Let's debate critical issues without fear or taboo

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Let's debate critical issues without fear or taboo
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Openness in expressing and receiving opinions will show us where we really stand on issues of national importance

Anti-Muslim sentiments have been dominating headlines in the United States in recent weeks.

From the anti-Islam demonstration outside a Phoenix mosque to a Muslim passenger being denied a can of soft drink by a flight attendant who was afraid that she might use it as a weapon - and all sorts of incidents in between - Islam and Muslims in the United States find themselves in an unwanted spotlight.

Beside the headlines in the traditional mainstream and local press, social media was also another outlet for both sides - the anti-Islam group and sympathisers - to bash each other.

The people behind this backlash and hardening rhetoric in the US call themselves patriots. They come mainly from the conservative side. Their fear is not only centred on terrorist attacks but a conviction that Islam has no place in their country.

According to a 2013 survey by Pew Research Centre for US Politics and Policy, 62 per cent of supporters of the Republican Party believe Islam is more likely than any other religion to promote violence.

Among Democrat Party supporters, on the other hand, the figure stood at 29 per cent in 2013. But in 2002-03, Democrats who shared that view had spiked from 22 per cent to 43 per cent.

Needless to say, the poll indicated that Americans' opinion have taken on two different tracks.

Such a poll, in Thailand, might create an uproar. It's just not in our political culture to face up to such an issue in such a straightforward manner.

Suppose a similar poll in Thailand showed that most Thai people feel the same way as the Republicans in the US, Thai policy-makers would be forced to take a stand, which is something they tend to avoid.

One indication of how the Thai public would react is evident from the anti-Islam campaign in Nan province where a growing number of local people are opposed to the construction of a mosque in their province.

Their reasoning is that a Muslim mosque could pave the way for the insurgency in the Malay-speaking three southernmost provinces to spread to their province. The conflict in deep South has claimed more than 6,000 lives - mostly Muslims - since January 2004.

Like many people in the USwho equate Islam to the fanatical activities of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, people in Nan see the news coming out of the deep South and seem to have concluded that Islam was at fault.

Sad to say, in Thailand, no prominent Buddhists or Muslim figures have come out publicly to allay the growing fear of the people in Nan or try to put the southern conflict in a proper perspective.

It could be that our political culture prefers to deal with such a sensitive issue quietly, whereas in the US political leaders are required to take a stand for the sake of their political future as their constituency would want to know their take on key political issues.

Major American newspapers and thinkers have painted the anti-Muslim demonstrators as bigots and hypocrites - views that were probably influenced by the country's past treatment of Native Americans, Jews and blacks.

But it's not all bad, however. Many stories with a human face have surfaced here and there. One just has to look for it. These include the outpouring of support from non-Muslim communities, church groups, and civic organisations who have come out to protect the Muslims.

Even in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks, for example, there were non-Muslims who volunteered to sleep inside their community so it would not be targeted by firebombs.

The good thing about an open society such as America is that there are few taboos so the society can debate openly about any issue in public. These debates may generate a great deal of bitterness but they also generate critical mass and critical thinking. Open societies, it seems, have a built-in mechanism that works.

The same can't be really said about Thailand. We have too many taboos. But if we are to get over this hurdle and move on as a nation, we are going to face these sensitive issues head one. In this respect, a poll on sensitive issues would not be so bad.

Our national leaders need to stop thinking about unwanted results and develop the needed courage to face up to whatever a study reveals.

Indeed, the findings may not present Thai people as benevolent as we would like to believe ourselves to be. But at least a result would be out there. Where we go from there is up to us.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Lets-debate-critical-issues-without-fear-or-taboo-30261783.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-07

[noitom]

Thais are pontificating here about their own "taboos." Can you imagine?

[toybits]

Why don't you ask people from Thamasat University, Khon Kaen students and members of the FCCT whether that is possible to do or just a pipe dream. Speaking of Pipes what are you smoking dude?

[Plutojames88]

Quote

BANGKOK: -- Openness in expressing and receiving opinions will show us where we really stand on issues of national importance

Unquote

This is akin to hostages in a bank vault subjected to brain washing - being told their freedoms to share peanuts from a bag is somehow significant .

[Praematura]

Muslims are responsible for the majority of terrorism related attacks. Undisputed fact.

However, in all religions there are crazies. The difference is religious leaders of the Muslim faith make religious calls to kill non-believers. But I can't remember a monk or priest running the equivalent of a madrasah making the same claim.

I don't blame the Thais for not wanting to open a new establishment that may promote further violence on the Thai government or other Buddhists.

[sanuk711]

Let's debate critical issues without fear#

Wow reading that headline--for a moment there --I thought you were actually going to do something about the OTT Mods..............

BTW we are running a sweep on how long the post last--------don't disappoint us........

[WhizBang]

Let's debate critical issues without fear or taboo

Silly me, here I thought that perhaps Thailand had woken up and were about to discuss issues of real national importance, such as the les majeste law, or even perhaps the future of a certain revered institution.

Sigh.

[oneday]

Gotta give some credit. That's a pretty good article.

It's just too bad it won't make any impression on anyone associated with the current government...unless it's thoughts of someone needing an "attitude adjustment".

[quandow]

"Suppose a similar poll in Thailand showed that most Thai people feel the same way as the Republicans in the US, Thai policy-makers would be forced to take a stand, which is something they tend to avoid."

No they wouldn't What planet are you from? Politicians listen to NO one save their keepers (corporate sponsors).

I wish it weren't so, and your premise is an interesting one for debate club, but this ain't no party, this ain't no disco, they're not just foolin' around.

[pendingo]

I would like to input some perspective here as I feel that most people including the Thai public have no idea what the conflict in Southern Thailand is all about other than the general BS fed out by mainstream media.

First of all I would point out that I am not a Muslim and do not support terrorism for whatever reason anywhere in the world.

Also there is a majority of Muslims who just want to live in peace.

As with most religions there are different sects with differing views so just because a minority of Muslims are extremists it doesn't mean to say that all Muslims are terrorists or that all terrorist acts are carried out by Muslims.

Now here is what the conflict in the southern Thai states is about in a nutshell quoted from Wikipedia as I like to do some research before I make any unsupported statements.

"Background[change | change source]

The rebellion started in the 19th century, when the British and the King of Siam agreed on the border between Siam and Malaya. The British took Kedah and Kelantan, and Pattani became part of Siam. The sultan of Pattani was removed and his kingdom was split into three provinces. Ever since then, the Malay people of this region have wanted to get their independence back, or to join Malaysia as a state.

Recent history[change | change source]

The unrest in the southern provinces is one of the biggest problems in Thailand. There is an armed struggle against the government. There are many severe attacks on civilians too, mostly considered terrorism. Since it has happened, some Thai families had to move out from the site because the problems changed their lives. They were also scared of what would happen with them."

This situation will go on ad infinitum until a dialogue is established between the governments of Thailand and Malaysia and some kind of peace process is put in place with the protagonists in the souther states similar to that with Britain and Northern Ireland.

So, as the problem was created by Thailand (formerly Siam) with the British as cohorts it is up to them to sort it out.

[elgordo38]

Muslims are responsible for the majority of terrorism related attacks. Undisputed fact.

However, in all religions there are crazies. The difference is religious leaders of the Muslim faith make religious calls to kill non-believers. But I can't remember a monk or priest running the equivalent of a madrasah making the same claim.

I don't blame the Thais for not wanting to open a new establishment that may promote further violence on the Thai government or other Buddhists.

If Muslims come in as immigrants they should adapt to the new culture (OK Yes I have opened THAT door) They seem to have an agenda to convert others to their way of life. Their agenda is long term to make inroads and then wait for the implosion of said society. I did read here I think that London with a large Muslim population has Muslim patrols that admonish home bred and grown English girls on the shortness of their dress. What is next carry a big stick to back up the verbal message. They push the barriers to see how far they can go and unfortunately our way of life gives them the freedom to do so.

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand has no clue of what political debate really means. No clue whatsoever.

[tbthailand]

there goes The Nation again, pretending that something is actually possible when it is clearly not.

[lewy67]

Let's debate critical issues without fear or taboo

The Nation

Great headline but rubbish article.

So sad for the Thai's that debate of issues critical to their future is against the law.

[nithisa78]

without fear. It could be done if people would use better manners when they're rude. Think about it. That's politics.

it doesn't need to be so; Machiavellian.

[phoenixdoglover]

Politics:

the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power

This critical debate that the article is looking for usually takes place between individuals, groups, or political parties, and in the context of elections, legislation, and current events.

The key ingredients:

- free speech (the arguments are advanced)

- a free press (the arguments are analysed and liars are called out

- free and fair elections (winners and losers of arguments are determined, with term limits)

- restraint of government powers (the argument is allowed to happen, if nonviolent, no matter how ugly the argument)

- rule of law (violent arguers are arrested and tried impartially)

In Thailand, these ingredients are not only weak, or substantially missing, but the current government is pushing for that weakness to continue.

I think the author is correct; the Thais do shy away from some forms of conflict; but I think this "shyness" is also used as an excuse for a lack of transparency and abuse of power.

Where is the opening or the beginning? I fear it is not obvious, and it will require courage.

[h90]

Muslims are responsible for the majority of terrorism related attacks. Undisputed fact.

However, in all religions there are crazies. The difference is religious leaders of the Muslim faith make religious calls to kill non-believers. But I can't remember a monk or priest running the equivalent of a madrasah making the same claim.

I don't blame the Thais for not wanting to open a new establishment that may promote further violence on the Thai government or other Buddhists.

Well I would say they are responsible for 50%. The other 50% are Christs who fly their Terror drones over Muslim countries and shoot random people.

[h90]

Politics:

the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power

This critical debate that the article is looking for usually takes place between individuals, groups, or political parties, and in the context of elections, legislation, and current events.

The key ingredients:

- free speech (the arguments are advanced)

- a free press (the arguments are analysed and liars are called out

- free and fair elections (winners and losers of arguments are determined, with term limits)

- restraint of government powers (the argument is allowed to happen, if nonviolent, no matter how ugly the argument)

- rule of law (violent arguers are arrested and tried impartially)

In Thailand, these ingredients are not only weak, or substantially missing, but the current government is pushing for that weakness to continue.

I think the author is correct; the Thais do shy away from some forms of conflict; but I think this "shyness" is also used as an excuse for a lack of transparency and abuse of power.

Where is the opening or the beginning? I fear it is not obvious, and it will require courage.

-restraint of government also means separation of power. Police and courts are complete separate from politics and independent.

But Thailand has non of these key ingredients.....not with the previous government not with this. Actually that was a reason for the coup and the military government is trying to fix that with a new constitution, which will most probably not work unless they keep in power for a generation.

[h90]

Muslims are responsible for the majority of terrorism related attacks. Undisputed fact.

However, in all religions there are crazies. The difference is religious leaders of the Muslim faith make religious calls to kill non-believers. But I can't remember a monk or priest running the equivalent of a madrasah making the same claim.

I don't blame the Thais for not wanting to open a new establishment that may promote further violence on the Thai government or other Buddhists.

If Muslims come in as immigrants they should adapt to the new culture (OK Yes I have opened THAT door) They seem to have an agenda to convert others to their way of life. Their agenda is long term to make inroads and then wait for the implosion of said society. I did read here I think that London with a large Muslim population has Muslim patrols that admonish home bred and grown English girls on the shortness of their dress. What is next carry a big stick to back up the verbal message. They push the barriers to see how far they can go and unfortunately our way of life gives them the freedom to do so.

If you look at big European cities and I think London is the same how many problems are there with immigrants who are:

Muslims

Buddhists

Hindu

Atheists.

Or how many problems with people from

Africa

Arabs (and non Arabs from that area)

Russians

Indians

Chinese

other Asians

inner European immigrants

Everyone knows the answer even it isn't political correct.

[ggt]

Their fear is not only centred on terrorist attacks but a conviction that Islam has no place in their country.

The problems other countries have experienced with Muslim immigrants is not wasted on US citizens...the Muslims...once firmly established in a host country...want to establish their own laws and judicial system...within the confines of a nation of laws to govern it's citizens...

When this does not come to pass...then history shows that violence follows as the Muslims try to carve out a territory to call their own so they can practice their religion and religious laws without answering to the national government.

Islam is a religion of violence...either convert or be killed...is not a radical idea...it has been the cornerstone of this religion since it's inception...

What evidence do the people of the US have that the Muslims there are against the radical extremist operating in the ME? None!

They neither denounce the ISIS lunacy...or enlist to defend innocent people against the Islamic slaughter...

Any questions?

[Lupatria]

Let's debate critical issues without fear or taboo

Silly me, here I thought that perhaps Thailand had woken up and were about to discuss issues of real national importance, such as the les majeste law, or even perhaps the future of a certain revered institution.

Sigh.

Are you too stubborn to understand and accept that the price of lottery tickets, bike lanes and Thaksin's passports are matters of priority? Good on ya!

And in response to this:

Our national leaders need to stop thinking about unwanted results and develop the needed courage to face up to whatever a study reveals.

Maybe it already helps to stop threatening the media, human rights groups, and your own ministers:

The Finance Minister Sommai Phasee, presiding at the unveiling of the World Bank report, admitted he has been reluctant to raise the problem in Cabinet because he didn't want to offend the ministers who oversee education.

"I dare not speak up because there are three ministers responsible [for education and skills], and all are soldiers," he said.

[tbthailand]

Their fear is not only centred on terrorist attacks but a conviction that Islam has no place in their country.

The problems other countries have experienced with Muslim immigrants is not wasted on US citizens...the Muslims...once firmly established in a host country...want to establish their own laws and judicial system...within the confines of a nation of laws to govern it's citizens...

When this does not come to pass...then history shows that violence follows as the Muslims try to carve out a territory to call their own so they can practice their religion and religious laws without answering to the national government.

Islam is a religion of violence...either convert or be killed...is not a radical idea...it has been the cornerstone of this religion since it's inception...

What evidence do the people of the US have that the Muslims there are against the radical extremist operating in the ME? None!

They neither denounce the ISIS lunacy...or enlist to defend innocent people against the Islamic slaughter...

Any questions?

yes, why are you so bigoted?

please watch :

http://on.cc.com/1EH4tIP

[pendingo]

Their fear is not only centred on terrorist attacks but a conviction that Islam has no place in their country.

The problems other countries have experienced with Muslim immigrants is not wasted on US citizens...the Muslims...once firmly established in a host country...want to establish their own laws and judicial system...within the confines of a nation of laws to govern it's citizens...

When this does not come to pass...then history shows that violence follows as the Muslims try to carve out a territory to call their own so they can practice their religion and religious laws without answering to the national government.

Islam is a religion of violence...either convert or be killed...is not a radical idea...it has been the cornerstone of this religion since it's inception...

What evidence do the people of the US have that the Muslims there are against the radical extremist operating in the ME? None!

They neither denounce the ISIS lunacy...or enlist to defend innocent people against the Islamic slaughter...

Any questions?

I could argue that Christianity is a religion of violence considering the atrocities performed in the name of Christianity over the last 2000 years or so.

What causes violence is superstition, ignorance and bigotry not any religion per se.

Nowhere in the Koran does it say "convert or be killed" but as with the Bible certain phrases have been taken out of context and used as carte blanche for human beings to go on a killing spree.

In the 1930's it was the Jews who were perceived as a threat to humanity, after that it was the Communists, particularly in America and now Muslims are the new bogeymen.

Try to look at the bigger picture. Ask yourself who benefits from all this divisiveness? "Divide and conquer" as Julius Caesar once said.

Christianity, Islam and Judaeism are all kindred religions, check it out if you think otherwise.

As for the "ISIS lunacy" this is a result of the American and British/European involvement in the Middle East; again check this out..

Please do some research and get a better idea of what is really going on in the world instead of believing the daily propaganda spouted by the corporate media machine.

[geriatrickid]

I don't understand the Nation's intent as it starts off with an inaccurate and false narrative as to the situation with muslims in the USA. There is a significant diference between the treatment of muslims in the USA and in Thailand. For example:

- US Muslims do not live under a state of martial law

- US Muslims are guaranteed their civil rights both in law and in practice, which is something Thais do not have.

- In the USA there is no sectarian strife with Muslims and non Muslims being slaughtered as is occurring in Thailand. No bombings no terror attacks. Yes there have been some isolated incidents, but these do not reflect the sentiments of either muslims or non muslims. There isn't a daily bombing or attack as there is in Thailand.

Isn't it a bit odd that the Nation uses the USA for an example, when it could look next door to Burma for an example of ethnic cleansing and sectarian strife? Or it could ask some serious questions of itself on the treatment of the Rohingya, but no, going after the USA a country that isn't Buddhist, nor one that most Thais know anything about is easier.

The comparison between concerns about muslims in some parts of the USA and the opposition to the construction of a mosque in Nan demonstrates the moral and legal divide between the USA, a nation of justice and respect for civil rights and and Thailand where corruption is the norm and there are no civil rights. As much as people might oppose a mosque in the USA, if it is legally allowed to be there, like a church or a temple then it can and will be built. In Nan, if some hiso or a group of bullies says no, then it won't be built and there will be no recourse for those who are denied freedom of worship.

[FireMedic]

For a half of a second, I thought they were going to touch on the most sensitive subject of all........that can't be discussed.

[brain150]

Muslims are responsible for the majority of terrorism related attacks. Undisputed fact.

However, in all religions there are crazies. The difference is religious leaders of the Muslim faith make religious calls to kill non-believers. But I can't remember a monk or priest running the equivalent of a madrasah making the same claim.

I don't blame the Thais for not wanting to open a new establishment that may promote further violence on the Thai government or other Buddhists.

I heavily dispute the fact !!!

Most terrorism related attacks are funded, armed, mostly thought out by western intelligence agencies like MI6, CIA, FBI, BND aso.

Operation Northwoods back in the 60s might give you some inside on how this realy works.

NATO had [probably still has] a big project in Europe back in the 70s 80s ... Project Gladio [research it]

If you still believe the BS story about 9/11 then probably nobody can help you anyway.

The US Government has overthrown more Governments in the last 60 years than you might even want to think about.

[ukraine, Iran, Iraq, Chile, Afghanistan .... the list is pretty long]

There are some big players on this planet who play people against people, religion against religion and BS against BS.

This all to make sure there can never and will never be peace and people will continue to fight each other for some

BS reasons and blame people they don't even know.

The media is playing a big part in this with their propaganda. [just like this article shows]

... awareness and knowledge is the key to any solution.

[phoenixdoglover]

"There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call ... The Twilight Zone"

[Srikcir]

Muslims are responsible for the majority of terrorism related attacks. Undisputed fact.

However, in all religions there are crazies. The difference is religious leaders of the Muslim faith make religious calls to kill non-believers. But I can't remember a monk or priest running the equivalent of a madrasah making the same claim.

I don't blame the Thais for not wanting to open a new establishment that may promote further violence on the Thai government or other Buddhists.

If Muslims come in as immigrants they should adapt to the new culture (OK Yes I have opened THAT door) They seem to have an agenda to convert others to their way of life. Their agenda is long term to make inroads and then wait for the implosion of said society. I did read here I think that London with a large Muslim population has Muslim patrols that admonish home bred and grown English girls on the shortness of their dress. What is next carry a big stick to back up the verbal message. They push the barriers to see how far they can go and unfortunately our way of life gives them the freedom to do so.

Of course you understand that the muslims in Thailand's South did NOT come in as immigrants but had an islamic society there for as long as there was a Siam Kingdom in the North. It has been the Thailand State that has sought to convert muslims into "good" Thai citizens since annexation of the South.

[ggt]

Their fear is not only centred on terrorist attacks but a conviction that Islam has no place in their country.

The problems other countries have experienced with Muslim immigrants is not wasted on US citizens...the Muslims...once firmly established in a host country...want to establish their own laws and judicial system...within the confines of a nation of laws to govern it's citizens...

When this does not come to pass...then history shows that violence follows as the Muslims try to carve out a territory to call their own so they can practice their religion and religious laws without answering to the national government.

Islam is a religion of violence...either convert or be killed...is not a radical idea...it has been the cornerstone of this religion since it's inception...

What evidence do the people of the US have that the Muslims there are against the radical extremist operating in the ME? None!

They neither denounce the ISIS lunacy...or enlist to defend innocent people against the Islamic slaughter...

Any questions?

yes, why are you so bigoted?

please watch :

http://on.cc.com/1EH4tIP

Thanks for the comic relief...

[Balance]

I would like to input some perspective here as I feel that most people including the Thai public have no idea what the conflict in Southern Thailand is all about other than the general BS fed out by mainstream media.

First of all I would point out that I am not a Muslim and do not support terrorism for whatever reason anywhere in the world.

Also there is a majority of Muslims who just want to live in peace.

As with most religions there are different sects with differing views so just because a minority of Muslims are extremists it doesn't mean to say that all Muslims are terrorists or that all terrorist acts are carried out by Muslims.

Now here is what the conflict in the southern Thai states is about in a nutshell quoted from Wikipedia as I like to do some research before I make any unsupported statements.

"Background[change | change source]

The rebellion started in the 19th century, when the British and the King of Siam agreed on the border between Siam and Malaya. The British took Kedah and Kelantan, and Pattani became part of Siam. The sultan of Pattani was removed and his kingdom was split into three provinces. Ever since then, the Malay people of this region have wanted to get their independence back, or to join Malaysia as a state.

Recent history[change | change source]

The unrest in the southern provinces is one of the biggest problems in Thailand. There is an armed struggle against the government. There are many severe attacks on civilians too, mostly considered terrorism. Since it has happened, some Thai families had to move out from the site because the problems changed their lives. They were also scared of what would happen with them."

This situation will go on ad infinitum until a dialogue is established between the governments of Thailand and Malaysia and some kind of peace process is put in place with the protagonists in the souther states similar to that with Britain and Northern Ireland.

So, as the problem was created by Thailand (formerly Siam) with the British as cohorts it is up to them to sort it out.

During the reins of Rama 4 and 5, much of the political energy was spent simply to avoid becoming a British or French colony. In the 1890's and ending in a 1907 treaty with the English, Siam gave up over 170,000 square miles in the north and and along the Cambodian border. In the south, Siam gave up territory on the two coasts to the English.

I would suggest that Thailand nor English paid any attention as to how the south was divided with the single exception of economic and military advantage that would accrue to the British. England has had a long history of creating havoc for future generations by paying NO attention to the history, religions, and ethic identification of the people they colonized. The English are responsible for the disaster that is the Middle East, full stop.

Prior to 1934, two years after the coup, Pattani had been allowed to govern itself with little interference from Bangkok. However, this changed when Marshall Plaek Phibunsongkhram decided that all ethnic minorities would be "assimilated." The situation has deteriorated ever since.