Big Impact Expected From Tougher Visa Rules

[udon]

Aviador's situation:

As he's been cleaned out, if he can prove income/pension to Immigration of 65000B a month , he should be able to get a retirement visa from the consulate in BNE.

No need to show 800,000B in the bank.

Am I correct?

TIA

[sting01]

Yes I have known people that have made $$ here

But yes you are bitter and angry ... acknowledge that fact and then decide if you are intersted in staying here. If you are then READ up on how you can get a non-imm-b easily. You have a Biz. If it is a legit biz and you take the paperwork as described on the main site at http://www.thaivisa.com/422.0.html

or

http://www.thaivisa.com/332.0.html

This has been a rough time for people with interests here ... but you CAN learn and make it work for you probably!

Well, made money here I have also know people who did and do it. But the question was : Did you know someone (I mean an individual, not a corporation) who after years of work here as 'shop owner' was able to get back the investment, sold his business and was able to move the whole (himself, his familly and his money) safely without headhache. For that I do not have exemple.

No I am not angry, not at all. Thailand was my first stay in asia, having 15 years of experience of africa, I can tell the difference. Thailand is way better than almost all western african countries.

But I am scare/affraid, one day I will not be able to come back in Bkk and will have to be stuck in Polpet.Because I am a small player, I do not generate huge income, nor am able to generate more income. So I will never fit the standart of the 'good investor' who put some millions of bath in the bank, support a familly (with the 3rd meaning of this word, mean distant aunts , cousins ....), nor I am ready to forget to my own culture to start to turn in circle while moving my hands just to make the local laught (being not a thai , it's obvious I can only be like an monkey when I try to imitate then dancing)

But I am not bitter , the person who share my life is thai, and I never been happpy like that before. And I know I am happy because her culture, her religion, becaus she is thai.not Bitter , but just I do not want to be awaken one morning as a criminal. Because that is how I feel. I am guilty to not be highso, I am guilty to prefer simple life (50k or 60k seems to me more than okie to have a correctlife in Bkk). I went here not to change thailand for good, I went here because one person and because the fact to live in a developping country allowed me to compete against indian coders. If it became difficult for me to have a professinal life, or to have uncertain (uncertinity is a huge factor of stress) so I simply prefer to go. As stated Thailand will NOT collapse without me, maybe Thailand will be better (if a 500 M investor take my place I suppose Thailand will be better). But I am moving also because I think I will be better.

About WP, I think you do not understand, I strictly do not qualify anymore for a WP. I did qualify in 2002, but with the 60K of salary I simply do not qualify (60K is my max earning for the last 3 years). So rather than finish in jail, or be blocked on the border, I will go where I can open simply and easily , without huge investment a new comp, and I will do so ASAP, because if I DO LIVE the country without arresting, I will still have a bank acount, my company will still exist .... and maybe in 10 years I will be able to be back.

[Martin]

The big impacts of this may be that it plays well in the short-term and the long term.

In the short-term, it is music to the ears of Thai voters, who, for many reasons, don't like Western 'sexpats'.

In the long-term (say, fifteen years) it give a message now to Western and Asian middle-class couples, aged 45 to 50 now, that (having got rid of the sleaze) Thailand is going to be a much nicer place to go for holidays, and to retire to.

That is good for Thailand, as such couples bring 'social capital', as well as 'monetary capital' to the country that they retire to.

In the middle-term, there may be a bit of lost business for breweries, bar girls, and border-run operators. But I don't think the Government will lose much sleep over that.

[preahko]

If they were one third of the way smart, they would simply let the falang fo to immig and pay a few hundred B to extend.

Instead of causing more traffic, more wasted fuel [so much for "energy policy"] and making the Burmese and Lao rich.

I guess we file this under "not smart enough."

On the contary, The Thais are being very smart. A poster mentioned about the advertising abroad, this is exactly the point. Thailand wants foreign people in thailand, or rather they want foreign investment....the average sex tourist who does a 30 day run isnt the sort of person that LOS wants.

On the other hand, a businessman who wants to legitimately set up a company that pays taxes and employs Thai personnel is welcome via a work permit.

I can see their point. Someone who has been in Thailand for 5 years on continious 30 day stamps does not bring money into the country and in all honesty is more than likely working illegaly....

The smaller issues is that of those people under 50 who have more than enough money to support themselves but are not ledgable for a retirement visa - This is where the Thai's should change the law.....but at the end of the day, its THEIR country.

oh yes, they're being sooooo smart. they want foreign investment. that's why they summarily cancelled investment visas (with three weeks warning). at this point cambodia is looking more stable than thailand for investment. and that's pretty sad.

preahko

[Thaiquila]

Please stop STEREOTYPING the incredible DIVERSITY of people doing 30 day stamp runs. There are as many reasons as people doing it. Sexpats? They fall into ALL visa classes.

[zeusbheld]

The big impacts of this may be that it plays well in the short-term and the long term.

In the short-term, it is music to the ears of Thai voters, who, for many reasons, don't like Western 'sexpats'.

In the long-term (say, fifteen years) it give a message now to Western and Asian middle-class couples, aged 45 to 50 now, that (having got rid of the sleaze) Thailand is going to be a much nicer place to go for holidays, and to retire to.

That is good for Thailand, as such couples bring 'social capital', as well as 'monetary capital' to the country that they retire to.

In the middle-term, there may be a bit of lost business for breweries, bar girls, and border-run operators. But I don't think the Government will lose much sleep over that.

i seriously doubt it will put a dent in the sex trade. sleazy hotels like the die nasty are full of sex tourists who don't stay long enough to make visa runs. expect that to continue.

you are horribly naive if you think it will 'get rid of the sleaze.' closing nana, soi cowboy and patpong *might* get rid of some of the sleaze, but significant portions of the sex tourist population would probably start frequenting the huge massage parlors and little karaoke joints where the thai people go. closing nana, soi cowboy and patpong might help with the APPEARANCE of sleaze, but prostitution is built into thai society, and there are tons of asian sex toursists as well. i doubt it will make a dent in the sleaze.

what it will affect is mid-range rentals. how much, remains to be seen, but bangkok real estate is hardly blooming, unless you count the post-97 blossoming of unfinished residential towers. it could potentially put a dent in real estate.

also, let's face it, we have NO IDEA how many farrangs make visa runs or what their numbers are compared to people with work permits etc. of those people, we have NO IDEA how many will find a way to get a visa and stay, under the new rules. if someone has any numbers please post 'em but i havent seen ANY, EVER.

if the thai economy goes down the toilet in the near future, it probably won't be from the people whom the new rule affects leaving. it'll probably be from big foreign money passing on thailand because of moves like the investigation of carrefour, lotus etc. and a general perception on their part that it's an unstable place to invest. so the economy may sour regardless of whether the visa runners stay.

[bkkresident]

Yet another newbie talking out of his arse. Man, where do they all come from? Out of the woodwork yet again.

Oh and btw, <deleted> are may worries anyway?

If you're referring to me, I can guarantee that I have been in Thailand longer than you NEWBIE.

Missed an 'n' though - read 'many worries'.

Anyway, my point is get your visa in order. Tourist visas are for tourists, not for those sort of hanging around 30 or 60 days each time for an indefinite period of time.

No loss to Thailand if they all move elsewhere IMO

[zeusbheld]

If they were one third of the way smart, they would simply let the falang fo to immig and pay a few hundred B to extend.

Instead of causing more traffic, more wasted fuel [so much for "energy policy"] and making the Burmese and Lao rich.

I guess we file this under "not smart enough."

On the contary, The Thais are being very smart. A poster mentioned about the advertising abroad, this is exactly the point. Thailand wants foreign people in thailand, or rather they want foreign investment....the average sex tourist who does a 30 day run isnt the sort of person that LOS wants.

On the other hand, a businessman who wants to legitimately set up a company that pays taxes and employs Thai personnel is welcome via a work permit.

I can see their point. Someone who has been in Thailand for 5 years on continious 30 day stamps does not bring money into the country and in all honesty is more than likely working illegaly....

The smaller issues is that of those people under 50 who have more than enough money to support themselves but are not ledgable for a retirement visa - This is where the Thai's should change the law.....but at the end of the day, its THEIR country.

oh yes, they're being sooooo smart. they want foreign investment. that's why they summarily cancelled investment visas (with three weeks warning). at this point cambodia is looking more stable than thailand for investment. and that's pretty sad.

preahko

don't let's forget the investigation of foreign big money like tesco and carrefour, and the coup rumors that have been circulating for a while.

thailand at this point is becoming less and less attractive to investors of all sizes, and TRT's genius protectionist moves aren't helping.

at the end of the day it is their country, they can do what they want, including run it into the ground.

[keekwai]

Quick question. Can you speak Thai? I can; and have been non-stop talking about this to Thais for the past few days, all of whom are horrified by the reality of this. If you cannot speak Thai and therefore have not actually been discussing matters with real Thais (that cannot speak English), then shut up. Enough said is the actual spelling

I speak fluent Russian and have been talking to the skanky Russian Ho's around Sukhumvit for several days ... and they are horrifeid!

PS .. Can we have an animated Smiley thats tossing itself too please?

Edited September 19, 2006 by keekwai

[bkkandrew]

Quick question. Can you speak Thai? I can; and have been non-stop talking about this to Thais for the past few days, all of whom are horrified by the reality of this. If you cannot speak Thai and therefore have not actually been discussing matters with real Thais (that cannot speak English), then shut up. Enough said is the actual spelling

I speak fluent Russian and have been talking to the skanky Russian Ho's around Sukhumvit for several days ... and they are horrifeid!

PS .. Can we have an animated Smiley thats tossing itself too please?

Nostrovia!!

[eddy-ham]

I think that many people here are of course looking at the situation from their point of view ie tourist visa, wp, ect.

The impact these people have on the Thai economy is small. I am not sure but I think Thailand has a pop of around 50 mill of which non Thais is ? and non Thais with WP is how many?

Ok the tourists bring in a lot of money but the majotity of them are famalies who just want a good vacation , these restrictions will not cause them any problems, infact a cleaner image of Thailand will increase this tourist input.

Non Thais in Thailand are a minority group, they do not have any power and those that are there illegally or for the ride have nothing really to complain about.

if you want to have your say in a country then you should register in that country,thats how it works in most countries!

[zeusbheld]

I think that many people here are of course looking at the situation from their point of view ie tourist visa, wp, ect.

The impact these people have on the Thai economy is small. I am not sure but I think Thailand has a pop of around 50 mill of which non Thais is ? and non Thais with WP is how many?

i think comparing total number of individuals, farrang vs thai, is irrelevant and utterly misleading. my understanding (according to thai friends, not to any rigorous study) is that most thais spend a lot less money than even khee nok backpackers.

useful numbers would be:

how much money do farrangs spend in thailand?

how much of that is spent by tourists?

how much of that spent by tourists is spent by visa runners who live here indefinitely (say, 6 months or more)?

Ok the tourists bring in a lot of money but the majotity of them are famalies who just want a good vacation , these restrictions will not cause them any problems, infact a cleaner image of Thailand will increase this tourist input.

do you have any numbers to back up your claim, or are you just making it up? it would be interesting to see real numbers on this stuff.

Non Thais in Thailand are a minority group, they do not have any power and those that are there illegally or for the ride have nothing really to complain about.

if you want to have your say in a country then you should register in that country,thats how it works in most countries!

true enough, but i have yet to hear of a visa in thailand that gives you the right to vote and participate in the poltical system.

also, do keep in mind, that the only people who were here illegally were the ones who overstayed. until october 1, 2006 it has NOT been against the rules to stay as long as you wanted on tourist visas or 30 day stamps. working illegally, is another question entirely, but i dare say a great many people will make more money managing their investments than working in thailand.

also it appears that all the pissing and moaning by farrangs (possibly even including this board) is being taken into account by the thai government. if there's one thing we farrangs do well, it's complain...

[zeusbheld]

I speak fluent Russian and have been talking to the skanky Russian Ho's around Sukhumvit for several days ... and they are horrifeid!

and the economic impact of sending these stank hos home will be staggering....

PS .. Can we have an animated Smiley thats tossing itself too please?

?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The big impacts of this may be that it plays well in the short-term and the long term.

In the short-term, it is music to the ears of Thai voters, who, for many reasons, don't like Western 'sexpats'.

In the long-term (say, fifteen years) it give a message now to Western and Asian middle-class couples, aged 45 to 50 now, that (having got rid of the sleaze) Thailand is going to be a much nicer place to go for holidays, and to retire to.

That is good for Thailand, as such couples bring 'social capital', as well as 'monetary capital' to the country that they retire to.

In the middle-term, there may be a bit of lost business for breweries, bar girls, and border-run operators. But I don't think the Government will lose much sleep over that.

The the short term? These new Visa regulations are not even making it into the Thai press. If it was a big play for Thai voters then wouldn't the govt see fit to try to get it printed up? Perhaps its more for the international community of countries.

[DrDweeb]

OK. I have trawled through 32 pages of posts. Wow, I really must be interested in this topic, right.

I am in the unfortunate position of being someone who uses Thailand as my staging point between Australia and Europe.

Between October 3 And December 10, I will enter Thailand (and Leave) 4 times. These dates are fixed, tickets purchased etc. I am a business tourist, spend lots of money and generally add to the well being of the economy. I like Thailand, and it is not uncommon for me to decide to go to Thailand for a week of R&R just because I can. The golfing is particulalry good in Th. I might add.

(A side bar, Thailand is beautiful. It´s Lika Mallorca, a fantastic place except for the tourist holes - and even those places have their purpose)

I spoke to the Thai Embassy in Copenhagen 1 hour ago (I am a non-Dane resident - those wishing to understand the apparent Xenophobia in DK recently highly publicised should be aware that it is nowhere near like the newsmongers have suggested). But I digress.

The Thai Embassy was completely unwilling to respond to ANY questions about a visa. Despite informing her of my fixed intention to pass through Thaialnd 4 times in the next 3 months (post October 1), and asking for specific advice on what visas are available the embassy officer (obviously a Thai, but spoke acceptable danish) provided ZERO information.

I asked for an email address to send a formal request and was informed that it would not be answered until after October 1, if at all. The email address I was given was false.

I have the impression that they are tired of people ringing them, so they just stop answering questions.

I have many friends who pass through Thailand multiple times per month, using it as a hub to Asia. Few of them have visas because they neither live nor work there - they just pass through regularly - just as I do.

As far as I can determine I (and they) am going to be negatively affected by all this.

I was going to buy a house and invest quite a bit of money in Thailand. The changes to the administration of the company laws killed the house idea and unless something changes radically and Toxin gets the boot - I will not be investing in a business either. Its just too <deleted> hard and way too dodgy now.

Its sad to watch.

So, What sort of visa should I get that will solve my travel plans problem ? I do not really want to be stranded at Suvarnnabhumi or get a red stamp in my new passport.

I would like to be able to stopover on a monthly basis on my Europe - Australia runs. This now seems somewhat difficult.

cheers

Dr. Dweeb

[zeusbheld]

seeing as this thread is speculating about the impact of hte new visa rules...

i cant help thinking the coup will have more of an impact on the economy. tanks can't be good for tourism.

maybe there's an upside, maybe sondhi will kill off the stupid shit like bars closing early and drinking age of 25.

oh btw drdweeb as it stood a few hours ago there was a news conference wherein the #2 guy in immigration said rather unequivocally it would be days not entries. it did seem to be a work in progress. what impact the coup will have, if any, is anyone's guess at this point i suppose.

[DrDweeb]

seeing as this thread is speculating about the impact of hte new visa rules...

i cant help thinking the coup will have more of an impact on the economy. tanks can't be good for tourism.

maybe there's an upside, maybe sondhi will kill off the stupid shit like bars closing early and drinking age of 25.

oh btw drdweeb as it stood a few hours ago there was a news conference wherein the #2 guy in immigration said rather unequivocally it would be days not entries. it did seem to be a work in progress. what impact the coup will have, if any, is anyone's guess at this point i suppose.

Yeah, the coup had not happenned (or at least I was unaware of it) when I posted.

Well, I will be there 6/10, so I hope it stays calm

Dweeb

[leongpc]

the recent bombing in hatyai and now the coup....these are dark days in bangkok. the new ruling might not even take off as hordes of foreigners will be running out of the country.

[Pattaya-Partyman]

The military (all soldiers with yellow flags - the tanks with yellow flags) kick Thaksin out.

A lucky day for Thailand. Why even one foreigner should leave the country ?

Edited September 20, 2006 by sbk

[leongpc]

actually i'm interested in seeing how the new ruling will be implemented along the border crossing of malaysia/thailand. malaysians form the largest group of visitors into thailand. both nationals cross over without using passport on a daily basis. isn't this a gross discrimination for other nationals? i think they should voice this out.

[tartempion]

So, What sort of visa should I get that will solve my travel plans problem ? I do not really want to be stranded at Suvarnnabhumi or get a red stamp in my new passport.

I would like to be able to stopover on a monthly basis on my Europe - Australia runs. This now seems somewhat difficult.

cheers

Dr. Dweeb

Simple, get yourself a multiple entries tourist visa, when used you still can have a few 30days stamps.

I don't see where's the problem nor all the exitement except for the back-to-back 30 days stampers who should find other ways to remain legally in this country.

[zeusbheld]

The military (all soldiers with yellow flags - the tanks with yellow flags) kick Thaksin out.

A lucky day for Thailand. Why even one foreigner should leave the country ?

hard to say what impact it will have.

hopefully the absurd drinking age (25) will fall by the wayside, we'll be able to buy a case of beer in the afternoon again, and bars and clubs can some day stay open until a normal hour (even though i dont go out much the early closings cause me pain--i'm from new york, where the legal bars don't close until 4am. this of course is all idle speculation.

i live right next to the taksin bridge (taksin not thaksin/toxin). one thing is for sure--i've never seen so little traffic at 8 am in on the bridge, including holidays.

they are still working on the BTS extension though, as if nothing happened.

an announcement just came on TV that regular programming will resume. news channels, cnn, bbc, etc, are all still off.

i'm hoping government offices open in the next couple days, i need to extend my tourist visa, my 60 days ends in 3 days... worst case, a sudden flight to somehwere. airport is working normally apparently so i'd assume i could get back in. we shall see.

[Tolley]

I genuinely believe that despite any law changes commonsense will prevail and if you have enough money you will always be able to stay in LOS regardless of your visa status.

I am like a lot of people who come in for short periods of time but may make multiple visits over a few months.

I didn't know that you could get a multi exit visa on a thirty day VOA but if this is possible that could suit.

Those people who think that ridding Thailand of people who have been using the VOA on arrival as a permanent visa is going to shift the dregs out of Thailand need to think again.

It really doesn't take too much time effort or money to get another type of visa be it a business, marriage, retirement or work visa if you really do want to stay in LOS. And for those that don't want to do this they will just let their visas expire and hope that they don't get caught and if they do get caught they can pay their way out. It is all a bit ho hum ho hum.

And for those self righteous sanctimonious posters who think they are better becasue they are not on VOA visas gimme a break.

Thailand is the land of scams and dodgy dealings. Changing the way VOA visas are issuesdwill have no impact on what sort of farangs that come and stay in thailand and further will have no effect on the institutionalised corruption that is a hallmark of the Thai way of doing business. In fact it will probably if indeed goes ahead as mooted just offer more opportunities for corruption and a whole new sway of dodgy entrepreneurs and operators.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I genuinely believe that despite any law changes commonsense will prevail and if you have enough money you will always be able to stay in LOS regardless of your visa status.

I am like a lot of people who come in for short periods of time but may make multiple visits over a few months.

I didn't know that you could get a multi exit visa on a thirty day VOA but if this is possible that could suit.

Those people who think that ridding Thailand of people who have been using the VOA on arrival as a permanent visa is going to shift the dregs out of Thailand need to think again.

It really doesn't take too much time effort or money to get another type of visa be it a business, marriage, retirement or work visa if you really do want to stay in LOS. And for those that don't want to do this they will just let their visas expire and hope that they don't get caught and if they do get caught they can pay their way out. It is all a bit ho hum ho hum.

And for those self righteous sanctimonious posters who think they are better becasue they are not on VOA visas gimme a break.

Thailand is the land of scams and dodgy dealings. Changing the way VOA visas are issuesdwill have no impact on what sort of farangs that come and stay in thailand and further will have no effect on the institutionalised corruption that is a hallmark of the Thai way of doing business. In fact it will probably if indeed goes ahead as mooted just offer more opportunities for corruption and a whole new sway of dodgy entrepreneurs and operators.

and the big question is now will a new government want to implement a change instituted by the Thaksin govt. Might just go back to business as usual for a while.

[leongpc]

most likely the new ruling will not be implemented but will be temporary shelved. the new interim government (yet to be announced) will have too many things on their hands to bother with. they wouldn't want to have more problems arising at all points of entry when confusion sets in over the ruling.

[zeusbheld]

most likely the new ruling will not be implemented but will be temporary shelved. the new interim government (yet to be announced) will have too many things on their hands to bother with. they wouldn't want to have more problems arising at all points of entry when confusion sets in over the ruling.

makes sense but it depends on how much has been communicated through the department. i'd imagine most immigration officers will continue with whatever plan they were on as of yesterday when they went home from work until they hear otherwise.

at any rate, i'd expect no changes we haven't already heard about for a while.

[thaihome]

most likely the new ruling will not be implemented but will be temporary shelved. the new interim government (yet to be announced) will have too many things on their hands to bother with. they wouldn't want to have more problems arising at all points of entry when confusion sets in over the ruling.

makes sense but it depends on how much has been communicated through the department. i'd imagine most immigration officers will continue with whatever plan they were on as of yesterday when they went home from work until they hear otherwise.

at any rate, i'd expect no changes we haven't already heard about for a while.

In the past, these types of coups had little effect on the every day running of the gov. Just one of the little quirks of the Thai style coups.

By the way, Immigration HQ on Suan Plu is closed with about 6 soldiers out front.

TH

[leongpc]

from the grapevine...pls don't take this as gospel truth. my source working in travel agency in bangkok said the ruling might be deferred to april next year.

[keekwai]

In the past, these types of coups had little effect on the every day running of the gov. Just one of the little quirks of the Thai style coups.

Well there is one great effect .. the evil Toxin is finished! ... yay!

And now with a nod and a wink to "The Wizard of Oz" ... everyone sing together .. "Ding Dong the witch is dead .. the wicked witch is dead ! "

[bonsaimax]

In the past, these types of coups had little effect on the every day running of the gov. Just one of the little quirks of the Thai style coups.

By the way, Immigration HQ on Suan Plu is closed with about 6 soldiers out front.

TH

The news says regular working day tomorrow. Will Immigration at Suan Plu be open tomorrow then?