Thailand to upgrade fleet, chooses Chinese to provide three submarines

[Muirton]

"Three Chinese-made submarines worth 355 million dollars each may be purchased by Thailand"

It's fun to see dramatic headlines then read a bit to come across words like "may", "provisional", "draft".

Thailand's military hardware is a joke at every level, most of the junk bought before most Thais were born. There is no Army, no Air Force, no Thai Navy at the professional level. Killing civilians is all this "Army" does.

[Just1Voice]

I think someone heard that an "invasion" of Thailand by Antarctic penguins is planned, so they definitely need the subs for protection.

[cmiuc]

Quote "According to the source, the committee voted to buy the Chinese submarines because they are "equipped with superior weaponry and technology..." I guess Germany is still making U-boats and they didn't look pretty for Thai Military...

Speaking of Chinese wonderful craftsmanship.... remember that Chinese computer or equipment you bought that broke the first time around? "these subs look promising"... for Chinese workmanship... (just like when you lean on a car these days...and it dents like paper... "so guys don't lean on the sub"

In the states, we have stores called "1 dollar" stores... all the crap is from guess where... so that sounds fun to be stuck in a claustrophobic space and it can't resurface because it broke... and it can't get up....

[Traveling Sailor]

Initially it was one submarine, now when the Chinese say: hey YOU Thai man, I have these

last 3 subs I want sell, I make you special price, you buy man?

Yes, and the Chinese will make sure that there are tracking devices installed in all three subs so the Chinese Navy will know where these subs are, 24/7/365.

[cmiuc]

I think someone heard that an "invasion" of Thailand by Antarctic penguins is planned, so they definitely need the subs for protection.

to get some ice cubes to stop the drought...

[halloween]

"Three Chinese-made submarines worth 355 million dollars each may be purchased by Thailand"

It's fun to see dramatic headlines then read a bit to come across words like "may", "provisional", "draft".

Thailand's military hardware is a joke at every level, most of the junk bought before most Thais were born. There is no Army, no Air Force, no Thai Navy at the professional level. Killing civilians is all this "Army" does.

So you're moaning because they aren't wasting taxpayer's money?

[cmiuc]

I thought the coastal sea wasn't deep enough for effective use of a submarine. Dive dive dive, take her down another 30 cms.... in fact subs look cool and as fishery protection vessels they may be slightly (!) over kill but heck childrens toys should be cool...

imagine when they get the subs, since its just 'Thais' the 4th recycled steel that is paper thin... you think it can go down 30 cms without denting in? be like a aluminum can when you flatten it with your hands...

[John1012]

Why does Thailand need submarines and an aircraft carrier (without aitcraft)?

[cmiuc]

"Three Chinese-made submarines worth 355 million dollars each may be purchased by Thailand"

It's fun to see dramatic headlines then read a bit to come across words like "may", "provisional", "draft".

Thailand's military hardware is a joke at every level, most of the junk bought before most Thais were born. There is no Army, no Air Force, no Thai Navy at the professional level. Killing civilians is all this "Army" does.

So you're moaning because they aren't wasting taxpayer's money?

hehe, not from thai budget... but from foreigner tourism, including support from South Korea and Germany... Foreigners money-----> Govt' ------> Subs

[rockyysdt]

Sure, there is a lot of sub standard stuff coming out of China.

They are also capable of world class goods as well.

Apple and Samsung smartphones, Panasonic TV,S.

A supplier indicated that it's up to the customer as to the build quality specified.

If you are a supplier and want to sell crap then that is your budget and spec.

An independent comparo I viewed on Swiss watch movement vs Chinese watch movement concluded the latter as more accurate and superior.

Apart from the gold and precious stone content you can now buy copy watches almost undetectable to the original at 20% of the price.

Again there are crap watches around but this comes back to the spec involved.

Further, due to cyber espionage, Chinese have stolen leading edge military technology and are building hardware superior to that of the U.S. in many instances.

For example the JST F35 is a dog.

Chinese stole its design and said make our version only with better specs.

Edited June 26, 2015 by rockyysdt

[joebrown]

There is one positive result from the purchase of the submarines..........it'll be a lot quieter on the 3 Sattahip military golf courses if the currently 'redundant' submariners and officers are put into gainful employment!

Edited June 26, 2015 by joebrown

[MockingJay]

Wow - subs from China... Will they come with those funny instruction manuals and a flashy display box saying something like, "Beautiful and diving subwater boat, great fun and learning for war!" and warning messages like, "Not to crash into rock for might explode!" ?

Edited June 26, 2015 by MockingJay

[oneday]

Any money they save will be spent looking for spy devices and override controls, let alone fixing all the break-downs due to poor quality.

[tbthailand]

why don't they make them for themselves ?

oh I forgot, Thailand can't actually design and make anything for themselves - vehicles - electronics - infrastructure - heavy industry - railroads - aircraft - Pharma all of which are foreign technologies - they are the hub of wishful thinking all resulting from misdirected funds/corruption and an underfunded inept education system, the only thing they are good at is abusing tourists and greed

- 3rd world

They make good som tam, and counterfeit watches, clothes and DVDs actually, maybe this all comes from China too!! 5555

hey, be fair, the som tam is not from china and it's pretty darn tasty, too.

[tbthailand]

Submarines for Thailand...

from one of the countries which supports the "intervention"...

$335 million each...

nothing to see here... move along...

The PM is cleaning up corruption...

[Local Drunk]

Subs... the best way to move the Rohingya.

[Yann55]

So they're not buying American or European submarines ? I wonder why ...

Edited June 26, 2015 by Yann55

[poohy]

Upgrade? Do they actually already have a submarine ??

[ddavidovsky]

It's amazing what you can get from AliExpress nowadays.

[Yann55]

Quote "According to the source, the committee voted to buy the Chinese submarines because they are "equipped with superior weaponry and technology..." I guess Germany is still making U-boats and they didn't look pretty for Thai Military...

Speaking of Chinese wonderful craftsmanship.... remember that Chinese computer or equipment you bought that broke the first time around? "these subs look promising"... for Chinese workmanship... (just like when you lean on a car these days...and it dents like paper... "so guys don't lean on the sub"

In the states, we have stores called "1 dollar" stores... all the crap is from guess where... so that sounds fun to be stuck in a claustrophobic space and it can't resurface because it broke... and it can't get up....

I've read a fair number of very dumb comments on this Forum (and some great ones too, to be fair), but this one really makes the top 10 in the field, of idiocy, prejudice and ignorance. Combined, they obviously produce the finest in Western clichés about China.

The US manufactures all kinds of products, from the best to the ch*ttiest, simply because it's a capitalistic economy, which by nature caters for all markets and guess what, it's the same in China. This poster doesn't even seem to know that some of the finest quality products labelled 'American' are actually made in China, Apple Iphones being one of the many. So yes, they can make highly sophisticated stuff. Go to Shanghai and see how things work there.

So, why do so many mediocre Chinese products find their way to the Western market ? Because 'we' buy them. In this case we're the idiots, and they're just using this system called capitalism, which was invented in ... ? we all know where.

[Fat Haggis]

"Chinese submarines .......... able to stay underwater longer."

No doubt. How good are they at re-surfacing?

Although weaponry and endurance important, the most critical factor is detectably.

If the enemy can track you it's all over.

It depends on what you want to use them for: For hunting illegal traffic, fishing etc even the most noisy one will be good enough, but it should be long time invisible.

If you fight against Cambodia, I doubt they are good in detecting subs. If fighting against China, USA or Russia it wouldn't matter as well, so detectable would matter only against maybe Malaysia which isn't as bad as Cambodia and not as good as USA.

Are you for real?

submarines, especially diesel ones need to surface regularly unlike nuclear subs, they would be sunk within minutes as there's nowhere to hide in the Gulf of Siam, it's too shallow, so whoever the Thais are wanting to hide from, have no where to actually hide.

If they're going to use them for anti fishing, then it's a 300billion baht white elephants, they need to surface and intercept these fishing boats, then they need to launch a boarding party (VBSS) to actually board the vessel !!

Why waste money on Subs, when Fast attack boats capable of doing 40 knots are more manoeuvrable and lower maintenence, and will be easier to support VBSS operations?

[rockyysdt]

Does Thailand have a "White Paper"?

A policy document outlining the military requirements.

With this, one can then comment on whether submarine procurement is valid.

[VINCENT2012]

i understand now why chinese buy the thai rice...., and in return they'll buy those 3 submarine who wont make any diference anyway, just look on the news every day how obsolete is their military equipment they like to show every day on tv.

1065 milion dolar that could be use to renovate a big part of the country like schools, hospitals, roads etc etc ...!

when are people are going to start thinking that military expensise is the worst for the well being of a country.it is only a wast of money for nothing in return.

in my opinion of course

[EnglishJohn]

why don't they make them for themselves ?

oh I forgot, Thailand can't actually design and make anything for themselves - vehicles - electronics - infrastructure - heavy industry - railroads - aircraft - Pharma all of which are foreign technologies - they are the hub of wishful thinking all resulting from misdirected funds/corruption and an underfunded inept education system, the only thing they are good at is abusing tourists and greed

- 3rd world

Absolutely right : Thailand is incapable of any complicated project which involves R&D because when the R&D should be finished and the experience used for a real project, you quickly discover that 'R&D' involved buying off-the-shelf stuff from abroad and parading it around as if it was made locally, then skimming the rest of the budget as much as possible with fake family employees etc. When crunch time comes and something should be available, the school-project held together with string and tape does not impress and the project is scrapped as a total loss.

I did some tentative research about bringing my UAV related business here. I have the above take place more than once and decided to keep it out. I realised that any farang will be the first place the locals try to lay the blame.

[elgordo38]

Lets just hope they are all diesel or we could be in big trouble.

[sammygood]

a cold billion dollar for 3 toys ...

training & crew in chinese ?

[Emster23]

With three you get eggroll.

I would prefer government throw money in rice pledging schemes much more than this cash cow for certain members of ruling military. At least some trickles down to the people.... Doesn't seem to matter regarding ethics (or lack thereof) of which group is in power, just who will get the money bled from the populace.

[geriatrickid]

But how will the Thai military use submarines against their own people? More guns, rubber bullets and wire ties would be more useful.

Let me guess, you live in Isaan. Down here in the more salubrious coastal areas, we have ferries, fishing boats, cruise liners, merchant marine and other targets of opportunity. OTOH, we see the military more as protection from mercenary thugs.

You are misrepresenting the actual characteristics of the ocean/sea regions, none of which require or need submarines for enforcement or surveillance or rescue work. The mercenary thugs seem to operate with the full knowledge and approval of the Thai authorities.Let's review;

- A ferry and taxi boat system that is essentially unregulated because there is little or no enforcement of safety regulations.

- Human traffickers who allegedly are linked to the military

- Smugglers who operate freely

- The jet ski mobsters, particularly in Phuket who operate with the support of the Marine 5 police region

No country relies on a submarine to conduct fishery inspections, rescue operations or other activity. The money would be better spent buying 10-20 more coastal and ocean going vessels. Those vessels would respond better the issues identified above.

Thailand does not face a threat form foreign invaders. Thailand is not known as a country which neither enforces or supports responsible fishery practice or responsible management of the seas, i.e. no dumping of toxic waste. Do you think Thailand will start once it gets 3 Chinese submarines?

How exactly would a submarine be used to enforce the regulations against slave labour on the fishing boats or the fishing in restricted zones?

The waters off of Thailand are not very deep. Hardly ideal operating areas for submarines. Have you noticed that there is no mention of salvage tugs or supply vessels or the equipping and training of specialty divers? The failure to invest in that equipment and personnel would be irresponsible. All submarine fleets require expensive support assets and no mention is made. In the event of a catastrophe, are the crews and submarines just written off or will Thailand expect someone else to come rescue them?

The admirals get some new toys which will fall into disrepair within a few years.

Edited June 26, 2015 by geriatrickid

[Fat Haggis]

If these subs are as "advanced" as they claim, it would take a good couple of years minimum to train a crew in all these systems to be at least efficient.

Which poses the question have the RTN already sent Submariners to Chima to learn how to operate.

Have all the systems in here subs been converted from mandarin to Thai?

Will the skippers be Thais or Chinese "advisors" ?

[saakura]

Almost billion dollars for the purchase, then the maintenance and supplies contracts for years to come which could be worth more. Thankfully, very honest people are in control of the country now, so it is reassuring that no corruption will be involved.