Mass shooting at Charleston church in South Carolina leaves 9 dead

[beechguy]

-snip-

Gun control is not the way, it is part of the way. Other things have to also happen, But gun control , will do exactly what the sentence implies, "control guns"....

My idea of gun control is hitting what I aim at. Your idea is already in place. It was already illegal for the perp in this OP to have that gun there. Criminals by definition don't obey laws. There are 300 million guns in private hands in the US and if you tried to take them you'd only get them from the law abiding. Tens of millions would filter through the criminal network leaving criminals armed and honest people disarmed.

There is probably a lot of tough times ahead what with jihadists and all. America will be the last country to have its politics controlled by those people. Maybe it already is. No one is going to pull off their shit in my neighborhood and whatever puzzy people in Europe or Australia want to do is up to them.

See ya.

You are missing the point NS

all criminals for what ever crime do not obey the law, that is what makes them criminals, that does not mean we don't have laws against them.

No one wants to take any ones guns away, only the people that should not have them.

and it has already being established that the laws we have are not adequate.

Remove the private sale exclusion, establish an easily accessible comprehensive nationwide database identifying those who should not have them,

What is so unreasonable about that?

If we can do it with drivers licences, why cant we do it with gun licencing?

The reason we don't think it will work, is that there too many unregistered firearms floating around. Do you really think people are going to ask their customer to submit to a background check, when they working out of a crack house, trunk of a car? Do you realize how many gangs, make money from the illegal fire arms trade?

Something else that's common, is people leaving fire arms to family members when they die. Do a little research on Hillary's buddy Vince Foster. He inherited at least two hand guns from his father, he didn't bother to register them when moved to Washington D.C. but supposedly used one to commit suicide.

That's why when you think you are making sense, you are just proving how little of a clue, that you have about the reality in the U.S.

Think it's easy to keep tabs on weapons? Ask the DOJ about the 1800 or so fire arms they lost in the so called "Fast and Furious II" operation.

Edited June 28, 2015 by beechguy

[sirineou]

-snip-

Gun control is not the way, it is part of the way. Other things have to also happen, But gun control , will do exactly what the sentence implies, "control guns"....

My idea of gun control is hitting what I aim at. Your idea is already in place. It was already illegal for the perp in this OP to have that gun there. Criminals by definition don't obey laws. There are 300 million guns in private hands in the US and if you tried to take them you'd only get them from the law abiding. Tens of millions would filter through the criminal network leaving criminals armed and honest people disarmed.

There is probably a lot of tough times ahead what with jihadists and all. America will be the last country to have its politics controlled by those people. Maybe it already is. No one is going to pull off their shit in my neighborhood and whatever puzzy people in Europe or Australia want to do is up to them.

See ya.

You are missing the point NS

all criminals for what ever crime do not obey the law, that is what makes them criminals, that does not mean we don't have laws against them.

No one wants to take any ones guns away, only the people that should not have them.

and it has already being established that the laws we have are not adequate.

Remove the private sale exclusion, establish an easily accessible comprehensive nationwide database identifying those who should not have them,

What is so unreasonable about that?

If we can do it with drivers licences, why cant we do it with gun licencing?

The reason we don't think it will work, is that there too many unregistered firearms floating around. Do you really think people are going to ask their customer to submit to a background check, when they working out of a crack house, trunk of a car? Do you realize how many gangs, make money from the illegal fire arms trade?

Something else that's common, is people leaving fire arms to family members when they die. Do a little research on Hillary's buddy Vince Foster. He inherited at least two hand guns from his father, he didn't bother to register them when moved to Washington D.C. but supposedly used one to commit suicide.

That's why when you think you are making sense, you are just proving how little of a clue, that you have about the reality in the U.S.

Think it's easy to keep tabs on weapons? Ask the DOJ about the 1800 or so fire arms they lost in the so called "Fast and Furious II" operation.

I live in the US and I am well versed in situations here, some one is thinking that is making sense but is not , and is not me.

all that you say is true but falls under the category of illegal activity. This is why we have a police department and a court system.

these two institutions deal with illegal activity.

So let's make it difficult for people that should not have guns to buy them legally, and let them try to buy them illegally.

Some will not do it out of fear of getting caught, others will find buying them illegally not as easily accessible as buying them at a gun show, and will be discouraged, many more will not be able to afford the more expensive illegal guns, and those who are not afraid of the law, cant find illegal outlets, and can afford it, we let the legal system deal with.

What is unreasonable about that??

[beechguy]

SIrineou, I wouldn't call it unreasonable, but perhaps unrealistic. Possibly based on flawed information, that Obama and other politicians continue to use, but no surprise that they would lie.

Colorado seems to have everything you are asking for, see how it's working for them.

http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/politics/2014/07/25/gun-control-colorado/13158581/

Granted, a relative handful got blocked, but that doesn't mean that they didn't obtain a weapon by other means.

[Chicog]

So much for the positive reaction to the Charleston murders.

There have been at least four black churches set ablaze across the south since the shooting, identified as arson.

Very, very sad.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Chicog

[JDGRUEN]

It is ELECTION PERIOD ... Primaries in the Spring and a For Real election slated for November ... no Senator -- no Member of the House is going to support any action on gun control unless that person is die hard Liberal-Leftist Democrat. And Democrats are in the Minority in Both Houses. Do the numbers -- do the overhanging elections ...

Charleston was a terrible tragedy... people debate endlessly about the gun control issue that comes up in this kind of senseless mass murder - by a mentally defective - drugged nutcase..

However, no one who has strong feelings on either side of the gun control issue is going to change their minds by what is said on this forum - IMO.

I believe we need NutCase Control -- not gun control ... all over America existing sets of laws seriously hinder and most often do not allow confining known nutcases ... This include almost every one of the mass murderers of the past 15 years... These guys - including this Roof fellow was known to have serious mental issues ... but too many hurdles -- too many sensibilities - so they all get loose and do their nutcase thing ... and we debate about guns.

[Johpa]

Not a "sneer" at all.

The song was not written to be sung in that manner...end of story.

I do not like to hear a personalized version of the National Anthem either. I don't like it when Lady Gaga (or whoever) does their own rendition of that.

The song means too much to too many people to be treated that way.

A sneer seems to be how you approach life in general. The song is a folk hymn, most poignant perhaps when sung by a non-professional singer such as the president. Obama sang it from the heart in a very traditional manner. This was not Lady Gaga or Hendrix reinventing a national anthem. Even as an atheist, I was moved by the president, clearly someone who sings only marginally better than myself, willing to sing the song in public, from the heart. The song does mean many things to many people, but clearly you are not one of those people for whom the Christian concept of grace has any resonance as you clearly have much to work through in order to remove your global sneer towards humanity, get down from your high horse, and become more graceful in your attitudes towards others.

[beechguy]

Not a "sneer" at all.

The song was not written to be sung in that manner...end of story.

I do not like to hear a personalized version of the National Anthem either. I don't like it when Lady Gaga (or whoever) does their own rendition of that.

The song means too much to too many people to be treated that way.

A sneer seems to be how you approach life in general. The song is a folk hymn, most poignant perhaps when sung by a non-professional singer such as the president. Obama sang it from the heart in a very traditional manner. This was not Lady Gaga or Hendrix reinventing a national anthem. Even as an atheist, I was moved by the president, clearly someone who sings only marginally better than myself, willing to sing the song in public, from the heart. The song does mean many things to many people, but clearly you are not one of those people for whom the Christian concept of grace has any resonance as you clearly have much to work through in order to remove your global sneer towards humanity, get down from your high horse, and become more graceful in your attitudes towards others.

Chuck simply stated his opinion, fact that you think you are correct, is simply your opinion. Now, why don't you scurry back to your room, and untwist your little pink knickers.

[chuckd]

Not a "sneer" at all.

The song was not written to be sung in that manner...end of story.

I do not like to hear a personalized version of the National Anthem either. I don't like it when Lady Gaga (or whoever) does their own rendition of that.

The song means too much to too many people to be treated that way.

A sneer seems to be how you approach life in general. The song is a folk hymn, most poignant perhaps when sung by a non-professional singer such as the president. Obama sang it from the heart in a very traditional manner. This was not Lady Gaga or Hendrix reinventing a national anthem. Even as an atheist, I was moved by the president, clearly someone who sings only marginally better than myself, willing to sing the song in public, from the heart. The song does mean many things to many people, but clearly you are not one of those people for whom the Christian concept of grace has any resonance as you clearly have much to work through in order to remove your global sneer towards humanity, get down from your high horse, and become more graceful in your attitudes towards others.

Chuck simply stated his opinion, fact that you think you are correct, is simply your opinion. Now, why don't you scurry back to your room, and untwist your little pink knickers.

After reading the personal attack from Johpa, I was ready to fire off a response.

Then I read beechguy's retort, laughed out loud and realized I couldn't add anything to what he said.

You have been answered, johpa.

[Publicus]

He did no such thing.

"By taking down the Confederate Flag, we exercise God's grace . . . and let;s not stop there . . ." So its God's will or that is what God wants. Did God tell him that last night?

Maybe Jeremiah Wright wrote that part of his speech.

I have no idea who thought he should make an attempt at singing "Amazing Grace". I love the song and want it played at my funeral but I don't want the Bourbon Street version of it.

I love the song and want it played at my funeral but I don't want the Bourbon Street version of it.

Then don't have it.

Atheists like the song and can be moved by it.

So if I want it sung and in a particular style, to include by a particular person, then respect my choice just as I would respect your choice not to have it done in a style and manner you might not like, or by a person you singularly do not like.

Mutual respect of differences is not so tough in a civil society.

Aside from the bad taste of posing with the Stars and Bars — are prom pictures with guns a thing now? Is the next step after this guns as wedding accessories?

Yet every society has its limits.

During his singing, Barack Obama said the name of each of the nine dead victims. That's no so tough to respect either, to include how it was done, i.e., in the singing of the song during the service of the moment for the one specifically being eulogized.

[chuckd]

Hey, if you can get Obama to come and serenade at your funeral, power to you. You can have him sing anything you want.

He's going to be out of a job in January 2017. Maybe he can start singing at funerals for a second career.

By the way, why would an atheist want "Amazing Grace" sung anywhere, much less at a funeral?

[MaxYakov]

Jeb Bush is not going to rock the bost with the NRA.

New gun control measures are not the way to prevent mass killings such as the shooting deaths of nine people in a South Carolina church, the Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush said on Saturday.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/28/gun-control-wont-prevent-another-charleston-style-shooting-says-jeb-bush

No one has said that gun control is the way to prevent such events, For Jeb to make the statement that he did is, at the very least disingenuous, and a political move . One would hope he is inteligent enough to understand the following.

Gun control is not the way, it is part of the way. Other things have to also happen, But gun control , will do exactly what the sentence implies, "control guns".....Control the instrument by which such events are carries out,

It will not eliminate the desire of some, it will not make people kinder, more tolerant. smarter......

But it will make it more difficult for some, not all but some of the idiots, to get their hands on the instrument

Let's all be honest

and on the spirit of honesty let's also admit that it probably would not had helped in this instance, If I understand this correctly, he was not as of yet convicted of anything and as such should not be prevented from buying a gun,

a person is presumed innocent until convicted , and innocent people should not be prevented from buying guns.

But making guns more difficult to get could, I emphasize could, not would, had discouraged him

.

"... a person is presumed innocent until convicted , and innocent people should not be prevented from buying guns."

Yes, let's be really honest and realize that they are to be "presumed innocent" only during their trial and must be presumed so by the jurors.

The justice system could not effectively operate any other way.

This is not to say that my opinion is that Dylann Root should or should not have been allowed to buy a gun legally with pending charges.

[Chicog]

Cleverly masked racism is alive and well in America.

There will always be some excuse.

"Don't like the way he sang the song", etc.

I'd actually have more respect if folk just said what they really mean.

[beechguy]

Cleverly masked racism is alive and well in America.

There will always be some excuse.

"Don't like the way he sang the song", etc.

I'd actually have more respect if folk just said what they really mean.

There are some songs, many of us believe should be performed in a traditional manner.

I think many our opinions of Obama are pretty clear, never mind the critique of his singing abilities, he's a piss poor leader, with a poor understanding of foreign policy, and not much better on the domestic side.

Perhaps you could go ahead and be a little more direct, grow a pair, and call someone a racist.

Chuck? I think he did say what he means. Now, maybe you can go help Johpa with his knickers.

Edited June 29, 2015 by beechguy

[Johpa]

Chuck simply stated his opinion, fact that you think you are correct, is simply your opinion. Now, why don't you scurry back to your room, and untwist your little pink knickers.

Since Chuck stated his opinion and I stated my opinion, we now wish to know what color are Chuck's knickers when the two of you are in his room together as your men-wearing-knickers fetish is now public knowledge.

[beechguy]

Chuck simply stated his opinion, fact that you think you are correct, is simply your opinion. Now, why don't you scurry back to your room, and untwist your little pink knickers.

Since Chuck stated his opinion and I stated my opinion, we now wish to know what color are Chuck's knickers when the two of you are in his room together as your men-wearing-knickers fetish is now public knowledge.

Actually, I have never met Chuck. I also kind of had you figured as thong kind of guy.

[sirineou]

-snip-

Gun control is not the way, it is part of the way. Other things have to also happen, But gun control , will do exactly what the sentence implies, "control guns"....

My idea of gun control is hitting what I aim at. Your idea is already in place. It was already illegal for the perp in this OP to have that gun there. Criminals by definition don't obey laws. There are 300 million guns in private hands in the US and if you tried to take them you'd only get them from the law abiding. Tens of millions would filter through the criminal network leaving criminals armed and honest people disarmed.

There is probably a lot of tough times ahead what with jihadists and all. America will be the last country to have its politics controlled by those people. Maybe it already is. No one is going to pull off their shit in my neighborhood and whatever puzzy people in Europe or Australia want to do is up to them.

See ya.

could you please explain how strengthened background checks would disarm honest people?

[Johpa]

Chuck simply stated his opinion, fact that you think you are correct, is simply your opinion. Now, why don't you scurry back to your room, and untwist your little pink knickers.

Since Chuck stated his opinion and I stated my opinion, we now wish to know what color are Chuck's knickers when the two of you are in his room together as your men-wearing-knickers fetish is now public knowledge.

Actually, I have never met Chuck. I also kind of had you figured as thong kind of guy.

First you imagined me in pink knickers but now you imagine me in a thong. I daresay when it comes to twisted you are in your element.

[chuckd]

Cleverly masked racism is alive and well in America.

There will always be some excuse.

"Don't like the way he sang the song", etc.

I'd actually have more respect if folk just said what they really mean.

How about the "excuse" I have been using on this forum for over 7 years.

I don't like him because he is nothing but a sleazy politician from the sewers pf Chicato pollitics.

And to be quite frank, I don't know very many posters who are seeking your stamp of approval.

[Ulysses G.]

Obama was way off key. "Racism" has nothing to do with it.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

Hey, if you can get Obama to come and serenade at your funeral, power to you. You can have him sing anything you want.

He's going to be out of a job in January 2017. Maybe he can start singing at funerals for a second career.

By the way, why would an atheist want "Amazing Grace" sung anywhere, much less at a funeral?

By the way, why would an atheist want "Amazing Grace" sung anywhere, much less at a funeral?

I spoke to the point in a post as did a few others but nevermind.

Something to do with aesthetics and heart but again, nevermind.

Whaddayasay let's all nevermind at this point.

[Chicog]

Cleverly masked racism is alive and well in America.

There will always be some excuse.

"Don't like the way he sang the song", etc.

I'd actually have more respect if folk just said what they really mean.

How about the "excuse" I have been using on this forum for over 7 years.

I don't like him because he is nothing but a sleazy politician from the sewers pf Chicato pollitics.

And to be quite frank, I don't know very many posters who are seeking your stamp of approval.

If being sleazy disqualifies someone from office, the Whitehouse would have been empty since at least the Carter administration.

[arjunadawn]

Hey, if you can get Obama to come and serenade at your funeral, power to you. You can have him sing anything you want.

He's going to be out of a job in January 2017. Maybe he can start singing at funerals for a second career.

By the way, why would an atheist want "Amazing Grace" sung anywhere, much less at a funeral?

As of today, I remain unconvinced you are correct... about unemployment.