Fasting mimicking diet ... how do you actually do it?

[Jingthing]

Hot news about this new concept for health promotion mostly but also weight loss:

Now scientists say they've developed a five-day, once-a-month diet that mimics fasting -- and is safe.

In the study, which was published in the journal Cell Metabolism and funded by the National Institute on Aging, participants who intermittently fasted for three months had reduced risk factors for an amazing range of issues: aging, cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease. While the number of study participants was small -- only 19 who tried the diet -- the results are so promising that the University of Southern California researcher who helped develop the regimen is already talking about trying to get approval from the Food and Drug Administration so that it can be recommended for patients.

...

For 25 days out of the month, dieters can eat as they normally would -- the good, bad and in-between. Then for day one of the diet, they would eat 1,090 calories: 10 percent protein, 56 percent fat and 34 percent carbohydrates. For days two through five, 725 calories: 9 percent protein, 44 percent fat, 47 percent carbohydrates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/06/22/heres-how-a-five-day-diet-that-mimics-fasting-may-reboot-the-body-and-reduce-cancer-risk/

The details of the five days a month semi-fast are technical and specific.

I wouldn't know how to actually meet those numbers in real life.

Does anyone know a source of information for actual specific food plan for those 5 days?

Edited June 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[h90]

A few days ago I thought that the Muslim Ramadan seems to be an excellent idea.

I mean the way it is intended, not the way it is often done, where people fill their stomach till they almost explode in the evening.

For 1 month per year: don't eat during the day and have a small light meal in the evening.

Christians have something similar but they can't see no to a nice beer and a beaver

This here 5 days a month is similar.....

[Jingthing]

For 25 days out of the month, dieters can eat as they normally would -- the good, bad and in-between. Then for day one of the diet, they would eat 1,090 calories: 10 percent protein, 56 percent fat and 34 percent carbohydrates. For days two through five, 725 calories: 9 percent protein, 44 percent fat, 47 percent carbohydrates

I don't think the people behind the study are promoting this for people to try at home without medical supervision, but as they say the health benefit results are so dramatic, I am interested in trying it.

I am very happy with my "normal" diet and also think I could fairly easily meet severe calorie restrictions for five days a month.

But the problem I see is how SPECIFIC they are with food content for their program. You'd have to be a nutritionist to know exactly what to eat.

They do mention vegetable soup, chamomile tea, and kale chips as big on this. Easy enough except for the kale chips in Thailand.

So is anyone a nutritionist here who could interpret their data into a very specific meal plan for the five days using easy to obtain foods in Thailand?

Because it's really beyond me to do that.

Yes I could follow the basic idea ... cut down calories a lot for five days and eat lots of veg and no carb. But beyond that, they were so very specific.

As they are so specific, down to specifying the daily fat content percentage, it seems to me if you can't follow their specific plan, you aren't really testing that plan. Sure, people could "wing it" and make a lot of guesses and perhaps that would be beneficial, but it seems preferable to be able to really follow it.

Another thing, in general I am against severe calorie restricted diets for the long term as you then will get a metabolism RESET, setting yourself up for a blowback failure later as people can't SUSTAIN starvation levels forever. But this thing with a semi-fast for only 5 days a month, it seems to me not long enough for a metabolism reset to occur.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[h90]

For 25 days out of the month, dieters can eat as they normally would -- the good, bad and in-between. Then for day one of the diet, they would eat 1,090 calories: 10 percent protein, 56 percent fat and 34 percent carbohydrates. For days two through five, 725 calories: 9 percent protein, 44 percent fat, 47 percent carbohydrates

I don't think the people behind the study are promoting this for people to try at home without medical supervision, but as they say the health benefit results are so dramatic, I am interested in trying it.

I am very happy with my "normal" diet and also think I could fairly easily meet severe calorie restrictions for five days a month.

But the problem I see is how SPECIFIC they are with food content for their program. You'd have to be a nutritionist to know exactly what to eat.

They do mention vegetable soup, chamomile tea, and kale chips as big on this. Easy enough except for the kale chips in Thailand.

So is anyone a nutritionist here who could interpret their data into a very specific meal plan for the five days using easy to obtain foods in Thailand?

Because it's really beyond me to do that.

Yes I could follow the basic idea ... cut down calories a lot for five days and eat lots of veg and no carb. But beyond that, they were so very specific.

As they are so specific, down to specifying the daily fat content percentage, it seems to me if you can't follow their specific plan, you aren't really testing that plan. Sure, people could "wing it" and make a lot of guesses and perhaps that would be beneficial, but it seems preferable to be able to really follow it.

Another thing, in general I am against severe calorie restricted diets for the long term as you then will get a metabolism RESET, setting yourself up for a blowback failure later as people can't SUSTAIN starvation levels forever. But this thing with a semi-fast for only 5 days a month, it seems to me not long enough for a metabolism reset to occur.

medical supervision for eating less (725 kcal?) for 3 days.

Come on......

We don't need a doc for that....even if you don't eat anything for 3 days you won't have any problems as long as you drink some liquid.

725 kcal that is a diet where you loose 1.5 kg or less per week nothing spectacular.

[Jingthing]

I was hoping there would be more (sincere) interest in this.

I'm really interested in trying it.

It would be easier to just not eat at all for the five days than to get their exact calorie and contents stats right without being part of a study where they just give you the stuff or alternatively with a the help of a good nutritionist.

In case I haven't been clear enough, for me, this is the issue.

If I wanted to try this in real life, how exactly would I replicate the specs they have tested:

For 25 days out of the month, dieters can eat as they normally would -- the good, bad and in-between. Then for day one of the diet, they would eat 1,090 calories: 10 percent protein, 56 percent fat and 34 percent carbohydrates. For days two through five, 725 calories: 9 percent protein, 44 percent fat, 47 percent carbohydrates.

Are there sophisticated websites available where I can punch in ingredients and get exact data for calories and content.

For example, one medium carrot.

2 ounces of lean chicken.

I can see making a big batch of vegetable soup for the five days, but how would I know how many calories and the content of it to meet the specs?

Yes I realize getting them exact isn't realistic but but close enough would be better than just guessing.

[robblok]

JT there are plenty of websites that give you that data. I told you I counted calories and there are applications for your phone that help. I find it strange that you haven't found those websites.

http://www.caloriecount.com/

I do echo h90 his remarks that going for a few days to 725 is not that extreme and your remark about medical supervision is a bit off.

Have you ever seen shows like the Island or the raft ? The people there don't have any food and in the raft live for 5 days on what they can catch. On the island it was similar and I doubt they would make shows like that if they were unsafe. We know there is a big claim culture in the USA so why risk it.

(on a side not I loved those shows though what they ate would drive me crazy but when real hunger sets in you do what you have to do)

[Jingthing]

JT there are plenty of websites that give you that data. I told you I counted calories and there are applications for your phone that help. I find it strange that you haven't found those websites.

http://www.caloriecount.com/

I do echo h90 his remarks that going for a few days to 725 is not that extreme and your remark about medical supervision is a bit off.

Have you ever seen shows like the Island or the raft ? The people there don't have any food and in the raft live for 5 days on what they can catch. On the island it was similar and I doubt they would make shows like that if they were unsafe. We know there is a big claim culture in the USA so why risk it.

(on a side not I loved those shows though what they ate would drive me crazy but when real hunger sets in you do what you have to do)

Please read what I post more carefully. I never said medical supervision was needed. I was DIRECTLY referring to the link and the intention of the researchers. Check out the context of what I said and MAYBE you will understand what I actually said. OK? I find it extremely annoying these games where I am supposed to argue for positions that I do not have.

You are another who is not getting this.

These very serious scientific researchers tested something very specific.

They did not test a 5 day fast. They tested a very technically specific semi-fast.

I know how to fast.

I do NOT know how to closely replicate the TESTED plan from these scientists.

Note again, these scientists are suggesting medical supervision.

NOT ME!

Sure, in an ideal world we'd all have medical supervision to inspect all our bowel movements ... but in real life, people try out things without that. Including me of course, probably a lot more than others.

On calorie counting and content sites, I haven't looked myself. That is why I ASKED if others had good suggestions because I thought maybe people here might know the best ones. That was innocent, yes? Instead you get snarky calling me strange. Why do you insist on being so hostile to me about things like this?

Now back to the topic. I haven't been into calorie counting since I was a kid. It is so much work. I generally don't believe in it. But to try to attempt to copy this scientifically tested semi-fast, it's either do a large amount of work to develop dishes that meet the specs. That seems really hard to me. I wish there was a published plan I could just follow to meet their specs.

Not sure yet whether I will try to design my own program yet. But if it was easier to replicate the program, I would try it, because it really seems promising to me. Frankly more about the potential health benefits than the weight loss aspect.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Ok JT, I misunderstood

I hope you have use for the link i send, there is an app for your phone with a database of products.

You misunderstood me, I did not call you strange.. i found it strange that you could not find it. Different thing.

Edited June 24, 2015 by robblok

[Orac]

Maybe I am just a sceptic but the whole thing seems to be a bit obvious unless I am missing something.

The study was only for 19 people and was done over 3 months. Since you are eating less than you normally would for 5 days of each month then clearly there should be some weight loss over that period.

The claim that it "reduces risk factors for an amazing range of issues" is again obvious as it can be said that a lot of these issues, particularly cardiovascular disease and diabetes have strong correlations with being overweight so any weight loss is going to reduce these risk factors. As for reducing the risk factors for aging, I am wary of any claims that can alter time.

Not to say there is no benefit to this diet but it needs the be measured over a longer period with more participants and them be benchmarked against other methods of diet/lifestyle change.

[Jingthing]

Indeed. The scientists are suggesting more studies and are NOT yet suggesting this for the general public. Probably a reason they haven't released a specific diet plan to meet their specs.

But I'm kind of an experimental cowboy and am interested in trying it before all that.

You say it's obvious but I think you're wrong.

I think there is something potentially revolutionary in this study.

Here is why.
There is good evidence that long term underfeeders help with longevity and anti-aging markers.

But this is kind of a twist to that.

This is suggesting that MAYBE this limited 5 days a month underfeeding helps with those things as well, perhaps, A LOT, without the need to underfeed everyday for life.

Is that clearer now?

Now REALISTICALLY even though there is already really good evidence that underfeeding for life is beneficial, only a small percentage of people will actually do that even if the knew it might add 20 good quality years to the lives!

But a 5 day semi-fast, if it has some similar benefits, that is really something a large percentage of people COULD do. (If they knew exactly what to eat for the semi-fast, my current issue with this.)

Edited June 24, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Ok JT, I misunderstood

I hope you have use for the link i send, there is an app for your phone with a database of products.

You misunderstood me, I did not call you strange.. i found it strange that you could not find it. Different thing.

OK. fine.

As far as replicating their diet plan I suppose I could pay a nutritionist to design a plan like that for me.

Any suggestions in Pattaya?

[h90]

JT there are plenty of websites that give you that data. I told you I counted calories and there are applications for your phone that help. I find it strange that you haven't found those websites.

http://www.caloriecount.com/

I do echo h90 his remarks that going for a few days to 725 is not that extreme and your remark about medical supervision is a bit off.

Have you ever seen shows like the Island or the raft ? The people there don't have any food and in the raft live for 5 days on what they can catch. On the island it was similar and I doubt they would make shows like that if they were unsafe. We know there is a big claim culture in the USA so why risk it.

(on a side not I loved those shows though what they ate would drive me crazy but when real hunger sets in you do what you have to do)

Please read what I post more carefully. I never said medical supervision was needed. I was DIRECTLY referring to the link and the intention of the researchers. Check out the context of what I said and MAYBE you will understand what I actually said. OK? I find it extremely annoying these games where I am supposed to argue for positions that I do not have.

You are another who is not getting this.

These very serious scientific researchers tested something very specific.

They did not test a 5 day fast. They tested a very technically specific semi-fast.

I know how to fast.

I do NOT know how to closely replicate the TESTED plan from these scientists.

Note again, these scientists are suggesting medical supervision.

NOT ME!

Sure, in an ideal world we'd all have medical supervision to inspect all our bowel movements ... but in real life, people try out things without that. Including me of course, probably a lot more than others.

On calorie counting and content sites, I haven't looked myself. That is why I ASKED if others had good suggestions because I thought maybe people here might know the best ones. That was innocent, yes? Instead you get snarky calling me strange. Why do you insist on being so hostile to me about things like this?

Now back to the topic. I haven't been into calorie counting since I was a kid. It is so much work. I generally don't believe in it. But to try to attempt to copy this scientifically tested semi-fast, it's either do a large amount of work to develop dishes that meet the specs. That seems really hard to me. I wish there was a published plan I could just follow to meet their specs.

Not sure yet whether I will try to design my own program yet. But if it was easier to replicate the program, I would try it, because it really seems promising to me. Frankly more about the potential health benefits than the weight loss aspect.

"These very serious scientific researchers tested something very specific."

have 19 people tested for 3 month, with a total of 3*5=15 days eating less but the other days eating normal.

When eating less they lost weight: An earthquake is going thru the scientific community...who would have thought that eating less results into loosing weight?

I am grateful that they figured that out.

If I would be one of these scientific researchers I would be also very serious if I publish something like that and have to justify the funds it cost.

[robblok]

JT,

Please take a look at the link and the app i send you. It does more as counting calories, it counts proteins / fats and carbohydrates too. So you could custom design your own plan. It just takes a bit of playing around it really is not as hard as it looks. I am pretty sure your smart enough to do it.

[Jingthing]

JT,

Please take a look at the link and the app i send you. It does more as counting calories, it counts proteins / fats and carbohydrates too. So you could custom design your own plan. It just takes a bit of playing around it really is not as hard as it looks. I am pretty sure your smart enough to do it.

Maybe I am. Maybe I'm not. It's certainly not my area of expertise.

-----

Please note that I have the user h90 on ignore for a very long time now. For obvious reasons. He knows that but posting this to remind others why I never respond to any of his posts.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Jingthing

[Orac]

Having a quick shufti round the interweb I came across these three BBC articles from someone who was actually on the trial which gives a more human look at it rather than the technical gubbins in the report.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25498742

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25498743

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25549805

Interestingly it says they were going to look at how effective it would be doing the fasting for 5 out of 60 days.

[Jingthing]

Back to this technical issue.

Take a carrot.

I can see the calories and carb content.

But I might be eating 40 ingredients in a day in different portions.

It seems technically quite complex to actually meet the calorie AND content specs of the study (or really any calorie or content specs).

Just counting calories is tedious but pretty easy. I have done that before.

But I guess what I need now (short of paying an expert which I am open to) is a much more sophisticated software program that can input many many foods of many many portions and coming up with daily totals ... to attempt to come close to the specs.

Surely others can see this is complicated?

[robblok]

JT,

Please take a look at the link and the app i send you. It does more as counting calories, it counts proteins / fats and carbohydrates too. So you could custom design your own plan. It just takes a bit of playing around it really is not as hard as it looks. I am pretty sure your smart enough to do it.

Maybe I am. Maybe I'm not. It's certainly not my area of expertise.

-----

Please note that I have the user h90 on ignore for a very long time now. For obvious reasons. He knows that but posting this to remind others why I never respond to any of his posts.

JT,

What I mean is that you put int he food and it does the rest, so you can modify weights and food sources and then get to the relevant value's. If you do it yourself you can use foods that are available to you and foods that you like. The app is real easy to use just give it a go it certainly is not that hard.

I really can't help you with a nutritionist.

[Orac]

Back to this technical issue.

Take a carrot.

I can see the calories and carb content.

But I might be eating 40 ingredients in a day in different portions.

It seems technically quite complex to actually meet the calorie AND content specs of the study (or really any calorie or content specs).

Just counting calories is tedious but pretty easy. I have done that before.

But I guess what I need now (short of paying an expert which I am open to) is a much more sophisticated software program that can input many many foods of many many portions and coming up with daily totals ... to attempt to come close to the specs.

Surely others can see this is complicated?

Just to be sceptical again though, such exacting requirements would be much easier to hit by using a formulae drink of some sort specifically made for the purpose by one of the health supplement/food replacement companies such as , L-Nutra, who are funding this research. Edited June 24, 2015 by Orac

[DDbkh]

The person who started this has explicitly stated that they have not completed there testing on humans. There is no recommended official diet yet. In UK the Daily Telegraph reported on this 3 days in a row but it's still experimental.

[Jingthing]

Yes of course there are commercial possibilities with this concept.

That doesn't necessarily mean the findings are worthless though.

I respect your skepticism though. That is healthy and I have never said their initial findings are the last word on this.

But I'm still interested in trying it but still doubt my ability to replicate their specs (mostly about content) in real life.

Really the gist of what I am about here is seeking technical help to replicate their specs. It certainly doesn't sound dangerous and as they have tested those specs, I'd rather copy them than just doing anything by chance probably not even close.

[Jingthing]

The person who started this has explicitly stated that they have not completed there testing on humans. There is no recommended official diet yet. In UK the Daily Telegraph reported on this 3 days in a row but it's still experimental.

I don't doubt any of that.

I have been VERY CLEAR. I have never suggested that his has been recommended for the general public or that it is anything other than early stage research on an interesting concept.

But sorry, it doesn't sound very risky to me, and those early findings are exciting. so if I could I would be interested in experimenting on myself.

Not recommending this to anyone else.

[Orac]

Yes of course there are commercial possibilities with this concept.

That doesn't necessarily mean the findings are worthless though.

I respect your skepticism though. That is healthy and I have never said their initial findings are the last word on this.

But I'm still interested in trying it but still doubt my ability to replicate their specs (mostly about content) in real life.

Really the gist of what I am about here is seeking technical help to replicate their specs. It certainly doesn't sound dangerous and as they have tested those specs, I'd rather copy them than just doing anything by chance probably not even close.

From the BBC article I linked to above:

"Longo stresses that the experimental food could not be made in your kitchen."

[Jingthing]

Yes of course there are commercial possibilities with this concept.

That doesn't necessarily mean the findings are worthless though.

I respect your skepticism though. That is healthy and I have never said their initial findings are the last word on this.

But I'm still interested in trying it but still doubt my ability to replicate their specs (mostly about content) in real life.

Really the gist of what I am about here is seeking technical help to replicate their specs. It certainly doesn't sound dangerous and as they have tested those specs, I'd rather copy them than just doing anything by chance probably not even close.

From the BBC article I linked to above:

"Longo stresses that the experimental food could not be made in your kitchen."

Aha.

Why not?

If it's about the specs, calories and content, why not possible?

Very very hard I think which is why I posted here but they don't say anything about magic foods. It's normal foods.

I get the commercial aspect. Maybe there are billions of dollars in this idea selling packaged liquid 5 day diets to the masses.

But maybe I can't do it, but why couldn't a skilled nutritionist just see those specs and general guidelines about getting carbs from vegetable and create a specific recipe and menu plan for the 5 days?

Edited June 24, 2015 by Jingthing

[Orac]

Yes of course there are commercial possibilities with this concept.

That doesn't necessarily mean the findings are worthless though.

I respect your skepticism though. That is healthy and I have never said their initial findings are the last word on this.

But I'm still interested in trying it but still doubt my ability to replicate their specs (mostly about content) in real life.

Really the gist of what I am about here is seeking technical help to replicate their specs. It certainly doesn't sound dangerous and as they have tested those specs, I'd rather copy them than just doing anything by chance probably not even close.

From the BBC article I linked to above:

"Longo stresses that the experimental food could not be made in your kitchen."

Aha.

Why not?

If it's about the specs, calories and content, why not possible?

Very very hard I think which is why I posted here but they don't say anything about magic foods. It's normal foods.

I get the commercial aspect. Maybe there are billions of dollars in this idea selling packaged liquid 5 day diets to the masses.

But maybe I can't do it, but why couldn't a skilled nutritionist just see those specs and general guidelines about getting carbs from vegetable and create a specific recipe and menu plan for the 5 days?

Again from the bbc article:

"The low-calorie period includes small amounts of food to minimise the negative effects of a total fast. Designed by scientists to provide a minimum level of essential vitamins and minerals, the diet consists of:

vegetable-based soups

energy bars

energy drinks

dried kale snacks

chamomile tea"

The top three are the staple products of the diet food industry particularly as it goes on to mention that there were no choices of flavours.

[Jingthing]

I see.

That makes sense that you'd want to get nutrition during the semi-fast period.

[DDbkh]

The simplest lifestyle diet I have heard of is the one described in the book the Four Hour Body. It's basically a Paleo diet with one day a week binge. A friend tried this after a medical at Bumrungrad, where they gave him loads of pills, which he junked. The following year they had to re-test him because they didn't believe their own test results.

[h90]

The simplest lifestyle diet I have heard of is the one described in the book the Four Hour Body. It's basically a Paleo diet with one day a week binge. A friend tried this after a medical at Bumrungrad, where they gave him loads of pills, which he junked. The following year they had to re-test him because they didn't believe their own test results.

I am not sure if this one day per week binge helps to reset the body or if it is just psychological to make it more easy to sustain.

[Jingthing]

The simplest lifestyle diet I have heard of is the one described in the book the Four Hour Body. It's basically a Paleo diet with one day a week binge. A friend tried this after a medical at Bumrungrad, where they gave him loads of pills, which he junked. The following year they had to re-test him because they didn't believe their own test results.

Interesting.

However, this topic is about eating normally for most of the month with a modified fast for five days.

No paleo.

No bingeing .

Opposite of bingeing actually.

It's starting to all feel rather academic to me though. I am not optimistic that I can replicate the semi-fasting program in the study.

[Tolley]

I have an alternative idea.

Do a three day juice fast every month.

I really believe this would sort out lots of issues regardless of what you ate for the rest of the month.

[Jingthing]

I have an alternative idea.

Do a three day juice fast every month.

I really believe this would sort out lots of issues regardless of what you ate for the rest of the month.

Can you point to any kind of study regarding that suggestion?