Foreigners That Are Exempted From The Visa

[dotcom]

Absolutely wrong!!!! One extension then get OUT!!! Original poster needs to get a one year multiple entry visa before he comes to Thailand.

[LoveDaBlues]

There are a lot of 'dodgy' people here who have no money and no WP. More than a few have warrants from their native countries. They scrounge around somehow and make the monthly 'visa run' usually on public transportation. The problem for Immigration; how to rid the country of this vermin but not run off some of the 'good folks' (with money, internet job maybe, etc.) in the process? Not an easy problem to solve. If I'm reading things right coming back in country by plane and you're okay.......the vermin can't afford this.

[dunez]

so 90 days is VOA and Tourist visa, are you 100% about this? sunbelt was posting earlier that u could do 3 x VOA's after a tourist visa had expired

[beats]

He already has his tourist visa. I believe he was asking for advice on what he could do with his visa to stay 6 months. I don't think that is absolutely wrong, but what do I know.

[enuff said]

.

Don't kid yourselves. Thai officials know all about this site and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were reading this page right now. What do they see?

GENERAL ATTITUDE: How can we beat the system?

FAQ: How can we pretend we are tourists for nine months out of the year and make fools of these Thai buggers?

MAJOR CONSENSUS: We white guys know how to run a country much better than any Thai person, obviously.

'nuff said

~

[cclub75]

I thought we were having a discussion about how the new system is going to affect us, I think a thai official would see it the same way. Not everyone has such a negative attitude.

You're playing with words...

NuffSaid made, albeit hard, a perfect summary of the situation : a lot of people, affected by the new rules, try to... beat the new system. It's obvious.

And I do agree that some Immigration officers must have a very good time perusing the ThaiVisa forums since a few days....

[G....]

Absolutely wrong!!!! One extension then get OUT!!! Original poster needs to get a one year multiple entry visa before he comes to Thailand.

Not absolutely wrong. He has a Visa on entering LOS which is fine then he aqquires 3 x 30 days VOE. From recent information this is fine BUT, I would recommend going to an embassy to apply for another Tourist Visa. Your a tourist on a 6 month holiday, nothing wrong or out of the norm with that.

[zeusbheld]

There are a lot of 'dodgy' people here who have no money and no WP. More than a few have warrants from their native countries. They scrounge around somehow and make the monthly 'visa run' usually on public transportation. The problem for Immigration; how to rid the country of this vermin but not run off some of the 'good folks' (with money, internet job maybe, etc.) in the process? Not an easy problem to solve. If I'm reading things right coming back in country by plane and you're okay.......the vermin can't afford this.

agree. most of the scuttlebutt and unofficial emphasizes that they're going after 30 day overland visa runners.

if this is a good translation of the legalese, it definitely leaves room for judgment on the immigration officer's part, when faced with perpetual weekenders, oil rig workers, etc. as to how often they can enter:

3. According the Article 13 (3) of the Ministerial Regulation which stipulated the criterions, practices and conditions regarding the verification, exception and the changes in the visa requirements B.E. 2545 (2002) dated on 16th August B.E. 2545 (2002), within six months period, the holder of passport or substitutive documents which issued by any country that is approved by the Minister of the Interior, under the approval of the Cabinet, to enter to temporarily stay in Thailand for tourism purpose, shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times. Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

people are fretting about how ambiguous this part is, i really dont think it is all that ambiguous.

the careful observer will note that a.) the situation is evolving, and subject to further change, so that fact that it contradicts previous statements from immigration that it would be 3 and only 3 entries means nothing, and b.) "several" and "three" are very different words. if they meant three, they'd have said three.

(all bets are off, of course, if it turns out the translation sucks but i suspect it's decent because it reads like legalese not thaiglish. they also very carefully word the "TOTAL PERIOD" part. i fail to see how anyone can read that and conclude that it's definitely only three entries, even if you only stay overnight. certainly, the document allows that, but doesn't mandate that.

short version: it certainly appears that, based on the wording of this document, frequent weekenders and people who use the airport as a hub are safe.

[dunez]

fair enough; maybe i took it personally cos i am not trying to beat the system, i am not trying to run the country and I am not trying to make a fool out of anyone. All I wanna know is can I stay for 6 months on a 60 day visa. Most are saying yes, dot.com said no...i am due to come in a couple of weeks and am worried.

[G....]

'nuff said the better! people are trying to work with the system that's available. Your just speculating what people are thinking, you don't know everyone's situation.

[beammeup]

can someone be a tourist for 6 - 12 months? Theres a hel_l of a lot to see in Thailand, I think it is perfectly plausable that if someone has enough money to support themselves they could legitimatly be a tourist for an extended period of time. People like ME who are getting tarred with the same brush as illegal teachers / criminals etc etc etc

Your lucky they are just tarring you, silly puritans would probably like to see you burned at the stake. On a more serious note, I guess the burning question is.... is it 90 days in 6 mo's or 3 stamps??? If its 90 days then it would make a big difference to travelers using Thailand as a hub and offshore workers and seamen doing 4 and 4 hitches, asian golfers, sailers etc. I dont think its going to stop the Banditos or the Perverts though. It makes much more cents. Hopefully they will look back 6 months and count the number of days you've been in Thailand. Thats how I read it.

[John K]

Can somebody clarify for me the following.

Basically this is an immigration law as I see it. To change a law in Thailand you need a parliament. Making up/ changing rules you need to be more than a caretaker. We have seen that when the caretaker government tried to change other things and were questioned or shot down. Does not the word caretaker imply taking care and not changing? Simply I am questioning the authority to do this without a proper government to vote on it. I still feel this is not at all what it appears to be.

[G....]

fair enough; maybe i took it personally cos i am not trying to beat the system, i am not trying to run the country and I am not trying to make a fool out of anyone. All I wanna know is can I stay for 6 months on a 60 day visa. Most are saying yes, dot.com said no...i am due to come in a couple of weeks and am worried.

dunez, no one can answer your question for sure but check this forum thread, if your a tourist LOS will welcome you with a Wai (if your an extended stay tourist with loads of VOA they might welcome you with a boot )

[rexall]

You're playing with words... NuffSaid made, albeit hard, a perfect summary of the situation : a lot of people, affected by the new rules, try to... beat the new system. It's obvious.

Fortunately, NuffSaid's rigid, moralistic view of the world merely expresses his opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Happily, not all people regard the law as some absolute authority. What a sad world that would be!

[taxin]

There are a lot of 'dodgy' people here who have no money and no WP. More than a few have warrants from their native countries. They scrounge around somehow and make the monthly 'visa run' usually on public transportation. The problem for Immigration; how to rid the country of this vermin but not run off some of the 'good folks' (with money, internet job maybe, etc.) in the process? Not an easy problem to solve. If I'm reading things right coming back in country by plane and you're okay.......the vermin can't afford this.

Yep ! Hit the nail right on the head there Blue !

And its this vermin that create the negative vibe such as claims that the economy will be affected, no tourists will come to Thailand, better to live in Malaysia, etc, etc...

I think this is fantastic news for the nation and will truely put Thailand back in its rightful place on the map, as the REAL Land of Smiles !!

Man what I wouldnt do now to be sat in the Cathouse on Soi 4 listening to all those whining cheapos complaining !

[Axel]

Can somebody clarify for me the following.

Basically this is an immigration law as I see it. To change a law in Thailand you need a parliament. Making up/ changing rules you need to be more than a caretaker. We have seen that when the caretaker government tried to change other things and were questioned or shot down. Does not the word caretaker imply taking care and not changing? Simply I am questioning the authority to do this without a proper government to vote on it. I still feel this is not at all what it appears to be.

I don't think there is a change in the law. Order No. 608 / 2549 by the RT Police only explains, how to interprete the rules set up in 2002. Guess, this is perfectly within their jurisdiction. They say the rules are there and this is how we, being in charge, deal with it.

[VanZam]

Can somebody clarify for me the following.

Basically this is an immigration law as I see it. To change a law in Thailand you need a parliament. Making up/ changing rules you need to be more than a caretaker. We have seen that when the caretaker government tried to change other things and were questioned or shot down. Does not the word caretaker imply taking care and not changing? Simply I am questioning the authority to do this without a proper government to vote on it. I still feel this is not at all what it appears to be.

This is not a new law, it has been on the books for a while now, they have just decided to enforce it.

As for the government... Any PM who can "decide" to hold off elections is not running a democratic country.. Thats dictatorship pure as it gets.

This new enforcement will lose alot of money for Thailand, but will have a cleaning affect.. the solution is simple, get a real visa before coming here.

If they were smart, they would allow 2 thrity day extentions on permits and charge 1900 for each. That way they can monitor exactly whats going on, and make alot of cash in the process.

But TIT

[Arn_old]

I´m 46 years old. I bought a house for 5.6 milj bath and Thai gov. will not allow me to stay there after dec. this year. I think there is more people like me out there. Can anybody explaine how to do. The prices on house will drop! Or???

[John K]

Can somebody clarify for me the following.

Basically this is an immigration law as I see it. To change a law in Thailand you need a parliament. Making up/ changing rules you need to be more than a caretaker. We have seen that when the caretaker government tried to change other things and were questioned or shot down. Does not the word caretaker imply taking care and not changing? Simply I am questioning the authority to do this without a proper government to vote on it. I still feel this is not at all what it appears to be.

I don't think there is a change in the law. Order No. 608 / 2549 by the RT Police only explains, how to interprete the rules set up in 2002. Guess, this is perfectly within their jurisdiction. They say the rules are there and this is how we, being in charge, deal with it.

Well even in post #1 it says;

1. Passport holder of the country that has made an agreement with the Thai government, according to the Interior Ministerial Regulation which stipulated the criterions, practices and conditions regarding the verification, exception and the changes in the Visa requirements B.E. 2545 (2002) dated on 16th August B.E. 2545 (2002), Article 13 (1), shall be permitted to have the right to stay in Thailand according to the period which is mutually agreed between the government of Thailand and the government of the passport holder.

I am not a lawyer but this amounts to denying someone entry. Seeing as there is no Thai government at the moment and I know the USA will not discuss any changes with a caretaker government...... I trust you see where I am going with this.

[HerbKohsamui]

I believe, it is now needed an explanation of George, why he has posted the alterations of the Thai-immigration law:

- at the time the Thai-government is not able to enact a new Law (sees situation >without a real government <

- I just been back from a 30 day permission-drive and we were 16 people and had no difficulties. On the question at the Officers what’s going on with the new regulations, the answer from the boss of the border was up to the private-servant, they would have no information over any alterations????!!!!!!! I believe 2 days ago George has written one very high officer from Bangkok has confirmed the alterations and simultaneously the info’s are delivered to all borders????? (No one has heard something from these officer’s at the borders, besides the questioning from unsure 30 day permission tourists.

- it seems someone like to play a game here with the foreigners, why I couldn’t explain put maybe everyone can find out themselves

- strangely also there are no alteration of the Thai-immigration law to be found on any of the official Thai Websites.

- if laws are enacted, those must be published in order to grant the guarantor the possibility to insights. (even if it would only be published in Thai)

- Also should be exactly described what will be changed; It is if it should give an alteration like described, that doesn't involve the Tourist visa it only will involve with the 30 day permission, to remain in Thailand.

Even to enforce an old law the order must be given by the government, witch doesn’t exist yet….

Maybe George can explain me this.

[stevie403]

Ok I work in Malaysia for 28 days and stay in Thailand for 28 days every month and have been doing this for the last 3 years i am a UK citizen,reading the latest ruling am i right in saying that it will not affect me as i go out of Thailand every second month so i am only there for a maximum of 168 days in any one year,can any one clarify if i have read this correctly .

[yulie]

"shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times . Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand."

So the only change from what was originally quoted, is that you can enter several times within the 90 days, rather then 3 times within the 90 days...

In other words, if you enter Thailand on a Visa Exemption on 1st July, you can leave and return as many times as you want between 1st July and 28th September as long as you don't stay for more than 30 days consecutively. After the 28th September, you will not be permitted to enter Thailand on a Visa Exemption until 1st January of the follwing year (6 months from the date you first entered on a Visa Exemption). You could, of course, return before that if you obtained a visa...

I came back from Bali and i've been staying in Chiangmai from April 2006 with VOA .So its all 6 months.And this coming 28th September i will have to go Maesai for another 30 days stamp.Will it still be okay?Are they gonna send me back to Myanmar side? Or they will only start count the stamp rom 1st October?

[VanZam]

I believe, it is now needed an explanation of George, why he has posted the alterations of the Thai-immigration law:

- at the time the Thai-government is not able to enact a new Law (sees situation >without a real government < This is not a new law, it has been on the books since 2002

- I just been back from a 30 day permission-drive and we were 16 people and had no difficulties. On the question at the Officers what’s going on with the new regulations, the answer from the boss of the border was up to the private-servant, they would have no information over any alterations????!!!!!!! I believe 2 days ago George has written one very high officer from Bangkok has confirmed the alterations and simultaneously the info’s are delivered to all borders????? (No one has heard something from these officer’s at the borders, besides the questioning from unsure 30 day permission tourists. The new enforcement starts from Oct 1st

- it seems someone like to play a game here with the foreigners, why I couldn’t explain put maybe everyone can find out themselves

- strangely also there are no alteration of the Thai-immigration law to be found on any of the official Thai Websites. Again, this is not a new law, and the official word only came today, not giving much time to update websites

- if laws are enacted, those must be published in order to grant the guarantor the possibility to insights. (even if it would only be published in Thai) Did you read the first post of this topic?

- Also should be exactly described what will be changed; It is if it should give an alteration like described, that doesn't involve the Tourist visa it only will involve with the 30 day permission, to remain in Thailand. It HAS been exactly described, read the first post.

Even to enforce an old law the order must be given by the government, witch doesn’t exist yet…. Thailand currently has a caretaker government, they can do whatever they see fit.

Maybe George can explain me this.

Edited September 14, 2006 by VanZam

[meom]

I´m 46 years old. I bought a house for 5.6 milj bath and Thai gov. will not allow me to stay there after dec. this year. I think there is more people like me out there. Can anybody explaine how to do. The prices on house will drop! Or???

It's not exactly like that. They will allow you to stay there no problem provided they allow you to stay in the country first

Somebody mentioned somewhere get a visa and if you can't get a visa for whatever reason you have to use your imagination and come up with your own plan.

[Richard W]

3. According the Article 13 (3) of the Ministerial Regulation which stipulated the criterions, practices and conditions regarding the verification, exception and the changes in the visa requirements B.E. 2545 (2002) dated on 16th August B.E. 2545 (2002), within six months period, the holder of passport or substitutive documents which issued by any country that is approved by the Minister of the Interior, under the approval of the Cabinet, to enter to temporarily stay in Thailand for tourism purpose, shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times. Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

Perhaps we should ask for an authoritative translation into some computing language!

But for the 'from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand', I would suggest that the key point for very frequent visitors is that the immigration card asks for the length of stay. If visas were granted on that basis, then regular weekend visits need not be a problem - say 3 days permitted entry a visit, 26 times 3 = 78. However, I rather suspect that there would only be a few different periods of stay actually granted, simply because of the errors that will occur if a stamp has to be adjusted for each visitor.

This is still bad new for the 28-days in 28-days out group, because there are 26 weeks, not 24 weeks, in six months. Some of those 28-day periods are going to be curtailed.

However, the phrase 'total period' is not defined, so there are many different meanings. But then, aren't Thai laws and regulations meant to be unclear? I seriously doubt that the Thai is any clearer. Also, remember the Thai ideal - 'kham diao ko pho'.

I was trying to calculate what the 28 days on, 28 days off group could manage in Thailand, and it occurred to me that 'from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand' might relate to the method of calculation. One method of doing it is to look at the periods in Thailand without a prior visa over the past six months, count from the start of the first period that overlaps the six months, and determine how many days remain.

[Arn_old]

Thailand, during low season is living of that people they now will send out. I can not belive it. Its better Thai gov. sell 3 month visa for 4500 - 5000 bath. Then there will be no visa run and Thailand earn money.

[Sturbuc]

"shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times . Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand."

So the only change from what was originally quoted, is that you can enter several times within the 90 days, rather then 3 times within the 90 days...

In other words, if you enter Thailand on a Visa Exemption on 1st July, you can leave and return as many times as you want between 1st July and 28th September as long as you don't stay for more than 30 days consecutively. After the 28th September, you will not be permitted to enter Thailand on a Visa Exemption until 1st January of the follwing year (6 months from the date you first entered on a Visa Exemption). You could, of course, return before that if you obtained a visa...

I realize there need be nothing at all logical about the authorities' reading of the language you are quoting, but I do want to point out that, even at their worst, I doubt Thai Immigration would read the language as illogically as you do.

The phrase "from the first day" would seem to me to be obviously recognizable legal verbage meaning that the niney days of accumulated time for any six-month period is to be counted beginning with the first day the passport holder enters the country. It would not seem to serve any logical purpose to torture the language to mean that some sort of ninety day clock runs from the first day you enter the country and, no matter how much time you spend or do not spend in the country, that you cannot enter for another ninety days after that clock goes off.

I respectfully suggest that, particularly as a relatively new poster, you should be far more cautious about giving people what amounts to legal advice when you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, maybe an example might help....

1st entry: 01.01. -> 6-months-period ends 30.06. New period starts as early as your next arrival after 01.07. . Within this 6 months, you might stay 90 days at once or in pieces. The only thing what i wonder is WHEN they set the clock to fix your "first entry" whenyou come to LOS regulary.

i fully agree that you must have a proper visa if you intend to live in another country. But in case i would change my plans spontaneously:

- could i get a proper visa somerwhere in Thailand or in my home country only?

- if only for intermediate:

- stay on with tourist-visa for 30/90 days,

-i wonder about the procedures: many people have more than one valid nationality/passport.

But what will be registrated? Your name and face (physically you) or your passport

(nationality,number: logically you). In the second case the 3-in-6 does only mean frequent

travel...

- somebody tried to pass the immigrations again by a walk through Don Muang?

Anyway, in my home country nobody is permitted to do any paid job with a tourist visa only. So why coplain about this in LOS?

[grayhat]

I believe, it is now needed an explanation of George, why he has posted the alterations of the Thai-immigration law:

- at the time the Thai-government is not able to enact a new Law (sees situation >without a real government <

- I just been back from a 30 day permission-drive and we were 16 people and had no difficulties. On the question at the Officers what’s going on with the new regulations, the answer from the boss of the border was up to the private-servant, they would have no information over any alterations????!!!!!!! I believe 2 days ago George has written one very high officer from Bangkok has confirmed the alterations and simultaneously the info’s are delivered to all borders????? (No one has heard something from these officer’s at the borders, besides the questioning from unsure 30 day permission tourists.

- it seems someone like to play a game here with the foreigners, why I couldn’t explain put maybe everyone can find out themselves

- strangely also there are no alteration of the Thai-immigration law to be found on any of the official Thai Websites.

- if laws are enacted, those must be published in order to grant the guarantor the possibility to insights. (even if it would only be published in Thai)

- Also should be exactly described what will be changed; It is if it should give an alteration like described, that doesn't involve the Tourist visa it only will involve with the 30 day permission, to remain in Thailand.

Even to enforce an old law the order must be given by the government, witch doesn’t exist yet….

Maybe George can explain me this.

Herb,

I realize you have just joined thaivisa.com a few days ago, please don't demand explanations from George or the OP Sunbelt Asia. It is not their responsibility for your visa knowledge. All the posted news articles are from sources, the discussions around these topics are the opinions of thaivisa members.

[jezchesters]

Can somebody clarify for me the following.

Basically this is an immigration law as I see it. To change a law in Thailand you need a parliament. Making up/ changing rules you need to be more than a caretaker. We have seen that when the caretaker government tried to change other things and were questioned or shot down. Does not the word caretaker imply taking care and not changing? Simply I am questioning the authority to do this without a proper government to vote on it. I still feel this is not at all what it appears to be.

Not at all. The UK equivalent (IND) frequently change regulations without having to go to parliament.

[fire and ice]

I have an APEC card (Australian) that gives me a 90-day business visa on arrival (so long as I land at the airport).

Does anyone know if there is any official limit to the number of entries I can make in a year or within 6-months?

The regulation here seems to have the 6-month limit in a different section of the law so it appears it does not apply to APEC cardholders.

I have heard that the APEC card is not supposed to let you live in a country so they may in their discretion stop me from making repeat back to back entries, but is there an official law or policy on this? Or is it so rare that they haven't got one yet?

In any case, I do not live in Thailand (yet) but I spend a lot of time there, usually most of Oct - Feb, plus 2 short trips in April & August.