Is The 1st Oct. Going To Be Retro-active Or Not?

[oz457]

Can someone tell me starting from Oct. 1 if this is going to be retro-active or not?

I was reading they will look back 6 months and look at the number of stamps during the last 6 monts? If so, will they start counting from the 1st of October, or on the 1st of October will they start counting from the 1st of April 2006?

Second question, imagine, in the latter case, you have one stamp in on March 23 and out on April 5. Will this 'out" stamp be counted, or is only "in" stamp that counts?

Sunbelt Asia or someone, could you clarify?????

Thanks.

[oz457]

Can someone tell me starting from Oct. 1 if this is going to be retro-active or not?

I was reading they will look back 6 months and look at the number of stamps during the last 6 monts? If so, will they start counting from the 1st of October, or on the 1st of October will they start counting from the 1st of April 2006?

Second question, imagine, in the latter case, you have one stamp in on March 23 and out on April 5. Will this 'out" stamp be counted, or is only "in" stamp that counts?

Sunbelt Asia or someone, could you clarify?????

Thanks.

Anybody who can answer this question?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Can someone tell me starting from Oct. 1 if this is going to be retro-active or not?

I was reading they will look back 6 months and look at the number of stamps during the last 6 monts? If so, will they start counting from the 1st of October, or on the 1st of October will they start counting from the 1st of April 2006?

Second question, imagine, in the latter case, you have one stamp in on March 23 and out on April 5. Will this 'out" stamp be counted, or is only "in" stamp that counts?

Sunbelt Asia or someone, could you clarify?????

Thanks.

Anybody who can answer this question?

Our understanding now, people from these countries will start with zero Tourist Visa Exemption entries on Oct 1st, 2006 Even if you enter Thailand on Sept 30th, 2006 and need to leave on Oct 29th, 2006. This does not count.

Example: You have 48 thirty day Tourist Visa Exemption entry stamps in your passport. On Oct 1st you arrive in Thailand, you only have zero stamps in their eyes at that point. You leave the Immigration arrival check point desk and now have one thirty day stamp and have a quota of two more Tourist Visa Exemption thirty day stamps left in the next six months.

Once you have used up your quota, you go to a Thai Embassy/Consulate and get a visa before you arrive in Thailand.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[elfe]

thanks sunbelt for this important, longawaited info. couldn't have imagined either that all these of the new rules unaware visarunners will be not permitted back into thailand after oct 1 and be stranded at the borders! what a fiasco this would be... so everyone of them hast at least 3 more months time to adjust and get their visa situation sorted

[poorfarang]

Is this 100% confirmed sunbelt?

I have to do a visa run on Sept 28th, so according to what you just said on sep 28 when they issue me a 30 day VOA until oct 27 or whatever, that wont even count as one stamp. Then I will have 3 VOA visas avaialable to use.

So I dont have to worry about getting a 'real' visa for a few months yet?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Is this 100% confirmed sunbelt?

I have to do a visa run on Sept 28th, so according to what you just said on sep 28 when they issue me a 30 day VOA until oct 27 or whatever, that wont even count as one stamp. Then I will have 3 VOA visas avaialable to use.

So I dont have to worry about getting a 'real' visa for a few months yet?

Nothing in writing. But we have checked this out many times and this is the common view now. The example is one that has been explained to us.

However, understand the Immigration officer still has the discretion, no matter what the rules say that you should still be allowed in Thailand.

Oct 1st will tell more about about cases of the Immigration discretion, being heavy-handed or treating everyone the same.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Whitey]

I don't like to spread unfounded rumors, but the immi officers at the border are the one who make the decision. Let me just say, there is a supervisor at least one border post who is saying that when they decide to let you enter or not on a 30 day permit, it will be based on how much time you have been in Thailand in the last 6 months, whether that is on 30 day permits or tourist visas, it doesn't matter. This come directly from the mouth of a supervisor at a popular southern port of entry.

[Totster]

I don't like to spread unfounded rumors, but the immi officers at the border are the one who make the decision. Let me just say, there is a supervisor at least one border post who is saying that when they decide to let you enter or not on a 30 day permit, it will be based on how much time you have been in Thailand in the last 6 months, whether that is on 30 day permits or tourist visas, it doesn't matter. This come directly from the mouth of a supervisor at a popular southern port of entry.

...but you did anyway !

totster

[Sunbelt Asia]

I don't like to spread unfounded rumors, but the immi officers at the border are the one who make the decision. Let me just say, there is a supervisor at least one border post who is saying that when they decide to let you enter or not on a 30 day permit, it will be based on how much time you have been in Thailand in the last 6 months, whether that is on 30 day permits or tourist visas, it doesn't matter. This come directly from the mouth of a supervisor at a popular southern port of entry.

This is the bottomline, even when the head Immigration guy says it starts Oct 1st. The officer can use their discretion. Just like certain Embassys/ Consulates are known to be more liberal and others stricter. This may be the case at certain Immigration checkpoints., some will be known more smoother than others because they interpret the law different.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[threelegcowboy]

The RED STAMP is here now!

I posted several days ago about a red stamp issued to a friend and now I hear of another. This is a preview of what is about to happen. They are not going to strand anybody at the airport or the boarder with too many 30 day stamps.

My prediction on available knowledge is:

Oct 1 immigration at all entrys will look into incomming passports and make a quick decision about how many stamps the holder has. When they are over the limit they will be given a RED STAMP put in a profound spot (like the first page). This RED STAMP says " Upon exiting Thailand you MAY NOT be permitted to reenter"

So this person would have a month and maybe an extension to go pack his bags or try to get another type of Visa.

HOPE THIS HELPS THOSE IN NEED.

LLL

[elfe]

This RED STAMP says " Upon exiting Thailand you MAY NOT be permitted to reenter"

but hopefully be able to enter again with a proper visa? and not only 6 months later?

I think all we can do so far is to wait and see.... and each case might be handled different again at different emabssies, consulates etc...

[mark lamai]

from just reading many posts it does seem that:

any imm officer at a border can now use his/her discretion (prejudice/xenophobia)

to deny/red stamp/or other to anyone with say 3 stamps in the last 6 months.

example being the dive guy who got 15 days to leave Thailand,

cause he had heaps of 30 day stamps.

this has already happened, its not even oct. 1 , now that's discretion!

maybe the Imm officer knew him and didn't like him, who knows.

so anyone with 3 stamps in the last 6 months should be aware that they COULD be denied/given 15 or 30 days to leave and go to sin bin for 90 days.

It will be happening for sure, lots of those Imm. guys don't like you much.

Forget what the regs say, you won't be able to argue the point at Poipet or Ranong etc.

[uncletom]

Yesterday I took al ook at what the immigration had to say.

What I got out of it is, it is certainly 30 day transit stamps that they are not fond of...But it did say 90 days in 90 days out.

What does this really refer to, meaning what power does it allow them.. Already consulates don't want to give multple tourist visa's anyway So their loophole is 90 in 90 out no matter what the hel_l you have..Leaving being able to stay here up to the fortunate ones who can get a one year visa..And not everyone can get a one year...OR CAN THEY ?...... Get a tourist 90 day visa..ok fine... but when that 90 days is up can you really go get another visa or are you subject to the 90 in 90 out too.

It didn't seem to explicit enough and leaves alot for thought... Red stamps ahoy....

[jdinasia]

uncletom -----

Relax a bit .... if you have a valid visa you will be fine. If, on the other hand,you are a bar owner with no visible means of support making border runs every 30 days. They might just have a looksee at you!

[wrgf]

The RED STAMP is here now!

I posted several days ago about a red stamp issued to a friend and now I hear of another. This is a preview of what is about to happen. They are not going to strand anybody at the airport or the boarder with too many 30 day stamps.

My prediction on available knowledge is:

Oct 1 immigration at all entrys will look into incomming passports and make a quick decision about how many stamps the holder has. When they are over the limit they will be given a RED STAMP put in a profound spot (like the first page). This RED STAMP says " Upon exiting Thailand you MAY NOT be permitted to reenter"

So this person would have a month and maybe an extension to go pack his bags or try to get another type of Visa.

HOPE THIS HELPS THOSE IN NEED.

LLL

So you are saying that red stamps are being issued now? We are preactive rather than retroactive?

[Ned]

A letter in The Nation today from an NGO down in the south said that Ranong Immigration are no longer giving out visas on arrival. He didn't say how long these border runners had already been here but I assume they've been here for longer than 90 days in the last 180. Maybe not.

On another related matter, yesterday's papers said that once a traveller had had 3 VOAs they could apply for a 60 day tourist visa from a Thai embassy or consul IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY. So in other words not Penang or Vientiane for example.

I'm starting to get a gut feeling though, that all this might be a one off and things will be back to normal within a year.

[threelegcowboy]

The RED STAMP is here now!

I posted several days ago about a red stamp issued to a friend and now I hear of another. This is a preview of what is about to happen. They are not going to strand anybody at the airport or the boarder with too many 30 day stamps.

My prediction on available knowledge is:

Oct 1 immigration at all entrys will look into incomming passports and make a quick decision about how many stamps the holder has. When they are over the limit they will be given a RED STAMP put in a profound spot (like the first page). This RED STAMP says " Upon exiting Thailand you MAY NOT be permitted to reenter"

So this person would have a month and maybe an extension to go pack his bags or try to get another type of Visa.

HOPE THIS HELPS THOSE IN NEED.

LLL

So you are saying that red stamps are being issued now? We are preactive rather than retroactive?

They have been using this red stamp for months.

My friend who has back to back 2+1 tourist visa for years was given a red stamp besides his 2+1 Visa issued. His final days are now less than a week. They gave that stamp back 11 weeks ago.

Another friend with 30 day visa runs for years was just given a red stamp also. I do not know where they placed it in his passport.

It is just a warning to go ahead into Thailand and get your stuff sorted out before you leave.

I am sure you could return after 90 days.

LLL

Edited September 17, 2006 by threelegcowboy

[mark lamai]

just gets less and less clear don't it.

a VoA is only available to citizens of some south asian countries?

is that right?

its saying "go home Indians/Bangladeshis" i guess.

question still burning is about citizens of the 41 countries.

seems in theory they can go to an embassy nearby and apply for a visa,

but also seems that whether they get one or not will be arbitrary.

(my wife boxing me last night, you no get visa.)

back to the old days it seems.

long hair, beards, tattoos - no come in.

etc etc

personally I am off to Phnom Penh next week to grovel at the Thai embassy for any type of visa I can get.

fortunately have a new passport with only 1 30 stamp in it.

be interesting to see what is happening there.

[John K]

As much as I would like to believe this, if it is not in writing it is up to each persons interpretation. We have all seen inconsistences in Thai government. Reading some of the posts some places still are at 200 ThB per day of overstay and not 500.

If you take word for word what the notice says, it implies starting October 1 people will have a one way trip.

Reading in another thread “panic about nothing” I can see cracks are already starting to form on the Thai side as fallout from the implication of Thais losing money. This whole thing could just be not acted on because they failed to see the financial and political implications.

Perhaps asking someone like Jacks Total Golf who does visa runs and interacts daily with the Thais on post, see what the Thais on the border have to say.

Has any of this hit the Thai media yet? That may give you a clue.

[wpcoe]

just gets less and less clear don't it.

a VoA is only available to citizens of some south asian countries?

is that right?

its saying "go home Indians/Bangladeshis" i guess.

I'm not so sure about that.

http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/visa.htm shows India on the list of countries that gets a 15 day VISA on arrival. Folks with VISAs are not involved in this new madness.

This "new madness" as I termed it applies to "Foreigners That Are Exempted From The Visa, Order No. 608 / 2549" i.e., the ones on the "LIST OF COUNTRIES NOT REQUIRING VISA".

There is a free use of the term VOA (Visa On Arrival) but it's a misnomer to apply it to the countries on the "LIST OF COUNTRIES NOT REQUIRING VISA," like the UK, USA, Australia, Germany, Japan, etc.

It has been repeatedly been said that if you have a VISA, you are not restricted to the 90-days-in-six-months enforcement. Folks from India, China, Russia, etc DO get a visa ... a true V.O.A.

Now, that said, since the "empowering" of individual Immigrations Officers as explained in the new brochure (see http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/newpro.html, panel four), who knows how any of the procedures will be implemented at any given checkpoint podium?

just gets less and less clear don't it.

Indeed

[astral]

Tourist Visa Exemption

Perhaps we should follow Sunbelts naming and call it a TVE

to avoid the confusion.

[heybruce]

Can someone tell me starting from Oct. 1 if this is going to be retro-active or not?

I was reading they will look back 6 months and look at the number of stamps during the last 6 monts? If so, will they start counting from the 1st of October, or on the 1st of October will they start counting from the 1st of April 2006?

Second question, imagine, in the latter case, you have one stamp in on March 23 and out on April 5. Will this 'out" stamp be counted, or is only "in" stamp that counts?

Sunbelt Asia or someone, could you clarify?????

Thanks.

Anybody who can answer this question?

Our understanding now, people from these countries will start with zero Tourist Visa Exemption entries on Oct 1st, 2006 Even if you enter Thailand on Sept 30th, 2006 and need to leave on Oct 29th, 2006. This does not count.

Example: You have 48 thirty day Tourist Visa Exemption entry stamps in your passport. On Oct 1st you arrive in Thailand, you only have zero stamps in their eyes at that point. You leave the Immigration arrival check point desk and now have one thirty day stamp and have a quota of two more Tourist Visa Exemption thirty day stamps left in the next six months.

Once you have used up your quota, you go to a Thai Embassy/Consulate and get a visa before you arrive in Thailand.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I certainly hope this is how the change will be implemented. Like many people I am eligible for a Type O visa, education in my case, but found it easier to make the border run every four weeks. Under this interpretation I can continue with classes until early December, leave the country with a letter from my school, and return a few weeks later with a Type O visa (fingers crossed). Thank you Sunbelt Asis for the considerable amount of time you have invested in these posts. Please do keep up the good work.

[zeusbheld]

I don't like to spread unfounded rumors, but the immi officers at the border are the one who make the decision. Let me just say, there is a supervisor at least one border post who is saying that when they decide to let you enter or not on a 30 day permit, it will be based on how much time you have been in Thailand in the last 6 months, whether that is on 30 day permits or tourist visas, it doesn't matter. This come directly from the mouth of a supervisor at a popular southern port of entry.

...but you did anyway !

totster

wondering was this supervisor the same guy who put his poodle in the microwave...

<<note to self: avoid southern ports of entry, especially popular ones>>

[zeusbheld]

I don't like to spread unfounded rumors, but the immi officers at the border are the one who make the decision. Let me just say, there is a supervisor at least one border post who is saying that when they decide to let you enter or not on a 30 day permit, it will be based on how much time you have been in Thailand in the last 6 months, whether that is on 30 day permits or tourist visas, it doesn't matter. This come directly from the mouth of a supervisor at a popular southern port of entry.

This is the bottomline, even when the head Immigration guy says it starts Oct 1st. The officer can use their discretion. Just like certain Embassys/ Consulates are known to be more liberal and others stricter. This may be the case at certain Immigration checkpoints., some will be known more smoother than others because they interpret the law different.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

i guess there's an upside for this website--lots of traffic as people try to figure out which ports of entry to avoid...

stay tuned, kids, this game is far from over...

[TingTawng]

Perhaps asking someone like Jacks Total Golf who does visa runs and interacts daily with the Thais on post, see what the Thais on the border have to say.

This is the only true way to see how the laws will be applied - by getting feedback from the companies doing the visa runs over the coming weeks. This will give an accurate picture of the severity of enforcement, which is the bottom line.

I'm going to be applying for a 60 day tourist visa (am in the UK now) and hoping that doesn't 'count' with this new restriction and that I can get 2 months (tourist visa) + 3 border run stamps = 5 months in Thailand (looking to be there 5/6 months anyway).

What worries me is that when I've done visa runs before, a lot of the people who were doing these runs were doing them for years - there's going to be a big change in the ex-pat community if they do enforce these laws strongly.

[Whitey]

It is going to be some thing.....why be in Thailand any longer? Why be someplace you are not wanted?

[poorfarang]

Ranong is not giving VOA any more???

Somehow I doubt that.... Are there more details?