Commerce Min denies rumors of bad Thai rice to be sold in markets

[rametindallas]

In Europe many farmers only survive because of the "common agricultural policy". Many big farms make a shed load of money from it and French farmers couldn't exist without it. If helping farmers is ok in Europe ( and I believe the US has financial support for farmers too ) why do many posters on TV seem to think it's so wrong in Thailand ?

Were any of those farmers paid 140% of world market prices by their governments? Were any of those farm subsidy programs 'off budget'? Were all trade deals kept secret? Did any of those governments you are referring to actually buy and then try to store, long term, perishable crops? How many fake G to G deals did those governments cover up? How much better off are the Thai rice farmers now that the government has a huge surplus to sell in competition with the farmers and world prices have dropped because of a glut in the market? You sure are glossing over the corruption endemic in Yingluck's Thaksin's Rice Scheme Scam.

Rule One of being a Thaksin apologist is: Ignore the facts, they get in the way of the propaganda narrative. This 'other countries subsidize their farmers' comparison has been shot down seven ways to Sunday and still the Thaksin apologists keep repeating it. Never mind, I don't get tired of refuting the propaganda.

.

OK you have a point, and please I'm not defending TS and his family, but have you never heard of the euro wine lake or the butter mountain ?

Those wine lakes and butter mountains did not go into the pockets of a few as the Rice Support Scheme did. You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria. Educate yourself on Thai history by reading biographies on Thai leaders to be found on Wikipedia (it's not Red or Yellow). In the mean time, until you are 'up to speed' on the inanity/eccentricity of Thai politics, I hope you stay neutral and, whatever you do on this forum, learn to recognize there are propagandist who are pushing a message and they get their talking points from the same source. The almost never offer links to confirm their wild claims and are, in general, very negative on the current situation, which, as far as most Thais go, is not so bad.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am no fan of the current government nor the Democrat Party. I am just anti-criminal government and anti government by proxy which manifests itself in one Thaksin Shinawatra. He is evil.

.

[mikemac]

In Europe many farmers only survive because of the "common agricultural policy". Many big farms make a shed load of money from it and French farmers couldn't exist without it. If helping farmers is ok in Europe ( and I believe the US has financial support for farmers too ) why do many posters on TV seem to think it's so wrong in Thailand ?

Because such schemes are administered by Thai politicians and bureaucrats, not the EU.

The current military administration recently announced its multi billion baht palm oil subsidy. None of the names complaining about the rice subsidy program of the former legally elected government criticized it.

The military also offers irrigation, fertilizer, pesticide and herbicide subsidies to the rice farmers. The subsidy is significant, yet no one is able to put an exact number on it because the military administration will not release the total cost. Why's that?

Why's that?.............................Because they are just as dodgy as the previous government, I would say.

And I would be the first one to criticize the subsidy if it turned into an absolute disaster financially.

The money being spent on fertilizer, pesticide, herbicide etc may well be better spent setting the small time rice farmers up in alternative farming practices like raising livestock. Money spent on irrigation is fine as long as they are allowed to grow rice crops.

I like the way you slipped in the term "former legally elected government".

That may be so, if you overlook the "illegal" buying of votes.

And most of the people on this forum who criticize any of the previous incarnations of Thaksin's governments attack them for the illegal way they ran their governments. I am not going to list them here, but I am sure you know what I mean.

Most of those parties ended up being banned and I am sure PTP will be as well.

[halloween]

If all the rice has gone bad, why are they being told not to grow a new batch?

Perhaps a populist hand out subsidy is on the way.

Its not as if there is competition for new good rice.

so you haven't heard about the drought here in Thailand?

[ratcatcher]

Well done Yingluck & Co !!

700 billion wasted and now the stockpiles can't even be used for animal food.....................

Last year I tried to explain the rice-pledging-scheme to my sister. Her reply: "Nobody can be that stupid"

As we all know.....................

"Last year I tried to explain the rice-pledging-scheme to my sister. Her reply: "Nobody can be that stupid"

Your explanation obviously missed key points of Agricultural subsidy programs exercised by many Govts., in order to meet economic and political objectives. Same as Rubber subsidy programs previously...Even to the extent of outlawing Rubber plantations outside the South.....A policy Thaksin quickly jettisoned.

The point being, Ag-subsidy programs come in many shapes and sizes and for many purposes...The above mentioned rubber subsidy program had political purposes for the Govt. of the day...Imagine such blasphemy.

These programs open the door for the self-serving Opposition to both demonize the program and the Govt......It is what they do...... But that doesn't make their mantra gospel.......Yingluck defended this program before Parliament. Many would suggest that was gospel....

Voters in subsequent elections would cast their opinion about this......Both the Opposition's version and the Yingluck one. .Obviously this Opposition wasn't too sure of itself, and avoided that kind of electoral scrutiny..............

Interestingly, in the run-up to the 2014 coup, anti-democrats worked with some farmers' leaders, especially those in the central region, to organize self-serving demonstrations against the Yingluck Shinawatra government. The claim was that the rice price guarantee was not being paid. Indeed, in some cases it wasn't, not least because the anti-democrats themselves prevented rice sales and payments, and then cried foul, blaming a Govt. they wanted to coup out of existence instead of electorally, for their own obstruction.....Trying to have it both ways.....

I think I have seen this drama before, in another setting....For example, creating much political fuss and furor emanating out of Lumpini Park, and then suggesting the entire Thai political space was in turmoil. Creating situations and then blaming others. There is a term for that - duplicitous-ness.

The electorate however has the knack of seeing through duplicitous-ness, and is why an election was quickly cancelled and prevented going forward.

Just ridiculous!

You can't possibly be fab4's younger brother.

[halloween]

Can anyone be as stupid to not understand that 650,000 tons or about 4% of the pledged rice was deemed unfit for both human and animal consumption, as well as ethanol production. Or that it can still be sold used as fuel in electricity generation? ref. PWO:650,000 tons of stockpiled rice declared rotten, to be used as fuel, 2015-06-15

Since the 700 billion baht was paid to the rice farmers for their pledged rice at twice the world market price, I wouldn't call that "wasted" - just one huge subsidy PROMISED by Yingluck and PAID by the Junta.

With 20 years working in the generation industry, I can assure that power stations are not crying out for rice to burn. It is a way to dispose of waste nobody wants, and will probably cost more to burn than the value of the energy it produces.

BTW your "subsidy" was announced as a social policy to assist the poorest rice farmers. there were no measures, caps or restrictions put in place to ensure that that would be the result, and of course, it didn't happen. The poorest were excluded, and rents and other costs were allowed to rise actually making them and Low-income farmers worse off.

OTOH landlords of rice farming land and storage operators had a 'golden age'. The only question is whether that was criminal negligence or plain old theft of public monies.

[eliotness]

In Europe many farmers only survive because of the "common agricultural policy". Many big farms make a shed load of money from it and French farmers couldn't exist without it. If helping farmers is ok in Europe ( and I believe the US has financial support for farmers too ) why do many posters on TV seem to think it's so wrong in Thailand ?

Were any of those farmers paid 140% of world market prices by their governments? Were any of those farm subsidy programs 'off budget'? Were all trade deals kept secret? Did any of those governments you are referring to actually buy and then try to store, long term, perishable crops? How many fake G to G deals did those governments cover up? How much better off are the Thai rice farmers now that the government has a huge surplus to sell in competition with the farmers and world prices have dropped because of a glut in the market? You sure are glossing over the corruption endemic in Yingluck's Thaksin's Rice Scheme Scam.

Rule One of being a Thaksin apologist is: Ignore the facts, they get in the way of the propaganda narrative. This 'other countries subsidize their farmers' comparison has been shot down seven ways to Sunday and still the Thaksin apologists keep repeating it. Never mind, I don't get tired of refuting the propaganda.

.

OK you have a point, and please I'm not defending TS and his family, but have you never heard of the euro wine lake or the butter mountain ?

Those wine lakes and butter mountains did not go into the pockets of a few as the Rice Support Scheme did. You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria. Educate yourself on Thai history by reading biographies on Thai leaders to be found on Wikipedia (it's not Red or Yellow). In the mean time, until you are 'up to speed' on the inanity/eccentricity of Thai politics, I hope you stay neutral and, whatever you do on this forum, learn to recognize there are propagandist who are pushing a message and they get their talking points from the same source. The almost never offer links to confirm their wild claims and are, in general, very negative on the current situation, which, as far as most Thais go, is not so bad.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am no fan of the current government nor the Democrat Party. I am just anti-criminal government and anti government by proxy which manifests itself in one Thaksin Shinawatra. He is evil.

.

[rametindallas]

OK you have a point, and please I'm not defending TS and his family, but have you never heard of the euro wine lake or the butter mountain ?

Those wine lakes and butter mountains did not go into the pockets of a few as the Rice Support Scheme did. You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria. Educate yourself on Thai history by reading biographies on Thai leaders to be found on Wikipedia (it's not Red or Yellow). In the mean time, until you are 'up to speed' on the inanity/eccentricity of Thai politics, I hope you stay neutral and, whatever you do on this forum, learn to recognize there are propagandist who are pushing a message and they get their talking points from the same source. The almost never offer links to confirm their wild claims and are, in general, very negative on the current situation, which, as far as most Thais go, is not so bad.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am no fan of the current government nor the Democrat Party. I am just anti-criminal government and anti government by proxy which manifests itself in one Thaksin Shinawatra. He is evil.

.

Not much of a reply. Cat got your tongue?

.

[eliotness]

In Europe many farmers only survive because of the "common agricultural policy". Many big farms make a shed load of money from it and French farmers couldn't exist without it. If helping farmers is ok in Europe ( and I believe the US has financial support for farmers too ) why do many posters on TV seem to think it's so wrong in Thailand ?

Were any of those farmers paid 140% of world market prices by their governments? Were any of those farm subsidy programs 'off budget'? Were all trade deals kept secret? Did any of those governments you are referring to actually buy and then try to store, long term, perishable crops? How many fake G to G deals did those governments cover up? How much better off are the Thai rice farmers now that the government has a huge surplus to sell in competition with the farmers and world prices have dropped because of a glut in the market? You sure are glossing over the corruption endemic in Yingluck's Thaksin's Rice Scheme Scam.

Rule One of being a Thaksin apologist is: Ignore the facts, they get in the way of the propaganda narrative. This 'other countries subsidize their farmers' comparison has been shot down seven ways to Sunday and still the Thaksin apologists keep repeating it. Never mind, I don't get tired of refuting the propaganda.

.

OK you have a point, and please I'm not defending TS and his family, but have you never heard of the euro wine lake or the butter mountain ?

Those wine lakes and butter mountains did not go into the pockets of a few as the Rice Support Scheme did. You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria. Educate yourself on Thai history by reading biographies on Thai leaders to be found on Wikipedia (it's not Red or Yellow). In the mean time, until you are 'up to speed' on the inanity/eccentricity of Thai politics, I hope you stay neutral and, whatever you do on this forum, learn to recognize there are propagandist who are pushing a message and they get their talking points from the same source. The almost never offer links to confirm their wild claims and are, in general, very negative on the current situation, which, as far as most Thais go, is not so bad.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am no fan of the current government nor the Democrat Party. I am just anti-criminal government and anti government by proxy which manifests itself in one Thaksin Shinawatra. He is evil.

.

You seem to having a bad day. Who do you think pays for all the EU scams ? - the tax payer. Who benefited ? - the already well off, the mafia, the Eurocrats, the traditional elites of the countries etc.

To compare Taksin with Hitler is not only deeply insulting to any jewish and eastern european readers of TV, but it shows a severe lack of understanding of WW2 and European history.

To say the great European leaders didn't have the power and influence Taksin had/has shows an error in your education. Do you not think the likes of Churchill, de Galle, Maggie Thatcher to name only a few had world-wide and history changing influence and not just in a tiny country like Thailand.

To call Taksin "evil" is total yellow shirt propaganda. He was, and still is, a very clever big-time criminal, but evil no. You could call Tony Blair and George Bush evil for their warmongering in Iraq causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and leaving the world with such a toxic legacy, but Taksin taking huge advantage of a deeply corrupt society is not "evil", criminally very clever, but not evil.

Just to set the record straight, I too am a neutral and I've seen first hand corruption in Europe, Africa and now Thailand. Corruption is like a cancer that rots society from the inside. I am also a believer in democracy with all its faults. The corruption with the red shirts is nothing compared to the ANC in South Africa, the Presidents of Zaire and Zimbabwe, Marcos in the Philipines etc etc etc. True democracy has to recognise that people are generally not nice and has to have checks and balances to ensure the max benefit for everyone, not the "few" whatever their shirt colour.

[eliotness]

Not much of a reply. Cat got your tongue?

.

Sorry, trying to figure out how my last 2 posts didn't get in neat little boxes like before. Working from a tablet doesn't help. Need a beer !

[Bannum opinions]

I too am a neutral (Eliotness, #38 above)

I'm not sure who else Mr. Eliotness is referring to....Just somebody else claiming nuetrality on a Political discussion Board.

Not possible...... neutrality doesn't exist on a Political discussion Board.

Some think that by claiming neutrality, it enhances their point-of-view.

I chuckle at those who claim neutrality, and then proceed to dump all over one side of the political divide. For example, the anti-Thaksin comments in Post #38 belie such characterizations. Chiming into the Post-Thaksin demonization campaign waged by the anti-democrats, in whole or in part, is not neutral. Same as if somebody indicates they are neutral, and then call Suthep an idiot.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Bannum opinions

[halloween]

I too am a neutral (Eliotness, #38 above)

I'm not sure who else Mr. Eliotness is referring to....Just somebody else claiming nuetrality on a Political discussion Board.

Not possible...... neutrality doesn't exist on a Political discussion Board.

Some think that by claiming neutrality, it enhances their point-of-view.

I chuckle at those who claim neutrality, and then proceed to dump all over one side of the political divide. For example, the anti-Thaksin comments in Post #38 belie such characterizations. Chiming into the Post-Thaksin demonization campaign waged by the anti-democrats, in whole or in part, is not neutral. Same as if somebody indicates they are neutral, and then call Suthep an idiot.

So Thaksin equals democracy? Pointing out the blatant criminal actions of somebody elected is anti-democratic?

Should they put Boonsong back in the commerce Ministry?

[Bannum opinions]

I too am a neutral (Eliotness, #38 above)

I'm not sure who else Mr. Eliotness is referring to....Just somebody else claiming nuetrality on a Political discussion Board.

Not possible...... neutrality doesn't exist on a Political discussion Board.

Some think that by claiming neutrality, it enhances their point-of-view.

I chuckle at those who claim neutrality, and then proceed to dump all over one side of the political divide. For example, the anti-Thaksin comments in Post #38 belie such characterizations. Chiming into the Post-Thaksin demonization campaign waged by the anti-democrats, in whole or in part, is not neutral. Same as if somebody indicates they are neutral, and then call Suthep an idiot.

So Thaksin equals democracy? Pointing out the blatant criminal actions of somebody elected is anti-democratic?

Should they put Boonsong back in the commerce Ministry?

Its all in "the eye of the beholder"........

And there are no neutral eyes here.

Lack of active political participation by Farangs does not equate to neutrality. Just no participation beyond doing what political junkies do everywhere...Debating, discussion and "loving their neighbors here, regardless of political opinions"

Edited June 23, 2015 by Bannum opinions

[eliotness]

So there is no such thing as neutral ! I love my life in Thailand and I only wish the best for the thai people. I don't really care what system is in place, as long as it is fair. Thailand society has shown over the last 70 + years it is too immature to embrace true western style democracy. So a government that treats all people fairly is what I wish for Thailand. One thing I don't like is those who side with just one colour shirt no matter what. All sides have good and bad points. To listen, research, gain knowledge, add experience of countries outside of Thailand is not biased as a certain poster wants to suggest.

[bkkstooge]

In Europe many farmers only survive because of the "common agricultural policy". Many big farms make a shed load of money from it and French farmers couldn't exist without it. If helping farmers is ok in Europe ( and I believe the US has financial support for farmers too ) why do many posters on TV seem to think it's so wrong in Thailand ?

Were any of those farmers paid 140% of world market prices by their governments? Were any of those farm subsidy programs 'off budget'? Were all trade deals kept secret? Did any of those governments you are referring to actually buy and then try to store, long term, perishable crops? How many fake G to G deals did those governments cover up? How much better off are the Thai rice farmers now that the government has a huge surplus to sell in competition with the farmers and world prices have dropped because of a glut in the market? You sure are glossing over the corruption endemic in Yingluck's Thaksin's Rice Scheme Scam.

Rule One of being a Thaksin apologist is: Ignore the facts, they get in the way of the propaganda narrative. This 'other countries subsidize their farmers' comparison has been shot down seven ways to Sunday and still the Thaksin apologists keep repeating it. Never mind, I don't get tired of refuting the propaganda.

.

OK you have a point, and please I'm not defending TS and his family, but have you never heard of the euro wine lake or the butter mountain ?

Those wine lakes and butter mountains did not go into the pockets of a few as the Rice Support Scheme did. You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria. Educate yourself on Thai history by reading biographies on Thai leaders to be found on Wikipedia (it's not Red or Yellow). In the mean time, until you are 'up to speed' on the inanity/eccentricity of Thai politics, I hope you stay neutral and, whatever you do on this forum, learn to recognize there are propagandist who are pushing a message and they get their talking points from the same source. The almost never offer links to confirm their wild claims and are, in general, very negative on the current situation, which, as far as most Thais go, is not so bad.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am no fan of the current government nor the Democrat Party. I am just anti-criminal government and anti government by proxy which manifests itself in one Thaksin Shinawatra. He is evil.

.

You seem to having a bad day. Who do you think pays for all the EU scams ? - the tax payer. Who benefited ? - the already well off, the mafia, the Eurocrats, the traditional elites of the countries etc.

To compare Taksin with Hitler is not only deeply insulting to any jewish and eastern european readers of TV, but it shows a severe lack of understanding of WW2 and European history.

To say the great European leaders didn't have the power and influence Taksin had/has shows an error in your education. Do you not think the likes of Churchill, de Galle, Maggie Thatcher to name only a few had world-wide and history changing influence and not just in a tiny country like Thailand.

To call Taksin "evil" is total yellow shirt propaganda. He was, and still is, a very clever big-time criminal, but evil no. You could call Tony Blair and George Bush evil for their warmongering in Iraq causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and leaving the world with such a toxic legacy, but Taksin taking huge advantage of a deeply corrupt society is not "evil", criminally very clever, but not evil.

Just to set the record straight, I too am a neutral and I've seen first hand corruption in Europe, Africa and now Thailand. Corruption is like a cancer that rots society from the inside. I am also a believer in democracy with all its faults. The corruption with the red shirts is nothing compared to the ANC in South Africa, the Presidents of Zaire and Zimbabwe, Marcos in the Philipines etc etc etc. True democracy has to recognise that people are generally not nice and has to have checks and balances to ensure the max benefit for everyone, not the "few" whatever their shirt colour.

Wow! Elliot you're comparing the UDD/PTP to Mugabe Mobuto and Imelda and you're correct they cannot quite match the level of governance (corruption) the above leaders reached. But unhappily for PTP they didn't get the chance BUT they were on their way to doing so. Shame about that still give it a bit more time and I am sure that rollcall will read Mobuto Seko Seko, Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos, Robert Mugabe and (Pause for dramatic effect + Drum roll) Thaksin Shinawat.

[rametindallas]

OK you have a point, and please I'm not defending TS and his family, but have you never heard of the euro wine lake or the butter mountain ?

Those wine lakes and butter mountains did not go into the pockets of a few as the Rice Support Scheme did. You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria. Educate yourself on Thai history by reading biographies on Thai leaders to be found on Wikipedia (it's not Red or Yellow). In the mean time, until you are 'up to speed' on the inanity/eccentricity of Thai politics, I hope you stay neutral and, whatever you do on this forum, learn to recognize there are propagandist who are pushing a message and they get their talking points from the same source. The almost never offer links to confirm their wild claims and are, in general, very negative on the current situation, which, as far as most Thais go, is not so bad.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am no fan of the current government nor the Democrat Party. I am just anti-criminal government and anti government by proxy which manifests itself in one Thaksin Shinawatra. He is evil.

.

You seem to having a bad day. Who do you think pays for all the EU scams ? - the tax payer. Who benefited ? - the already well off, the mafia, the Eurocrats, the traditional elites of the countries etc.

To compare Taksin with Hitler is not only deeply insulting to any jewish and eastern european readers of TV, but it shows a severe lack of understanding of WW2 and European history.

To say the great European leaders didn't have the power and influence Taksin had/has shows an error in your education. Do you not think the likes of Churchill, de Galle, Maggie Thatcher to name only a few had world-wide and history changing influence and not just in a tiny country like Thailand.

To call Taksin "evil" is total yellow shirt propaganda. He was, and still is, a very clever big-time criminal, but evil no. You could call Tony Blair and George Bush evil for their warmongering in Iraq causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and leaving the world with such a toxic legacy, but Taksin taking huge advantage of a deeply corrupt society is not "evil", criminally very clever, but not evil.

Just to set the record straight, I too am a neutral and I've seen first hand corruption in Europe, Africa and now Thailand. Corruption is like a cancer that rots society from the inside. I am also a believer in democracy with all its faults. The corruption with the red shirts is nothing compared to the ANC in South Africa, the Presidents of Zaire and Zimbabwe, Marcos in the Philipines etc etc etc. True democracy has to recognise that people are generally not nice and has to have checks and balances to ensure the max benefit for everyone, not the "few" whatever their shirt colour.

Good. Now that I know where you stand, I will respond to your post.

You seem to having a bad day. I never have a bad day; life is good for me. Who do you think pays for all the EU scams ? - the tax payer. Who benefited ? - the already well off, the mafia, the Eurocrats, the traditional elites of the countries etc. But in Thailand, all those scams benefited just one family and their cronies; see the difference?

To compare Taksin with Hitler is not only deeply insulting to any jewish and eastern european readers of TV, but it shows a severe lack of understanding of WW2 and European history. I did NOT compare Thaksin to Hitler except for the one example of complete domination of his country's political power, so don't distort my meaning. No other European leader had as much power within their own country as those two (I just finished rereading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich after 20 years and my major at Uni was history). What has this got to do with Jewish people or Slavic people?

To say the great European leaders didn't have the power and influence Taksin had/has shows an error in your education. Do you not think the likes of Churchill, de Galle, Maggie Thatcher to name only a few had world-wide and history changing influence and not just in a tiny country like Thailand. Neither Churchill nor de Gaulle nor Thatcher ever had the complete domination of their own country's political system like Thaksin and his veto-proof, rubber-stamp Parliament. I was NOT referring to power on the world stage as you seem to have misunderstood.

To call Taksin "evil" is total yellow shirt propaganda. He was, and still is, a very clever big-time criminal, but evil no. You could call Tony Blair and George Bush evil for their warmongering in Iraq causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and leaving the world with such a toxic legacy, but Taksin taking huge advantage of a deeply corrupt society is not "evil", criminally very clever, but not evil. So if one is clever about it and the country's political system is already corrupt, it is not evil? Criminality by one's own government, on a grand scale, that deprives citizens of prosperity so that the leader and his cronies can line their pockets is not evil? Just the money stolen by the rice scheme alone could have provided for better schools, hospitals, infrastructure, etc. Those billions of Thai Baht are now off-shore and can never be used to improve the condition of Thai citizens' lives. This was the Thai government doing the stealing; not some mafia or common thief. Your moral ambiguity is astounding.

BTW, I do call GB and TB evil for their warmongering; thousands dead and mangled for what? Are Iraqi people better off now?

Just to set the record straight, I too am a neutral I clearly stated that I am NOT neutral and you delude yourself to think that you are. and I've seen first hand corruption in Europe, Africa and now Thailand. Corruption is like a cancer that rots society from the inside. So Thaksin is not evil, he's just a cancer? I am also a believer in democracy with all its faults. The corruption with the red shirts is nothing Neither I nor anyone else is blaming corruption on the Red Shirts. Is this an attempt to draw attention away from Thaksin? compared to the ANC in South Africa, the Presidents of Zaire and Zimbabwe, Marcos in the Philipines etc etc etc. Thaksin was stopped before he could loot Thailand like the examples you stated. Honest debaters don't resort to, "He wasn't worse that Hitler" arguments to defend their democratic hero. True democracy has to recognise that people are generally not nice and has to have checks and balances to ensure the max benefit for everyone, not the "few" whatever their shirt colour. If you had followed Thaksin's time in power, you would know that he dis-empowered every watchdog organization in Thailand, filed multi-million dollar defamation lawsuits against reporters, tried to buy newspapers that printed truths he didn't like or had his cronies withhold advertising from them. etc. He also had a veto-proof majority in Parliament. He had NO checks and balances on his power excepting, in the end, the military when he was illegally occupying Government House. He famously said that if you weren't a supporter, his government wouldn't give you any aid. BTW, Red Shirts/UDD is an organization totally fabricated, funded, and directed by Thaksin. The Red Shirts/UDD are NOT the people of the North and NE.

Now that I've drawn you out as being a 'neutral poser' and exposed you as the Thaksin apologist that you truly are, my mission is accomplished. Have a nice day.

.

Edited June 23, 2015 by rametindallas

[eliotness]

To compare what Robert Mugabe did to Zimbabwe to what Thaksin was doing to Thailand is to show a serious misunderstanding of recent history. The history of Thailand and Zimbabwe/Rhodesia is so totally different, the only common factor is corruption, but the scale of it and the violent consequences, despite the yellow shirt rants, is worlds apart.

[rametindallas]

To compare what Robert Mugabe did to Zimbabwe to what Thaksin was doing to Thailand is to show a serious misunderstanding of recent history. The history of Thailand and Zimbabwe/Rhodesia is so totally different, the only common factor is corruption, but the scale of it and the violent consequences, despite the yellow shirt rants, is worlds apart.

Obtuse, much?

obtuse: annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

.

[eliotness]

Dear Rametindallas

You must be having a seriously bad day. You equate Thaksin with Adolf Hitler and then Robert Mugabe. Don't know what you're smoking but I suspect it's illegal.

[rametindallas]

I too am a neutral (Eliotness, #38 above)

I'm not sure who else Mr. Eliotness is referring to....Just somebody else claiming nuetrality on a Political discussion Board.

Not possible...... neutrality doesn't exist on a Political discussion Board.

Some think that by claiming neutrality, it enhances their point-of-view.

I chuckle at those who claim neutrality, and then proceed to dump all over one side of the political divide. For example, the anti-Thaksin comments in Post #38 belie such characterizations. Chiming into the Post-Thaksin demonization campaign waged by the anti-democrats, in whole or in part, is not neutral. Same as if somebody indicates they are neutral, and then call Suthep an idiot.

But, but, but, Suthep IS an idiot and he envies Thaksin's success. He wishes he could copy Thaksin. In some ways, Suthep is worse than Thaksin; it's just that Suthep failed to achieve his evil goals.

.

[DrTuner]

I doubt the consumers of the products from ethanol manufacturers will notice. Lao khao isn't exactly the connoisseurs choice.

[eliotness]

This post should be about a rice subsidy scheme that was wide open to fraud. Whether Thaksin planned it from the start or it just evolved into a huge scam, is such a totally sad reflection on Thai society and the total lack of professional investigative journalism in the Kingdom.

Evil is such a loaded word, comparing the murder of 6 million Jews and millions of Poles, Eastern Europeans, Russians and so many other Europeans, to what Thaksin did, or tried to do, is so so so very wrong. If you believe in a God, I hope he (or she) will forgive you.

[eliotness]

Just for the record, Robert Mugabe ordered the killing of thousands of Matabele, the bodies of these people were disposed of by putting them down disused mine shafts. How on God's earth can you equate Thaksin to that maniac ?

[rametindallas]

This post should be about a rice subsidy scheme that was wide open to fraud. Whether Thaksin planned it from the start or it just evolved into a huge scam, is such a totally sad reflection on Thai society and the total lack of professional investigative journalism in the Kingdom.

Evil is such a loaded word, comparing the murder of 6 million Jews and millions of Poles, Eastern Europeans, Russians and so many other Europeans, to what Thaksin did, or tried to do, is so so so very wrong. If you believe in a God, I hope he (or she) will forgive you.

So, according to you, if Thaksin wasn't responsible for the murder of 6 million Jews and Poles, he can't be evil? You don't seem to be getting much support on this forum. I am sorry I probed your mind; it is a dark and scary place.

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[rametindallas]

Just for the record, Robert Mugabe ordered the killing of thousands of Matabele, the bodies of these people were disposed of by putting them down disused mine shafts. How on God's earth can you equate Thaksin to that maniac ?

You are the only only one inserting Robt. Mugabe into the conversation.

Deflect from Thaksin, much?

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[eliotness]

OK Mr Rametindallas, what actual real proof do you have that only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme and what is the source of that information ?

I found your use of the word "evil" to be OTT and then when you compared Thaksin's power in Thailand on a par with Hitler's in Germany then I realised you are way way OTT. By the way if you were a history student and have even read Shirer's book twice, then you would know Hitler was Austrian not German. I tried to explain to you how I would define "evil" by mentioning people I consider evil. This was not in any way to deflect from Thaksin just to put "evil" in a true context.

If you think stating facts "dark and scary" then I would suggest your talents belong in the US Tea Party.

[halloween]

OK Mr Rametindallas, what actual real proof do you have that only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme and what is the source of that information ?

I found your use of the word "evil" to be OTT and then when you compared Thaksin's power in Thailand on a par with Hitler's in Germany then I realised you are way way OTT. By the way if you were a history student and have even read Shirer's book twice, then you would know Hitler was Austrian not German. I tried to explain to you how I would define "evil" by mentioning people I consider evil. This was not in any way to deflect from Thaksin just to put "evil" in a true context.

If you think stating facts "dark and scary" then I would suggest your talents belong in the US Tea Party.

ONLY??? Where does "only" come into it? If a politician proposes a policy which fails completely to meet its stated aims, causes a huge loss to the public purse, and he and his family profits from it, that is corruption. That others, cronies, co-conspirators and/or innocent parties also profited is immaterial.

A man who has based his huge fortune on corruption, monopoly, and abuse of office, and who continues to seek power to extend that wealth, may not be "evil" in your black and white world, but pardon us who see him as a bloody dark shade of grey.

[eliotness]

OK Mr Rametindallas, what actual real proof do you have that only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme and what is the source of that information ?

I found your use of the word "evil" to be OTT and then when you compared Thaksin's power in Thailand on a par with Hitler's in Germany then I realised you are way way OTT. By the way if you were a history student and have even read Shirer's book twice, then you would know Hitler was Austrian not German. I tried to explain to you how I would define "evil" by mentioning people I consider evil. This was not in any way to deflect from Thaksin just to put "evil" in a true context.

If you think stating facts "dark and scary" then I would suggest your talents belong in the US Tea Party.

ONLY??? Where does "only" come into it? If a politician proposes a policy which fails completely to meet its stated aims, causes a huge loss to the public purse, and he and his family profits from it, that is corruption. That others, cronies, co-conspirators and/or innocent parties also profited is immaterial.

A man who has based his huge fortune on corruption, monopoly, and abuse of office, and who continues to seek power to extend that wealth, may not be "evil" in your black and white world, but pardon us who see him as a bloody dark shade of grey.

My use of the word "only" was a reference to the comment in post 45, where it was stated "only Thaksin's family and their cronies benefited from the rice scam". It was with no intent to trivialise the crime.

[mikemac]

I'm not a Thaksin fan, but..................................................

[rametindallas]

OK Mr Rametindallas, what actual real proof do you have that only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme and what is the source of that information ?

I found your use of the word "evil" to be OTT and then when you compared Thaksin's power in Thailand on a par with Hitler's in Germany then I realised you are way way OTT. By the way if you were a history student and have even read Shirer's book twice, then you would know Hitler was Austrian not German. I tried to explain to you how I would define "evil" by mentioning people I consider evil. This was not in any way to deflect from Thaksin just to put "evil" in a true context.

If you think stating facts "dark and scary" then I would suggest your talents belong in the US Tea Party.

Distort my postings, much? Your words below are appropriately in Red and they are direct quotes.

OK Mr Rametindallas, what actual real proof do you have that only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme and what is the source of that information ?

Please refer to the post # and quote me where I stated that "only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme". I did not write that so you won't be able to. If you are going to accuse someone of lying, you should quote the lie and then prove it is a lie and not just make up accusations. What I did say (in post #45 in this thread) was: But in Thailand, all those scams benefited just one family and their cronies

I found your use of the word "evil" to be OTT

According to the dictionary (English), evil: profoundly immoral, malevolent. Thaksin was/is profoundly immoral as illustrated by the way he used/abused his baby sister to aid him in robbing the Thai treasury and then leaving her to the justice system. That is evil. He is demonstrably malevolent with his use of Red Shirt rowdies to intimidate any who would challenge him, attempting two soft-coups where, in the second one, 92 persons lost their lives because he had his money confiscated by the Abhisit government. That is evil. Thaksin's 'War on Drugs' cost the live of many who never got a trial. That is evil. The incredible size of the theft from the Thai treasury and from future taxes it will take to pay for that theft, when there are so many needy Thai citizens, is evil. One doesn't have to be a mass murderer to be evil, as you are trying to suggest

then when you compared Thaksin's power in Thailand on a par with Hitler's in Germany

Thaksin had a veto-proof rubber-stamp majority that non-corrupt leaders rarely enjoy. You cannot quote me where I said Thaksin's power was on a par with AH. What I did said (in post #31 in this thread) was: "You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria" and it is true that no post 1945 leader in Europe enjoyed the power Thaksin commanded in Thailand when he was PM. If that is not a true statement, name a European leader, since 1945, who had the power in their country that Thaksin had in Thailand. Just because English is not your first language doesn't not give you permission to distort what I write.

By the way if you were a history student and have even read Shirer's book twice, then you would know Hitler was Austrian not German.

You really got me there. My bad. In my haste I wrote Bavaria when I should have written Austria. Forgive me? Does my mistake change the value of the point I was making? It is obvious that you knew exactly to whom I was referring.

I tried to explain to you how I would define "evil" by mentioning people I consider evil.

Yes, for you, to be evil one has to be a mass-murderer; as you gave so many examples of. So, by your standards, Thaksin is not evil. I guess that's how you can be a Thaksin apologist and still tell yourself you have not sold your soul to the Devil.

NOTICE: I want to warn you now that it is against forum rules to misquote member's posts. If you want to respond to me in the future, you need to quote the post# and copy/paste what I actually wrote and respond to that, as I have demonstrated here. Paraphrasing what I write is NOT acceptable. If you continue to misrepresent what I post, I shall report you to the forum moderators.

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Edited June 24, 2015 by rametindallas

[eliotness]

OK Mr Rametindallas, what actual real proof do you have that only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme and what is the source of that information ?

I found your use of the word "evil" to be OTT and then when you compared Thaksin's power in Thailand on a par with Hitler's in Germany then I realised you are way way OTT. By the way if you were a history student and have even read Shirer's book twice, then you would know Hitler was Austrian not German. I tried to explain to you how I would define "evil" by mentioning people I consider evil. This was not in any way to deflect from Thaksin just to put "evil" in a true context.

If you think stating facts "dark and scary" then I would suggest your talents belong in the US Tea Party.

Distort my postings, much? Your words below are appropriately in Red and they are direct quotes.

OK Mr Rametindallas, what actual real proof do you have that only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme and what is the source of that information ?

Please refer to the post # and quote me where I stated that "only Thaksin and his family made money from the rice subsidy scheme". I did not write that so you won't be able to. If you are going to accuse someone of lying, you should quote the lie and then prove it is a lie and not just make up accusations. What I did say (in post #45 in this thread) was: But in Thailand, all those scams benefited just one family and their cronies

I found your use of the word "evil" to be OTT

According to the dictionary (English), evil: profoundly immoral, malevolent. Thaksin was/is profoundly immoral as illustrated by the way he used/abused his baby sister to aid him in robbing the Thai treasury and then leaving her to the justice system. That is evil. He is demonstrably malevolent with his use of Red Shirt rowdies to intimidate any who would challenge him, attempting two soft-coups where, in the second one, 92 persons lost their lives because he had his money confiscated by the Abhisit government. That is evil. Thaksin's 'War on Drugs' cost the live of many who never got a trial. That is evil. The incredible size of the theft from the Thai treasury and from future taxes it will take to pay for that theft, when there are so many needy Thai citizens, is evil. One doesn't have to be a mass murderer to be evil, as you are trying to suggest

then when you compared Thaksin's power in Thailand on a par with Hitler's in Germany

Thaksin had a veto-proof rubber-stamp majority that non-corrupt leaders rarely enjoy. You cannot quote me where I said Thaksin's power was on a par with AH. What I did said (in post #31 in this thread) was: "You haven't had a leader in Europe with the influence of Thaksin since that guy with the funny mustache from Bavaria" and it is true that no post 1945 leader in Europe enjoyed the power Thaksin commanded in Thailand when he was PM. If that is not a true statement, name a European leader, since 1945, who had the power in their country that Thaksin had in Thailand. Just because English is not your first language doesn't not give you permission to distort what I write.

By the way if you were a history student and have even read Shirer's book twice, then you would know Hitler was Austrian not German.

You really got me there. My bad. In my haste I wrote Bavaria when I should have written Austria. Forgive me? Does my mistake change the value of the point I was making? It is obvious that you knew exactly to whom I was referring.

I tried to explain to you how I would define "evil" by mentioning people I consider evil.

Yes, for you, to be evil one has to be a mass-murderer; as you gave so many examples of. So, by your standards, Thaksin is not evil. I guess that's how you can be a Thaksin apologist and still tell yourself you have not sold your soul to the Devil.

NOTICE: I want to warn you now that it is against forum rules to misquote member's posts. If you want to respond to me in the future, you need to quote the post# and copy/paste what I actually wrote and respond to that, as I have demonstrated here. Paraphrasing what I write is NOT acceptable. If you continue to misrepresent what I post, I shall report you to the forum moderators.

.

Wow you have got the bull between the horns, either that or your piles must be giving you hell. Well not to worry old chap, I will not reply to your rants anymore as I've more important things to do, like watching the new crop of rice grow.