Windows XP antimalware support ends next month

[BuaBS]

This is a pretty ignorant statement. "A computer should be fun , it should just work, like winXP already does." I guarantee you that a fresh install of Linux will be up and running before XP. With XP you'd have to spend a lot of time hunting down and then installing legacy drivers for your hardware while most Linux distros will run everything out of the box. And no I'm not a Linux fanboi: I have 3 desktops and 1 laptop and only use Linux on my media pc which is connected to my television. Mint works pretty much exactly the same as XP and even a halfwit wouldn't have to spend more than 5 minutes learning how to use it.

Also " There should be some kind of translater manual , putting win XP terms/program parts into Linux." It's called Google.

btw I'm not an XP hater. Just saying that if you want to keep driving your Model T Ford go ahead. However it will run a lot slower, break down more often, be harder to find parts for, be less safe and less efficient and easier to break into.

""This is a pretty ignorant statement. "A computer should be fun , it should just work, like winXP already does ""

For the majority of people , who know nothing about computers but use them every day , it should just work and be fun. ( btw : "It just works " ...wasn't that an Apple slogan ?)

I only do a fresh install when I put in a new HDD. Even then I do not have to spend time "hunting down " drivers . I have them all nicely on cd & SD.

My model T ford does not run slower , is safe and will eventually break down , just like a new one can break down a couple of days after the 1 year waranty runs out.

[connda]

Five letters - one word - Linux!

[Chicog]

Five letters - one word - Linux!

An excellent and far safer alternative than XP for those with normal needs (Browsing, email, maybe some WP). And you can get builds that aren't that hard to install and run on old PCs quite well.

[Chicog]

I love my XP as many of the above have said,its a pity i cant load it onto one of these new powerful machines that are on sale today.something to do with no drivers available i think

You can always run it in a VM

[khunken]

Every Win product has flaws, some serious & some not. The constant patching points to that. XP has been around long enough to have been patched to make it pretty safe for home users. It is not true that every flaw found in subsequent OS versions is applicable to XP.

Every version subsequent to Windows XP contains legacy XP code. I would say most patches that have been released in the last 12 months will identify a flaw in XP; plus you have to factor in patches to IE and Office that they will not be making to XP versions. So not 100% but close enough to it that it makes little difference.

As far as ATM & POS networks go, the article in your link refers to some retailers not having proper security (addressed at the end of the article) measures in place. One major security measure that they've obviously ignored is NOT to have their networks connected to the internet. Oh and BTW the article never even mentioned XP - just some examples of badly run networks.

IMO no critical computer system - airlines, banks, power stations etc - should allow their networks to be penetrated via the internet. There has been numerous cases, even more recently, of critical syatems being hacked - nothing to do with XP but poor systems/network design and security.

The Target breach that leaked tens of millions of card details was done on a network not connected to the Internet. It was breached by someone leaking credentials.

However, they were then able to deploy POS malware by exploiting unpatched systems.

Every single security system has to incorporate a great deal of things, border control, OS and application patching, proper log analysis to name but a few.

But the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

For me, a home user, no MS or individual scaremongering has yet convinced me that XP is not as close to perfection for what I use computers for.

That's nice for you.

But what is wrong is to try and portray that as anything but unnecessarily high risk behaviour.

Sorry Chicog but you're getting more and more off topic.

I agree that subsequent versious of Windows include legacy XP code but IMO getting less & less in each newer OS. I don't use IE so that's irrelevant and patches to Office are rarely significent.

Using insider security hacks is also getting into the irrelevant arena as (a) it doesn't really apply to home networks & (b} it doesn't matter what OS one is running. Yes the weakest link is the most vulnerable but, again, not particular to XP systems.

No, I don't accept that what I do is high risk - that's just more scaremongering. You are patronising me without knowing what I do, what security I have in place & how many times I've has a security breach (one in around 5 years due to my own stupidity in opening an email attachment).

There is only one condition that would make me seriously consider an upgrade. That is if an important piece of software to me doesn't run on XP. I haven't found any yet.

Edited to get rid of the stupid smiley that TV substitutes for a 'b close bracket'.

Edited June 25, 2015 by khunken

[Chicog]

Sorry Chicog but you're getting more and more off topic.

• You're the one that brought up ATM & POS networks to try and prove that they aren't affected by vulnerablities. I was simply pointing out that your logic is one dimensional and flawed ("they aren't connected to the Internet").

I agree that subsequent versious of Windows include legacy XP code but IMO getting less & less in each newer OS. I don't use IE so that's irrelevant and patches to Office are rarely significent.

• IE is mostly an integral part of the OS, so unless you've removed all traces of it the vulnerable code will probably still be there. And because Office replaces so many underlying files (DLLs, etc.) a critical flaw is usually significant - that's why they call them "Critical".

Using insider security hacks is also getting into the irrelevant arena as (a) it doesn't really apply to home networks & ( it doesn't matter what OS one is running. Yes the weakest link is the most vulnerable but, again, not particular to XP systems.

• Exploiting vulnerabilites is not an "insider security hack" - it's what thousands of criminals do to exploit systems, even if it's only to use them to send spam and phishing messages.

No, I don't accept that what I do is high risk

• That is simply a matter of opinion. In my opinion, especially if you are connected to the Internet, using XP is now the quickest pathway to an infected PC. There is no such thing as a 100% secure OS, router, firewall or any other security method. All you can ( and should!) do is minimise the risk, you can't eliminate it. But by using an unpatched, increasingly insecure OS, you are drastically increasing your risk. Please don't try and portray as otherwise, lest less experienced people think it's fine to do it.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Chicog

[Chicog]

Just a question out of curiosity but i understand most ATMs and some other public utilities like some security applications/CTV etc still use XP .(especially if they were installed over a decade ago) . Have they updated too or is Microsoft still supporting them though another agreement ?

If they have half a brain cell they are still getting updates from Microsoft at a cost. But I would imagine Microsoft will be steadily raising that cost to the point where it's cheaper for them just to bite the bullet and put money into the upgrades.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Chicog

[RamblingSam]

A couple of questions:

If you use a tablet or mobile phone for your e-mails, send and receive documents, so your PC running XP, doesn't have a direct connection to the internet, does malware etc, have much chance getting onto your PC?

Furthermore, can your PC be hacked if you also transfer data between your PC and other devices via a USB memory stick?

Malware via a CD or DVD may well corrupt your hard drive and files on it, but without a being directly connected to the internet, other more serious damage, which would need an internet connection is probably also prevented.

Stuxnet, and more modern variants of it, might cause XP users problems, but isn't that using a sledge-hammer to crack a peanut, and the size of the files needed to to install this nasty worm, are pretty big, and target things I doubt an XP user doesn't use such a PC for.

At the end of the day, this is surely more about MS wanting users to spend money on upgrading their O/S and software, which in the vast majority of cases, is more than capable of doing the types of things most users want a PC to do, and MS, are just peed off that a lot of people just don't want, and are refusing to upgrade!

[Chicog]

A couple of questions:

If you use a tablet or mobile phone for your e-mails, send and receive documents, so your PC running XP, doesn't have a direct connection to the internet, does malware etc, have much chance getting onto your PC?

Furthermore, can your PC be hacked if you also transfer data between your PC and other devices via a USB memory stick?

Malware via a CD or DVD may well corrupt your hard drive and files on it, but without a being directly connected to the internet, other more serious damage, which would need an internet connection is probably also prevented.

Stuxnet, and more modern variants of it, might cause XP users problems, but isn't that using a sledge-hammer to crack a peanut, and the size of the files needed to to install this nasty worm, are pretty big, and target things I doubt an XP user doesn't use such a PC for.

At the end of the day, this is surely more about MS wanting users to spend money on upgrading their O/S and software, which in the vast majority of cases, is more than capable of doing the types of things most users want a PC to do, and MS, are just peed off that a lot of people just don't want, and are refusing to upgrade!

There are lots of malware that use USB as an infection vector. And malware doesn't have to be an executable program. It can be buried in a macro in a word document, or a PDF.

Or the USB itself may have been infected, and prior to SP3 (if I remember correctly), the default behaviour of XP was to autorun CDs and USB drives.

So yes, Stuxnet was the more highly publicised, but I've seen plenty of malware that can move around via USB.

One thing you can use is Panda USB Vaccine which disables Autorun and also prevents the system files on the USB being hijacked by malware. It's free.

[CapFarmer]

I am a long time XP user and don't want to upgrade to anything else. If I have to, my next stop will probably be Linux. Anyways, 3rd party antivirus and malware protection is still being updated for XP and most of the PCs running in the world run XP so I think we are good to go for a while. As has been cautioned already, do not click on anything you do not know where it leads or unsure about where it came from.

[Chicog]

No I didn't miss that. Lunix has shot itself in the foot (or face). Dilluting into a hundred or more "flavors".

A forest where you can't see the trees. And the awful naming of their programs & parts of the operating system. Saying that "mint" looks a lot like XP , doesn't say much about how it works and feels.

Lunix people keep trying to make it hard to switch. There should be some kind of translater manual , putting win XP terms/program parts into Linux. But even then it would not be like XP , or better.

A computer should be fun , it should just work , like winXP already does. I don't want my precious time wasted on learning things that I can already do on trusted XP.

Most of us here on TV are older , let the kids figure win 10 /linux out. (And no I don't want any iCrap from that fruit company).

This is a pretty ignorant statement. "A computer should be fun , it should just work, like winXP already does." I guarantee you that a fresh install of Linux will be up and running before XP. With XP you'd have to spend a lot of time hunting down and then installing legacy drivers for your hardware while most Linux distros will run everything out of the box. And no I'm not a Linux fanboi: I have 3 desktops and 1 laptop and only use Linux on my media pc which is connected to my television. Mint works pretty much exactly the same as XP and even a halfwit wouldn't have to spend more than 5 minutes learning how to use it.

Also " There should be some kind of translater manual , putting win XP terms/program parts into Linux." It's called Google.

btw I'm not an XP hater. Just saying that if you want to keep driving your Model T Ford go ahead. However it will run a lot slower, break down more often, be harder to find parts for, be less safe and less efficient and easier to break into.

It's also worth pointing out to people that

(1) You don't need to install Linux to try it out; there are lots of bootable distros that you can run from a USB drive or a CD Drive (if your PC is so old it can't boot from USB!).

(2) It isn't very difficult to download a disk image (say, an .ISO file), and use it to make a bootable USB (use something like RUFUS).

If you are using XP at home and want to improve your security without going to a new version of Windows, you could do worse.

Something like Zorin Lite might be perfect for you.

[RichCor]

One of my AMT cards will consistently crash ATMs running Windows XP.

As the OS crashes, a lot of private internal bank network data gets displayed

Dial codes, unmasked login credentials, security and IP specs all displayed as it retries and continues to crash.

Bank managers don't care when I've tried to bring it to their attention. They just say not to use that card.

I guess they practice Security Through Obscurity.

[Chicog]

I am a long time XP user and don't want to upgrade to anything else. If I have to, my next stop will probably be Linux. Anyways, 3rd party antivirus and malware protection is still being updated for XP and most of the PCs running in the world run XP so I think we are good to go for a while. As has been cautioned already, do not click on anything you do not know where it leads or unsure about where it came from.

(1) Most of the PC's running in the world are not running XP. As of May 2015, it's on less that 15% of PC's. (Before anyone asks, Linux is 2%, OSX is 5-6% and the rest are Windows - Win 7 is the biggest with 58%).

(2) Antimalware is next to useless nowadays. Panda reckon they detect 160,000 new samples every DAY. How often do you get updates?

Also, I had one user whose C: Drive got encrypted simply by visiting a legitimate site which had itself been unknowingly hacked. It used a vulnerability in Adobe Flash - His Windows 7 was patched up to date - to run the malware and encrypt his C: Drive. Fortunately it was easy to recover. There are a couple of threads on the subject here somewhere.

I forgot to stress: keep your apps up to date as well!

[Chicog]

One of my AMT cards will consistently crash ATMs running Windows XP.

As the OS crashes, a lot of private internal bank network data gets displayed

Dial codes, unmasked login credentials, security and IP specs all displayed as it retries and continues to crash.

Bank managers don't care when I've tried to bring it to their attention. They just say not to use that card.

I guess they practice Security Through Obscurity.

I bet they'd dance to a different tune if you took it to the Board..... I find that really quite unbelievable (in the sense that how on earth can a banker not take that seriously other than through sheer ignorance!).

Edited June 25, 2015 by Chicog

[Jaggg88]

This concerns Microsoft Security Essentials. I'm sure users can and will find other solutions.

Actually no, it concerns all MS Security products, Forefront, SCEP etc. Because I have 300 of the b*****D's I'm still stuck with.

AVG and Avast Free are probably the best bet for those clinging on, but they are little protection to an increasingly vulnerable OS.

I agree with your post except I don't agree XP is an increasingly vulnerable OS. Hackers and virus geeks attack the most common OS as this affects the most people and is the OS that they will most likely be working with. Linux is the most open unprotected OS of all but is rarely attacked. Apple users are always boasting that they don't suffer the same attacks as windows users but they are protected by the fact a common or garden hacker is not usually an expensive Apple user. We are about to move on to Windows 10 so lets look forward to the next round of battles with the hackers and virus geeks. I don't think an XP user has much to fear.

[khunken]

Sorry Chicog but you're getting more and more off topic.

• You're the one that brought up ATM & POS networks to try and prove that they aren't affected by vulnerablities. I was simply pointing out that your logic is one dimensional and flawed ("they aren't connected to the Internet").

I agree that subsequent versious of Windows include legacy XP code but IMO getting less & less in each newer OS. I don't use IE so that's irrelevant and patches to Office are rarely significent.

• IE is mostly an integral part of the OS, so unless you've removed all traces of it the vulnerable code will probably still be there. And because Office replaces so many underlying files (DLLs, etc.) a critical flaw is usually significant - that's why they call them "Critical".

Using insider security hacks is also getting into the irrelevant arena as (a) it doesn't really apply to home networks & ( it doesn't matter what OS one is running. Yes the weakest link is the most vulnerable but, again, not particular to XP systems.

• Exploiting vulnerabilites is not an "insider security hack" - it's what thousands of criminals do to exploit systems, even if it's only to use them to send spam and phishing messages.

No, I don't accept that what I do is high risk

• That is simply a matter of opinion. In my opinion, especially if you are connected to the Internet, using XP is now the quickest pathway to an infected PC. There is no such thing as a 100% secure OS, router, firewall or any other security method. All you can ( and should!) do is minimise the risk, you can't eliminate it. But by using an unpatched, increasingly insecure OS, you are drastically increasing your risk. Please don't try and portray as otherwise, lest less experienced people think it's fine to do it.

I brought up the ATM & POS item as some posters were portraying it as an XP risk. That wasn't off topic but some of your other comments were - IE and the unrelated link to POSs that had nothing to do with XP..

I know you have more knowledge of the Win systems than I do but I don't accept your continuing patronising comments and I certainly will continue to oppose the type of scaremongering that you are applying here.

I don't portray my setup or any setup as risk free but I don't agree that XP is 'increasingly' insecure, nor do I agree that it is any more insecure than other WIN OSs. Just because that you or MS say that XP is 'more' vulnerable is not good enough as I have seen no independent evidence to back that up.

I respect your opinion but would respect it more if you toned down the arrogance.

[Chicog]

Sorry Chicog but you're getting more and more off topic.

• You're the one that brought up ATM & POS networks to try and prove that they aren't affected by vulnerablities. I was simply pointing out that your logic is one dimensional and flawed ("they aren't connected to the Internet").

I agree that subsequent versious of Windows include legacy XP code but IMO getting less & less in each newer OS. I don't use IE so that's irrelevant and patches to Office are rarely significent.

• IE is mostly an integral part of the OS, so unless you've removed all traces of it the vulnerable code will probably still be there. And because Office replaces so many underlying files (DLLs, etc.) a critical flaw is usually significant - that's why they call them "Critical".

Using insider security hacks is also getting into the irrelevant arena as (a) it doesn't really apply to home networks & ( it doesn't matter what OS one is running. Yes the weakest link is the most vulnerable but, again, not particular to XP systems.

• Exploiting vulnerabilites is not an "insider security hack" - it's what thousands of criminals do to exploit systems, even if it's only to use them to send spam and phishing messages.

No, I don't accept that what I do is high risk

• That is simply a matter of opinion. In my opinion, especially if you are connected to the Internet, using XP is now the quickest pathway to an infected PC. There is no such thing as a 100% secure OS, router, firewall or any other security method. All you can ( and should!) do is minimise the risk, you can't eliminate it. But by using an unpatched, increasingly insecure OS, you are drastically increasing your risk. Please don't try and portray as otherwise, lest less experienced people think it's fine to do it.

I brought up the ATM & POS item as some posters were portraying it as an XP risk. That wasn't off topic but some of your other comments were - IE and the unrelated link to POSs that had nothing to do with XP..

I know you have more knowledge of the Win systems than I do but I don't accept your continuing patronising comments and I certainly will continue to oppose the type of scaremongering that you are applying here.

I don't portray my setup or any setup as risk free but I don't agree that XP is 'increasingly' insecure, nor do I agree that it is any more insecure than other WIN OSs. Just because that you or MS say that XP is 'more' vulnerable is not good enough as I have seen no independent evidence to back that up.

I respect your opinion but would respect it more if you toned down the arrogance.

I'm not after your respect. The rest I'll answer in detail in time.

[Robinhood]

Microsoft is being stupid ... XP is the Best OS, there is. It gives you total control of the PC. Now the buggers are trying to take it back so they can add silly features and make more money.

Stick with XP, Friends. Use a good anti-malaware program and tell MS to .........

[Chicog]

I agree with your post except I don't agree XP is an increasingly vulnerable OS. Hackers and virus geeks attack the most common OS as this affects the most people and is the OS that they will most likely be working with. Linux is the most open unprotected OS of all but is rarely attacked. Apple users are always boasting that they don't suffer the same attacks as windows users but they are protected by the fact a common or garden hacker is not usually an expensive Apple user. We are about to move on to Windows 10 so lets look forward to the next round of battles with the hackers and virus geeks. I don't think an XP user has much to fear.

For the sake of argument let's say there are a billion PCs on the planet, and XP is running on 15% of them.

That's 150 million easy targets.

All of which would make a nice host for spam or phishing.

I can't see the hackers losing interest any time soon. That's why there are so many fingerprint scans running at any given moment.

[Chicog]

Microsoft is being stupid ... XP is the Best OS, there is. It gives you total control of the PC.

It gives you total control of.... an old PC maybe.

But no more so than Windows 10 will do on a new PC, and that will have support for a whole load of hardware that you can't use (i.e. pretty well anything invented since XP support ended).

[khunken]

Sorry Chicog but you're getting more and more off topic.

• You're the one that brought up ATM & POS networks to try and prove that they aren't affected by vulnerablities. I was simply pointing out that your logic is one dimensional and flawed ("they aren't connected to the Internet").

I agree that subsequent versious of Windows include legacy XP code but IMO getting less & less in each newer OS. I don't use IE so that's irrelevant and patches to Office are rarely significent.

• IE is mostly an integral part of the OS, so unless you've removed all traces of it the vulnerable code will probably still be there. And because Office replaces so many underlying files (DLLs, etc.) a critical flaw is usually significant - that's why they call them "Critical".

Using insider security hacks is also getting into the irrelevant arena as (a) it doesn't really apply to home networks & ( it doesn't matter what OS one is running. Yes the weakest link is the most vulnerable but, again, not particular to XP systems.

• Exploiting vulnerabilites is not an "insider security hack" - it's what thousands of criminals do to exploit systems, even if it's only to use them to send spam and phishing messages.

No, I don't accept that what I do is high risk

• That is simply a matter of opinion. In my opinion, especially if you are connected to the Internet, using XP is now the quickest pathway to an infected PC. There is no such thing as a 100% secure OS, router, firewall or any other security method. All you can ( and should!) do is minimise the risk, you can't eliminate it. But by using an unpatched, increasingly insecure OS, you are drastically increasing your risk. Please don't try and portray as otherwise, lest less experienced people think it's fine to do it.

I brought up the ATM & POS item as some posters were portraying it as an XP risk. That wasn't off topic but some of your other comments were - IE and the unrelated link to POSs that had nothing to do with XP..

I know you have more knowledge of the Win systems than I do but I don't accept your continuing patronising comments and I certainly will continue to oppose the type of scaremongering that you are applying here.

I don't portray my setup or any setup as risk free but I don't agree that XP is 'increasingly' insecure, nor do I agree that it is any more insecure than other WIN OSs. Just because that you or MS say that XP is 'more' vulnerable is not good enough as I have seen no independent evidence to back that up.

I respect your opinion but would respect it more if you toned down the arrogance.

I'm not after your respect. The rest I'll answer in detail in time.

Well if you don't want me to respect your opinion you're wasting your time as I'm off this thread.

[Chicog]

Ooh flounce.

[h90]

Microsoft is being stupid ... XP is the Best OS, there is. It gives you total control of the PC. Now the buggers are trying to take it back so they can add silly features and make more money.

Stick with XP, Friends. Use a good anti-malaware program and tell MS to .........

Win2000 was better in my opinion

[Chicog]

Microsoft is being stupid ... XP is the Best OS, there is. It gives you total control of the PC. Now the buggers are trying to take it back so they can add silly features and make more money.

Stick with XP, Friends. Use a good anti-malaware program and tell MS to .........

Win2000 was better in my opinion

Amazingly still out there in numbers, along with NT and 95! And running critical systems too.

[hawksway]

The main reason Users don't want to upgrade to modern versions of Windows is that they simply don't want to pay the 4000 Baht for Windows 8 which has anti virus and malware protection built in.

If you don't want to dig into your pockets download Ubuntu Linux. It's free, it's easy. It has a Microsoft look alike Office package, DVD Writer, Firefox Browser, Skype support and much more. Linux, like Apple OS is so secure that anti virus and Malware protection is unnecessary.

Lastly, Linux is much faster and more stable - hardly ever crashes.

[katana]

XP users should buy a new computer OR switch to linux already. Geez.

Like I already wrote in another post about XP : you'd have to pay me to even get a new free win10 machine.

Microsoft anti malware is one of the worst in tests. So no loss there. There are still free anti virus & malware programs that support XP. I really don't care that MS doesn't support XP , I have no updates since 2010-11.

In return I do not support MS either...555.

The only thing I miss , is XP support for external HDD's bigger than 2 TB.

I have a 3TB internal disk recognised and functioning in Win XP after installing a program called Paragon GPT Loader which installs a special system driver and a utility for initializing ultra high capacity drives.

Haven't tried a 3 TB external drive but it may well work too with this software.

[BuaBS]

The main reason Users don't want to upgrade to modern versions of Windows is that they simply don't want to pay the 4000 Baht for Windows 8 which has anti virus and malware protection built in.

If you don't want to dig into your pockets download Ubuntu Linux. It's free, it's easy. It has a Microsoft look alike Office package, DVD Writer, Firefox Browser, Skype support and much more. Linux, like Apple OS is so secure that anti virus and Malware protection is unnecessary.

Lastly, Linux is much faster and more stable - hardly ever crashes.

Yes and no.

Suppose your machine can work with a more recent version of windows , you don't need to spend money.

You have friends & family that can lend their installation dvd , most have simular PC's , only the newer are 64 bit and ours is probably still 32 bit.

You have of course torrents .....( can't say more on this forum).

And living in Thailand , it is pretty easy to get an "unofficial" version....

From a win 7 or 8 , there will be a free up(?)grade to win10.

And if you really , really want or need a newer version , no problem paying that 100 $.

So no it is not a question of money.

Well ...maybe , if you're like me , with a BIG dislike ( putting it mildly) for MS and other US companies, to the point that I don't want to spend any money on them , then yes it is also a question of money.

But like I said before : you would have to pay ME to use a newer windows version , I completely don't want it nor do I want a new ( free) computer.

Linux MAY be an alternative , but ONLY WHEN my current machine dies without being able to fix it ( I have a identical 2nd hand for spare parts....)

[Chicog]

I took a look at Zorin, and if your issue upgrading is the software or hardware costs, you could do a lot worse -it's free and has

And when you boot Zorin, it gives you the option, literally, to "Try it" before you install it.

And it has a very nice, clean GUI so you shouldn't have any problem navigating.

I'd recommend anyone on XP to at least give it a shot - if you dont like it you just remove the CD or USB and reboot; it won't change anything.

http://zorin-os.com/free.html

Edited June 26, 2015 by Chicog