Adorable dog will be put down unless........

[cheeryble]

Hi

I have a rental in a forest community.

A dog sort of took me on some years ago and I've been his main guy and provided food and vet but I've been spending less and less time there.

This doesn't matter so much as he has lots of friends and everyone loves him.

Last year we were followed by another dog on a walk.

He followed us home.

A very handsome youngish but fully grown boy.

He looked a bit skinny.

Well I started giving him some food.

He's turned out to ba an absolutely lovely dog, loves me and a couple of others who help feed him etc, is nice to other dogs generally and even cats.

When I arrive his tail is heard banging the side of the car.

One problem.

Biting.....in limited circumstances.

Looks like he's been mistreated and has a conditioned reflex.

If he is approached fast with an outstretched hand by a stranger or someone he doesn't know properly he will bite and he has drawn blood.

This is difficult at this housing community as it is unfenced and there are often visitors who don't know him.

Long story short, it's happened again and a couple of the residents one of whom also feeds him........very kind people who actually really like the dog who we probably saved from abandonment because of his problem so he's at leas thad an extra year or two or pretty happy life.....they've approached me and want to have him taken away by Care for Dogs.

This will probably mean him being put down eventually.

He is just in the wrong type of place.

This is an unlikely question in hope of a miracle....

In the right circumstances of an enclosed garden with a kind and patient owner this dog will give and return love in heaps, and I believe he can be handled pretty normally (I play with him around the head just like any other dog).

But he does have a problem though i believe it is surmountable.

Is there anyone out there full of compassion who has the right premises and attitude to give him a last chance at life?

Edited June 22, 2015 by cheeryble

[Thailand]

I think Care For Dogs will not take him in with a view to eventually putting him down. More likely they will try to rehabilitate, he won't be the first of his kind they have dealt with.

[bangmai]

You feed a dog that is known to bite, knowing that it will continue to roam the streets of your own neighborhood? The dog should be the least of your worries.

[sappersrest]

Care for dogs will not have him put down, give them a call and have a chat with them, also they might be able to give you and your neighbours some tips on how to manage the situation.Perhaps if you you and your neighbours are happy with his company buy him a muzzle.

Good Luck and I hope he finds his forever home.

[arunsakda]

You have admitted the dog has a propensity for viciousness. I don't blame the dog for that, only humans who allow the existence of wild dogs to flourish, while they are forced to suffer the hard lives that causes them to be dangerous to innocent children, peoples, and animals.

If you do care for this dog so much why can't you collar him and keep chained on your property forever and muzzled when on walks? Otherwise the dog should be destroyed. I'm sorry but I am tired of people who insist that these dangerous verminous animales have some right to exist in cities and built up areas at the peril of innocent people, to be harried, bitten, and possibly killed by wild dogs.

[sappersrest]

Any news yet?

[zeichen]

"Otherwise the dog should be destroyed. I'm sorry but I am tired of people who insist that these dangerous verminous animales have some right to exist in cities"

You do realize that most dogs can be trained to change negative behaviors? Yes, some are too far gone and have serious emotional damage. Why not give them a chance before terminating their life. Don't you think that they deserve a chance?

As to the OP. I almost cried looking at the photo. He reminds me of our dog we lost a few years ago. He too was a stray and had some serious issues. He eventually was so loving and gentle that he would play with our infant. It took us a few years though with love and patience showing him that he was safe. He was mostly afraid of big dog and sometimes was a bully to smaller dogs at first but that habit got broken too.

I really wish that I could take him for you. I hope that you find a good home with someone who knows how to help him.

[NancyL]

I've got to agree with those who have a problem with the idea of those who continue to feed a dog who is running lose when it's known to have a problem. They're not doing anyone, esp. the dog a kindness.

We had a dog in the U.S. with a somewhat similar problem, although hers was that she couldn't be trusted around any animal smaller than she. Actually she looked similar to this dog in the head and we grew to suspect she was part pit bull, part small terrior. We had adopted her from an animal shelter and she was great around adults, esp. those who knew how to handle dogs. But, she was vicious with smaller dogs and created major problems in leaving our property to attack neighbors dogs. Fortunately none were seriously injured and we willingly paid the vet bills, but after one court appearance, we realized she had to be kept on a chain at all times that she was outdoors.

And we had a 20 acre farm with plenty of native small animals to keep her busy. In fact, part of why we got her was for "varmint control", which she did very well. (rats, raccoons, muskrats) The problems arose when the area became gentrified with country estates and neighbors with small dogs, instead of the intimidating big dogs of the other long-time neighbors.

After the second incident with a small dog, we realized we had a problem and had her under control at all times. Difficult for a dog who was used to roaming 20 acres. When we left the U.S., we mounted a major campaign to find a home for her and eventually did on a neighboring farm -- a larger one where her hunting abilities would still be valued.

She was such a tenacious varmint hunter that we had other farmers asking if she was going to have pups while we were in the middle of paying legal fees related to her. (she was fixed, thankfully)

But we stopped allowing her to run loose once we realized there was a problem. Now maybe it's because it was the U.S. and it's just something about the treat of a court appearance and the cancellation of your business liability insurance that gets your attention (we ran a retail greenhouse/nursery business from that site), but still I'd like to think we would have done that without those threats.

This is the photo that got her a new home.

Edit: I look at this photo some years later and realize she looks old and harmless, doesn't she? Hmmm... appearances can be deceiving.

Edited June 22, 2015 by NancyL

[Beetlejuice]

I've got to agree with those who have a problem with the idea of those who continue to feed a dog who is running lose when it's known to have a problem. They're not doing anyone, esp. the dog a kindness.

We had a dog in the U.S. with a somewhat similar problem, although hers was that she couldn't be trusted around any animal smaller than she. Actually she looked similar to this dog in the head and we grew to suspect she was part pit bull, part small terrior. We had adopted her from an animal shelter and she was great around adults, esp. those who knew how to handle dogs. But, she was vicious with smaller dogs and created major problems in leaving our property to attack neighbors dogs. Fortunately none were seriously injured and we willingly paid the vet bills, but after one court appearance, we realized she had to be kept on a chain at all times that she was outdoors.

And we had a 20 acre farm with plenty of native small animals to keep her busy. In fact, part of why we got her was for "varmint control", which she did very well. (rats, raccoons, muskrats) The problems arose when the area became gentrified with country estates and neighbors with small dogs, instead of the intimidating big dogs of the other long-time neighbors.

After the second incident with a small dog, we realized we had a problem and had her under control at all times. Difficult for a dog who was used to roaming 20 acres. When we left the U.S., we mounted a major campaign to find a home for her and eventually did on a neighboring farm -- a larger one where her hunting abilities would still be valued.

She was such a tenacious varmint hunter that we had other farmers asking if she was going to have pups while we were in the middle of paying legal fees related to her. (she was fixed, thankfully)

But we stopped allowing her to run loose once we realized there was a problem. Now maybe it's because it was the U.S. and it's just something about the treat of a court appearance and the cancellation of your business liability insurance that gets your attention (we ran a retail greenhouse/nursery business from that site), but still I'd like to think we would have done that without those threats.JosephineCroppedPhoto.jpg

This is the photo that got her a new home.

Edit: I look at this photo some years later and realize she looks old and harmless, doesn't she? Hmmm... appearances can be deceiving.

Must say I really hate these type of threads. Always sad.

That is a beautiful dog, looked like he had real character. I think you will agree with me that the saying is true; it is not possible to teach an old dog new tricks and I feel sympathy for the OP`s dilemma and even more sympathy for the dog who`s fate lies in the balance.

My dogs are kept within the confines of our land and are a part of our family, they have full run of the house and sleep in the house at night and thoroughly spoiled. I would rather have my arm cut off than get rid of my dogs, we love em to bits.

The problem for the OP is, that if the dog is unpredictable and could turn, especially if children could be at risk, then homing the dog is going to be a difficult task. And if the dog is used to roaming about, keeping the dog confined to an area could result in the dog becoming even more aggressive. I also would not want a dog around that mean`t I had to be cautious when we had visitors.

For the first time, I don`t have any suggestions and can only say; I hope the situation gets sorted one way or another..

[arunsakda]

"Otherwise the dog should be destroyed. I'm sorry but I am tired of people who insist that these dangerous verminous animales have some right to exist in cities"

You do realize that most dogs can be trained to change negative behaviors? Yes, some are too far gone and have serious emotional damage. Why not give them a chance before terminating their life. Don't you think that they deserve a chance?

As to the OP. I almost cried looking at the photo. He reminds me of our dog we lost a few years ago. He too was a stray and had some serious issues. He eventually was so loving and gentle that he would play with our infant. It took us a few years though with love and patience showing him that he was safe. He was mostly afraid of big dog and sometimes was a bully to smaller dogs at first but that habit got broken too.

I really wish that I could take him for you. I hope that you find a good home with someone who knows how to help him.

I asked if the OP would take responsibility for this dog, he won't. You cannot either and I can understand that. Hopefully somebody will step up to the plate and take responsibility for this dog. I love dogs and cats but my lifestyle does not allow me to keep pets. If I did I would care for them responsibly.

The truth is that in a proper society one can walk the streets without being savaged by dogges simply because an agency of government comes to round them up. The stray, abandoned, and the unintended which exist solely because low class stupid people will not control and spay/neuter their pets. The problem can be ignored by so-called "animal lovers" because somebody else deals with it, and that is the saddest thing. In the US millions of animals are put down yearly. I called them vermin, and that is not an accurate use of the word but dogs are not a natural component of the urban environment and exist solely because of the irresponsibility of people, who here allow the problem to flourish indefinitely. I do not expect anything here to change in that regard. Meanwhile I cannot walk or ride my bike in the cool pre-dawn hours, in the busiest parts of of CM, because it simply is too dangerous.

For pointing that out I'm the bad guy

Edited June 22, 2015 by arunsakda

[cheeryble]

Thanks for all the kind answers.

I did not know about the problem at first.

I merely wanted to give the dog a chance, and it nearly has worked out but not quite.

Again, I hope against hope I get a response here.

BTW the dog in the background, Jack, though a bit smaller, is undoubtedly the pack leader, snarls at him (it's fake) just occasionally to let him know who's boss, and Scooby (the dog) knuckles under.

Same goes for me, I'm the boss.

This is good it means he can be subordinate or at least neutral if dealt with properly.

My best guess is he could live a happy enough life enclosed and in any case is no problem on a walk....loves them....doesn't run off.

He just wants to belong and get fed once a day.

When the car arrives his tail is banging it, then when I open the door he pushes into the way to welcome me and as I get out he nuzzles my hand and tries to push me.

Tail wagging all the time.

Edited June 22, 2015 by cheeryble

[mikebell]

Adorable dog is an oxymoron. Working dogs justify their existence, all other strays should be culled. 60 years ago dogs were allowed to roam unfettered on UK streets. Then the toll of: car accidents; disease spread; sheep-worrying; child savaging etc was calculated and legislation introduced. Perhaps in another fifty years Thailand will become civilised to the point where it starts to recognise the damage soi dogs do to its citizens and reputation as a tourist centre.

In my limited circle of friends, most have had a dog related incident in the form of road accident or bites requiring hospital treatment at our own expense. How many of the 70 deaths a DAY are caused by dogs?

[bangmai]

What do you think the chances are that these stray dogs are up to date on their shots?

[sappersrest]

What do you think the chances are that these stray dogs are up to date on their shots?

None at all ,unless they all manage to take themselves to the vet once a year, would be a strange site indeed a queue of dogs waiting outside the vets at 8 am.

However there are numerous animal charities that do marvellous work in this field especially neutering an giving rabies shots and education.

So if you can please give a small amount of money to any of these good organisations .Our own local care for dogs being one ,there are others just google.

[cheeryble]

Just trying to keep this high on the list so we maximise the chance that the right kind person will see this thread and take him on.

Really hope so....

[chiangmaiexpat]

Sorry, can't take any more. We already have one "biter" that my wife picked up from the street. He has received nothing but the best treatment. Still tends to bite. It's inherited behaviour, I suppose.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[Nienke]

Many dog bites are anxiety- and/or fear-based, as is the case with this dog.

This dog has learned that the best defense is the offence: 'be quicker than the object that is fast-moving towards you and has hurt you in the past'. If the object is only 'a hand moving fast towards the head' than the dog is discriminating. If the object is more than that, than the dog has generalized his fear towards other things.

Besides this issue the dog doesn't seem to have issues, making me believe that through desensitization and counter-conditioning this dog's fear issue can quite easily be solved.
It's often the impatience of the people, a lack of understanding of the way dogs communicate (including the appeasement/calming/stress signals), the mistaken believe of the 'theory of the pack-leader and dominance' and the continuous push of the dog over his/her threshold, that makes the rehab difficult and sets the dog up to failure.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Nienke

[sappersrest]

Many dog bites are anxiety- and/or fear-based, as is the case with this dog.

This dog has learned that the best defense is the offence: 'be quicker than the object that is fast-moving towards you and has hurt you in the past'. If the object is only 'a hand moving fast towards the head' than the dog is discriminating. If the object is more than that, than the dog has generalized his fear towards other things.

Besides this issue the dog doesn't seem to have issues, making me believe that through desensitization and counter-conditioning this dog's fear issue can quite easily be solved.

It's often the impatience of the people, a lack of understanding of the way dogs communicate (including the appeasement/calming/stress signals), the mistaken believe of the 'theory of the pack-leader and dominance' and the continuous push of the dog over his/her threshold, that makes the rehab difficult and sets the dog up to failure.

Now we have some one who really knows what they are on about. thanks for your help.

[sappersrest]

How is the dog getting on any takers yet??

[cheeryble]

Sorry to say not yet Sappersrest.

I've passed information from here on to the very kind chap who still lives there who's kind of taken over to deal with him. I provide the food and he feeds him.

So right now things are as normal but the decision is clear that the dog, Scooby, cannot continue there and something will happen.

He's easy to feed, gets decent quality dry dog meal (maybe called APkus? Got the nutrients and easy and cheap) plus either an egg or a half a mini can of fish once a day. And he and Jack look good on it.

Scooby is well mannered at feeding time and sits well back while things are prepared no pestering at any time.

There's a cat comes often for food too no hassle from either dog.

Thanks for your interest, hope we can find a satisfactory outcome!

[sappersrest]

Has he found his new home yet? He deserves it.

[cheeryble]

Afraid not Sapperrest

Friend who has kinda taken on the task has been trying to find out all he can about alternatives still.

Meanwhile we can hope that keeping the topic active here may still get a response..

Interestingly a couple of new neighbours asked me for a jump start to their car yesterday.

I warned them about Scooby and said he's ok just leave him alone they said he'd kinda been around them a bit and no problem.

So I said just leave him alone and it'll be ok.

Meanwhile Scooby jus t trying to be like a normal dog wagging when I arrive, nuzzling my hand and enjoying "escorting" me with Jack when I drove out.

This is always a bit of fun for them, Jakc lets off a woof or two part of the game but Scooby nice and quiet mostly doesn't let off more than a subdued howl once a week he's not a barker.

[Ulysses G.]

I really hope you find someone. I've got too many tourists that want to touch the animals hanging around and a very territorial cat. He sounds like a wonderful animal for someone.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[jabis]

We'd take 'im in a heartbeat, if we a) already didn't have an adoptee (6 months old biter) ourselves and b ) our own dog wouldn't be aggressive to male dogs ;( Hope he get's a deserving proper home where to roam around, and get's the love to rid off the lack of caring!

Edited July 3, 2015 by jabis

[amexpat]

Adorable dog that bites and draws blood must receive the finest loving care while many well behaved dogs languish in shelters.

Whatever.

[sappersrest]

On this auspicious day will some ones heart melt before the ice cream, and give this dog a wonderful home.

[cheeryble]

Sure hope so SR.

He used to get jealous when I would pet Jack but now he has no problem almost enjoys me petting the other dog as a friend should......well maybe pushes in a little bit.

Very polite at feeding time sits back and waits calmly but interestedly.

[sappersrest]

I gather there were no 4 July takers for the special one then? Sure he will find a home someday.

[cardinalblue]

All dogs are rehabilitable - just needs to put into correct environment....

[amexpat]

All dogs are rehabilitable - just needs to put into correct environment....

All people too?