Big Impact Expected From Tougher Visa Rules

[Pattaya46]

... because of this exodus ...

Hi John K,

Please stop giving false news from your imagination !

From what we know until now, the only changes will be these ones :

- a lot of people living in Thailand will have to ask for a Tourist Visa when they used to make simple Visa Run.

- a few people making very frequent short stays in Thailand could have now problem to make them.

Nothing more.

Everything else is pure speculation and talking about Exodus is ridiculous

Pattaya46

[Pattaya-Partyman]

I do not understand all this trouble.

Make a legal Visa - and stay in Thailand as long as you want legally.

Non Immigrant -B- = Set up a company, apply for a work permit, and get a 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You are older than 50 year - you deposit THB 800.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You marry a Thai lady - you deposit THB 400.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

You not have to marry your gf - hundreds of Issaan ladies marry you only for visa matters - and your problem is solved too.

[bkkandrew]

More Analysis.

After talking with a few people on the phone and in person, the more I feel the following. Please be open minded on this as only a few pieces of the puzzle are in place.

First: According to Sunbelt the law has been on the books from about 2001. My feeling is once the Thais passed it they started to look at it more closely and saw the negatives outweighed the positives (Translation insanity), so they just put it in the shelf and let it gather dust.

Second: If you look at countries that have a bit of turmoil going on, typically they like to limit the number of eyes so they can do what they plan to do. We have seen this very recently in the Middle East with Iraq and now Iran. I am sure there are more but I think you know where I am going with this. History has shown this type of action (getting foreigners out of the country) precedes some sort of action that they prefer the world not see.

Third: Non of this has hit the Thai press. News like this should be front page. Translation keeping the Thais blind.

Fourth: The John Karr issue was just an excuse to invoke this law. The same as the fake car bomb was an excuse to start cleaning house. Same plot just different elements.

Fifth: It has been suggested that Thaksin would stage a coup if he felt he was going to be forced out, so the military moved all he key man to impotent posts to remove that possibility. Thaksin just put them back in posts that he could take over the military.

Sixth: Thaksin has suggested that he may drop out. I simply see this as luring a false sense of security. I know he has too much to lose if he drops out, so any comment to that effect is just deception.

Seventh: I feel it is well within Thaksin thinking to have acceptable financial losses in Thailand because of this exodus. He personally would experience minimal loses with most of the losses going to the working class who don’t like him anyway.

Eighth: The timing of this law coincides with legal action against him, elections, and the potential that the TRT will be dissolved.

Based on this I now feel that this law is being enacted because Thaksin plans to use the military to insure his position as leader of Thailand, however I am not sure what title he will choose.

I invite your views on this. Unfortunately for all of us I have been right much more than I have been wrong.

I am not qualified to examine the political manouverings at issue. I would say that, as a theory, it stacks up There are too many coincidences happening all at once to be a coincidence. I actually would add the new airport in all of this, as it does give Toxin the ability to control movement of people and blame it on problems in the opening. Control of movement of people internationally is always a central tenet of a coup.

[bkkandrew]

... because of this exodus ...

Hi John K,

Please stop giving false news from your imagination !

From what we know until now, the only changes will be these ones :

- a lot of people living in Thailand will have to ask for a Tourist Visa when they used to make simple Visa Run.

- a few people making very frequent short stays in Thailand could have now problem to make them.

Nothing more.

Everything else is pure speculation and talking about Exodus is ridiculous

Pattaya46

How else does describe a situation when visa runners get to the border and are refused re-entry?

Cambridge Dictionary Definition

exodus noun

1. the movement of a lot of people from a place:

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I do not understand all this trouble.

Make a legal Visa - and stay in Thailand as long as you want legally.

Non Immigrant -B- = Set up a company, apply for a work permit, and get a 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You are older than 50 year - you deposit THB 800.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You marry a Thai lady - you deposit THB 400.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

You not have to marry your gf - hundreds of Issaan ladies marry you only for visa matters - and your problem is solved too.

The sham marriage thing really sounds like a recipe for disaster. For one the Govt says its going to start checking some of the them. Randomly I guess. Also whats to stop a Issan girl etc from extorting money from you or turning you into authorities for brownie points or something?

[Firefan]

I do not understand all this trouble.

Make a legal Visa - and stay in Thailand as long as you want legally.

Non Immigrant -B- = Set up a company, apply for a work permit, and get a 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You are older than 50 year - you deposit THB 800.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You marry a Thai lady - you deposit THB 400.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

You not have to marry your gf - hundreds of Issaan ladies marry you only for visa matters - and your problem is solved too.

Hmm...

Your Non-em B solution: should one not have a real biz? Yes, of course one should - if don't have a biz idea, or have the skills then it is a fake shell company to create a visa - illegal. They are currently checking shell companies used by foreigners to hold real estate - so would seem foolish to go for that route. Also rather expensive and includes monthly vat/accounting costs/yearly tax returns Etc.

Your Non-em O solution based on marriage: if proforma marriage to obtain visa then.. - illegal. They have stated many times that they will check this much harder (presume more unannounced visits to your place/talk weith neighbors Etc.).

Are you beginning to understand that it IS hard for a person that LEGALLY wants to stay in Thailand but under 50+have income/pension/savings from abroad?

Cheers!

[blam]

Hmm bkkrez,

I believe it's this way: If you do happen to get a tourist visa for the US it's 6 months, but this one is easily extended to a year. Any excuse seems to function in your favor, such as 'analysis and comparison of sea shells on the seashore.'

For Canada it's pretty close to that, but you have to show that you have resources and a few resident letters.

For both countries the visa award is very subjective, the easiest hit being in Chiang Mai. Usually a half hour interview, a bank statement, some family pictures, and a couple of sponsor letters will do the job.

If you are a Thai teacher and want to visit either the US or Canada, you can pretty much only go on a group tour, and even that must be applied for a year in advance. (Teachers have a bad reputation of becoming waiters and waitresses in Thai restaurants and never going home, that's perfectly fine by me as long as they are not being taken advantage of by the Thai owners, which is frequently the case.)

It's pretty hard to compare any other visa regulations to the Thai model. Thailand has been frantically waving the tourism flag for more than 20 years now. Thai Airways 'Smooth as silk' thing has been going forever. "Amazing Thailand", "Unseen Thailand", "The Land of Smiles Awaits You". OK yep that's fine for attracting the short term tourist.

Where I have a problem is how they have been shopping the investment and long term visa market like mad, this is a Thai deal, not a farang thing at all. Thaksin has taken trips to Bangladesh, India, and the US shouting out for business and personal investment opportunists that are looking for a place to live and invest. Now they up the ante and say you have 2 weeks to jump or fork over a heck of a lot more money, "Oh I know let's hike that figure by say 250%, they'll pay, for sure they'll pay." (Right) One hour direct flights from India and Bangladesh into Chiang Mai, VAT breaks, lots of other benefits, with low risk being the key. Now they fiddle with it and piss everybody off, hey it's too much like Viet Nam if you ask me, say one thing and do another.

The "crackdown" on visas is most definitely is related to negative press concerning heretofore explained local events over the last 2 months. If the ruling party is re-elected I see more major visa problems for the future. There will be NOTHING STOPPING THEM.

Again this has absolutely nothing to do with the Thai people, God I love these people with all my heart, it has everything to do with the ruling government, Thai Rak Thai.

[Colonel_Mustard]

More Analysis.

After talking with a few people on the phone and in person, the more I feel the following. Please be open minded on this as only a few pieces of the puzzle are in place.

First: According to Sunbelt the law has been on the books from about 2001. My feeling is once the Thais passed it they started to look at it more closely and saw the negatives outweighed the positives (Translation insanity), so they just put it in the shelf and let it gather dust.

Second: If you look at countries that have a bit of turmoil going on, typically they like to limit the number of eyes so they can do what they plan to do. We have seen this very recently in the Middle East with Iraq and now Iran. I am sure there are more but I think you know where I am going with this. History has shown this type of action (getting foreigners out of the country) precedes some sort of action that they prefer the world not see.

Third: Non of this has hit the Thai press. News like this should be front page. Translation keeping the Thais blind.

Fourth: The John Karr issue was just an excuse to invoke this law. The same as the fake car bomb was an excuse to start cleaning house. Same plot just different elements.

Fifth: It has been suggested that Thaksin would stage a coup if he felt he was going to be forced out, so the military moved all he key man to impotent posts to remove that possibility. Thaksin just put them back in posts that he could take over the military.

Sixth: Thaksin has suggested that he may drop out. I simply see this as luring a false sense of security. I know he has too much to lose if he drops out, so any comment to that effect is just deception.

Seventh: I feel it is well within Thaksin thinking to have acceptable financial losses in Thailand because of this exodus. He personally would experience minimal loses with most of the losses going to the working class who don’t like him anyway.

Eighth: The timing of this law coincides with legal action against him, elections, and the potential that the TRT will be dissolved.

Based on this I now feel that this law is being enacted because Thaksin plans to use the military to insure his position as leader of Thailand, however I am not sure what title he will choose.

I invite your views on this. Unfortunately for all of us I have been right much more than I have been wrong.

Cracking stuff. With an imagination like that you should seriously think about becoming a novelist.

[Firefan]

Blam; at least we must give gov/emmigration points for making sense with grandfathering people who already hold an investment visa - I.e. invested money in Thailand based on the governments requests/visa incentives. Cheers!

[John K]

The seventh item is virtually Thaksin’s signature. He goes straight after people who don’t see things his way. This law virtually puts them in the bulls eye to be hurt the most. What other motive would there be to invoke a law that very obviously will hurt Middle class working Thais.

Like I said I hope I am wrong but from about April when I started making predictions about Thaksin I have been at about 70% right. The other things like the airport are coincidental but yes they play a part.

[Beavis and Butthead]

The large number of replies and may worries are not surprising.

However, don't forget that Thailand's immigration laws have laways been very loosely applied.

It is possible for instance to stay in the US indefinitely, by making visa runs to Canada or Mexico.

And how about in Europe?

In most developed countries a stay for tourism purposes may not exceed 90 days in each period of 180 days, or no more than 180 days per year.

IMO (and that of immigration in many countries) anyone staying longer than that period is no longer a tourist, but a resident. Anyone stying in within the europen Union for more than 180 days is considered a resident for tax purposes.

The current rule tightens only the 30 days on arrival permission to stay, but it will not surprise me if the same will soon apply to all form of tourist stay.

The effect to Thailand's economy will be very marginal. But it will affect many that have lived here as permament tourists.

Yet another newbie talking out of his arse. Man, where do they all come from? Out of the woodwork yet again.

Oh and btw, <deleted> are may worries anyway?

Edited September 18, 2006 by Beavis and Butthead

[Firefan]

John, fair enuff mate! Your guesses are as good as anys. I just think too many people on ALL sides have too much to lose for there to be a coup. Hope I am right Cheers!

[atlastaname]

I do not understand all this trouble.

Make a legal Visa - and stay in Thailand as long as you want legally.

Non Immigrant -B- = Set up a company, apply for a work permit, and get a 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You are older than 50 year - you deposit THB 800.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You marry a Thai lady - you deposit THB 400.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

You not have to marry your gf - hundreds of Issaan ladies marry you only for visa matters - and your problem is solved too.

Great as far as that goes but what about those under 50 who do not want to set up a business (a BIG step lets face it) or marry a Thai? How do your 3 choices which you present as an answer to it all, help those people ?

[Pattaya-Partyman]

Easy - if you not want to do all these 3 things - leave Thailand.

[Jimjim]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

Oh goodness. Good job. Bravo.

I was wrong to correct you because I have found there are many lists and many ways to term 3rd-world, developing, and first world, or industrialized. Some lists show Thailand is 3rd-world. I was referring to the designation used by some terming 3rd world countries as the lowest income-economies such as Cambodia, for instance. But under the original definition of "3rd world" this is incorrect. When the term came about, Thailand was under that designation. It had more to do with geography at that time, however, and not economy. But, of course, economy played a factor.

I vote we should even stop using this term "third world" as it can be confusing. I had studied this before and found some to use third world, developing, and developed as three categories, and Thailand was in the second category. But this is faulty.

Basically, even according to your valued source Wikipedia, the term "third world" is out of date. It's not a synonym for "developing," either. If you wanted to lump countires into 3 categories, you could put them in 1. Developed 2. Developing and 3. least developed. Thailand is somehwere in the middle and would be in the number 2 category. I just think Third-world sounds like it's among the lowest of the low in terms of economy, and would lead one to think of "least developed".

Well, this has been fun. Let's do it again sometime. So I did my research. Thailand isn't considered a "third world" country because this terminology is out of date. But the term is subjective, as your valued Wikipedia notes, so that's why we're having this argument. But I was too brief at first. I hope i have corrected myself. Cheers.

As for this visa problem. Go to your home country. Get a proper visa. It's not actually that difficult. At least, it wasn't for me. Takes a little brain power, but I'm sure ya'll have it. Or, go to Malaysia or Philippines, or Cambodia or something.

[bertie1312]

If you have dual nationality/passports, easy to get around the new rules. Will use present used passport (1st) to fly out of Thailand, turn around and fly back with 2nd passport/nationality, do visa run per month, after 90 days fly out with 2nd passport/nationality, turn around and re-enter with 1st again, no worries, my business still runs as I am here permanently. Voila.

[beammeup]

If they were one third of the way smart, they would simply let the falang fo to immig and pay a few hundred B to extend.

Instead of causing more traffic, more wasted fuel [so much for "energy policy"] and making the Burmese and Lao rich.

I guess we file this under "not smart enough."

On the contary, The Thais are being very smart. A poster mentioned about the advertising abroad, this is exactly the point. Thailand wants foreign people in thailand, or rather they want foreign investment....the average sex tourist who does a 30 day run isnt the sort of person that LOS wants.

On the other hand, a businessman who wants to legitimately set up a company that pays taxes and employs Thai personnel is welcome via a work permit.

I can see their point. Someone who has been in Thailand for 5 years on continious 30 day stamps does not bring money into the country and in all honesty is more than likely working illegaly....

The smaller issues is that of those people under 50 who have more than enough money to support themselves but are not ledgable for a retirement visa - This is where the Thai's should change the law.....but at the end of the day, its THEIR country.

One point, very personnal because it's my situation:

I live in Thailand since 01/2002, with a tourist visa (monthly run).

I do work, but not illegaly, I do out sourcing work by internet. The reason is simple, even if I created a company (I did in 2003 and still pay Taxes on it at LamLuka taxe office) I am not entitled to a WP because I do not hire 4 thais. I also precise I tried to hire thais people, but obviously they were not willing to work with the hight stress that out sourcing IT work give usually.

So, yes that steps by the authorities can be a good one (clean a little bit the country from the shitbags who stay only because the beer is cheap and the girls hot), on the oither hand, mostly those shitbags pay, I mean they have money from outside Thailand, obviously they are not able to work too tired by f**** the girls and to drunk by the beers they drink.

The problem, and it's not a immediate problem, is I am not the only one by now to do 'out sourcing', several peoples/small companies are doing so. Thailand was the right place, internet was okie, life cost was okie too and it was possible to compete on this sector with the indians (same price but european/us work process). The soler results will be to push us to another neiborought countries (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia ....). As our investment in harware are small and mobile, move is easy and noting will be left in thailand (a firm that move somewhere else will let the buildings, eventually a plant/fabric and the skills knowledges the local workers have acquires ... alll in one it's easy to re run the business in those conditions .... for IT , it's totally opposite, skills and knowledge can be aquires, but the will to work 15, 18 or more hours , and I mean work not time spend to chat).

I do agree it will not at first be a huge amount of money (btw us I earn about 50/60 k a month) but it's money who was spend integrally here, and as it out source, it mean foreigh currency. The other problem is the technology transfert. Rather than keep up the level of the thai programmers, it will at the end simply keep up the level of www.sanook.com. Last problem, my clients are my clients not because I am able to copy sanook.com with different colors (a kid of 10 can do it), but because some specials knowledge or skills. So even if some new thais coders try to get my market, they will have to show what they can do ....

Anyway, I am going to check the house renting in Vietiame and neighborought (I like Laos)

Roxannnnnnnnne

I think you are one of the GENTLEMEN they are trying to get to pay your taxes! If you stay in Thailand for more than 180 days a year you have to pay tax on money you bring into the country

[libya 115]

If you have dual nationality/passports, easy to get around the new rules. Will use present used passport (1st) to fly out of Thailand, turn around and fly back with 2nd passport/nationality, do visa run per month, after 90 days fly out with 2nd passport/nationality, turn around and re-enter with 1st again, no worries, my business still runs as I am here permanently. Voila.

The two passport solution is fraught with difficulties. If they were to prove that you were exploiting a new 3 stamp policy: they might not see the funny side and get mean.

If you are going to leave the country anyway, just get a valid Thai visa from the other country.

[zeusbheld]

Third: Non of this has hit the Thai press. News like this should be front page. Translation keeping the Thais blind.

according to my gf the whole thing is a) politically motivated, in order to play to TRT's (nationalistic and somewhat xenophobic) constituency at election time. the fact that it didnt make the thai papers is not surprising to her--according to her, thais generally don't read the paper, except for that one with all the murders, accidents, and celebrities. TRT will talk it up in campaign rallies. little or no mention in the papers, but hyping at political rallies, is standard operating procedure for election-motivated policy moves. some other thais i've talked to have made similar comments.

also, thais in general that i know are VERY pissed off about farrangs working here and paying no taxes, regardless of their political views. this policy seems absurd if it is intended to address that, but a) the laws are already on the books, so they can move fast (in time for election) and it doesn't matter if they are really doing something, it's about the perception of the average voter.

Fifth: It has been suggested that Thaksin would stage a coup if he felt he was going to be forced out, so the military moved all he key man to impotent posts to remove that possibility. Thaksin just put them back in posts that he could take over the military.

there has not only been a rumor of this for a while, but the king himself (according to my gf, i was watching at the time but i don't speak thai) mentioned a plotted coup in a speech. the good news is it likely would be non-violent.

i doubt that is the motive for this particular policy however. more likely is electioneering. i'll start believing it's a clearout of foreigners when they start changing *all* the policies.

my personal opinion is that the possibility of a coup is still very high, but won't happen until the king dies of natural causes. most coup rumors i've heard of say as much.

my personal opinion is that this move has little to do with that, and is just part of the general 'genius' for social reform TRT exhibited when outlawed selling beer in lotus in the afternoon.

[zeusbheld]

... because of this exodus ...

Hi John K,

Please stop giving false news from your imagination !

i was under the impression that the thread was FOR speculating about the potential impact of the rule changes?

From what we know until now, the only changes will be these ones :

- a lot of people living in Thailand will have to ask for a Tourist Visa when they used to make simple Visa Run.

- a few people making very frequent short stays in Thailand could have now problem to make them.

Nothing more.

Everything else is pure speculation and talking about Exodus is ridiculous

you, too, are giving 'false news from your imagination.' which is fine, that's what this thread is about, but if i may make a small request: don't bother pissing and moaning about other people speculating while you're speculating in a thread dedicated to speculation. please? even if *your* speculation turns out to be correct it's still speculation, unless you are, in fact, GOD.

[zeusbheld]

I do not understand all this trouble.

Make a legal Visa - and stay in Thailand as long as you want legally.

Non Immigrant -B- = Set up a company, apply for a work permit, and get a 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You are older than 50 year - you deposit THB 800.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You marry a Thai lady - you deposit THB 400.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

You not have to marry your gf - hundreds of Issaan ladies marry you only for visa matters - and your problem is solved too.

The sham marriage thing really sounds like a recipe for disaster. For one the Govt says its going to start checking some of the them. Randomly I guess. Also whats to stop a Issan girl etc from extorting money from you or turning you into authorities for brownie points or something?

yeah i'd be more worried about the fake wife, her family, her father's gambling debts, the chronic need for buffalo repair kits (and SUVs, big screen TVs, etc)...

really bad idea.

immigration's foot up your ass will be the least of your troubles.

[zeusbheld]

John, fair enuff mate! Your guesses are as good as anys. I just think too many people on ALL sides have too much to lose for there to be a coup. Hope I am right Cheers!

that hasn't stopped too many coups, but i hope you're right too.

[sting01]

If they were one third of the way smart, they would simply let the falang fo to immig and pay a few hundred B to extend.

Instead of causing more traffic, more wasted fuel [so much for "energy policy"] and making the Burmese and Lao rich.

I guess we file this under "not smart enough."

On the contary, The Thais are being very smart. A poster mentioned about the advertising abroad, this is exactly the point. Thailand wants foreign people in thailand, or rather they want foreign investment....the average sex tourist who does a 30 day run isnt the sort of person that LOS wants.

On the other hand, a businessman who wants to legitimately set up a company that pays taxes and employs Thai personnel is welcome via a work permit.

I can see their point. Someone who has been in Thailand for 5 years on continious 30 day stamps does not bring money into the country and in all honesty is more than likely working illegaly....

The smaller issues is that of those people under 50 who have more than enough money to support themselves but are not ledgable for a retirement visa - This is where the Thai's should change the law.....but at the end of the day, its THEIR country.

One point, very personnal because it's my situation:

I live in Thailand since 01/2002, with a tourist visa (monthly run).

I do work, but not illegaly, I do out sourcing work by internet. The reason is simple, even if I created a company (I did in 2003 and still pay Taxes on it at LamLuka taxe office) I am not entitled to a WP because I do not hire 4 thais. I also precise I tried to hire thais people, but obviously they were not willing to work with the hight stress that out sourcing IT work give usually.

So, yes that steps by the authorities can be a good one (clean a little bit the country from the shitbags who stay only because the beer is cheap and the girls hot), on the oither hand, mostly those shitbags pay, I mean they have money from outside Thailand, obviously they are not able to work too tired by f**** the girls and to drunk by the beers they drink.

The problem, and it's not a immediate problem, is I am not the only one by now to do 'out sourcing', several peoples/small companies are doing so. Thailand was the right place, internet was okie, life cost was okie too and it was possible to compete on this sector with the indians (same price but european/us work process). The soler results will be to push us to another neiborought countries (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia ....). As our investment in harware are small and mobile, move is easy and noting will be left in thailand (a firm that move somewhere else will let the buildings, eventually a plant/fabric and the skills knowledges the local workers have acquires ... alll in one it's easy to re run the business in those conditions .... for IT , it's totally opposite, skills and knowledge can be aquires, but the will to work 15, 18 or more hours , and I mean work not time spend to chat).

I do agree it will not at first be a huge amount of money (btw us I earn about 50/60 k a month) but it's money who was spend integrally here, and as it out source, it mean foreigh currency. The other problem is the technology transfert. Rather than keep up the level of the thai programmers, it will at the end simply keep up the level of www.sanook.com. Last problem, my clients are my clients not because I am able to copy sanook.com with different colors (a kid of 10 can do it), but because some specials knowledge or skills. So even if some new thais coders try to get my market, they will have to show what they can do ....

Anyway, I am going to check the house renting in Vietiame and neighborought (I like Laos)

Roxannnnnnnnne

Roxy------

You would qualify for a non-imm-multi-Bissued elsewhere

There is even a chance that if you set your Biz up correctly that you could get a WP

Elsewhere? Where exactly? Why it's so complicate in fact?

So I also do NOT think Thai economy will collapse because I am going, I am a low profile individual even if member of the 'franco thai chambre de commerce', but for sure it will be something in less every month in thailand, because no one will take my place, my clients will not change for someone else (not many people able to do what I am doing).

So, even if I could make my situation okie that time, will I be able to make it okie the next time? Imagine stuck at polpet while I have clients waiting me to deliver my work? What about my computer? What about my clothes, my frige ... und so weiter.

Yes, it will be no collapse of economy, because thailand is thailand, and it will be still suckers to send money online to their mis noi, because thai accept suffering more than we do, because thai are still inside a 'patronising system'. But ....

I am not bitter, nor I am angry. It's Thailand, so obviously Thai know best what is the best for themself, obviously too I feel they do not think I am fitting this description.

One point for those who call people like me, the monthly visa runners, ILLEGAL ALIENs; the 30 days visa I get each month is legal, genuily delivered by an immigration office in Aranyaprathet, and I also precise in 5 years I was never asked for money. So I do stay legally (in accord to the law) in thailand, and even if I work, it's NOT considered by the law as working IN thailand, nothing is product locally, and the income are deposed abroad. The regulation change, so I do adapt myself by moving where I can create a LEGAL company with 500$ (maybe less). About also the legality of 'providing a boost of economy to thailand', I do stand against this idea, that the only country who implemented that regulation where a foreigner have to support local hookers, thei familly and local economy. I am here because there is economical opportunity, not to support thai people or the thai economy.

So I go, thailand will exist after my departure, maybe it will be better (if I can believe what some people say). Thailand will not miss me (even if the people who know me and just learned I will go are or crying or trying to find a solution to make me stay), but for sure I will not miss it too. It have cost me 20 years of saving to try to make a business here, and now I have only one choice : la valise ou le cercueil (the luggage or the coffin, algerian saying in 1960). I go because after this step, that I could avoid with some paper work I do agree, it will be another one, and another one. I do believe in freedom, not the freedom to do whatever you want because that is no freedom but anarchy, but the freedom to choose where you can stay and have a life.

Be honest, those of us who are not US, when we open a company here it's like trowing money throught the window, because we must have a thai patner who never (or rarely) come with anything, but who will/must have the bank access. Have you ever hear about ONE (yes just one) foreigner who invested in Thailand and then took back his investment and went somewhere else?

[sting01]

I think you are one of the GENTLEMEN they are trying to get to pay your taxes! If you stay in Thailand for more than 180 days a year you have to pay tax on money you bring into the country

If by gentlemen you are supposing my family is a noble one, indeed you are right.a Pope (calixte II) , a huge bunch of archibishop, title of archcount of the H.R.E. can make commoners to call us gentlemen.

I also precised that I DO PAY TAXES, Lumluka taxe office. SHould I invite you to not use a beer bottle as eyeglass, or maybe use some spare time to go to primary school and learn how to read correctly.

What I describe is an UBUESQUE (senseless situation) where one person can legally create a company, get a bank account (Siam commercial bank) for both the company and himself, both with a CC, where a person pay taxes, but is not able to get a legal document making his stay longer than 30 days.And then now it will be no more than 90 days every 6 month.

Taxes? I come from france, taxes are about 48% of the income there, so do oy uthink I mind to pay here. What a joke indeed. I never tried to escape my olbligations, because I am a foreigner and by so I have to more straight than a thai.

What I said, but obviously you missed the point, is the system is not looking for people like me. I do not use cellphone, so yes AIS or DTAC do not earn a penny of my money. The noddle shop at the corner of my street get my money.... If you can understand the parabol. So yes I'll go, because I do not want to break the law, nor going to jail, not even bother the administration people with my forms. I am sure they have better to check all the numerous foreign investors like you you are begging to invest millions of baths in thailand (Temasek just did it, I suppose you know how Thai people were happy to learn it ... Guess what is my point ... because when the selling of AIS will be nullified on the ground of selling thailand be sure it will next all the small and middle size business owned by foreigners).

Soon, let say within 10 years, if this new regulation is enforced, what is my situation will be the situation of people how owne condominium, owne middle sized business, own cars .... they will simply not fit anymore the regulation, because suddently thai administratin will discover mafia or other gangs owne condominium.

What is trully funny is the following : those who indeed breaked the law by not going to visa run, working without any documentation, paying no taxes, living in the dark, those one will be no afected. They will simply continue to hide in the dark

[jdinasia]

If they were one third of the way smart, they would simply let the falang fo to immig and pay a few hundred B to extend.

Instead of causing more traffic, more wasted fuel [so much for "energy policy"] and making the Burmese and Lao rich.

I guess we file this under "not smart enough."

On the contary, The Thais are being very smart. A poster mentioned about the advertising abroad, this is exactly the point. Thailand wants foreign people in thailand, or rather they want foreign investment....the average sex tourist who does a 30 day run isnt the sort of person that LOS wants.

On the other hand, a businessman who wants to legitimately set up a company that pays taxes and employs Thai personnel is welcome via a work permit.

I can see their point. Someone who has been in Thailand for 5 years on continious 30 day stamps does not bring money into the country and in all honesty is more than likely working illegaly....

The smaller issues is that of those people under 50 who have more than enough money to support themselves but are not ledgable for a retirement visa - This is where the Thai's should change the law.....but at the end of the day, its THEIR country.

One point, very personnal because it's my situation:

I live in Thailand since 01/2002, with a tourist visa (monthly run).

I do work, but not illegaly, I do out sourcing work by internet. The reason is simple, even if I created a company (I did in 2003 and still pay Taxes on it at LamLuka taxe office) I am not entitled to a WP because I do not hire 4 thais. I also precise I tried to hire thais people, but obviously they were not willing to work with the hight stress that out sourcing IT work give usually.

So, yes that steps by the authorities can be a good one (clean a little bit the country from the shitbags who stay only because the beer is cheap and the girls hot), on the oither hand, mostly those shitbags pay, I mean they have money from outside Thailand, obviously they are not able to work too tired by f**** the girls and to drunk by the beers they drink.

The problem, and it's not a immediate problem, is I am not the only one by now to do 'out sourcing', several peoples/small companies are doing so. Thailand was the right place, internet was okie, life cost was okie too and it was possible to compete on this sector with the indians (same price but european/us work process). The soler results will be to push us to another neiborought countries (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia ....). As our investment in harware are small and mobile, move is easy and noting will be left in thailand (a firm that move somewhere else will let the buildings, eventually a plant/fabric and the skills knowledges the local workers have acquires ... alll in one it's easy to re run the business in those conditions .... for IT , it's totally opposite, skills and knowledge can be aquires, but the will to work 15, 18 or more hours , and I mean work not time spend to chat).

I do agree it will not at first be a huge amount of money (btw us I earn about 50/60 k a month) but it's money who was spend integrally here, and as it out source, it mean foreigh currency. The other problem is the technology transfert. Rather than keep up the level of the thai programmers, it will at the end simply keep up the level of www.sanook.com. Last problem, my clients are my clients not because I am able to copy sanook.com with different colors (a kid of 10 can do it), but because some specials knowledge or skills. So even if some new thais coders try to get my market, they will have to show what they can do ....

Anyway, I am going to check the house renting in Vietiame and neighborought (I like Laos)

Roxannnnnnnnne

Roxy------

You would qualify for a non-imm-multi-Bissued elsewhere

There is even a chance that if you set your Biz up correctly that you could get a WP

Elsewhere? Where exactly? Why it's so complicate in fact?

So I also do NOT think Thai economy will collapse because I am going, I am a low profile individual even if member of the 'franco thai chambre de commerce', but for sure it will be something in less every month in thailand, because no one will take my place, my clients will not change for someone else (not many people able to do what I am doing).

So, even if I could make my situation okie that time, will I be able to make it okie the next time? Imagine stuck at polpet while I have clients waiting me to deliver my work? What about my computer? What about my clothes, my frige ... und so weiter.

Yes, it will be no collapse of economy, because thailand is thailand, and it will be still suckers to send money online to their mis noi, because thai accept suffering more than we do, because thai are still inside a 'patronising system'. But ....

I am not bitter, nor I am angry. It's Thailand, so obviously Thai know best what is the best for themself, obviously too I feel they do not think I am fitting this description.

One point for those who call people like me, the monthly visa runners, ILLEGAL ALIENs; the 30 days visa I get each month is legal, genuily delivered by an immigration office in Aranyaprathet, and I also precise in 5 years I was never asked for money. So I do stay legally (in accord to the law) in thailand, and even if I work, it's NOT considered by the law as working IN thailand, nothing is product locally, and the income are deposed abroad. The regulation change, so I do adapt myself by moving where I can create a LEGAL company with 500$ (maybe less). About also the legality of 'providing a boost of economy to thailand', I do stand against this idea, that the only country who implemented that regulation where a foreigner have to support local hookers, thei familly and local economy. I am here because there is economical opportunity, not to support thai people or the thai economy.

So I go, thailand will exist after my departure, maybe it will be better (if I can believe what some people say). Thailand will not miss me (even if the people who know me and just learned I will go are or crying or trying to find a solution to make me stay), but for sure I will not miss it too. It have cost me 20 years of saving to try to make a business here, and now I have only one choice : la valise ou le cercueil (the luggage or the coffin, algerian saying in 1960). I go because after this step, that I could avoid with some paper work I do agree, it will be another one, and another one. I do believe in freedom, not the freedom to do whatever you want because that is no freedom but anarchy, but the freedom to choose where you can stay and have a life.

Be honest, those of us who are not US, when we open a company here it's like trowing money throught the window, because we must have a thai patner who never (or rarely) come with anything, but who will/must have the bank access. Have you ever hear about ONE (yes just one) foreigner who invested in Thailand and then took back his investment and went somewhere else?

Yes I have known people that have made $$ here

But yes you are bitter and angry ... acknowledge that fact and then decide if you are intersted in staying here. If you are then READ up on how you can get a non-imm-b easily. You have a Biz. If it is a legit biz and you take the paperwork as described on the main site at http://www.thaivisa.com/422.0.html

or

http://www.thaivisa.com/332.0.html

This has been a rough time for people with interests here ... but you CAN learn and make it work for you probably!

[scalper]

I am on a non imm B visa multiple entry ( started 2 months ago) without having asked for a WP.

Just with a letter from a thai lawyer saying they have been appointed by me to set up a company.

[rishi]

Yes, they are very willing to give most people with a good story a chance, but try to get the second non-imm "B" without a wp.

[blam]

After all of the balls have been thrown into the air so haphazardly by the Thai government; just remember, madman/genius Sir Isaac Newton, the man that penned the most important laws the world has ever known, before, now, and after we pass on to the great divide, said... "the entire universe is made up of basically two things, hydrogen and ignorance." Yes guys. So here we are in Thailand 2006, samples of both.

These new Thai laws are nothing, absolutely nothing.

Sure, we feel lost, dejected, and without direction when the country where we live, work, and love rejects us. (Anterior singulate part of the brain.) We will figure a way around his minor visa bump in the road, we always have and we always will.

Reality check, This IS Thailand. Yes it is, and don't we love it? When you finally do encounter that immigration official in Ranong, Mae Sai, Chiang Khong, (groan) or wherever, SMILE, don't say or do anything, just SMILE, and watch what happens. Just make sure you have a real visa in your passport. That's all there is to it.

[baboon]

Again this has absolutely nothing to do with the Thai people, God I love these people with all my heart, it has everything to do with the ruling government, Thai Rak Thai.

I write this to those posters who insist "Thais can run their country any way they want." I cannot leave this uncontradicted. The vast majority of Thai people dont really have any choice; from the teacher to the car salesman to the bargirl. Like so many countries in the west, Thais have a pretty dismal choice of candidates, 99% or more have the call to public service merely to advance their own personal interests. Same team different colours. The majority of Thais have no real opportunity to opine how their country should be run - only the powers that be no matter what happens. I repeat: just like many of us in the west, so dont accuse me of Thai bashing here.

[backflip]

"I write this to those posters who insist 'Thais can run their country any way they want.' I cannot leave this uncontradicted. The vast majority of Thai people dont really have any choice; from the teacher to the car salesman to the bargirl. Like so many countries in the west, Thais have a pretty dismal choice of candidates, 99% or more have the call to public service merely to advance their own personal interests. Same team different colours. The majority of Thais have no real opportunity to opine how their country should be run - only the powers that be no matter what happens."

Similar to any other country.