Video of US officer who drew gun on black teens raises tension

[MaeJoMTB]

I hope the kids learned something from this situation, including to respect the police and do what they are told and I hope the police officer in question gets some help for what seems like an anger problem.

What the kids learned was 'the police are your enemy'.

[mikebike]

Hahaha... holy crap, this is the least threatening group of teens I have ever seen!! Even I was way more of a threat to police authority as a kid and I was never beaten down nor had a gun drawn on me - cops took the 'farkin' pigs' and 'frack da police' comments or a flip of the bird, for what they were - harmless teen rebellion and would would reply with a smiling 'fark you too you little punk cants' (yep, we were hardcore and looked a lot more threatening than those kids!!) and everyone moves on without incident. Apparently nowadays the same behaviour deserves a solid beat down and a possible cap in the head... False fear is a terrible thing...

[MaxYakov]

Yes, yes, exactly. The situation seemed well in control by a police officer doing community policing- cop1 I will call him. He was validating their protests, their antics, yet sternly trying to exert authority and control when a piece of crap emotional mess of a man in uniform (cop 2) stumbled into the scene and like a wolf on patrol began looking for prey. There is a reason the camera immediately transferred to the cop at issue and stayed with him. It was as if the observers already took for granted that something out of control would happen from this cop. It is basic human body language he conveyed. He was hungry, emotional, and dangerous. This cop was expressing his emotion on citizens. Indeed, he even bitched about the unbearable burden of having to wear 30 lbs of gear- pussy! I would wear a single piece of equipment at work that weighed as much.

I get that cops are concerned and rightfully so. I get that certain populations of people are more prone to violence- this is a fact irrespective of how PC the topic is. But in this instance the cop perpetrated the entire affair. And why could those children not gather on the sidewalk. What was the purpose of commenting on the black girl's ass? Had the ass not been in the view this might hardly have been meaningful but it was stated as soon as she turned to walk away.

I believe black racial divides are being actively agitated in America and there is numerous examples of this happening, and the black population responding as an aggrieved body. Sure, when anyone is told they are a victim they race to embrace the label these days. There is considerable incentive to be a wounded population. Besides the benefits, there is no accountability for actions. This cop is a piece of crap but when those two young black men drew up on him the way soi dogs round about and draw up on the ankles he was correct in drawing his weapon and scanning his area. However, he did all of this. He brought on this entire issue. He should never be entrusted with a public service job again.

I would note there is little prophecy in the world or history but it is inescapable that a certain political savvy class of people keenly predicted these balkanization events within the past 7 years. They were not predicted based on tangible distortions in American access to opportunity rather they were predicted based on elected officials deportment, the relationship of organizations to color revolutions around the world, and the demonstrable re-tasking of the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division to actually deploy to areas and instruct and guide community organizers in how to foment protest, dissent, and open conflict. The US media rarely identifies what is actually taking place in America these past few years and it is basically a widespread, wholesale assault on white America. Indeed, a major push is now present in all schools to teach a required pillar of black militant theology theory regarding "White privilege-"

all White people are guilty by virtue of being born white and black people, by definition, can never be racist because they ostensibly do not control the apparatus of state. How utterly vacant and diabolical.

Edit: My post just hit as one posted ahead of mine suggesting exactly what I speak of. However, this is not the curricula of white privilege, this is an example of the self loathing that the curricula is designed to trigger in white people. First it was a corruption of blood for slavery. Then it was affirmative action in the great society. Now it is a larger net cast to forever label white people guilty just for being born. If one thinks this is extreme or sensational posting read the news, look at the facts. What I assert is widespread and endorsed through the Dept Education. White privilege? This is dark, dark stuff. The only thing that can evolve from this is war and conflict. Why? Because there is nothing left to give.

the demonstrable re-tasking of the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division to actually deploy to areas and instruct and guide community organizers in how to foment protest, dissent, and open conflict.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 authorized the Community Relations Service at DoJ which the hard core right sees instead as "diabolical" not to mention "vacant." The post is yet another post from the moon that requires being 100% corrected then dismissed for the rubbish that it is.

The Justice Department's soft side: How one federal agency hopes to change Ferguson

The Community Relations Service is just one part of four Justice Department operations here.

But the Community Relations Service — a 50-person, $12 million-a-year unit — is entirely different from those three larger operations. It has no investigative authority. Its mediators have been in St. Louis quietly working on disputes long before Brown’s death thrust Ferguson into the global consciousness.

And its goal, said Director Grande H. Lum in an interview last week with the Post-Dispatch, isn’t to make arrests or file lawsuits, but to give all sides a private place to talk, and, hopefully, solve their own problems.

“Those are the longest-lasting solutions — when the people themselves resolve their own disputes,” Lum said. His unit, he said, allows “people to speak.”

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/the-justice-department-s-soft-side-how-one-federal-agency/article_591a2e64-7dd1-5008-b300-0ab9ad8b9168.html

One issue about the cop in McKinny Texas is why he chose to ignore the menacing strong black guy every racially oriented right winger sees at every black event to instead assault a 15 year old girl wearing a two piece pool setup who is a quarter the cop's size. A cop has to shoot a black guy, every time, always??? The only armed people at this incident were the cops, to include one bizzare cop who should never be allowed near a police firearm as has only now become unmistakably apparent.

The teenagers at the summer pool party were broadly and consistently compliant. It was the frantic and disoriented cop who was dashing and tumbling about scaring the wits out of everyone at the scene. The 15 year old girl was decidedly manhandled by the disoriented cop who was not in control of his faculties. The cop went after the tiny girl while avoiding physical contact with any male at the scene.

"The teenagers at the summer pool party were broadly and consistently compliant."

It is not true that they were "consistently compliant". Here is a screen-grab of two girls running up on Cpl Casebolt as he was attempting to detain/arrest Ms Becton. The two had been previously told to stay away by Cpl Casebolt (on the video) and had done so until they decided to Ms Becton's assistance (or something):

I'm not defending Cpl Casebolt's actions w/r Ms Becton. I just don't like to see the distortion or exaggeration of events as it has been done by some of your statements as well as by the media (Fox News 4 in particular).

[mikebike]

It is not true that they were "consistently compliant". Here is a screen-grab of two girls running up on Cpl Casebolt as he was attempting to detain/arrest Ms Becton. The two had been previously told to stay away by Cpl Casebolt (on the video) and had done so until they decided to Ms Becton's assistance (or something):

I'm not defending Cpl Casebolt's actions w/r Ms Becton.

Well, if you take the position that Casebolt's actions are indefensible, as in your last sentence, then you must realize it was human nature, and their right, for those two girls to 'run up' and express their abhorrence of his actions. Was the USA not birthed on the concept that it is every citizen's right to defend themselves and their loved ones from abuses of the state and authority? Groups such as Sovereign Citizens often confront the police exercising their second amendment rights, and have killed police officers in defence of their beliefs, yet that barely passes as news.

[Tywais]

Inflammatory post removed.

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm not condoning or excusing this guy but it turns out he was under a lot of personal emotional stress that day and he just blew up due to his personal problems with his family and job.

As I said that's not an excuse, but it is apparently what actually happened.

Did you ever see that "B" movie called, "A Bad Day in the Valley".... which is based on a true story of a real person who lost his job, found out his wife was cheating on him, and was notified by his bank that they were closing out his bank account, all on the same day?

He got a shotgun, and went walking down a street in the San Fernando valley in California just randomly shooting every person he met.

Something similar happened to that cop.

[chuckd]

I'm not condoning or excusing this guy but it turns out he was under a lot of personal emotional stress that day and he just blew up due to his personal problems with his family and job.

As I said that's not an excuse, but it is apparently what actually happened.

Did you ever see that "B" movie called, "A Bad Day in the Valley".... which is based on a true story of a real person who lost his job, found out his wife was cheating on him, and was notified by his bank that they were closing out his bank account, all on the same day?

He got a shotgun, and went walking down a street in the San Fernando valley in California just randomly shooting every person he met.

Something similar happened to that cop.

The two previous cases the officer handled that day were a man committed suicide in front of his family and a teenage girl threatening to commit suicide by jumping off her roof. Rather a stressful start to his day.

He resigned after receiving numerous death threats from the race protesters.

He has now moved his family from their home for their protection.

PS: Al Sharpton is scheduled to arrive in McKinney this weekend for the protests.

Nobody harmed, nobody killed, nobody arrested but Al can't miss a chance to rake in some cash and get a little press time. Color me cynical.

[MaxYakov]

I'm not condoning or excusing this guy but it turns out he was under a lot of personal emotional stress that day and he just blew up due to his personal problems with his family and job.

As I said that's not an excuse, but it is apparently what actually happened.

Did you ever see that "B" movie called, "A Bad Day in the Valley".... which is based on a true story of a real person who lost his job, found out his wife was cheating on him, and was notified by his bank that they were closing out his bank account, all on the same day?

He got a shotgun, and went walking down a street in the San Fernando valley in California just randomly shooting every person he met.

Something similar happened to that cop.

Confirming chuckd's post, he had assisted at a suicide crime scene (and consoled the wife and children and assisted in the photography) and had prevented a second suicide before being called to the pool party fiasco.

Nothing like that happened here. If there had been there would have been a real story.

Edited June 12, 2015 by MaxYakov

[rijb]

I'm not condoning or excusing this guy but it turns out he was under a lot of personal emotional stress that day and he just blew up due to his personal problems with his family and job.

As I said that's not an excuse, but it is apparently what actually happened.

Did you ever see that "B" movie called, "A Bad Day in the Valley".... which is based on a true story of a real person who lost his job, found out his wife was cheating on him, and was notified by his bank that they were closing out his bank account, all on the same day?

He got a shotgun, and went walking down a street in the San Fernando valley in California just randomly shooting every person he met.

Something similar happened to that cop.

The two previous cases the officer handled that day were a man committed suicide in front of his family and a teenage girl threatening to commit suicide by jumping off her roof. Rather a stressful start to his day.

He resigned after receiving numerous death threats from the race protesters.

He has now moved his family from their home for their protection.

PS: Al Sharpton is scheduled to arrive in McKinney this weekend for the protests.

Nobody harmed, nobody killed, nobody arrested but Al can't miss a chance to rake in some cash and get a little press time. Color me cynical.

I hope Al doesn't put on a bathing suit.

[chuckd]

I'm not condoning or excusing this guy but it turns out he was under a lot of personal emotional stress that day and he just blew up due to his personal problems with his family and job.

As I said that's not an excuse, but it is apparently what actually happened.

Did you ever see that "B" movie called, "A Bad Day in the Valley".... which is based on a true story of a real person who lost his job, found out his wife was cheating on him, and was notified by his bank that they were closing out his bank account, all on the same day?

He got a shotgun, and went walking down a street in the San Fernando valley in California just randomly shooting every person he met.

Something similar happened to that cop.

The two previous cases the officer handled that day were a man committed suicide in front of his family and a teenage girl threatening to commit suicide by jumping off her roof. Rather a stressful start to his day.

He resigned after receiving numerous death threats from the race protesters.

He has now moved his family from their home for their protection.

PS: Al Sharpton is scheduled to arrive in McKinney this weekend for the protests.

Nobody harmed, nobody killed, nobody arrested but Al can't miss a chance to rake in some cash and get a little press time. Color me cynical.

I hope Al doesn't put on a bathing suit.

Particularly a Speedo.

[arjunadawn]

I have something to add. About 1 to 1.5 seconds before this frame was shot, the guy with a cigarette in his mouth (blue shirt/khaki shorts and another man (to his right and out of the picture frame) were running at the officer from the rear as two women were screaming at him from the front. He saw it and drew his gun. In the US under most states gun laws, that officer had the right to unholster the gun - and fire it if need be - based on the triad of ability/opportunity/jeopardy where 'ability' means that the officer faced the threat of being overwhelmed by a 'disparity of force'. He was well within his rights to draw the gun, and showed a lot of restraint by re-holstering it after the idiots who tried to attack him ran.

This will be interesting to see what come of this seeing that the officer resigned after being thrown under the bus by the McKinney, TX PD.

Attack.jpg

/sarc on

You notice that the guy with a cigarette in his mouth (blue shirt/khaki shorts and larger than the officer) is just a 'child'. The liberal media makes me want to throw up.

/sarc off

So yeah, I'm pretty sure he'll be cleared regarding drawing his weapon. But, thuggishly tossing that girl around like a doll. That one has me confused, and that's that type of police behavior that seriously needs to be reined in as far as I'm concerned. I'll be interested in what actually comes out in the official police report.

I agree. I would add the perp appears larger because of depth of field. But in any court the officer was correct to draw his weapon. He was just not correct on nearly everything else he did. This is a perfect example of someone show should be writing tickets or answering phones- even a fool can go to work, but he should never interface with the population again.

[arjunadawn]

It is not true that they were "consistently compliant". Here is a screen-grab of two girls running up on Cpl Casebolt as he was attempting to detain/arrest Ms Becton. The two had been previously told to stay away by Cpl Casebolt (on the video) and had done so until they decided to Ms Becton's assistance (or something):

I'm not defending Cpl Casebolt's actions w/r Ms Becton.

Well, if you take the position that Casebolt's actions are indefensible, as in your last sentence, then you must realize it was human nature, and their right, for those two girls to 'run up' and express their abhorrence of his actions. Was the USA not birthed on the concept that it is every citizen's right to defend themselves and their loved ones from abuses of the state and authority? Groups such as Sovereign Citizens often confront the police exercising their second amendment rights, and have killed police officers in defence of their beliefs, yet that barely passes as news.

The cop was only correct on one single point, only one- drawing the weapon when he had a feign approach from the the man with the cig. The cop was wrong to tell the people to scatter in public space. There was no threat to police or community for which the cop might be authorized to disperse the population except his own out of control meddling, which makes his actions sterilizing the crime scene- his crime!

The children should not have dispersed. The cop was wrong on every point and he makes me sick. Only a punk who is afraid behaves this way. Contrast him to the first cop.

[mikebike]

The cop was only correct on one single point, only one- drawing the weapon when he had a feign approach from the the man with the cig.

I have actually had the pleasure of watching a LAPD video of their Force Option Training Class in which they use a virtual reality Force Options Simulator (FOS).

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

The lesson taught in the training course by the instructor and the group acting as the Use of Force Review Board was that this is NOT a situation which justified drawing a weapon because it was "not a deadly threat" (a direct quote).

Make of that what you will!!

[Publicus]

Yes, yes, exactly. The situation seemed well in control by a police officer doing community policing- cop1 I will call him. He was validating their protests, their antics, yet sternly trying to exert authority and control when a piece of crap emotional mess of a man in uniform (cop 2) stumbled into the scene and like a wolf on patrol began looking for prey. There is a reason the camera immediately transferred to the cop at issue and stayed with him. It was as if the observers already took for granted that something out of control would happen from this cop. It is basic human body language he conveyed. He was hungry, emotional, and dangerous. This cop was expressing his emotion on citizens. Indeed, he even bitched about the unbearable burden of having to wear 30 lbs of gear- pussy! I would wear a single piece of equipment at work that weighed as much.

I get that cops are concerned and rightfully so. I get that certain populations of people are more prone to violence- this is a fact irrespective of how PC the topic is. But in this instance the cop perpetrated the entire affair. And why could those children not gather on the sidewalk. What was the purpose of commenting on the black girl's ass? Had the ass not been in the view this might hardly have been meaningful but it was stated as soon as she turned to walk away.

I believe black racial divides are being actively agitated in America and there is numerous examples of this happening, and the black population responding as an aggrieved body. Sure, when anyone is told they are a victim they race to embrace the label these days. There is considerable incentive to be a wounded population. Besides the benefits, there is no accountability for actions. This cop is a piece of crap but when those two young black men drew up on him the way soi dogs round about and draw up on the ankles he was correct in drawing his weapon and scanning his area. However, he did all of this. He brought on this entire issue. He should never be entrusted with a public service job again.

I would note there is little prophecy in the world or history but it is inescapable that a certain political savvy class of people keenly predicted these balkanization events within the past 7 years. They were not predicted based on tangible distortions in American access to opportunity rather they were predicted based on elected officials deportment, the relationship of organizations to color revolutions around the world, and the demonstrable re-tasking of the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division to actually deploy to areas and instruct and guide community organizers in how to foment protest, dissent, and open conflict. The US media rarely identifies what is actually taking place in America these past few years and it is basically a widespread, wholesale assault on white America. Indeed, a major push is now present in all schools to teach a required pillar of black militant theology theory regarding "White privilege-"

all White people are guilty by virtue of being born white and black people, by definition, can never be racist because they ostensibly do not control the apparatus of state. How utterly vacant and diabolical.

Edit: My post just hit as one posted ahead of mine suggesting exactly what I speak of. However, this is not the curricula of white privilege, this is an example of the self loathing that the curricula is designed to trigger in white people. First it was a corruption of blood for slavery. Then it was affirmative action in the great society. Now it is a larger net cast to forever label white people guilty just for being born. If one thinks this is extreme or sensational posting read the news, look at the facts. What I assert is widespread and endorsed through the Dept Education. White privilege? This is dark, dark stuff. The only thing that can evolve from this is war and conflict. Why? Because there is nothing left to give.

the demonstrable re-tasking of the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division to actually deploy to areas and instruct and guide community organizers in how to foment protest, dissent, and open conflict.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 authorized the Community Relations Service at DoJ which the hard core right sees instead as "diabolical" not to mention "vacant." The post is yet another post from the moon that requires being 100% corrected then dismissed for the rubbish that it is.

The Justice Department's soft side: How one federal agency hopes to change Ferguson

The Community Relations Service is just one part of four Justice Department operations here.

But the Community Relations Service — a 50-person, $12 million-a-year unit — is entirely different from those three larger operations. It has no investigative authority. Its mediators have been in St. Louis quietly working on disputes long before Brown’s death thrust Ferguson into the global consciousness.

And its goal, said Director Grande H. Lum in an interview last week with the Post-Dispatch, isn’t to make arrests or file lawsuits, but to give all sides a private place to talk, and, hopefully, solve their own problems.

“Those are the longest-lasting solutions — when the people themselves resolve their own disputes,” Lum said. His unit, he said, allows “people to speak.”

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/the-justice-department-s-soft-side-how-one-federal-agency/article_591a2e64-7dd1-5008-b300-0ab9ad8b9168.html

One issue about the cop in McKinny Texas is why he chose to ignore the menacing strong black guy every racially oriented right winger sees at every black event to instead assault a 15 year old girl wearing a two piece pool setup who is a quarter the cop's size. A cop has to shoot a black guy, every time, always??? The only armed people at this incident were the cops, to include one bizzare cop who should never be allowed near a police firearm as has only now become unmistakably apparent.

The teenagers at the summer pool party were broadly and consistently compliant. It was the frantic and disoriented cop who was dashing and tumbling about scaring the wits out of everyone at the scene. The 15 year old girl was decidedly manhandled by the disoriented cop who was not in control of his faculties. The cop went after the tiny girl while avoiding physical contact with any male at the scene.

"The teenagers at the summer pool party were broadly and consistently compliant."

It is not true that they were "consistently compliant". Here is a screen-grab of two girls running up on Cpl Casebolt as he was attempting to detain/arrest Ms Becton. The two had been previously told to stay away by Cpl Casebolt (on the video) and had done so until they decided to Ms Becton's assistance (or something):

Casebolt_Becton.jpeg

I'm not defending Cpl Casebolt's actions w/r Ms Becton. I just don't like to see the distortion or exaggeration of events as it has been done by some of your statements as well as by the media (Fox News 4 in particular).

"The teenagers at the summer pool party were broadly and consistently compliant."

Nothing from or by the flying right wing of US poliitics, society, culture has disproved my statement made immediately after the cell phone video became available for full viewing.

The beserk cop was running around in the street rounding up kids who were trying to drift away from the bizarre scene.

The beserked cop lectured, scolded and complained to the kids about the weight of his uniform while he had felt compelled to pursue his roundup and branding session.

My statement "broadly and consistently compliant" is the reality. The right's unending search for an issue where there is no issue is the unreality. The McKinney Texas kids just can't be branded by the far out right no matter how hard the extremists try to paint everyone they don't like with their one broad brush of one-color of paint.

The right's one color describes all and every one of 'em approach is a dismal and blatant failure. It is a self-embarrassment the far out right just don't get about themselves.

[mmh8]

this is exactly why police should only use little wooden sticks or expandable batons. that way you learn to control situations without use of deadly force.

I think this is more examplefic of entire us training and policing than a single incident. I have seen many you tube videos of more heavily protected police wearing flak jackets body armour etc attacking peaceful protesters etc. And the mass distribution of more military equipment to all policing departments is also examplific of poor police training, of course I guess in the united states you are not trying to win hearts and minds of the local population, you are looking for compliance.

Its time US policeing learnt a little bit about policing not pretending to be rambo or whatever film the police in video is copying. Points will be given if anyone can correctly guess what film the officer was copying? before control of the situation was lost.

[MaxYakov]

That was not the last sentence in my reply, Genius.

I've never claimed to be a genius, but at least I can understand the reference was to the last sentence quoted, not the last sentence in your post...

Well then, you are probably the only one that does understand that twisted excuse.

You edited my reply, omitting a crucial sentence in a way that distorted the meaning of my reply. Very bad forum etiquette and it shouldn't take a genius to get that, should it?

But to answer your silly question: It is not my responsibility to pass judgment on Cpl Casebolt's handling of his detain/arrest of Ms Becton. She was unharmed is the bottom line. Maybe she learned something about showing respect to law enforcement officers and to not violently resist arrest.

It was not the two girls' right to interfere with Cpl Casebolt. That is now bystanders can get harmed and there could be unintended consequences.

Edited June 12, 2015 by MaxYakov

[arjunadawn]

The cop was only correct on one single point, only one- drawing the weapon when he had a feign approach from the the man with the cig.

I have actually had the pleasure of watching a LAPD video of their Force Option Training Class in which they use a virtual reality Force Options Simulator (FOS).

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

The lesson taught in the training course by the instructor and the group acting as the Use of Force Review Board was that this is NOT a situation which justified drawing a weapon because it was "not a deadly threat" (a direct quote).

Make of that what you will!!

I have actually trained LA county Sheriff's department and LEA around the world in use of force continuum, escalation, weapons retention, etc, out of JTF6, EPIC, DOD, DOS, other, and direct National advisory roles. I have some years actually doing this.These similar standards are actually also employed in dignitary protection- low, mid, and high threat.

The kinder, "new" LAPD may be trying to revise the means by which officers stumble down the path of bad decisions following this above nexus that we are discussing, but the point remains valid, I think, that the officer seemed unaware he was actually fomenting the very situation he was responding to, and that the proximity, and likely intent seemed established when someone entered his personal AO. There is just no indication of any capability. The officer drew his gun, which in retrospect seems excessive, and immediately scanned his area to reassess the environment around him, that was previously obscured while he was doing some dumb ass shit on the ground with that kid. If that officer had not done this I would have failed him. It is only regrettable that this action, in context with his stupidity and unprofessionalism overall, winds up reinforcing his overall behavior. No, this action was the only thing he did correctly.

IMO, the Force Review Board sounds like a Board to Force a Review of generally recognized SOP. If anyone muses that deadly threat is only and always apparent immediately is a fool. Deadly intent or not should always be determined before firing a weapon, but this is not the same threshold as drawing a weapon. This man noted a peripheral force quickly approaching, drew his weapon, thereby repulsing the approach, noting it posed no threat, he scanned his area. Perfect. The problem is he is otherwise a jackass. I could actually see using this as a teaching example of how delicate and 'iffy' a decision could be in the field, under duress.

[MaxYakov]

The cop was only correct on one single point, only one- drawing the weapon when he had a feign approach from the the man with the cig.

I have actually had the pleasure of watching a LAPD video of their Force Option Training Class in which they use a virtual reality Force Options Simulator (FOS).

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

The lesson taught in the training course by the instructor and the group acting as the Use of Force Review Board was that this is NOT a situation which justified drawing a weapon because it was "not a deadly threat" (a direct quote).

Make of that what you will!!

I have actually trained LA county Sheriff's department and LEA around the world in use of force continuum, escalation, weapons retention, etc, out of JTF6, EPIC, DOD, DOS, other, and direct National advisory roles. I have some years actually doing this.These similar standards are actually also employed in dignitary protection- low, mid, and high threat.

The kinder, "new" LAPD may be trying to revise the means by which officers stumble down the path of bad decisions following this above nexus that we are discussing, but the point remains valid, I think, that the officer seemed unaware he was actually fomenting the very situation he was responding to, and that the proximity, and likely intent seemed established when someone entered his personal AO. There is just no indication of any capability. The officer drew his gun, which in retrospect seems excessive, and immediately scanned his area to reassess the environment around him, that was previously obscured while he was doing some dumb ass shit on the ground with that kid. If that officer had not done this I would have failed him. It is only regrettable that this action, in context with his stupidity and unprofessionalism overall, winds up reinforcing his overall behavior. No, this action was the only thing he did correctly.

IMO, the Force Review Board sounds like a Board to Force a Review of generally recognized SOP. If anyone muses that deadly threat is only and always apparent immediately is a fool. Deadly intent or not should always be determined before firing a weapon, but this is not the same threshold as drawing a weapon. This man noted a peripheral force quickly approaching, drew his weapon, thereby repulsing the approach, noting it posed no threat, he scanned his area. Perfect. The problem is he is otherwise a jackass. I could actually see using this as a teaching example of how delicate and 'iffy' a decision could be in the field, under duress.

Good post. The only thing I have a problem with is that we cannot know what transpired between Ms Becton and Cpl Casebolt (at a distance in the video and without legible audio or video). So you are forming a conclusion with minimal information unless you have other sources about what transpired. If you do could you share it with us?

Suppose she had assaulted him, for example?

Don't you think it would be fair to hear his side of why he attempted to detain/arrest her? I know I would like to hear it before forming an opinion. As she was unharmed, he had obviously used one of the lower levels of the force continuum, yes? The lowest being, of course, that he simply had ignored her. Then we wouldn't be here discussing it would we be? Also, the MSM, the activists and Al Sharpton wouldn't have something to sensationalize.

Edited June 12, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Linky]

The cop was only correct on one single point, only one- drawing the weapon when he had a feign approach from the the man with the cig.

I have actually had the pleasure of watching a LAPD video of their Force Option Training Class in which they use a virtual reality Force Options Simulator (FOS).

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

The lesson taught in the training course by the instructor and the group acting as the Use of Force Review Board was that this is NOT a situation which justified drawing a weapon because it was "not a deadly threat" (a direct quote).

Make of that what you will!!

I have actually trained LA county Sheriff's department and LEA around the world in use of force continuum, escalation, weapons retention, etc, out of JTF6, EPIC, DOD, DOS, other, and direct National advisory roles. I have some years actually doing this.These similar standards are actually also employed in dignitary protection- low, mid, and high threat.

The kinder, "new" LAPD may be trying to revise the means by which officers stumble down the path of bad decisions following this above nexus that we are discussing, but the point remains valid, I think, that the officer seemed unaware he was actually fomenting the very situation he was responding to, and that the proximity, and likely intent seemed established when someone entered his personal AO. There is just no indication of any capability. The officer drew his gun, which in retrospect seems excessive, and immediately scanned his area to reassess the environment around him, that was previously obscured while he was doing some dumb ass shit on the ground with that kid. If that officer had not done this I would have failed him. It is only regrettable that this action, in context with his stupidity and unprofessionalism overall, winds up reinforcing his overall behavior. No, this action was the only thing he did correctly.

IMO, the Force Review Board sounds like a Board to Force a Review of generally recognized SOP. If anyone muses that deadly threat is only and always apparent immediately is a fool. Deadly intent or not should always be determined before firing a weapon, but this is not the same threshold as drawing a weapon. This man noted a peripheral force quickly approaching, drew his weapon, thereby repulsing the approach, noting it posed no threat, he scanned his area. Perfect. The problem is he is otherwise a jackass. I could actually see using this as a teaching example of how delicate and 'iffy' a decision could be in the field, under duress.

Good post. The only thing I have a problem with is we cannot know what transpired between Ms Becton and Cpl Casebolt (at a distance in the video and without legible audio or video). So you are forming a conclusion with minimal information unless you have other sources about what transpired. If you do could you share it with us?

Suppose she had assaulted him, for example?

Don't you think it would be fair to hear his side of why he attempted to detain/arrest her? I know I would like to hear it before forming an opinion. As she was unharmed, he had obviously used one of the lower levels of the force continuum, yes? The lowest being, of course, that he ignored her. Then we wouldn't be here discussing it would we be? And the MSM and activists wouldn't have something to sensationalize.

You have already heard his side of the story. He apologised. End of story.

And the only thing that girl learned is to not trust police.

[MaxYakov]

arjunadawn, Today - 13:53 said:

The cop was only correct on one single point, only one- drawing the weapon w

hen he had a feign approach from the the man with the cig.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have actually had the pleasure of watching a LAPD video of their Force Option Training Class in which they use a virtual reality Force Options Simulator (FOS).

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

The lesson taught in the training course by the instructor and the group acting as the Use of Force Review Board was that this is NOT a situation which justified drawing a weapon because it was "not a deadly threat" (a direct quote).

Make of that what you will!!

I have actually trained LA county Sheriff's department and LEA around the world in use of force continuum, escalation, weapons retention, etc, out of JTF6, EPIC, DOD, DOS, other, and direct National advisory roles. I have some years actually doing this.These similar standards are actually also employed in dignitary protection- low, mid, and high threat.

The kinder, "new" LAPD may be trying to revise the means by which officers stumble down the path of bad decisions following this above nexus that we are discussing, but the point remains valid, I think, that the officer seemed unaware he was actually fomenting the very situation he was responding to, and that the proximity, and likely intent seemed established when someone entered his personal AO. There is just no indication of any capability. The officer drew his gun, which in retrospect seems excessive, and immediately scanned his area to reassess the environment around him, that was previously obscured while he was doing some dumb ass shit on the ground with that kid. If that officer had not done this I would have failed him. It is only regrettable that this action, in context with his stupidity and unprofessionalism overall, winds up reinforcing his overall behavior. No, this action was the only thing he did correctly.

IMO, the Force Review Board sounds like a Board to Force a Review of generally recognized SOP. If anyone muses that deadly threat is only and always apparent immediately is a fool. Deadly intent or not should always be determined before firing a weapon, but this is not the same threshold as drawing a weapon. This man noted a peripheral force quickly approaching, drew his weapon, thereby repulsing the approach, noting it posed no threat, he scanned his area. Perfect. The problem is he is otherwise a jackass. I could actually see using this as a teaching example of how delicate and 'iffy' a decision could be in the field, under duress.

Good post. The only thing I have a problem with is we cannot know what transpired between Ms Becton and Cpl Casebolt (at a distance in the video and without legible audio or video). So you are forming a conclusion with minimal information unless you have other sources about what transpired. If you do could you share it with us?

Suppose she had assaulted him, for example?

Don't you think it would be fair to hear his side of why he attempted to detain/arrest her? I know I would like to hear it before forming an opinion. As she was unharmed, he had obviously used one of the lower levels of the force continuum, yes? The lowest being, of course, that he ignored her. Then we wouldn't be here discussing it would we be? And the MSM and activists wouldn't have something to sensationalize.

You have already heard his side of the story. He apologised. End of story.

And the only thing that girl learned is to not trust police.

So I guess your listening to a member of the community and actually experienced it from start to finish is out of the question:

If all they learned is to "not trust police", then they're going to flunk the final - the real world, which is not exactly a "pool party". Then again, even pool parties can go pear-shaped.

Edited June 12, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Seastallion]

So I guess your listening to a member of the community and actually experienced it from start to finish is out of the question:

Not dissimilar to some posters here.

Such a good witness, she didn't know if it was a gun or a tazer.

Completely distorted view of events, eg the boys "attacked" the cop.

Her testimony is worthless and merely shows how blindly biased some people can be.

The bottom line is the cop himself knows he was out of line and resigned. His boss knows he was out of line and is considering what action to take. The girl's lawyer knows he was out of line and so will probably relish suing.

How people can keep defending him with distortions of events is beyond me.

[MaeJoMTB]

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

Was the 'perp' a nearly naked teenage girl in broad daylight.

If not your post is apologist rubbish.

[Linky]

arjunadawn, Today - 13:53 said:

The cop was only correct on one single point, only one- drawing the weapon w
hen he had a feign approach from the the man with the cig.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have actually had the pleasure of watching a LAPD video of their Force Option Training Class in which they use a virtual reality Force Options Simulator (FOS).

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

The lesson taught in the training course by the instructor and the group acting as the Use of Force Review Board was that this is NOT a situation which justified drawing a weapon because it was "not a deadly threat" (a direct quote).

Make of that what you will!!

I have actually trained LA county Sheriff's department and LEA around the world in use of force continuum, escalation, weapons retention, etc, out of JTF6, EPIC, DOD, DOS, other, and direct National advisory roles. I have some years actually doing this.These similar standards are actually also employed in dignitary protection- low, mid, and high threat.

The kinder, "new" LAPD may be trying to revise the means by which officers stumble down the path of bad decisions following this above nexus that we are discussing, but the point remains valid, I think, that the officer seemed unaware he was actually fomenting the very situation he was responding to, and that the proximity, and likely intent seemed established when someone entered his personal AO. There is just no indication of any capability. The officer drew his gun, which in retrospect seems excessive, and immediately scanned his area to reassess the environment around him, that was previously obscured while he was doing some dumb ass shit on the ground with that kid. If that officer had not done this I would have failed him. It is only regrettable that this action, in context with his stupidity and unprofessionalism overall, winds up reinforcing his overall behavior. No, this action was the only thing he did correctly.

IMO, the Force Review Board sounds like a Board to Force a Review of generally recognized SOP. If anyone muses that deadly threat is only and always apparent immediately is a fool. Deadly intent or not should always be determined before firing a weapon, but this is not the same threshold as drawing a weapon. This man noted a peripheral force quickly approaching, drew his weapon, thereby repulsing the approach, noting it posed no threat, he scanned his area. Perfect. The problem is he is otherwise a jackass. I could actually see using this as a teaching example of how delicate and 'iffy' a decision could be in the field, under duress.

Good post. The only thing I have a problem with is we cannot know what transpired between Ms Becton and Cpl Casebolt (at a distance in the video and without legible audio or video). So you are forming a conclusion with minimal information unless you have other sources about what transpired. If you do could you share it with us?

Suppose she had assaulted him, for example?

Don't you think it would be fair to hear his side of why he attempted to detain/arrest her? I know I would like to hear it before forming an opinion. As she was unharmed, he had obviously used one of the lower levels of the force continuum, yes? The lowest being, of course, that he ignored her. Then we wouldn't be here discussing it would we be? And the MSM and activists wouldn't have something to sensationalize.

You have already heard his side of the story. He apologised. End of story.

And the only thing that girl learned is to not trust police.

So I guess your listening to a member of the community and actually experienced it from start to finish is out of the question:



If all they learned is to "not trust police", then they're going to flunk the final - the real world, which is not exactly a "pool party". Then again, even pool parties can go pear-shaped.

What you dont seem to grasp is that it was all under control until that cop came on the scene. He inflamed it.

I dont need to listen to a witness that was there. The cop himself was there and has apologised.

What part of 'i apologise' dont you understand?

[Linky]

So I guess your listening to a member of the community and actually experienced it from start to finish is out of the question:

Not dissimilar to some posters here.

Such a good witness, she didn't know if it was a gun or a tazer.

Completely distorted view of events, eg the boys "attacked" the cop.

Her testimony is worthless and merely shows how blindly biased some people can be.

The bottom line is the cop himself knows he was out of line and resigned. His boss knows he was out of line and is considering what action to take. The girl's lawyer knows he was out of line and so will probably relish suing.

How people can keep defending him with distortions of events is beyond me.

Witness is so good she even knows that the cop didnt intend to use the gun.

But she does open up something, why did the cop draw his gun and not his taser?

I suppose it doesnt matter, all other cops chatting away fine and none of them had a weapon out, only the one cop who thought it was an episode of The Hunger Games.

[mikebike]

I have actually trained LA county Sheriff's department and LEA around the world in use of force continuum, escalation, weapons retention, etc, out of JTF6, EPIC, DOD, DOS, other, and direct National advisory roles. I have some years actually doing this.These similar standards are actually also employed in dignitary protection- low, mid, and high threat.

The kinder, "new" LAPD may be trying to revise the means by which officers stumble down the path of bad decisions following this above nexus that we are discussing, but the point remains valid, I think, that the officer seemed unaware he was actually fomenting the very situation he was responding to, and that the proximity, and likely intent seemed established when someone entered his personal AO. There is just no indication of any capability. The officer drew his gun, which in retrospect seems excessive, and immediately scanned his area to reassess the environment around him, that was previously obscured while he was doing some dumb ass shit on the ground with that kid. If that officer had not done this I would have failed him. It is only regrettable that this action, in context with his stupidity and unprofessionalism overall, winds up reinforcing his overall behavior. No, this action was the only thing he did correctly.

IMO, the Force Review Board sounds like a Board to Force a Review of generally recognized SOP. If anyone muses that deadly threat is only and always apparent immediately is a fool. Deadly intent or not should always be determined before firing a weapon, but this is not the same threshold as drawing a weapon. This man noted a peripheral force quickly approaching, drew his weapon, thereby repulsing the approach, noting it posed no threat, he scanned his area. Perfect. The problem is he is otherwise a jackass. I could actually see using this as a teaching example of how delicate and 'iffy' a decision could be in the field, under duress.

Excellent post and thank-you for the insights. The video I watched was from well before the incident in Texas so it was in no way a knee-jerk reaction to the present nexus. Also, obviously SOP is not static and changes over time and place. Wouldn't a Use of Force Review Board be an integral part of a feedback-loop designed to improve SOP over time and not something to ridicule?

[mikebike]

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

Was the 'perp' a nearly naked teenage girl in broad daylight.

If not your post is apologist rubbish.

You are aware that we are talking about the bigger male kid with a ciggy who charged the cop just prior to him drawing his weapon and not his actions with the young girl, right?

[MaeJoMTB]

In this particular simulation the officers being trained engage in a virtual reality scenario of responding to a home break-in call. At one point what appears to be the perp (african american) bursts out of the home right in front of one of the officers. They make eye contact, then the perp throws something at the officer and charges directly towards him. The simulation stops there and the class then discusses appropriate force options.

I think this scenario is closely analogous to what happened in McKinney - at its basic level both officers are confronted with a potential perp charging directly at them.

Was the 'perp' a nearly naked teenage girl in broad daylight.

If not your post is apologist rubbish.

You are aware that we are talking about the bigger male kid with a ciggy who charged the cop just prior to him drawing his weapon and not his actions with the young girl, right?

He got sacked for beating a nearly naked teen in broad daylight.

No need to discuss anything else the nutcase did.

What we should be discussing is why 3 other police haven't been suspended.

The ones that were standing around failing to protect the teen girl from a deranged and armed madman.

No excuse, I want 3 more police to answer for their failings.

Edited June 12, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Seastallion]

So I guess your listening to a member of the community and actually experienced it from start to finish is out of the question:

Not dissimilar to some posters here.

Such a good witness, she didn't know if it was a gun or a tazer.

Completely distorted view of events, eg the boys "attacked" the cop.

Her testimony is worthless and merely shows how blindly biased some people can be.

The bottom line is the cop himself knows he was out of line and resigned. His boss knows he was out of line and is considering what action to take. The girl's lawyer knows he was out of line and so will probably relish suing.

How people can keep defending him with distortions of events is beyond me.

Witness is so good she even knows that the cop didnt intend to use the gun.

But she does open up something, why did the cop draw his gun and not his taser?

I suppose it doesnt matter, all other cops chatting away fine and none of them had a weapon out, only the one cop who thought it was an episode of The Hunger Games.

And if you look at 2.00 of the video, the big white guy in blue shorts approaches the cop from one side, slightly behind, and then goes completely behind the cop. The cop didn't care about the white guy. That same white guy stands menacingly close to the cop later, when the cop is manhandling the girl...that didn't faze the cop either.

[MaxYakov]

So I guess your listening to a member of the community and actually experienced it from start to finish is out of the question:

Not dissimilar to some posters here.

Such a good witness, she didn't know if it was a gun or a tazer.

Completely distorted view of events, eg the boys "attacked" the cop.

Her testimony is worthless and merely shows how blindly biased some people can be.

The bottom line is the cop himself knows he was out of line and resigned. His boss knows he was out of line and is considering what action to take. The girl's lawyer knows he was out of line and so will probably relish suing.

How people can keep defending him with distortions of events is beyond me.

I never defended him, except for his decision to defend himself from Mr. Adrian Martin and his buddy. Most do defend that action as well.

As to his apology, which was delivered through his attorney, here - IBTimes:

“He regrets that his actions depict him and his department in a negative light. He apologizes to all who were offended,” Jane Biskin, Casebolt's attorney, told a news conference Wednesday."

So you were there and can give us an undistorted and unbiased view of how it went down?

Can you tell us more about what Ms Becton's lawyer knows?

And what the witnesses that were near Ms Becton when Cpl Casebolt approached her might know as well. I'm sure they will be truthful about what went down.

In my opinion, the former Cpl Casebolt and his attorney probably should have said nothing. His apology was not enough for those with an agenda - WaPo Article.

[Publicus]

That was not the last sentence in my reply, Genius.

I've never claimed to be a genius, but at least I can understand the reference was to the last sentence quoted, not the last sentence in your post...

Well then, you are probably the only one that does understand that twisted excuse.

You edited my reply, omitting a crucial sentence in a way that distorted the meaning of my reply. Very bad forum etiquette and it shouldn't take a genius to get that, should it?

But to answer your silly question: It is not my responsibility to pass judgment on Cpl Casebolt's handling of his detain/arrest of Ms Becton. She was unharmed is the bottom line. Maybe she learned something about showing respect to law enforcement officers and to not violently resist arrest.

It was not the two girls' right to interfere with Cpl Casebolt. That is now bystanders can get harmed and there could be unintended consequences.

Maybe she learned something about showing respect to law enforcement officers and to not violently resist arrest.

The vital question is whether the officer, all police officers throughout the country, and the far out right wingers have learned anything from this unfortunate incident. It is encouraging that Corporal Casebolt resigned, the chief of police there roundly criticized him, yet it is discouraging that the right keep trying to invent a riot that never took place and continues to try to scold and blame the kids at the scene

.

Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson)

Black Americans learned generations ago that standing idly by while the police trample their civil rights and human rights is passe' if not self-destructive. Look at all the well-mannered middle class African-American residents of the community being self-restrained and self-contained, shocked but composed. However, it's been the reality for some decades now that when cops do this they get bit back.

All the girl in this instance did was to figuratively roll up a newspaper and tap the berserk cop on his snorting snout.

The police need to face the reality that their generations of brutal opposition to black civil rights and movements has cost them irreparable harm throughout the United States and the world.

Irreparable damage.

Police need to recognize who and what they represent to black Americans from the beginning of American time. The McKinney police chief has demonstrated that there are police who learn and that are writing new chapters to American racial policing. The hard core right continues however to be unable to face and accept reality, which is why so many of 'em have self-deported to elsewhere yet they keep on banging on.