Confederate flag sets off debate in 2016 Republican class

[NeverSure]

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

Whatever else it may be, the CSA Battle Frag flies today over capitals in the South in a direct connection to the institution of slavery and the racism inhereent to it.

And I always thought the American War of Independence was about "no taxation without representation" and a certain tea party. Ah is that the connection ?

Our friend Publicus would have no clue what the difference is between the Civil War and The Revolutionary War.

However mind you, he knows everything absolutely that there is to know about positively anything else.

[Seastallion]

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

Whatever else it may be, the CSA Battle Frag flies today over capitals in the South in a direct connection to the institution of slavery and the racism inhereent to it.

And I always thought the American War of Independence was about "no taxation without representation" and a certain tea party. Ah is that the connection ?

Our friend Publicus would have no clue what the difference is between the Civil War and The Revolutionary War.

However mind you, he knows everything absolutely that there is to know about positively anything else.

If you were not so blind as to fail to comprehend, his posts does in fact make the distinction. He mentions the WoI to make a different but related point.

[MaxYakov]

The Battle flag has nothing to do with slavery. The Civil war was not fought over slavery. It was one if the issues. But not the major one.The problem with the flag is that it looks good and is associated with the term rebel and over the years crackpots have adopted it as there banner.

Ask the average person what the formal , actual flag of the Confeferiacy was and they have no idea.....Today its the sign of a rebel, kinda like James Dean.

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

Confederate States Vice President Alexander Stephens: The cornerstone of the CSA government would "rest upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Confederate States President Jefferson Davis: “From at least the time of the American Revolution, white southerners defined their liberty, in part, as the right to own slaves and to decide the fate of the institution without any outside interference.”

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Confederate+Flag

The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

Whatever else it may be, the CSA Battle Frag flies today over capitals in the South in a direct connection to the institution of slavery and the racism inherent to it.

One thing "else" it represents is the freedom of expression/speech.

Which has higher precedence or importance w/r freedom and the slippery-slope downwards?

There are some deceased fanatics who felt similarly about images of you-know-who.

PS: Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

If these candidates had any real understanding and/or intestinal fortitude, that's what their statements would be (put more diplomatically, perhaps).

Edited June 21, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Jingthing]

There are two levels of a flag ban.

The official level ... no U.S. government entity at ANY level (from federal down to small town) should be allowed to display that flag in any way.

That seems a no brainer.

The second level ... banning the public from using it for private expression, that's something else. I don't think that can even be realistically done in the U.S. even if you wanted to.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

The Battle flag has nothing to do with slavery. The Civil war was not fought over slavery. It was one if the issues. But not the major one.The problem with the flag is that it looks good and is associated with the term rebel and over the years crackpots have adopted it as there banner.

Ask the average person what the formal , actual flag of the Confeferiacy was and they have no idea.....Today its the sign of a rebel, kinda like James Dean.

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

Confederate States Vice President Alexander Stephens: The cornerstone of the CSA government would "rest upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Confederate States President Jefferson Davis: “From at least the time of the American Revolution, white southerners defined their liberty, in part, as the right to own slaves and to decide the fate of the institution without any outside interference.”

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Confederate+Flag

The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

Whatever else it may be, the CSA Battle Frag flies today over capitals in the South in a direct connection to the institution of slavery and the racism inherent to it.

One thing "else" it represents is the freedom of expression/speech.

Which has higher precedence or importance w/r freedom and the slippery-slope downwards?

There are some deceased fanatics who felt similarly about images of you-know-who.

PS: Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

If these candidates had any real understanding and/or intestinal fortitude, that's what their statements would be (put more diplomatically, perhaps).

Following this reasoning, Swastikas could be flown too from a private dwelling or business directly opposite a synagogue. And they can.

But it is simply nasty, isn't it? So why do it...or allow it? Certain emblems need to be restricted because they incite or provoke nastiness or offense.

[Jingthing]

This issue is about banning governmental use.

It is not about private use.

[tx22cb]

Banning the flag won't solve much. Disturbed people like Roof would have done crazy things even if he did not have a flag on hand.

Roof is on suicide watch, but he won't last long any way - Bubba's already licking his lips

[NeverSure]

There are two levels of a flag ban.

The official level ... no U.S. government entity at ANY level (from federal down to small town) should be allowed to display that flag in any way.

That seems a no brainer.

The second level ... banning the public from using it for private expression, that's something else. I don't think that can even be realistically done in the U.S. even if you wanted to.

I think you're forgetting states rights as there is a Constitutional restraint on the federal government. Nowhere in the Constitution does the federal government have the power to regulate state flags.

Remember that the Constitution is against the federal government, limiting its powers against the states and against individuals. That's what the Bill of Rights in particular hammered home in both broad and definitive ways.The Bill of Rights ends with this amendment (article).

"Article the twelfth... The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[NeverSure]

One thing "else" it represents is the freedom of expression/speech.

Which has higher precedence or importance w/r freedom and the slippery-slope downwards?

There are some deceased fanatics who felt similarly about images of you-know-who.

PS: Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

If these candidates had any real understanding and/or intestinal fortitude, that's what their statements would be (put more diplomatically, perhaps).

Certain emblems need to be restricted because they incite or provoke nastiness or offense.

Go join your communist/socialist/Sharia/junta or whatever they are buddies and enjoy.

Freedom of speech and freedom of expression means the freedom to be offensive or you wouldn't need the freedom. Freedom means free. End of.

[tonypace02]

Whatever the Confederate flag may have represented 150 years ago, today it represents Bubbaism. Show me a southerner wearing a confederate flag on his baseball cap and I know I'll be looking at an ignorant fool with a black belt in moron. Show me a northerner wearing one and I'll be looking at an ignoramus wannabee.

[up-country_sinclair]

I'm not entirely sure why flying the Confederate flag isn't considered an act of treason. This was the flag of traitors to the United States, and many soldiers serving in the United States armed forces died trying to keep the Union intact. The fact that this flag flies over a state capitol is mind boggling. I can't think of another country that would allow something similar to occur. Governor Romney is correct, South Carolina needs to take that flag down immediately.

[Publicus]

The Battle flag has nothing to do with slavery. The Civil war was not fought over slavery. It was one if the issues. But not the major one.The problem with the flag is that it looks good and is associated with the term rebel and over the years crackpots have adopted it as there banner.

Ask the average person what the formal , actual flag of the Confeferiacy was and they have no idea.....Today its the sign of a rebel, kinda like James Dean.

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

Confederate States Vice President Alexander Stephens: The cornerstone of the CSA government would "rest upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Confederate States President Jefferson Davis: “From at least the time of the American Revolution, white southerners defined their liberty, in part, as the right to own slaves and to decide the fate of the institution without any outside interference.”

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Confederate+Flag

The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

Whatever else it may be, the CSA Battle Frag flies today over capitals in the South in a direct connection to the institution of slavery and the racism inherent to it.

One thing "else" it represents is the freedom of expression/speech.

Which has higher precedence or importance w/r freedom and the slippery-slope downwards?

There are some deceased fanatics who felt similarly about images of you-know-who.

PS: Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

If these candidates had any real understanding and/or intestinal fortitude, that's what their statements would be (put more diplomatically, perhaps).

Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

My logic being.....exactly what, relative to your post???

You over on the far out radical right are using the word 'ban'.

You'd need to point out to moi where in my post that you quote, or anywhere else, I said anything connected in any way to the word "ban."

Lemme know what you leap to come up with invent create discover and learn.

Realize.

Recognize.

PS: I'm all for Civil War re-enactments as I do celebrate the outcome of the event as catastrophically necessary as it was. It's the racial re-enactments or extensions into the present that I don't like and reject in the absolute.

[up-country_sinclair]

Let's also keep in mind that the traitors surrendered on April 9, 1865.

The only flag their followers should be allowed to fly is this one:

[F430murci]

I wouldn't be too sure about Roof's action not starting something big. In the atmosphere of recent unrest about cop racism, this event could prompt a black on white incident....and so on.

Exponential dominoes:

https://youtu.be/y97rBdSYbkg

Some of you would like that. Misery loves company comes to mind, but we will be alright. Life is good here and will be good. There are enough smart people i control and a new president will help.

[Seastallion]

One thing "else" it represents is the freedom of expression/speech.

Which has higher precedence or importance w/r freedom and the slippery-slope downwards?

There are some deceased fanatics who felt similarly about images of you-know-who.

PS: Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

If these candidates had any real understanding and/or intestinal fortitude, that's what their statements would be (put more diplomatically, perhaps).

Certain emblems need to be restricted because they incite or provoke nastiness or offense.

Go join your communist/socialist/Sharia/junta or whatever they are buddies and enjoy.

Freedom of speech and freedom of expression means the freedom to be offensive or you wouldn't need the freedom. Freedom means free. End of.

I think it was important to quote me properly, so that your remarks would show that you think it's OK to fly a swastika across the road from a synagogue.

As for your "sharia buddies" comment...water off a duck's back, however I hope the mods take a serious note of who it is that casts pejoratives around.

[Publicus]

Whatever the Confederate flag may have represented 150 years ago, today it represents Bubbaism. Show me a southerner wearing a confederate flag on his baseball cap and I know I'll be looking at an ignorant fool with a black belt in moron. Show me a northerner wearing one and I'll be looking at an ignoramus wannabee.

Bubbaism yes indeed.

In fact have noticed in my life recently that a few rednecks can be somewhat articulate sounding while being slippery slick besides.

Bubbas and rednecks all the same.

They need to know they're not fooling anybody beyond themselves.

[Jingthing]

I wouldn't be too sure about Roof's action not starting something big. In the atmosphere of recent unrest about cop racism, this event could prompt a black on white incident....and so on.

Exponential dominoes:

https://youtu.be/y97rBdSYbkg

Some of you would like that. Misery loves company comes to mind, but we will be alright. Life is good here and will be good. There are enough smart people i control and a new president will help.

Roof's actions have a greater chance of helping heal race relations.

These issues need to come to the surface to have the potential to make more progress.

Acting like the U.S. is past racism as some imagined after Obama was elected isn't helpful when it isn't true.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[ggt]

Many flags have flown over state capitol and cities...Mobile, AL has had six flags...Pensacola, FL five flags...both of which have flow the Confederate Flag as part of history...not as a symbol of hate or slavery or any other sinister message...

What if a group decided they no longer wanted the British, French or Spanish Flag flown because of some beef they have with those countries...

Let's not try to rewrite history...leave the flags out their for all to see how America once was, and has evolve into what it now is...

There are people in the world who see the American flag as a symbol of tyranny...and despise its presence...

[CMNightRider]

Mass shooting tragedy. Debate flags.

I love America, I really do.

But on this, their sense of priority is warped due to being fearful of the NRA. It ain't oppressive government you fellas news worrying about it seems.

What on earth does the "NRA" have to do with the "Confederate flag?" There is a small group of haters on Thai Visa, at every opportunity display distain for the NRA; America; American police; Tea Party; Fox News; and guns. I suspect most of these individuals lead boring and miserable lives.

The Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern pride. Romney must have bumped his head, siding with Obama on anything. Of all things to concern yourself with, the Confederate flag should be at the bottom of the list.

Night Rider, you are just like your name, an outdated relic from the past.

A dinosaur.

Living your dream on the big hog, flying the confederate flag.

Waving the NRA flag too.

A symptom of the trash white culture that pervades a section of America that will forever be downtrodden, not because you lost the civil war, but because you have failed to get with the new program and taken advantage of what America can offer.

Still in love with guns, but for what good is hard to fathom, since a staggering one million Americans have been killed by firearms in the US since the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King in 1968. That is more than three times the 300,000 American combat deaths in WWII, it’s five times the 200,000 civil war combat deaths and it’s one-third more than the entire 600,000 civil war deaths. In fact since just 1968, the American gun infatuation has taken more American lives than all combat deaths America suffered since 1776.

Soldier on old fella.

Outdated relic and dinosaur??? Wow, you really know how to hurt a guy, lol. This may come as a shock to you but I don't own or fly the Confederate flag, and I'm not a member of the NRA. I did take advantage of what America offers, and as a result live a comfortable life style in Thailand, taking a few out of country trips yearly. I have a wonderful educated Thai girlfriend that accompanies me on my trips. I have been accused of many things over the years but white trash isn't one of them nor did I participate in the civil war.

There are an estimated 20,000 local, state, and federal gun laws addressing criminal use of firearms, gun registration, background checks, and purchase of firearms. Researchers estimate there are over 2.55 million defensive gun uses a year in the U.S. There seems to be a crime problem in the U.S. and supporting law enforcement should be a top priority.

People getting their panties all bunched up over the Confederate flag seems a bit silly to me. If the citizens of South Carolina want the Confederate flag to fly over their state capital dome, then they should be able to continue doing this. To most residents of the south, the Confederate flag is nothing more than a symbol of southern pride.

Liberals tend to worry and concern themselves over what others do and don't do. I believe Romney must have bumped his head siding with Obama on this Confederate flag issue or any of Obama's other loony ideas.

It would make more sense to see people concerned over the national debt, less government, sending the IRS packing, implementing a flat tax, and so forth..................not the Confederate flag. OMG!

[NeverSure]

One thing "else" it represents is the freedom of expression/speech.

Which has higher precedence or importance w/r freedom and the slippery-slope downwards?

There are some deceased fanatics who felt similarly about images of you-know-who.

PS: Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

If these candidates had any real understanding and/or intestinal fortitude, that's what their statements would be (put more diplomatically, perhaps).

Certain emblems need to be restricted because they incite or provoke nastiness or offense.

Go join your communist/socialist/Sharia/junta or whatever they are buddies and enjoy.

Freedom of speech and freedom of expression means the freedom to be offensive or you wouldn't need the freedom. Freedom means free. End of.

I think it was important to quote me properly, so that your remarks would show that you think it's OK to fly a swastika across the road from a synagogue.

As for your "sharia buddies" comment...water off a duck's back, however I hope the mods take a serious note of who it is that casts pejoratives around.

I don't think it's OK to fly a swastika across the street from a synagogue. If someone does that's up to him.

Acts are different from speech if the act is violence. "Sticks and stones" and all of that. Violent actions are illegal.

It's too easy to defend someones right to say something you agree with. Where the rubber meets the road on free speech is "are you willing to defend someone's right to say something you disagree with"? If you aren't you don't believe in free speech.

In 1992 the US Supreme court ruled strongly that a juvenile boy was within his rights to burn a cross (KKK symbol) on his family lawn across the street from some new neighbors who were black. Link What he did was ugly but I can't expect anyone to defend my liberties if I don't defend theirs, especially when I disagree.

It's the left wing "tolerance" people who are so intolerant but I'd never get them to admit it. They want tolerance of them. They want tolerance of things they agree with to the exclusion of things they disagree with.

Edited June 21, 2015 by NeverSure

[sdanielmcev]

The Battle flag has nothing to do with slavery. The Civil war was not fought over slavery. It was one if the issues. But not the major one.The problem with the flag is that it looks good and is associated with the term rebel and over the years crackpots have adopted it as there banner.

Ask the average person what the formal , actual flag of the Confeferiacy was and they have no idea.....Today its the sign of a rebel, kinda like James Dean.

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

Confederate States Vice President Alexander Stephens: The cornerstone of the CSA government would "rest upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Confederate States President Jefferson Davis: From at least the time of the American Revolution, white southerners defined their liberty, in part, as the right to own slaves and to decide the fate of the institution without any outside interference.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Confederate+Flag

The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

Whatever else it may be, the CSA Battle Frag flies today over capitals in the South in a direct connection to the institution of slavery and the racism inherent to it.

You see, this is why I put 'poorly educated' in my post. Only someone with a personal political agenda would post this re-writing of history. Even Lincoln said if he tthought save the Union without freeing any slaves, he would do it.

The Civil War was about states' rights.

Also, for the poorly educated, blacks also owned slaves. Does that make slavery OK? No. Just shows lack of education.

Edited June 21, 2015 by sdanielmcev

[MaxYakov]

NickJ, on 21 Jun 2015 - 11:53, said:

The Battle flag has nothing to do with slavery. The Civil war was not fought over slavery. It was one if the issues. But not the major one.The problem with the flag is that it looks good and is associated with the term rebel and over the years crackpots have adopted it as there banner.

Ask the average person what the formal , actual flag of the Confeferiacy was and they have no idea.....Today its the sign of a rebel, kinda like James Dean.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

Confederate States Vice President Alexander Stephens: The cornerstone of the CSA government would "rest upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Confederate States President Jefferson Davis: “From at least the time of the American Revolution, white southerners defined their liberty, in part, as the right to own slaves and to decide the fate of the institution without any outside interference.”

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Confederate+Flag

The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

Whatever else it may be, the CSA Battle Frag flies today over capitals in the South in a direct connection to the institution of slavery and the racism inherent to it.

One thing "else" it represents is the freedom of expression/speech.

Which has higher precedence or importance w/r freedom and the slippery-slope downwards?

There are some deceased fanatics who felt similarly about images of you-know-who.

PS: Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

If these candidates had any real understanding and/or intestinal fortitude, that's what their statements would be (put more diplomatically, perhaps).

Following your logic should we also ban Civil War battle re-enactments or, perhaps, have them performed only within museums?

My logic being.....exactly what, relative to your post???

You over on the far out radical right are using the word 'ban'.

You'd need to point out to moi where in my post that you quote, or anywhere else, I said anything connected in any way to the word "ban."

Lemme know what you leap to come up with invent create discover and learn.

Realize.

Recognize.

PS: I'm all for Civil War re-enactments as I do celebrate the outcome of the event as catastrophically necessary as it was. It's the racial re-enactments or extensions into the present that I don't like and reject in the absolute.

You are correct in that you didn't go as far as advocating a "ban" of the flag.

Yet, you managed to twist my use of the word in a question around to your conclusion that I'm

a "far out right" something or other. Perhaps I should have used the term "your illogic" instead.

My question was a version "Have you stopped beating your wife?", wasn't it? Well, have you?

However, didn't you say this?:

"This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense."

One of the problems here is that you failed to tack on an "IMHO" at the end.

Of course, as we all know, "humble" is not a word or concept that crosses your mind

or at least does not make it through to your posts.

Another potential problem I see is that people of your opinion of the flag

might be the first ones on the "banwagon".

"It's the racial re-enactments or extensions into the present that I don't like and reject in the absolute."

Can you be a little more specific about these "racial re-enactments or extensions into the present"?

Do I again risk your label of "far out right" by using "racial" even when quoting you in a question?

[sdanielmcev]

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/FLAG/confederateflag.htm

As good a description as I have seen so far.

[sgtsabai]

I grew up in the South, SE Texass to be exact. My parents were from Mississippi and Arkansas. My mom, born in either 1897 or 98 came to SE Texas in a wagon and her dad was born in 1865. My uncle handed out cards during the War Between the States centennial that said "Celebrate the Centennial, Kill a Yankee". My family fought on the side of the Confederacy. There was an old picture of one of my uncles on the wall in my grandparents room in his Confederate Colonel's uniform, looked just like uncle Sam Houston who was against secession. When I was a kid we played Civil War games, no not computer games, outside with toy guns. I was always a Confederate. Unfortunately what was a bit of pride in those that fought justly or unjustly has turned into a symbol of stupid redneck racism and hatred. When I see somebody defending or displaying that flag today I know them for what they are, racist redneck.

[Publicus]

The Battle flag has nothing to do with slavery. The Civil war was not fought over slavery. It was one if the issues. But not the major one.The problem with the flag is that it looks good and is associated with the term rebel and over the years crackpots have adopted it as there banner.

Ask the average person what the formal , actual flag of the Confeferiacy was and they have no idea.....Today its the sign of a rebel, kinda like James Dean.

This distasteful credendum rises to the level of crude offense. It not only was the Battle Flag of the armies of the Confederate States of America, it was hoisted over state capitol buildings throughout the South during the 1950s as the resurrected direct response to the Black Civil Rights Movement.

The X is said to mean 'no' to the United States of America and later 'no' to desegregation throughout the American South.

The Confederate States fired the first shot of the Civil War from Charleston South Carolina and suffered dearly during the war. And let there be no doubt what the war was about. The eleven states of the CSA seceded yes, out of "resistance to Northern political dominance". At the center of Northern political dominance was the insistence the South compromise on slavery.

<<snip>>The southern colonies were the driving force behind the War of Independence due to Great Britain having abolished slavery. The southern states failed however in their subsequent attempt to dissolve the United States in their pursuit to further sustain the institution of slavery. The cause of secession was slavery in the American South.

And I always thought the American War of Independence was about "no taxation without representation" and a certain tea party. Ah is that the connection ?

“You can’t handle the truth.”

– from the 1992 movie A Few Good Men

Wherever the right wingers got their alleged education, they are not only largely disconnected, they are deprived.

However intoxicating the heady rhetoric of ‘rights’ and ‘liberty’ emanating from Patriot orators and journalists, for the majority of farmers, merchants and townsmen in Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia (the vast majority of whom owned between one and five negroes), all-out war and separation now turned from an ideological flourish to a social necessity. Theirs was a revolution, first and foremost, to protect slavery. Edward Rutledge, one of the leading South Carolina Patriots, was right when he described the British strategy of arming free slaves as tending "more effectively to work an eternal separation between Great Britain and the colonies than any other expedient could possibly be thought of.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/05/23/was-the-american-revolution-fought-to-save-slavery/

In 1772 the Chief Justice of the King's Bench in London ruled an American slave brought by his American master "discharged" from the slave's status as chattel, the historic Somerset ruling. Slave owners in the American southern colonies of Great Britain went into a tizzy.

In 1775 amidst open talk of rebellion in the 13 colonies, Lord General Dunsmore presented a scheme to arm the plantation slaves to rebel against their American masters. That was that.

It was in the North, in Philadelphia but in Boston especially which had been under British Navy siege since 1775 that taxation without representation and the Sons of Liberty flourished. In Virginia, meanwhile, Thomas Jefferson modified his original drafts of revolutionary documents, from "All men are born equally free and independent," to "All men are created equal" to satisfy the plantation owners huddled over him.

Plantation owners in the South rose up against the Brits during the American Revolution as well as against the North during the Civil War to save their slave economy. They succeeded in the former, failed in the latter.

Taxation might have taken some of their property; Somerset threatened to take it all.

https://allotherpersons.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/did-slavery-cause-of-the-revolutionary-war-yes-book-review-of-slave-nation/

Edited June 21, 2015 by Publicus

[Guest]

Mass shooting tragedy. Debate flags.

I love America, I really do.

But on this, their sense of priority is warped due to being fearful of the NRA. It ain't oppressive government you fellas news worrying about it seems.

What on earth does the "NRA" have to do with the "Confederate flag?" There is a small group of haters on Thai Visa, at every opportunity display distain for the NRA; America; American police; Tea Party; Fox News; and guns. I suspect most of these individuals lead boring and miserable lives.

The Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern pride. Romney must have bumped his head, siding with Obama on anything. Of all things to concern yourself with, the Confederate flag should be at the bottom of the list.

Night Rider, you are just like your name, an outdated relic from the past.

A dinosaur.

Living your dream on the big hog, flying the confederate flag.

Waving the NRA flag too.

A symptom of the trash white culture that pervades a section of America that will forever be downtrodden, not because you lost the civil war, but because you have failed to get with the new program and taken advantage of what America can offer.

Still in love with guns, but for what good is hard to fathom, since a staggering one million Americans have been killed by firearms in the US since the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King in 1968. That is more than three times the 300,000 American combat deaths in WWII, it’s five times the 200,000 civil war combat deaths and it’s one-third more than the entire 600,000 civil war deaths. In fact since just 1968, the American gun infatuation has taken more American lives than all combat deaths America suffered since 1776.

Soldier on old fella.

Well said. Last week I got into it with NRA gun suckers to the max.

I had wondered what the reaction would be to the Carolina massacre.

What I learned last week was that you can fix anything but stupid ... but duct tape can muffle the sound.

I am done, and the French say "Singing to the pigs, it wastes my breath, and annoys an animal with mud to roll in."

When it comes to trying to have any conversation with gun nuts, it really is like throwing a rubber ball at the wall ... it bounces back unchanged ... they do not consider logic, compromise or critical thinking.

In short, it is an exercise in futility.

I left America long ago, and if all works for me, will never set foot on it again.

The whole tea party, the red necks, the NRA and the haters can line right the (>>>>) up and kiss my (>>>)

Edited June 21, 2015 by Guest

[MaxYakov]

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/FLAG/confederateflag.htm

As good a description as I have seen so far.

Are you trying to provoke Publicus into a seizure or something?

It's OK. He probably won't even read it and if he did he'd write it off

as a lie from the "far right wing" something or other.

Edited June 21, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Seastallion]

Certain emblems need to be restricted because they incite or provoke nastiness or offense.

Go join your communist/socialist/Sharia/junta or whatever they are buddies and enjoy.

Freedom of speech and freedom of expression means the freedom to be offensive or you wouldn't need the freedom. Freedom means free. End of.

I think it was important to quote me properly, so that your remarks would show that you think it's OK to fly a swastika across the road from a synagogue.

As for your "sharia buddies" comment...water off a duck's back, however I hope the mods take a serious note of who it is that casts pejoratives around.

I don't think it's OK to fly a swastika across the street from a synagogue. If someone does that's up to him.

Acts are different from speech if the act is violence. "Sticks and stones" and all of that. Violent actions are illegal.

It's too easy to defend someones right to say something you agree with. Where the rubber meets the road on free speech is "are you willing to defend someone's right to say something you disagree with"? If you aren't you don't believe in free speech.

In 1992 the US Supreme court ruled strongly that a juvenile boy was within his rights to burn a cross (KKK symbol) on his family lawn across the street from some new neighbors who were black. Link What he did was ugly but I can't expect anyone to defend my liberties if I don't defend theirs, especially when I disagree.

It's the left wing "tolerance" people who are so intolerant but I'd never get them to admit it. They want tolerance of them. They want tolerance of things they agree with to the exclusion of things they disagree with.

I take the non-pointed part of what you're saying, and agree in principle. Voltaire said as much.

But there is a flaw in the idea; Sticks and stones inflict visible harm, but verbal (or symbolic, as in the case at hand) offense may very well hurt more. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect that is profound.

The very fact that you disagree with a swastika across the street from a synagogue means that at some level you empathise and know it offends.

One of our esteemed members often cites how "mental trauma" is harmful and is worthy of killing those that inflict the mental trauma in a different scenario. I could cite numerous legal precedents where inflicting mental anguish is deemed a crime and punishable. Society is slowly accepting that it's not just sticks and stones that hurt. Words hurt. Symbols hurt. Words have been know to send an offended person to suicide...and that's not isolated cases, either. Words can certainly harm.

Society has deemed that physical expression must be limited to the point where it draws short of harming a person.

Symbols can hurt too. As you know in the swastika scenario. Why is that hurt trumped by the hurter's right to freedom of expression?

[FangFerang]

Mass shooting tragedy. Debate flags.

I love America, I really do.

But on this, their sense of priority is warped due to being fearful of the NRA. It ain't oppressive government you fellas news worrying about it seems.

What on earth does the "NRA" have to do with the "Confederate flag?" There is a small group of haters on Thai Visa, at every opportunity display distain for the NRA; America; American police; Tea Party; Fox News; and guns. I suspect most of these individuals lead boring and miserable lives.

The Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern pride. Romney must have bumped his head, siding with Obama on anything. Of all things to concern yourself with, the Confederate flag should be at the bottom of the list.

I agree that debating flags is a deliberate distraction here. The group of people who hate right wing nuts worldwide is more than small. The tea party hatriots are a joke for bigots to enjoy. Fox News sued in court and declared themselves an entertainment venue (just like Rush Windbag did), so they are advertising falsely by keeping the name. As for the NRA and guns, those are different issues altogether. The confederate flag is a hateful symbol altogether, and as a southerner, I completely agree it should be taken down, burned, and the ashes cast on Martin Luther King's tomb.

[sdanielmcev]

Mass shooting tragedy. Debate flags.

I love America, I really do.

But on this, their sense of priority is warped due to being fearful of the NRA. It ain't oppressive government you fellas news worrying about it seems.

What on earth does the "NRA" have to do with the "Confederate flag?" There is a small group of haters on Thai Visa, at every opportunity display distain for the NRA; America; American police; Tea Party; Fox News; and guns. I suspect most of these individuals lead boring and miserable lives.

The Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern pride. Romney must have bumped his head, siding with Obama on anything. Of all things to concern yourself with, the Confederate flag should be at the bottom of the list.

Night Rider, you are just like your name, an outdated relic from the past.

A dinosaur.

Living your dream on the big hog, flying the confederate flag.

Waving the NRA flag too.

A symptom of the trash white culture that pervades a section of America that will forever be downtrodden, not because you lost the civil war, but because you have failed to get with the new program and taken advantage of what America can offer.

Still in love with guns, but for what good is hard to fathom, since a staggering one million Americans have been killed by firearms in the US since the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King in 1968. That is more than three times the 300,000 American combat deaths in WWII, its five times the 200,000 civil war combat deaths and its one-third more than the entire 600,000 civil war deaths. In fact since just 1968, the American gun infatuation has taken more American lives than all combat deaths America suffered since 1776.

Soldier on old fella.

Well said. Last week I got into it with NRA gun suckers to the max.

I had wondered what the reaction would be to the Carolina massacre.

What I learned last week was that you can fix anything but stupid ... but duct tape can muffle the sound.

I am done, and the French say "Singing to the pigs, it wastes my breath, and annoys an animal with mud to roll in."

When it comes to trying to have any conversation with gun nuts, it really is like throwing a rubber ball at the wall ... it bounces back unchanged ... they do not consider logic, compromise or critical thinking.

In short, it is an exercise in futility.

I left America long ago, and if all works for me, will never set foot on it again.

The whole tea party, the red necks, the NRA and the haters can line right the (>>>>) up and kiss my (>>>)

Bye.

You talk about hate while fomenting hate. You lose the argument then blame the winners. This isn't about the NRA, tea party, or your political agenda.