i cant believe u is serious even...

Don't put all Thais into your stereotyping judging sceme! Some of them are smarter, more educated than many farangs. As an example, my GF studied in Europe, is not from Isaan, never touched any bargirl business and doesnt think that im a money shitting Farang. In fact she never asked me for money all those years.

And with your thinking you should never marry any woman, because the moment you die...she will get all your money anyway. Invested in an usefruct or bank account or whatever.

So all Thai Woman will kill their Husbands the day after they get married.

Get a life....

Nope i never said so...I only try to point out for u that what u trying to do here is not really bright !

Buying off plan,and not trully in your own name,and if you die your property will automatically ends up in the name off your current Thai partner?

Do u expect us to cheer for your bright investments plans? ,,

You come here for advice and my advice for u is to rent that house with garden and or to buy a condo in your own name so u will sleep better at night...

I assume a troll here..

[mike324]

Yes you can always bargain if there is no real estate agent involved, even though there is an agent involved you can still bargain just not as much. Real estate may just assist you with paperwork thats the only benefit, but this can also be done through a reputable lawyer.

Like others have said, buy from a reputable developer if you want a better managed community.

[trogers]

Buying off plan is not equal to buying a real property.

You would only be buying a promise from someone.