Total Duration Versus Stamps Controversy

[cclub75]

At that point, we still don't have a confirmation regarding the controversy total duration of stay / 3 entry stamps

To remind you : 2 solutions

-I can enter many times in Thailand (many stamps "visa exemption") but the total duration can not exceed 90 days per 6 month.

-I can get maximum 3 stamps within 6 months (it means 3 entries, 3x30 days = 90)

Yesterday, Bangkok Post and Nation published both papers about the new regulations.

Under the new system to go into effect on Oct 1, nationals from the same 41 countries will be allowed 30-day tourist visas which may be extended twice, after which the tourists will have to stay out of Thailand for at least 90 days before returning again.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=112941

From October 1, tourists from the 41 visa-exempt countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but they will only be able to extend their stay here two times - that is, for a maximum of 90 days.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/09/16...es_30013796.php

And we have the website of Immigration

Total duration of stay should not exceed 90 days within a 6 month perdiod

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/newpro.html

Voila. That's the main black hole. And beyond the fact that visa runners are in trouble, this black hole is a main concern for people who use BKK like a "rear base" to come on week ends, or 1 day to have business meeting, many times per month.

[A_Traveller]

Sorry not an answer but one problem here, is to be direct, the poor quality of reporting. Given that a key element of the readership of the website and the paper itself will be in country, one would have thought that they would take the time to cover that element of the statement fully. So far all we have here, is one poster saying he saw on the television someone saying it would be days.

Also, Bangkok Post still refers to VISAS when the process being discussed appears to be visa waiver {30 day stamp}, which is not the same as Visa on Entry either.

The Nation kept amending it's original report and the piece by Jimbo leaves much to be desired, both on the "is it days or stamps" and is any element of this retroactive.

One other question which the Immigration site rasies is will 30 day extentions to Tourist Visas still be allowed and what, if any, further restriction will be put in place on them?

With no publication of the formal rules, at least that I have seen, it is difficult to judge the position. Maybe someone here will be able to add to this now or do we need to wait until Monday?

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited September 16, 2006 by A_Traveller

[Norrad]

OK, just read the immigration notice you posted above and it says it will affect visa runners from 39 countries?! Not 41 like is usually mentioned. Does anyone know where we can get a list of these 39 countries?

[LivinLOS]

I still maintain that counting days will be near impossible.

The immigration front man at the airport will have to get your 48 page passport (not even thinking about dual passport holders and dual nationalities)..

Check every one of the 48 pages..

Examine all stamps to see if its within 6 months (also bearing in mind months have different amounts of days.. Questions about how 30 and 31 day months are examined are there)..

Tally up every stamp in the last 6 months.. Counting days arounbd end of months manually and accurately.

Make sure this is less than 90.

Issue a customised amount of days to any person with less than 30 days left.

Repeat !!

Quite simply thats a multi minute process, it cant be computerised as theres only 15 of 55 borders networked in. Its a manual task and an immigration nightmare. Its also almost impossible for airline chack in staff within the contraints of airline check in speeds.

Hence we have to conclude IF its days it will purely be selective enforcement. Perhaps not done at all at airports due to the airlines problems with such an interpretation.

Of course if its stamps we are back to effecting the whole golfing, yachtie, frequent BKK warrior, oil rotation, etc crowd.. again hard to think they will do this.

[A_Traveller]

OK, just read the immigration notice you posted above and it says it will affect visa runners from 39 countries?! Not 41 like is usually mentioned. Does anyone know where we can get a list of these 39 countries?

In part the confusion is that the list says countries, and that the list is not managed by Immigration but by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

The list of users of the visa waiver scheme from the Ministry is for 41 issuing authorites, 40 countries and one administratve region {Hong Kong SAR} Please refer to the link provided for more detail.

Regards

1. Australia : Commonwealth of Australia

2. Austria : Republic of Austria

3. Belgium : Kingdom of Belgium

4. Brazil : Federative Republic of Brazil (****)

5. Bahrain : State of Bahrain

6. Brunei Darussalam : Negara Brunei Darussalam

7. Canada

8. Denmark : Kingdom of Denmark

9. Finland : Republic of Finland

10. France : French Republic

11. Germany : Federal Republic of Germany

12. Greece : Hellenic Republic

13. Hong Kong : Hong Kong Special Administrative Region

14. Iceland : Republic of Iceland

15. Indonesia : Republic of Indonesia

16. Ireland : Republic of Ireland

17. Israel : State of Israel

18. Italy : Republic of Italy

19. Japan

20. Korea : Republic of Korea (****)

21. Kuwait : State of Kuwait

22. Luxembourg : Grand Duchy of Luxembourg

23. Malaysia

24. Netherlands : Kingdom of the Netherlands

25. New Zealand

26. Norway : Kingdom of Norway

27. Oman : Sultanate of Oman

28. Peru : Republic of Peru (****)

29. Philippines : Republic of the Philippines

30. Portugal : Republic of Portugal

31. Qatar : State of Qatar

32. Singapore : Republic of Singapore

33. Spain : Kingdom of Spain

34. South Africa : Republic of South Africa

35. Sweden : Kingdom of Sweden

36. Switzerland : Swiss Confederation

37. Turkey : Republic of Turkey

38. United Arab Emirates

39. United Kingdom : United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

40. United States of America

41. Vietnam : Socialist Republic of Vietnam

Link http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

/edit add visa waiver scheme//

Edited September 16, 2006 by A_Traveller

[A_Traveller]

From another thread, not the response below

Regards

Sunbelt,

What are AIRLINES supposed to do when people show up for flights into Thailand and they see Thai stamps in the passport? How will airlines know whether to board or not? They can't be expected to interpet these new really rather complex rules. If they board, and the person is denied entry, don't they have to pay to fix the problem?

Our understanding, they will count the same as the Immigration officer, the number of 30 day stamps in the last six month period. More than three stamps and the traveler will need a visa from an Embassy/Consulate.

If they board, and the person is denied entry, don't they have to pay to fix the problem?

Have head of this in the past. However will they give the airline a grace period? I don't know.

to be truly legal in a "your own " business, correct me if i am wrong,

you need to:

1. set up a thai limited company.

2. have the company agree to employ you in a job that is approved by the government and then provide you with the papers.

3. have the company employ 4 (?) Thai people for the 1 farang.

You do not need to hire any Thais to own a business or to get a work permit. This requirement is only for extension of stay based on business and if your objective is anything other than consultant (if the business objective is consultant or agent, you only need one Thai employee to get the long term visa extended)

If you cannot meet these criteria for the long term extension of stay based on business, get a one year multi entry visa with a work permit. No Thais will need to be employed in the company.

Please expand on this point, I don't want to put words in your mouth or cause confusion, but this could be taken to support the 3 visa waiver stamps not 90 aggregate days irrespective of the number of entries controversy

Our understanding and nothing has changed on this till now. It is stamps not days. You are here one hour in Thailand, it counts as one 30 day entry used.

From the Nation today confirms what we have been told...

Nation

From October 1, tourists from the 41 visa-exempt countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but they will only be able to extend their stay here two times - that is, for a maximum of 90 days.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Soju]

I still maintain that counting days will be near impossible.

The immigration front man at the airport will have to get your 48 page passport (not even thinking about dual passport holders and dual nationalities)..

Check every one of the 48 pages..

Examine all stamps to see if its within 6 months (also bearing in mind months have different amounts of days.. Questions about how 30 and 31 day months are examined are there)..

Tally up every stamp in the last 6 months.. Counting days arounbd end of months manually and accurately.

Make sure this is less than 90.

Issue a customised amount of days to any person with less than 30 days left.

Repeat !!

Quite simply thats a multi minute process, it cant be computerised as theres only 15 of 55 borders networked in. Its a manual task and an immigration nightmare. Its also almost impossible for airline chack in staff within the contraints of airline check in speeds.

Hence we have to conclude IF its days it will purely be selective enforcement. Perhaps not done at all at airports due to the airlines problems with such an interpretation.

Of course if its stamps we are back to effecting the whole golfing, yachtie, frequent BKK warrior, oil rotation, etc crowd.. again hard to think they will do this.

I suppose one thing they could do to avoid creating any problem with the airlines is warn you when you exit after using up your 90 days and/or 3 stamps that you must wait for 90 more days. If you elect to return sooner than 90 days, they allow you in but tell you you must leave within 15 days, and stamp your passport that you are not welcome back. That way the airline staff only needs to look for the Persona Non Grata stamp. Certainly there are people now who are blacklisted from certain countries but I assume either the airline has no way of checking blacklists and thus allows such passengers on, or they do and they prevent them from boarding. I don't see any difference here, other than we're potentially talking about a huge list. I don't see the need for being ultra-rigid in the enforcement of the 90-day rule, after all, the people they're trying to stop have already been doing it for years. If we were talking about dangerous people, obviously Thailand wouldn't want to allow them in period. But we're talking about mostly illegal workers and other visa runners who've been doing this for years, so I don't see any problem for Thailand to allow them in for one last short time to collect their things and then be banned for some fixed time period.

I'm not suggesting that I think this is a good idea that Thailand does this, certainly at least not with their current shotgun approach. I'm just saying that there should be a solution to the airline problem which would take all burden off the airlines to check people to see if they can legally enter Thailand or not.

[Gary A]

I personally think that the staying 90 days is the answer to the question. I can't believe that a businessman who comes to Thailand every month and only stays a few days each trip would be denied entrance after 3 trips within three months. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

[cclub75]

My concern is : if you recall the time line :

-BKK Post published a first paper last sunday.

-then some meeting and declaration of Pattaya Immigration officials.

-SunBelt called some people : it was the 90 days total duration interpretation.

-Then, we had another announcement this thursday.

The website of Thai Immigration published a page with the new regulations.

Nation was still silent.

-Then friday (yesterday), the meeting, the official announcement : BKK post published another paper , and Nation the first one.

My point is : today it's really official, even foreign medias started to publish the news. So we can assume that the process of decision making is over.

And we can assume that both Bangkok Post and Nation have had enough time to assess the information....

And both say that it's "3 stamps maximum".

But we are still unsure because many of us think that this system would create a serious blow to "short-timers" (people who come and go to BKK, 1 or 2 days, for business meeting or week ends).

Once again that's the whole issue : we know for sure that visa runs are finished. The only (big) question that remains regarding the new regulations is : total duration 90 days or 3 stamps maximum ?

And still nobody can answer that, with an official statement. It's amazing.

I still maintain that counting days will be near impossible.

The immigration front man at the airport will have to get your 48 page passport (not even thinking about dual passport holders and dual nationalities)..

Check every one of the 48 pages..

Examine all stamps to see if its within 6 months (also bearing in mind months have different amounts of days.. Questions about how 30 and 31 day months are examined are there)..

Tally up every stamp in the last 6 months.. Counting days arounbd end of months manually and accurately.

Make sure this is less than 90.

Issue a customised amount of days to any person with less than 30 days left.

Repeat !!

Quite simply thats a multi minute process, it cant be computerised as theres only 15 of 55 borders networked in. Its a manual task and an immigration nightmare. Its also almost impossible for airline chack in staff within the contraints of airline check in speeds.

Hence we have to conclude IF its days it will purely be selective enforcement. Perhaps not done at all at airports due to the airlines problems with such an interpretation.

Of course if its stamps we are back to effecting the whole golfing, yachtie, frequent BKK warrior, oil rotation, etc crowd.. again hard to think they will do this.

[Soju]

Our understanding and nothing has changed on this till now. It is stamps not days. You are here one hour in Thailand, it counts as one 30 day entry used.

From the Nation today confirms what we have been told...

Nation

From October 1, tourists from the 41 visa-exempt countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but they will only be able to extend their stay here two times - that is, for a maximum of 90 days.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I saw that article earlier, and at first thought it also confirms our worst fears. But some big questions still remain:

1) What was the source of their information in that article? They quote the Immigration Police Chief, but they don't attribute to anyone the part about the 3 stamp limitation. It could have been that the Immigration Police Chief said this, or it could have been that they just read that here on Thai Visa, or elsewhere. Or we don't know how correct their summary is without having direct quotes from Immigration.

2) The phrase "extend their stay" is ambiguous. That could be taken to mean back-to-back stamps, using the full 30 days, with no break (with the term "break" being needed to be defined). If someone enters only for a couple days, then exits, then comes back several weeks later, that could hardly be defined by anyone as "extending their stay".

3) The article then goes one to talk about South Asian tourists, and mentions that they can only get a VOA twice from neigboring countries, then must return to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa. Completely ambiguous language that only serves to muddy the waters further.

Clearly, what's needed is a very complete/detailed and unambiguous statement directly from Immigration. Not just one or two sentences, but probably paragraphs which include actual examples. Without any concrete examples of who they will permit re-entry and who they won't, I worry any statement will continue to be too ambiguous to be of any real value.

Attn: Thai Immigration Officials who may be reading this. Please give us several examples of who will and who will not be affected by your new enforcement...

Will a person who enters Thailand 3 times in one month, each time for only 2 days be prohibited from re-entering for some time? Give us an example of actual dates and the actual period of being prohibited re-entry.

Will a person with 3 stamps and/or 90 cumulative days of multiple stamps be allowed to return without a visa if they first return to a non-neigboring country and then re-enter Thailand, presumably by air?

The statement about returning to your country of origin, what does that mean? Is that the country I was born in, or the country I'm a citizen of, or is it the country where I reside and work? Or any of the above? If I don't return to my country of origin, but rather a different non-neighboring country, then am I allowed to get a visa and/or re-enter Thailand with just getting a stamp. If I'm not a South Asian tourist, then does all this talk about neigboring countries and country of origin have any bearing on me? Again, lots of real examples are needed to clarify this.

[A_Traveller]

My concern is : if you recall the time line :

-BKK Post published a first paper last sunday.

-then some meeting and declaration of Pattaya Immigration officials.

-SunBelt called some people : it was the 90 days total duration interpretation. But then as now the number of stamps would also be a criterion, no more then 3 visa waiver stamps in any 6 months

-Then, we had another announcement this thursday. Which was a text dated 8 September, pre-dating the Sunday article, even though the article claimed that the changes would be ".. put into effect once approved by the Royal Thai Police Office."

The website of Thai Immigration published a page with the new regulations.

Nation was still silent.

-Then friday (yesterday), the meeting, the official announcement : BKK post published another paper , and Nation the first one.

My point is : today it's really official, even foreign medias started to publish the news. So we can assume that the process of decision making is over.

And we can assume that both Bangkok Post and Nation have had enough time to assess the information.... Agreed, but they are doing a very poor job presenting it or addressing the concerns of their readership, many if not most in Thailand itself. Bangkok Post much quicker at getting out 'US not backing Asian UN Sec. Gen. candidate' even with link!

And both say that it's "3 stamps maximum".

But we are still unsure because many of us think that this system would create a serious blow to "short-timers" (people who come and go to BKK, 1 or 2 days, for business meeting or week ends).

Once again that's the whole issue : we know for sure that visa runs are finished. The only (big) question that remains regarding the new regulations is : total duration 90 days or 3 stamps maximum ?

And still nobody can answer that, with an official statement. It's amazing. Would'nt that make a great slogan....

Confused yet?

Regards

[A_Traveller]

Clearly, what's needed is a very complete/detailed and unambiguous statement directly from Immigration. Not just one or two sentences, but probably paragraphs which include actual examples. Without any concrete examples of who they will permit re-entry and who they won't, I worry any statement will continue to be too ambiguous to be of any real value. Agreed

Attn: Thai Immigration Officials who may be reading this. Please give us several examples of who will and who will not be affected by your new enforcement...

Will a person with 3 stamps and/or 90 cumulative days of multiple stamps be allowed to return without a visa if they first return to a non-neigboring country and then re-enter Thailand, presumably by air?

Link

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/newpro.html

The statement about returning to your country of origin, what does that mean? Is that the country I was born in, or the country I'm a citizen of, or is it the country where I reside and work? In the case of Visa Waiver Scheme entries {30 day stamp} this would be the country which issued the travel documents you are using to enter the Kingdom Or any of the above? If I don't return to my country of origin, but rather a different non-neighboring country, then am I allowed to get a visa and/or re-enter Thailand with just getting a stamp. If this rule which exists for all travellers entering Thailand was enforced then no. However, there is no evidence to show that there is an intention at present to expand this requirement. If I'm not a South Asian tourist, then does all this talk about neigboring countries and country of origin have any bearing on me? Again, lots of real examples are needed to clarify this.

Agree that it is crazy that there was not a fully example laden press pack handed out yesterday.

Regards

/edit spelling//

Edited September 16, 2006 by A_Traveller

[Soju]

The list of users of the visa waiver scheme from the Ministry is for 41 issuing authorites, 40 countries and one administratve region {Hong Kong SAR} Please refer to the link provided for more detail.

Link http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

I just realized something. Brazil and Korean citizens are given 90-day visa waivers. Does this mean they're only allowed one entry? If so, then any information that states visa waivers are limited to 3 entries is obviously mistaken/incomplete. Or perhaps that's where the 39 vs. 41 countries comes into play. If those citizens are only allowed one stamp every six months, then it certainly makes it totally impossible for them to use Thailand as a travel hub unless they go to the hassle of getting a tourist visa first.

So I'm guessing they would be restricted to only two stamps per year. I bet this will really make the airlines servicing the Korea-Thailand routes happy. Frequently when I fly the plane is full of Korean golfers. In Korea the price to play golf is prohbitively expensive. It's cheaper for them to fly to Thailand for an extended weekend of golf rather than playing in their own country. If they're limited to only two trips per year, I'm sure a large percent of them will opt for the Philippines for their golfing trip.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Soju

[zeusbheld]

I personally think that the staying 90 days is the answer to the question. I can't believe that a businessman who comes to Thailand every month and only stays a few days each trip would be denied entrance after 3 trips within three months. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

or the weekend golfers. they make a big fuss on the immigration site about how much discretion immigration officers will have.

this to me implies that while they have the regulations to hang you on if they want to get rid of you, it is unlikely that they'lll count days, or limit weekenders to 3 entries of 3 days each. at airports, they'll most likely flip through your passport to get a sense of whether you appear to be living in thailand and if not, they'll wave you through, no pompem.

a potentially big problem for thailand is not necessarily the impact of the regulations themselves, but in terms of lost revenue from tourism and investment if the western media run with these announcements and thailand is percieved, rightly or wrongly, as 'unstable.'

[visarunner]

This issue is still totally unclear.

Clear is only that regular travellers are allowed 90days stay within 180days.

It does not say if you do 3 visaruns and go out to apply for a visa that 1.you will be issued one

2. that they let you back in.

To my knowledge Koreans ,Brazilians/Chileneans are granted 90days entrystamp , what will happen to them????????????????

Some of my Filipino friends called and said they they got today in Aran 90days stamps in their passport.

Totally confused?

For my part more questions are open than has been answered with the varies post .

[Soju]

a potentially big problem for thailand is not necessarily the impact of the regulations themselves, but in terms of lost revenue from tourism and investment if the western media run with these announcements and thailand is percieved, rightly or wrongly, as 'unstable.'

ABSOLUTELY!!! I was thinking about that a lot yesterday and today but didn't get around to making a post yet. The impact to their tourism industry could be totally devestating if some of the major news networks picked up on the story and decided to sensationalize it, as they often do, or fill it with inaccuracies and half-truths as they often do. Can you imagine if CNN and/or BBC reported that many tourists will be sent home on arrival because their only "crime" was that they liked Thailand too much and visited too often? What about if the Korean News reported that Korean weekend golfers who visit more than twice a year can no longer expect to return. Bye-bye weekend golfers. Or a Singapore newspaper reports that many Singaporeans will soon be banned from taking their favorite weekend trip to Phuket?

Should this happen, whoever it was in the Thai goverment that decided on this brilliant idea, unless it was Thaksin himself, better hope that there's some country out there he can escape to and do endless visa runs himself, because he certainly will be looking at a very difficult life if he remains in Thailand. Even if it's not his intention of implementing the rules as strictly as we fear, any false newsreports, due to to the lack of a clear unambiguous statement, and which cause major damage to Thailand's tourism industry will be enough to doom his career. I repeat again, Thai Immigration desperately needs to make a completed detailed statement with complete examples of who exactly this regulation will effect. Now none of us know what to expect or what to make of all the confilicting reports. Unless you let us know the real situation and do it immediately, you run the risk of causing immense damage to your tourism industry. Once the tourists hear bad news about a particular destination, it will be very difficult and expensive to lure them back again. Especially with Asian tourists who are very well known for just following the crowd. Suddenly a group of them start talking about problems with a particular destination and find a suitable alternative, the masses follow.

[Sunbelt Asia]

-SunBelt called some people : it was the 90 days total duration interpretation.

Sorry but on this. Our source has maintain from the beginning its three stamps ( entries) and not days. This has never changed and is still the case.

Also keep in mind this is in a six month period, not three months like some feel it is.

saw that article earlier, and at first thought it also confirms our worst fears. But some big questions still remain:

1) What was the source of their information in that article? They quote the Immigration Police Chief, but they don't attribute to anyone the part about the 3 stamp limitation. It could have been that the Immigration Police Chief said this, or it could have been that they just read that here on Thai Visa, or elsewhere. Or we don't know how correct their summary is without having direct quotes from Immigration.

2) The phrase "extend their stay" is ambiguous. That could be taken to mean back-to-back stamps, using the full 30 days, with no break (with the term "break" being needed to be defined). If someone enters only for a couple days, then exits, then comes back several weeks later, that could hardly be defined by anyone as "extending their stay".

3) The article then goes one to talk about South Asian tourists, and mentions that they can only get a VOA twice from neigboring countries, then must return to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa. Completely ambiguous language that only serves to muddy the waters further.

Clearly, what's needed is a very complete/detailed and unambiguous statement directly from Immigration. Not just one or two sentences, but probably paragraphs which include actual examples. Without any concrete examples of who they will permit re-entry and who they won't, I worry any statement will continue to be too ambiguous to be of any real value.

Attn: Thai Immigration Officials who may be reading this. Please give us several examples of who will and who will not be affected by your new enforcement...

Will a person who enters Thailand 3 times in one month, each time for only 2 days be prohibited from re-entering for some time? Give us an example of actual dates and the actual period of being prohibited re-entry.

Will a person with 3 stamps and/or 90 cumulative days of multiple stamps be allowed to return without a visa if they first return to a non-neigboring country and then re-enter Thailand, presumably by air?

The statement about returning to your country of origin, what does that mean? Is that the country I was born in, or the country I'm a citizen of, or is it the country where I reside and work? Or any of the above? If I don't return to my country of origin, but rather a different non-neighboring country, then am I allowed to get a visa and/or re-enter Thailand with just getting a stamp. If I'm not a South Asian tourist, then does all this talk about neigboring countries and country of origin have any bearing on me? Again, lots of real examples are needed to clarify this.

Well written post. We know what they are saying in person, but something in official writing with examples would obviously be much better. I'm afraid you'll need to wait a while to get this.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[lamphun]

-SunBelt called some people : it was the 90 days total duration interpretation.

Sorry but on this. Our source has maintain from the beginning its three stamps ( entries) and not days. This has never changed and is still the case.

Also keep in mind this is in a six month period, not three months like some feel it is.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

No offense but you've been quoting a fairly badly written piece from "The Nation". As it stands treating an entry stamp as a 30 day stay doesn't appear logical.

Any chance the immigration department will make a clear statement before the 1st of October ?

[joker]

Another area that has not been spoken about is that of Tourleaders for tourgroups

travelling with their customers around Thailand. This is another 'grey'area, where

sometimes T.P's stop buses or see a Falang 'guiding' people across the street and

go and arrest them.

Nomally, a Tourbus will have a Thai tourguide with it and the Tourleader functions

as a translator / language helper. NONE of these people have a W.P. for this job.

They might well have gotten a Non-b in their homelands but the company they work for

operates alot the same as at schools.

Point is, (and the Thais/T.P. know it) for most tours a Tourleader is essential!

How many Thais speak Danish, Dutch, Russian, Italian etc. very few. Despite the 'modern' times,

many people from these countries cannot understand English enough to have only an

Thai English speaking guide.

So, toursgroups are important for the Thai economy, so I wonder what will happen here now?

[ovenman]

-SunBelt called some people : it was the 90 days total duration interpretation.

Sorry but on this. Our source has maintain from the beginning its three stamps ( entries) and not days. This has never changed and is still the case.

That might be your source's understanding of the policy but even with the philosophy of TIT in mind, it's really hard to imagine this is correct. This would in effect be telling the Asian golfer tourists from Singapore, Japan, Korea, etc., that they are only welcome in Thailand three times every six months. I honestly can't believe that this is anybody's intention but then again... TIT.

[Sunbelt Asia]

[

No offense but you've been quoting a fairly badly written piece from "The Nation". As it stands treating an entry stamp as a 30 day stay doesn't appear logical.

Any chance the immigration department will make a clear statement before the 1st of October ?

Here is the logic that has been explained. When you enter Thailand, you are given a 30 day stamp. If you stay only one hour, this was your choice but you had the right to stay up to 30 days. That 30 day right counts against your quota of three entries.

Now could a change take place? Yes but that’s the way it is now, and what they are trying to say.

I would also state that if they don't make it clearer, some Immigration officials will be counting days and other will be counting stamps at other checkpoints.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[singa-traz]

[

No offense but you've been quoting a fairly badly written piece from "The Nation". As it stands treating an entry stamp as a 30 day stay doesn't appear logical.

Any chance the immigration department will make a clear statement before the 1st of October ?

Here is the logic that has been explained. When you enter Thailand, you are given a 30 day stamp. If you stay only one hour, this was your choice but you had the right to stay up to 30 days. That 30 day right counts against your quota of three entries.

Now could a change take place? Yes but that’s the way it is now, and what they are trying to say.

I would also state that if they don't make it clearer, some Immigration officials will be counting days and other will be counting stamps at other checkpoints.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

The regular businessman from Singapore are ging to appreciate ...

[cclub75]

-SunBelt called some people : it was the 90 days total duration interpretation.

Sorry but on this. Our source has maintain from the beginning its three stamps ( entries) and not days. This has never changed and is still the case.

Also keep in mind this is in a six month period, not three months like some feel it is.

Fair enough.

So you agree too that it's the 3 stamps interpretation that (still) has the lead (in this crazy race)...

That's a big news. And like a semi official confirmation, due to your constant work on that matter since one week.

That's the way the medias put it too.

However, it's not crystal clear on the page on the Immigration website.

I agree with the policy to stop the perpetual visa run. However, the 3 stamps limitation is going to create a serious blow for business. It was so convenient to be able to say : "OK see you in Bangkok tomorrow" for very short visits...

[Sunbelt Asia]

Fair enough.

So you agree too that it's the 3 stamps interpretation that (still) has the lead (in this crazy race)...

That's a big news. And like a semi official confirmation, due to your constant work on that matter since one week.

That's the way the medias put it too.

However, it's not crystal clear on the page on the Immigration website.

I agree with the policy to stop the perpetual visa run. However, the 3 stamps limitation is going to create a serious blow for business. It was so convenient to be able to say : "OK see you in Bangkok tomorrow" for very short visits...

It in fact has a big lead. Nothing has changed day by day on that view. This is what they have been saying from the start "3 entries in 6 months"

However, if you look at the writing, it is far from crystal clear as you state.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[jdinasia]

Sunbelt ... and when does the count start?

<IE ---- on Oct 1st do they look at the next entry being #1?>

Edited September 16, 2006 by jdinasia

[sjaak327]

Fair enough.

So you agree too that it's the 3 stamps interpretation that (still) has the lead (in this crazy race)...

That's a big news. And like a semi official confirmation, due to your constant work on that matter since one week.

That's the way the medias put it too.

However, it's not crystal clear on the page on the Immigration website.

I agree with the policy to stop the perpetual visa run. However, the 3 stamps limitation is going to create a serious blow for business. It was so convenient to be able to say : "OK see you in Bangkok tomorrow" for very short visits...

It in fact has a big lead. Nothing has changed day by day on that view. This is what they have been saying from the start "3 entries in 6 months"

However, if you look at the writing, it is far from crystal clear as you state.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Right, so we have some sources that talk about three stamps, (your immigration lead and the article in the Nation). Yet that legal text you posted under antother thread states:

Royal Thai Police

Order No. 608 / 2549

Subject: An authorization for permission to foreigners that are exempted from the Visa requirements to stay temporarily in the Kingdom of Thailand.

3. According the Article 13 (3) of the Ministerial Regulation which stipulated the criterions, practices and conditions regarding the verification, exception and the changes in the visa requirements B.E. 2545 (2002) dated on 16th August B.E. 2545 (2002), within six months period, the holder of passport or substitutive documents which issued by any country that is approved by the Minister of the Interior, under the approval of the Cabinet, to enter to temporarily stay in Thailand for tourism purpose, shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times. Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

Several times but not exceeding 90 days, would be the key here.

So we have two contradicting reports.

Now, what is it now ? Clearly if it is going to be three stamps in 6 months, they are going to put a big dent in their tourism industry. Go figure how many people are affected by that measure.

If they are going to implement it according to order 608 (quoted above), then the only people who are going to be affected are the visa runners, which is clearly the intend based upon articles published in the Nation and the Post.

I appreciate that counting days is not going to be easy, but they should upgrade all borders to have access to the immigration database, so that actual counting days would be as easy as entering the passport number into the computer, actually it would be usefull with counting stamps as well.

Can we expect an official statement soon, explaining if it's going to be counting days, or stamps ?

Edited September 16, 2006 by sjaak327

[Sunbelt Asia]

<IE ---- on Oct 1st do they look at the next entry being #1?>

This is our understanding.

this seems to confirm it.

http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/ff...hailand.do.html

From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas

Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

The Immigration website says the same

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/newpro.html

90 days... but the logic they have is 90 days that you are granted.

You use only one day out of 30 days, still counts as 30 days as you were granted that right. So the logic is no confusion.

I know people don't want to hear it. I understand that. I wish they would make it clearer on the website as well.

Here is from the same article which quotes Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, he head of the bureau,

http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/ff...hailand.do.html

and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.

Other press seem to be saying the same thing

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navcl...24841&hl=en

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Clip_My_Wings]

<IE ---- on Oct 1st do they look at the next entry being #1?>

This is our understanding.

this seems to confirm it.

http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/ff...hailand.do.html

From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas

Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

The Immigration website says the same

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/newpro.html

90 days... but the logic they have is 90 days that you are granted.

You use only one day out of 30 days, still counts as 30 days as you were granted that right. So the logic is no confusion.

I know people don't want to hear it. I understand that. I wish they would make it clearer on the website as well.

Here is from the same article which quotes Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, he head of the bureau,

http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/ff...hailand.do.html

and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.

Other press seem to be saying the same thing

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navcl...24841&hl=en

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

sorry but this is not clear .... lets forget what the press reports as they seem as confused as the rest of us .. but the official document says SEVERAL times and not more than 90 days in 6 months ...

now forgive me for being stupid but if the 3 VOA was the official line wouldnt it say 3 and not several ???

if it is 3 strikes and your out i expect and lot of friction at the airports and a quick review to goto the 90 days rule instead

i suspect we willl see how this will all unfold after october 1st ...

must just say that the press and relation department of thai immigration should be officially sacked for this whole fiasco as has already been said the confusion will almost definately cause people not to book flights here

idiots

[lung]

... some Immigration officials will be counting days and other will be counting stamps at other checkpoints.

[david96]

Let us look at some examples and how travellers may be affected by the new immigration requirements, entry stamp 30 days.

1 The traveller who travels to Bangkok once a month for 3 days every month, he/she is a genuine tourist. He /she will have 12 entry stamps in a year.

2 The tourist who comes to Thailand and stays a total of 44 days and then leaves for 44 days, then returns for 44 days. He/she does not have 90 days in 180.

3 The tourist who stays 30 days and does 2 visa runs a total of 90 days.

1 and 2 are not affected by the new requirements, 3 is affected and either has to stay out of the country for 90 days or get a 60 day tourist visa from a Thai Consulate.and one should not forget the financial requirements that may be enforced on entry /re-entry to Thailand.

The genuine tourist will not be affected.