Uk - No 'back-to-back' Visitor Visas

[simon43]

Well, I have just returned after a very frustrating visit to the British Embassy. Here's the background:

I have been living in BKK with my Thai GF for almost one year. (I have a multi-'B' visa and travel each month to the UK on business).

Last October my GF applied for a 6 month visitors visa to the UK, so she could accompany me on my business trips. We explained to the helpful lady at the embassy that she would usually only stay in the UK for one week on each visit. A 6 month visitors visa was quickly granted. The lady then said that, if we wanted to obtain a longer visa (2 years), this would prove to be no problem after the expiry of the 6 month visa, so long as my GF did not breach the 6 month visa rules. This sounded fine and we travelled together to the UK in October.

Because of UK business commitments I then found myself forced to stay in the UK for 4 months. My GF stayed with me. My understanding of her visa rules was that this was perfectly legal, since she had a 6 month visitors visa.

In February 2004 we returned to BKK for 1 month. We then returned to the UK for a one week visit in March, prior to the expiry of her 6 month visa in April. On our return to BKK (last week), we prepared an application for a 2-year visitor visa.

We attended the embassy today, and I expected the visa to be granted without problem. However, this was not the case. The english guy who interviewed my GF did not ask for any input or detail from myself at all. (Unlike our previous interview where the lady did ask for clarifications from me). Without apparently reading the application provided by my GF he declared that he would give her a 2 month visitors visa (I never even knew this existed!!). And he would only grant this visa if she signed a written declaration (in Thai and English), that she would remain in England for no more than 1 week. If she stayed longer then her visa would be invalidated. No copy of this declaration was provided to my GF.

The Thai interpreter then explained to my GF that it was not allowed to 'back-to-back' visitors visas. She was told that usually she must wait for a 6 month period after the expiry of her previous visitor visa before she could apply for a new visa. The 2 month visa was being issued to her only because she already had a 1 week visit planned to the UK with me in April.

To say that I was angry at her shoddy treatment is an understatement! No atempt was made by this guy to read the application details/history, and his stance was a total opposite to that of his colleague last year.

So, I have a couple of questions that maybe forum members can answer:

1 - Where is the requirement/statement on the British Embassy website, or in their visa application documents that one cannot back-to-back visitor visas?

2 - Can we appeal against this decision? It seems my GF adhered 100% to her previous visa requirements, yet she was apparently being penalised for some unknown reason.

Any help appreciated!!

Simon

(Not a happy guy...)

[Digger]

Yes, I am aware of this rule. The back to backing goes against the spirit of the visitor visa. Do you have a work permit in Thailand as well as the B visa? Also for tax reasons where are you domiciled? UK or Thailand. These things also get talken into account, albeit sometimes very superficially. If your not a UK resident and have a work permit, then the embassy considers you to be living in Thailand and visiting however if you are tax resident in the UK, then effectively your GF is visiting a UK resident which I guess is where your problem comes from.

Hope this helps

[simon43]

Hi Digger - And where is this rule 'declared'? I see it neither on the British Embassy website, nor in the detailed documentation (Diplomatic Service Procedures Entry Clearance etc), provided on the UK gov websites.

I'm not sure how my own status in Thailand affects their decisions. I don't have a Thai work permit because I have UK business interests. I have a B visa because I have business interests in Thailand for which I do no work (I provide the money ).

I am UK domiciled but non-tax-resident in the UK.

In any case, none of this info about me was known to the visa officer because he neither asked me any questions, nor read the application details! His first statement to my GF was '2 months visa only', and he had to be advised by her that she already held a 6 month visa which was soon to expire.

Her previous 2 visits to the UK should surely have demonstrated that she was fulfilling the specified requirements to grant a visitors visa, of which the primary requirements are that she returns to Thailand before her visa expires and that she is supported whilst in the UK. She has met those requirements (and the others), so why is she being penalised?

This issue is not a major problem because we both live in Thailand and have no wish to settle together in the UK. But I am very concerned that the visa officer has failed to provide us with an acceptable level of service. Sounds pompous, but he/she is required to correctly interprete the Diplomatic Service Procedures Entry Clearance etc regulations, and to advise the applicant of his/her decision, and also to advise him/her why he/she has come to that decision. Right now, we have no idea why he has made this decision, nor whether we can re-apply for a 2-year visa after this new visa expires...

Simon

[simon43]

The British Embassy in Bangkok moves fast I emailed them about 1 hour after our visit to the embassy, and queried this back-to-back rule. They have advised me that indeed, such a rule exists. Any visiotr to the UK can only visit for up to 6 months in any 12 month period. Thereafter, they must wait 6 months before they can visit again.

Well, if this rule exists, then it's hard to find in print So I have asked the embassy to point me in the right direction of this documented rule.

In any case, its a bummer!! I and my Thai GF have no wish to settle in the UK. We only want to visit on regular occasions. Now it seems that I must go to the UK alone each month whilst she kicks her heels in BKK and waits for the 6-month period to elapse.

Simon

[englishoak]

If you stay longer than 60 days in any 12 months i believe you are tax resident plus any uk earnings are taxable.

A word to the wise, computers carry a lot of info and gov dept's do confer

[Schmeen]

It's 90 days in a tax year, and you must also be out a full tax year before you become non tax resident, so if you leave say in May it takes 22 months to achieve that status.

[Digger]

Hi Digger - And where is this rule 'declared'? I see it neither on the British Embassy website, nor in the detailed documentation (Diplomatic Service Procedures Entry Clearance etc), provided on the UK gov websites.

I'm not sure how my own status in Thailand affects their decisions. I don't have a Thai work permit because I have UK business interests. I have a B visa because I have business interests in Thailand for which I do no work (I provide the money ).

I am UK domiciled but non-tax-resident in the UK.

In any case, none of this info about me was known to the visa officer because he neither asked me any questions, nor read the application details! His first statement to my GF was '2 months visa only', and he had to be advised by her that she already held a 6 month visa which was soon to expire.

Her previous 2 visits to the UK should surely have demonstrated that she was fulfilling the specified requirements to grant a visitors visa, of which the primary requirements are that she returns to Thailand before her visa expires and that she is supported whilst in the UK. She has met those requirements (and the others), so why is she being penalised?

This issue is not a major problem because we both live in Thailand and have no wish to settle together in the UK. But I am very concerned that the visa officer has failed to provide us with an acceptable level of service. Sounds pompous, but he/she is required to correctly interprete the Diplomatic Service Procedures Entry Clearance etc regulations, and to advise the applicant of his/her decision, and also to advise him/her why he/she has come to that decision. Right now, we have no idea why he has made this decision, nor whether we can re-apply for a 2-year visa after this new visa expires...

Simon

Sorry been out of the loop on this as I had forgotten I had posted a reply in the first place.

Seems like you have found the correct information. When I aplied for my GF, they initially said she needed an interview, when I called up from Singapore (which is where I was at that time on a business trip), I spoke to the head guy in the consulate section and he asked me 4 questions.

1. Do you have a work permit in Thailand (err yes)

2. How long have you been out of the UK working (err 4 years at that point)

3. Are you returning to Thailand as a requirement for YOUR job (err yes)

4. Are you travelling out and back together (err, yes)

OK no problem he says, tell her to come back tommorrow afternoon and the visa will be ready for her.

So I assumed that the questions he was posing at me were to asscerain that I was coming back and bringing her with me. Perhaps they dont go into too heavilly but thats my experience.

Also as others have said, you might want to look closely at your tax status - based onw hat you have posted here you are tax resident in the UK whether you like it or not

Also would be gratefull to know how you managed to get a B visa multiple entry and then not get a work permit - is it on some kind of investment basis?

Hope this helps and good luck

[simon43]

OK, I know about the UK tax-residency rules. I used to work in Belgium and operated along the lines of 90 days max per year in the UK.

In any case, I earn no money in the UK, nor in Thailand. I am lucky enough to have a private income

Re my B visa, I got this very easily on the bais of travelling to Thailand to establish some business ventures (which will of course, be liable for Thai tax etc).

cheers

Simon