newnative Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I would say never buy in Thai name--don't listen to what the salesman tells you. The hassle isn't worth it and most buyers will not want to buy your condo because it is in Thai name. On the plus side, I think city center is a good place to own a rental condo as there isn't as much competition for renters and it's a popular area. A condo with a view might have been a better choice. Jomtien has a lot of condos with many more on the way and it may be hard to find renters down the road for all these 'theme park' condo resorts being built or just finished-- Amazon, Seven Seas, Atlantis, Laguna, Venetian, the Acadians, Maldives, Savanna Sands, and so on. If you buy in Jomtien, shoot for something fairly new on the ocean or at least with ocean view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 When it comes time to sell, why not sell the business structure and the property it owns, all in one go, to the same person. The property doesn't change owners (on the chanote at least), the business changes directors. Just buying over the headache of an illegal holding. Try finding 6 new local shareholders that are trustworthy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh2121 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Oh dear, dear, dear. Look around the agents. They have hundreds, maybe thousands of condos in and around Pattaya for sale or for rent. There are no customers and developers are still building. Some developments have already stopped. Why? The small developers relied on pre-sales to fund completion. There have been few or no pre-sales. The banks are pressing for interest on the initial loans. The condo blocks that are completed are mostly empty...no buyers. Take a look around at night and see how many have lights on. Rent it out or sell in 2-3 years time? You'll need a lot of luck to manage either. The current situation could eventually see the collapse of one or more Thai banks as they'll be the owners of lots of property but without enough cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcab Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 When it comes time to sell, why not sell the business structure and the property it owns, all in one go, to the same person. The property doesn't change owners (on the chanote at least), the business changes directors. Just buying over the headache of an illegal holding. Try finding 6 new local shareholders that are trustworthy... Agreed, it's not an ideal situation, but it's an alternative that hasn't been mentioned. The OP bought into the scheme, so there is hope someone else will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteman Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Dirty Cash has gone very quite maybe he is now crying in his bake beans and runny eggs breakfast and thinking if only. Do not worry if you have more cash to clean the sooth sayers will take it off you again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenon Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Donald Trump has discovered Pattaya as an investors paradise and "dirtycash" is only his scout. Buy whatever you can, before Donald Trump / dirtycash gobbles it all up and there will be nothing left to buy. ================== Never mind: I would never give permission to my daughters to marry a Farang that hovers around a public forum, sailing under the name of "dirtycash". Cheers. It that were true then one should buy and enjoy the benefits of tight supply. But as usual with anything Trump, it is only a combover, not real. 5555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenon Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Chinese have been buying in Cali for a long time. Green cards for parents who give birth in Cali and the husband working in China sends money out so it is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 ^^^ There is NO evidence that the Chinese are buying condos or have a desire to live long term in Thailand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenterry Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I would never buy a condo apartment, because, unlike houses, condos depreciate in value as they get older. And that's even if there is good management in place. Condos are for renting, and in Pattaya there are some good 32' apartments at reasonable costs. The only property investment worthwhile is buying land in joint partnership with a Thai person or company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtycash Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Company ownership has many purchasing benefits including lower prices, better payment terms, special incentives, or a combination of these perks. Companies can also be bought and sold without paying transfer tax associated with Foreign ownership. Because of this, it is typically the choice for investors seeking maximum leverage and/or the best possible rental returns or investors buying multiple units. Many avid experienced investors prefer company ownership. just read the above on remax website. i bought pre sale for 2.5M inc full furniture package. when complete they should sell for around 2.8M ( thai company name ) if i decide to sell then hopefully i make a bit of a profit upon completion, failing that i will lower price and try to claw back my money ( if i still want to sell that is ) failing that i will rent it, failing renting it i will live in it or lend it to friends and family and in the end i have allready made a last will and testement to leave it to my 6 yr old daughter. so all in all i do not think i have lost out. reason i bought it was location for rental market, lots of guys want to be near soi buakao area central area. now if you go to pattaya and rent in a hotel it will cost you in or around 30k per month and thats in a mid range guesthouse/hotel ,basic room maybe with a pool. some basic guesthouses charging 1200 - 1500 baht per night in high /mid season soi buakao. if you are paying that kind of money then why not rent nearby in a decent condo where you can relax and call your own , do your own cooking, do your own thing , have a swim, go to gym, have a sauna/jacuzzi , have a drink at bar all inside the development , so a big saving your money both for rental plus entertainment. staying in a hotel central pattaya you feel the urge to go out drinking every night . i know from expirience that by staying outside the main party central area i will not spend even half of what i would spend if staying in soi buakao hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenon Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 ^^^ There is NO evidence that the Chinese are buying condos or have a desire to live long term in Thailand... Chinese will buy to make money or to improve their lives. Not sure Thailand fits the bill for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 When it comes time to sell, why not sell the business structure and the property it owns, all in one go, to the same person. The property doesn't change owners (on the chanote at least), the business changes directors. Because nobody in their right mind buys a company someone else set up to buy a condo. All sorts of hidden expenses, unpaid taxes, business debts can be easily hidden and the buyer has to pay whatever turns up later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I think with the right marketing you could make some condo sales to Chinese buyers--not to live here long-term but as getaway places to cut loose and have some fun--a lot of China is a fairly short plane ride away. There is definitely a growing middle class and upper-middle class in China so it might be only a matter of time. A large family could buy a condo for different family members to take turns using. I think some of the large condo developers have sent sales teams to some Chinese cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingTourist Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Company ownership has many purchasing benefits including lower prices, better payment terms, special incentives, or a combination of these perks. Companies can also be bought and sold without paying transfer tax associated with Foreign ownership. Because of this, it is typically the choice for investors seeking maximum leverage and/or the best possible rental returns or investors buying multiple units. Many avid experienced investors prefer company ownership. For a foreigner, it is best to fully own the condo (if they pay for it). I sincerely doubt you can find anyone who will argue otherwise, except someone trying to sell you a condo from the Thai quota. And the latter is exactly what Matrix is doing. They are building CCR targeted at foreigners, but legally foreigners can only buy 49% of the floorspace, which is why Matrix are giving a discount and possibly other special incentives (like better payment terms) to anyone willing to go via the Thai company construction, but it doesn’t change that this is (IMHO) a shit sandwich. That you save transfer tax is at best trying to make lemonade from lemons, because you will instead pay yearly accounting fees, you have the worry of being audited, you might bear the company setup costs, and it might take a lot longer for you to find a buyer, because you’re effectively selling something where you (on paper) own less than 50%. I can’t for a moment believe that “many avid experienced investors prefer company ownership”. In your case, you can pay 2.7m and own 100% and be 100% legal, or you can pay 2.5m and own less than 50% via a setup of questionable legality. I do not know how Matrix handles this Thai company, you should ask about it. For example the use of nominee shareholders is forbidden by Thai law and can lead to fines and imprisonment. just read the above on remax website. i bought pre sale for 2.5M inc full furniture package. when complete they should sell for around 2.8M ( thai company name ) if i decide to sell then hopefully i make a bit of a profit upon completion, failing that i will lower price and try to claw back my money ( if i still want to sell that is ) failing that i will rent it, failing renting it i will live in it or lend it to friends and family and in the end i have allready made a last will and testement to leave it to my 6 yr old daughter. so all in all i do not think i have lost out. I am glad to hear that you are not bummed out about the situation. Most in this thread is just conjecture, and the Thai company setup is used a lot, so it is unlikely that it’ll give you issues beyond annual accounting fees, and make the condo slightly harder to sell. But you should still have unrestricted access to the condo, either for your own use, or for renting it out. As for immediately flipping the condo, I don’t think this will leave you with a lot of profit, because with other things being equal, people prefer to buy directly from the developer, so you’ll need to undercut Matrix. If you go via a real estate agent, you need to pay 5% commission, and then there are the lawyer fees for setting up your Thai company and transferring ownership. All of those expenses need to be taken from the 300k that Matrix say they’ll increase the price when the condo is finished. reason i bought it was location for rental market, lots of guys want to be near soi buakao area central area. now if you go to pattaya and rent in a hotel it will cost you in or around 30k per month and thats in a mid range guesthouse/hotel ,basic room maybe with a pool. […] If you are right about Soi Buakhao being an attractive location to stay near (which I believe you are) then I think your rental potential looks good. I tried to book a condo (via flipkey.com) in Pattaya for two weeks in November and the map below shows vacancy. Pretty much nothing around Soi Buakhao. Total number of available condos was 319 (but scattered around greater Pattaya). Of these, 215 were studios/one-bedroom. Considering that Pattaya sees hundreds of thousands of “tourists” during high season, the number is certainly not alarmingly high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtycash Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Company ownership has many purchasing benefits including lower prices, better payment terms, special incentives, or a combination of these perks. Companies can also be bought and sold without paying transfer tax associated with Foreign ownership. Because of this, it is typically the choice for investors seeking maximum leverage and/or the best possible rental returns or investors buying multiple units. Many avid experienced investors prefer company ownership. For a foreigner, it is best to fully own the condo (if they pay for it). I sincerely doubt you can find anyone who will argue otherwise, except someone trying to sell you a condo from the Thai quota. And the latter is exactly what Matrix is doing. They are building CCR targeted at foreigners, but legally foreigners can only buy 49% of the floorspace, which is why Matrix are giving a discount and possibly other special incentives (like better payment terms) to anyone willing to go via the Thai company construction, but it doesn’t change that this is (IMHO) a shit sandwich. That you save transfer tax is at best trying to make lemonade from lemons, because you will instead pay yearly accounting fees, you have the worry of being audited, you might bear the company setup costs, and it might take a lot longer for you to find a buyer, because you’re effectively selling something where you (on paper) own less than 50%. I can’t for a moment believe that “many avid experienced investors prefer company ownership”. In your case, you can pay 2.7m and own 100% and be 100% legal, or you can pay 2.5m and own less than 50% via a setup of questionable legality. I do not know how Matrix handles this Thai company, you should ask about it. For example the use of nominee shareholders is forbidden by Thai law and can lead to fines and imprisonment. just read the above on remax website. i bought pre sale for 2.5M inc full furniture package. when complete they should sell for around 2.8M ( thai company name ) if i decide to sell then hopefully i make a bit of a profit upon completion, failing that i will lower price and try to claw back my money ( if i still want to sell that is ) failing that i will rent it, failing renting it i will live in it or lend it to friends and family and in the end i have allready made a last will and testement to leave it to my 6 yr old daughter. so all in all i do not think i have lost out. I am glad to hear that you are not bummed out about the situation. Most in this thread is just conjecture, and the Thai company setup is used a lot, so it is unlikely that it’ll give you issues beyond annual accounting fees, and make the condo slightly harder to sell. But you should still have unrestricted access to the condo, either for your own use, or for renting it out. As for immediately flipping the condo, I don’t think this will leave you with a lot of profit, because with other things being equal, people prefer to buy directly from the developer, so you’ll need to undercut Matrix. If you go via a real estate agent, you need to pay 5% commission, and then there are the lawyer fees for setting up your Thai company and transferring ownership. All of those expenses need to be taken from the 300k that Matrix say they’ll increase the price when the condo is finished. reason i bought it was location for rental market, lots of guys want to be near soi buakao area central area. now if you go to pattaya and rent in a hotel it will cost you in or around 30k per month and thats in a mid range guesthouse/hotel ,basic room maybe with a pool. […] If you are right about Soi Buakhao being an attractive location to stay near (which I believe you are) then I think your rental potential looks good. I tried to book a condo (via flipkey.com) in Pattaya for two weeks in November and the map below shows vacancy. Pretty much nothing around Soi Buakhao. Total number of available condos was 319 (but scattered around greater Pattaya). Of these, 215 were studios/one-bedroom. Considering that Pattaya sees hundreds of thousands of “tourists” during high season, the number is certainly not alarmingly high. good info . cheers. though why do a lot of foreigners buy in thai company name ? and do i have an option to put it into foreign name ? i looked at price plan now for CCR the units are around 95% sold all pre sale . Edited June 21, 2015 by dirtycash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 though why do a lot of foreigners buy in thai company name ? and do i have an option to put it into foreign name ? i looked at price plan now for CCR the units are around 95% sold all pre sale . People buy condos in company name because they think that it will save them a little money, or because they cant show proper provenance for the funds. What they generally dont take account of are the ownership and winding-up costs of owning a Thai company, and the difficulty they may have in selling later. If the building you are looking at is 95% sold then it's a safe bet that the remaining 5% are not in the farang quota. You might like to ask yourself why they havent been sold already and the answer may give you a clue about the relative desirability of company name units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 though why do a lot of foreigners buy in thai company name ? and do i have an option to put it into foreign name ? i looked at price plan now for CCR the units are around 95% sold all pre sale . People buy condos in company name because they think that it will save them a little money, or because they cant show proper provenance for the funds. What they generally dont take account of are the ownership and winding-up costs of owning a Thai company, and the difficulty they may have in selling later. If the building you are looking at is 95% sold then it's a safe bet that the remaining 5% are not in the farang quota. You might like to ask yourself why they havent been sold already and the answer may give you a clue about the relative desirability of company name units. More likely only 5% sold, and the developers are lying (as usual). If they told the truth about being desperate to sell, any buyer would have wanted a big discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little mary sunshine Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Years ago my friend a wise, Thai/Chinese businessman told me: 1. Believe little or nothing that the condo sales people Tell you. All they want is their commission . 2. As a Foreigner, Only, Only buy in the 49% allotted to Foreigners. 3. Look for quality. 4. Stay away from anything like "Buying in a company name, you will have problems later trying to sell the Place. People, (Foreigners with the money are freighted By these "deals" 5. Never buy until the project/complex is completed, and the Parking lot has been paved, FOR THE SECOND TIME,you Will then see if you should invest in the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyjay Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) I rent here, great owner 78sqm...B9500/mo...Been here 4 yrs Will stay 15 more I hope.....Where would I BUY...HONOLULU 555555555555555555555555565555555555 That sounds like a super deal. Anymore available? Could you provide the location, name of building or address? Photos and contact persons? Edited June 21, 2015 by joeyjay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little mary sunshine Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Sorry, I have the best deal in all Pattaya. Several Other units with pool view too but renting for between 14-16K B/mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldnguy Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 ^^^ There is NO evidence that the Chinese are buying condos or have a desire to live long term in Thailand... Are you serious? A huge percentage of the population is Chinese and they have lived here a very long time and continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenon Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 ^^^ There is NO evidence that the Chinese are buying condos or have a desire to live long term in Thailand... Are you serious? A huge percentage of the population is Chinese and they have lived here a very long time and continue to do so. 2 different things! 2 different times in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtycash Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Oh dear, dear, dear. Look around the agents. They have hundreds, maybe thousands of condos in and around Pattaya for sale or for rent. There are no customers and developers are still building. Some developments have already stopped. Why? The small developers relied on pre-sales to fund completion. There have been few or no pre-sales. The banks are pressing for interest on the initial loans. The condo blocks that are completed are mostly empty...no buyers. Take a look around at night and see how many have lights on. Rent it out or sell in 2-3 years time? You'll need a lot of luck to manage either. The current situation could eventually see the collapse of one or more Thai banks as they'll be the owners of lots of property but without enough cash. no, i dont see that. your just being negitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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