I Called Immigration And Got Some Answers!

[Visaman]

Come to our office then. You pay for lunch if I show it to you with the government seal and it says three entries in a six month period. Deal?

Otherwise you can say we are full of imaginations

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

a free lunch doesn't show the confidence. I am going to give anyone a free air ticket from tomorrow if I can't make their visa run done. How's that sound?

[jdinasia]

Oooooh I didn't get that Visaman has a vested interest in this .....more becomes clear!

[Visaman]

Oooooh I didn't get that Visaman has a vested interest in this .....more becomes clear!

My interest today is to keep farangs stay and to help my country.

[jdinasia]

That would be Sunbelt's interest too! They happen to be well enough connected to usually get good and timely answers ... The folks atthe borders don't make the rules. <They enforce them ... to varying degrees ...>

[poorfarang]

Now Im really confused.

So starting Oct. 1st the slate is wiped clean and everyone gets 3 fresh VOA visa runs before they need to get a 'real' visa?

[LoveDaBlues]

This new news came from a high source and its good news, as it lets visa runners time to get the visa situation straighten out, let’s hope it sticks.

Here’s another thing, even if the official news is confirmed. It still will come down to the officer’s discretion at the airport or border. Just like the land situation, you can count on it happening.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

So, there is no official news so far, why you made us shitting our pants then....

So, there is no official news so far, why you made us shitting our pants then....

Sorry but we are only reporting the updates from Immigration the best we can. Everything is from someone in Immigration who is a high source.

That news which seems old now but is updated... investment visas are no longer valid for new applicants after Oct 1st but existing investment visa holders will be still valid forever. They are accepting applications up to Oct 1st.

The other news is... three 30 day stamps or 15 day stamps are allowed in a 6 month period. Once you have more than three stamps in this period, you must get a visa. Oct 1st everyone starts with zero stamps and have three stamps quota for the next six months.

Lets see what tomorrow brings.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Now I know what they mean by “Don’t kill the messenger"

If you look back on what we reported, such as the investment visa, no longer being valid after Oct 1st. No one still has reported it even in the newspaper. This was important to get out, as soon as we heard it.

As far as the visa trips…No one as far as I know has stated it’s not three entries in a six month period but three months.

Also no one other than us, has stated one hour stay in Thailand still counts as 30 days.

What news has changed, existing investment visas will be grandfathered in and the clock starts at zero on Oct 1st.

We are just trying to help as much as we can.

I don't believe there was a high source, and I don't believe there was a written paper either, all I trust are the facts, not the imaginations. I talk to the border almost everyday, I still don't know what they are going to do after Oct 1st. Sunbelt, hopefully you can talk to them as often as I do.

Come to our office then. You pay for lunch if I show it to you with the government seal and it says three entries in a six month period. Deal?

Otherwise you can say we are full of imaginations

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Pay no attention to Visaman. Can't respect anyone who craps in their pants over a few postings on a public forum

[Visaman]

That would be Sunbelt's interest too!

I believe that would be their interest, too. But just Sunbelt happens to offer different type of visas from the 30 days visaruns.

[chuchok]

Come to our office then. You pay for lunch if I show it to you with the government seal and it says three entries in a six month period. Deal?

Otherwise you can say we are full of imaginations

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

a free lunch doesn't show the confidence. I am going to give anyone a free air ticket from tomorrow if I can't make their visa run done. How's that sound?

Thats a crap answer.You wrote..

So, there is no official news so far, why you made us shitting our pants then....

So the news is official .Why don't you want to sight these documents?Scared of loosing face?

[A_Traveller]

Before we all get tired and emotional, lets take a moment to look at what might be happening.

A process is started to review and enforce visa regulations with, I presume, key targets including: a view to reducing grey workers {Chinese, Indian 'falang' etc.}, ensuring a more comprehensive understanding of who is in the Kingdom,and where, and finally reduce the charge that Thailand is a haven for dubious characters {even if that is not especially true anyway, but as the saying goes perception is truth}.

During, or just prior to this step, a high profile individual is found and 'deported' to much fanfare. During this process things are said in public which later prove to be incorrect and tremendous 'face losing' publicity accompanies the event with over enthusiastic descriptions of Bangkok's environs and tales of the expatriate community. It is also not the only event of it's kind.

The consensus is formed that treating the 'visa-runner' in a particular way will be a quick and easy fix. Further as part of the wide ranging, and possibly still continuing review, an 'anomalous' investment visa is rescinded. This process functions in private with the intention of publishing its new directives in the normal manner, as was the case with the amendments to per diem overstay fines.

However, before the process is complete a report is published in the press, and a further wire service report {by the same reporter?} is picked up by Forbes, a subscriber to the service. When the first report surfaces, the internet community devour it and quite logically, start to raise fundamental questions as to what it means.

No official statement is made {even now} but unattributable briefings provide some information. This information, given its source, is then published on the net. However, it quickly becomes clear that either the data was an early draft, an individual's perspective, or a error occurred in its collation. The first error is the position of extant investment visa, and this is corrected in a few hours, presumably from the same source.

A second element which then generates considerable concern is the apparent statement that from October 1, the date of the new position, the 'stamp count' will be retrospective. Subsequently late in the day today {Wednesday} the indication is given that this is not correct and that the 'clock will be set to zero' on October 1.

Presently, therefore no one here is able to say with certainty what the Immigration Bureau's position is and what they are going to tell the internal meeting on Friday. It is possible that another briefing will be given which will allow a greater level of certainty in the statement. However, given the inevitably evolving nature of this, assuming my premise has validity, it is wise to treat all such posts with caution until effective verification can be obtained.

Overall the only thing anyone can be sure of is what is contained in the formal announcement which is now expected on Friday after the meeting. {I hope}

Given that in most cases individual posters have shown courtesy and appreciation of others perspectives, understanding, and knowledge it is to be hoped that this will continue.

Just my 2 pence.

Regards

[terryp]

Take a look here it is very straight forward:

http://www.phuketgazette.com/news/index.asp?id=5220

[jdinasia]

that has been previously posted and is already appearing dated terryp .... nor does it say when the count starts ....

[zeusbheld]

To be fair here, my understanding is that there have been 'discussions' about the implementation over the last few days. It has been suggested that since the news 'escaped' in the Post and the wire service report that has been some 'running to stay still'.

this is something to keep in mind. none of this is official yet, it's a work in progress. who knows, our hissy fit might have even had some small influence in them not making the count retroactive (my understanding is that officials monitor this site, based on what i've seen in these forums and elsewhere).

HOWEVER i do think it is useful to spin scenarios even if most of them turn out useless--gives a leg up on what one MIGHT end up doing, a head start arranging tentative plan Bs, etc.

PS word from penang is still no multiple entry tourist visas, but do lets keep in mind that this whole thing is still being hashed out in meetings etc and that may change once they work it all out.

dear immigration officials:

if you're reading this, please consider changing the stamp requirements to 90 of 180 days, rather than 3 entries of up to 30 days, otherwise you might kill your airport's chances of becoming the shiny new travel hub of southeast asia for real tourists. i've done it several times and friends coming in november from the US, staying in asia less than three weeks, would like to come and go from thailand about four times. it would be a great boost to tourism if it were TOTAL DAYS rather than THREE ENTRIES, thanks.

[zeusbheld]

This new news came from a high source and its good news, as it lets visa runners time to get the visa situation straighten out, let’s hope it sticks.

Here’s another thing, even if the official news is confirmed. It still will come down to the officer’s discretion at the airport or border. Just like the land situation, you can count on it happening.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

So, there is no official news so far, why you made us shitting our pants then....

if you're shitting your pants i suggest either imodium or a bottle of that stuff with the flying rabbit on the side.

uncertain information is MUCH more useful than NO information. for instance, that bus speeding down the street MIGHT make you a hood ornament IF you don't know about it, OR it might change its course, but better to know there's a bus headed in your general direction, right?

also OFFICIAL information doesn't necessarily mean FINAL information, right? do let's keep this in mind, please, thanks.

[Visaman]

uncertain information is MUCH more useful than NO information.

So, you are telling me that you really enjoy listening to Sunbelt's uncertain information. Come on, you must be bored, get a real life.

[chuchok]

uncertain information is MUCH more useful than NO information.

So, you are telling me that you really enjoy listening to Sunbelt's uncertain information. Come on, you must be bored, get a real life.

I dear say that i would trust Sunbelts info alot more than your lightweight crap.suggest you get a life yourself old son.

[Visaman]

Bangkok Phil asked me to post this here as well so here goes:

After surfing the immigration website, I called immigration in Bangkok and talked to a very helpful and pleasant officer who spoke English. She stated a few things that will hopefully clarify some rumors and make people feel better:

Let me tell you how heavyweight that Sunbelt is, "my benny rai" made a simple call to immigration, got an answer, then Sunbelt hurried up to change his false info right away, he probably even didn't go to immigration yesterday, he probably never had that written paper.

Whatever, I guess your guys here are not interested in the real news, all your interest is talking.

Ps. I still have the suspicion that why Sunbelt did this. He’s got a motive, he sells everything but the visa run service.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Visaman

[HDRIDER]

Hi Visaman

Get a life, dont just look here, try other websites they say the same........

[chuchok]

Hi Visaman

Get a life, dont just look here, try other websites they say the same........

yep, visaman is the man alright.

[Visaman]

Sorry George, I have been attacking one of your sponsors. But what he did last 2 days wasn't professional. This is the last one, enough, I am off.

[chuchok]

byebye

[yoshiwara]

I doubt if the Thai authorities intend the poorer expat community to clear off...there is after all a whole economy revolving around the eg Soi Buakaow area....however they would like to stop the younger? crew p/t work associated with the property redevelopment industry etc. How can they hope to keep tabs on this? One can speculate that further proof of financial independence might come in for those who are effectively living on rolling visas/visa runs. What is worrying some in this forum is where the bar may be put as some are living on figures underneath the retirement visa. The wallop is in the authorities' assumption that a low income expat is probably doing a bit of ducking and diving and so the law of unintended consequences kicks in.

Edited September 14, 2006 by yoshiwara

[Soju]

uncertain information is MUCH more useful than NO information.

So, you are telling me that you really enjoy listening to Sunbelt's uncertain information. Come on, you must be bored, get a real life.

I think there may have been a lot of unnecessary panic created by warning us of what Immigration was planning before they made it official, but I think a lot of good probably came from it as well. If Immigration is monitoring this board as has been stated, then they would have seen the massive number of replies and realized how strongly people felt about what they were doing and they would have seen that their proposal was about to create some real big problems which they likely didn't anticipate. Thus using the feedback from TV and other sources, they are able to modify their proposal before they begin enforcing it. I see that as a good thing. I'm sure a few people went off and took action based on the preliminary plan, but I think the majority of people just spent time to take in all the information and began to formulate their own plans on what to do in the event it came true, but didn't take any drastic measures yet.

For the 30 day stamps, the bottom line is the same situation presently exists, but just delayed as to when the clock starts. For most of us, that means no real change except we have a short grace period. We still need to keep pressure on Immigration and whoever else (Thai Airways for one)who's businesses will stand to lose out if the 3 x 30 day stamp rule goes into effect.

I'd like to echo again what zeusbheld said well and to which I couldn't agree more is an extremely serious problem with their current plan:

dear immigration officials:

if you're reading this, please consider changing the stamp requirements to 90 of 180 days, rather than 3 entries of up to 30 days, otherwise you might kill your airport's chances of becoming the shiny new travel hub of southeast asia for real tourists. i've done it several times and friends coming in november from the US, staying in asia less than three weeks, would like to come and go from thailand about four times. it would be a great boost to tourism if it were TOTAL DAYS rather than THREE ENTRIES, thanks.

I would also add to that statement that it's not just tourists but lots of business travellers that will be effected by this new rule and will have a very negative impact on Thai business because many frequent business travellers will avoid Thailand if it becomes too much of a hassle to even enter the country.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Soju

[jackr]

They're killing two birds with one stone; keep the undesirables out - no offence to those with genuine thies - and make more revenue from the sale of tourist visas and the-like!

[thaiflyer1]

I/m on a multi non imm o so the changes dont affect me , i/d just like to add my support for Sunbelt they are trying their best to give factual information without scaremongering to a goverment implementation that does not appear to have all the "i's and "t's" crossed yet..........(i.e not finalised)

Keep up the good work Sunbelt.

[Gary A]

In my VERY humble opinion, Thailand very carefully writes the laws so they can be interpreted to fit the situation at hand. If you are a troublemaker I assure that it can be proved that you have broken some law and can be PNG'd out of the country. Do you really think The government is that indecisive? I have been here many years and everything has always been various shades of gray. My advice has always been to keep a low profile and mind your own business.

[huski]

This is the last one, enough, I am off.

just to make sure i'm giving your account a rest

/admin

[my benny rai]

All of this heated discussion was why I was reluctant to post here. I am sorry, Sunbelt, for drawing attention to what was probably your good intention--to inform people based on the knowledge you thought you had at the time. I knew about this October 1st start date from a friend who simply called immigration early Tuesday afternoon. He urged me to call the next day to confirm. I did so, we then compared notes and we had indeed talked to two different officers.

It is quite possible that things may change even more, but I very much doubt it. The government wants to put an end to multiple border crossings to encourage people to get proper visas in an outside country. As far as I have heard up to this point, the government is not trying to stop people from staying in Thailand who have proper visas. They are not going to put their collective feet down and suddenly bar people with too many stamps from reentering Thailand after October because that would cause too much chaos for long-stay tourists or residents and their families. Not to mention the affect a sudden retroactive change would have on schools (where many aliens work), agencies (that cannot provide work permits), visa run companies, landlords, and the list could go on.

I think all of this anger and fear-for-the-worst banter is a waste of energy. The government is not out to get you. Thais are generally very friendly and welcoming people. If you learn the language and smile, it opens so many doors. People, however, who are negative are not well received.

My understanding is, based on the interviews in the newspapers and the call I made, that this new measure is to stop people from working illegally. The only people who will be affected in the long run are people who do not have proper qualifications to get a work permit or enough money for an investment or marriage visa. I feel bad for people who are married and have a family but not enough money to get a Non Immigrant O Visa or the proper qualifications to get a work permit. I hope that the government will make exceptions for people in this boat because it would be a tragedy if they were cut off from their families for such a long period of time. Such people with families, who are in this boat, are there because the environment here provided them with the opportunity of climbing into the boat, that is, allowing conditions to persist in schools that enabled people to work here illegally--whether long term without a work permit or at the start of a teaching job before a work permit could be procured.

I also hope the government will change or at least streamline the process of procuring work permits. At present, coordinating between the MoE, Immigration and MoL is doable but not always easily or quickly done. Even this present 90 days starting from October may not be enough time for people to put their houses in order.

So let's please stop worrying until we get more information from immigration itself sometime early next week or until somone reports back that they have read an officially posted notice at the border.

[Soju]

My understanding is, based on the interviews in the newspapers and the call I made, that this new measure is to stop people from working illegally. The only people who will be affected in the long run are people who do not have proper qualifications to get a work permit or enough money for an investment or marriage visa.

You forgot to mention the tourists, businessmen, and other frequent travellers who will also be affected. A significant number of visitors come to Thailand frequently and will be barred unless they obtain a tourist visa which in many cases might be impossible or extremely inconvenient to obtain under the circumstances.

But I agree, don't worry too much right now. Wait until the official word comes down.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Soju

[PREM-R]

Starting the clock running as of 1st October makes great sense to me, it gives everyone, visa runners and the immigration people, time to adjust. If 1st October is "ground zero" then it would seem that you could do three 30 day "permission to stay" runs which would take you to 90 days and then leave and get a single entry tourist visa valid for 60 days which you would then extend at immigration (1,900 baht) for a further 30 days (90 days in total). You then leave Thailand and as you have not had a "permission to stay" visa in the last 90 days you will start the whole process again. When it is time to get another single entry tourist visa there should be no problem as they would not be "back to back" as you would have a gap of 90 days from the expiry of the last tourist visa. Now we are just waiting for confirmation that the "slate is clean" on 1st October.

[my benny rai]

I see your point, Soju, but only if the government puts a limit on the number of times one can apply for a Tourist Visa. If that is the case, which I hope it will not be, then that will bar long term tourists, frequent tourists, and residents who have a family but cannot qualify for any other visa. But if no limitations are placed on the number of times one can get a Tourist Visa, such people you have mentioned in your post will only have to plan ahead to obtain a proper visa but only after they have used up their three freebie 30 day stamps.