Govt. vows to find alternative sources of energy to reduce imports

[eliotness]

I've seen in remote farms in the Karoo in South Africa, where farms with no access to a mains supply, have a bank of solar panels and a windmill. Sure they need a diesel generator as back-up, but it is looking much more sustainable than here in Thailand. If you mix that technology with village biofuel generation, as you suggest, then you would be well on the way for rural sustainability. I feel the government investing in such ideas would benefit the rural population much more than throwing millions of baht at agriculture, when it's the big land owners and middlemen who seem to get all the money. Not too sure about burning plastic waste though as you'll need to achieve a higher temp to minimise toxins. Much better to push a anti-plastic bag campaign.

But of course one could add, if the stories are true we will be seeing fracking for shale gas in the the Karoo in the near future, as its reputed to be the 8th largest reserve of shale gas in the world

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your view on fracking, the South African governments gross incompetence

and the fall in the price of oil has put that on hold. I guess, from experience the ANC will ignore any protests from the farmers (who are mainly white Afrikaners) and environmentalists should the likes of Shell renew their interest.

Just as an aside if the posters think Thailand's governments are bad, Southern African countries have suffered for many decades from a scale of corrupt and/or incompetence that was, and still is mind-blowing.

given the load shedding going on, they need to do something, ESKOM the biggest power supplier at one time on the African continent cant keep the lights on a home these days

Did you ever see the pollution put out by ESKOM's coal fired power stations ? Shocking ! made worse because they were burning high sulphur coal. I'm not sure what the intention is for extracting shale gas. Electricity generation is probably the most likely if ESKOM are involved, but as over half the population can't, will not or never have paid for their electricity seems a waste of money or just a political ploy. Please Thailand look and learn, do not repeat mistakes made elsewhere.

[halloween]

Wind and solar... words... show me how you do it...

With 100 rai, planted with bamboo, i can generate 200 Kwh 24/24 7/7 electric power, can be done in the community, by the people off the community...

no need for import, no need for deep pockets and big company's...

Green waste as secondary fuel...

Waste plastic as supplementary fuel...

even can reuse the Co2 into energy...

All done with material local available ...

I don't know your qualifications, but if you are suggesting you can generate 200kW every hour (~900 MWh/year) from 100 rai of bamboo, you are deluded. There is simply not that much sunlight energy falling on 100 rai per year.

OTOH if you suggest the annual output is 200kWh (~0.5 kWh/day, total value <B8000) with all the associated labour, maintenance and capital costs, why would you bother?

CO₂ into energy is a lab experiment. You can't burn it, it is fully oxidised, but if you pump it through water it generates a tiny amount of electricity. The 600MW units I worked on had 2 huge high-voltage electric motors driving fans to blow it up a stack. Pumping it through water would require far more energy than anything produced.

[halloween]

I've seen in remote farms in the Karoo in South Africa, where farms with no access to a mains supply, have a bank of solar panels and a windmill. Sure they need a diesel generator as back-up, but it is looking much more sustainable than here in Thailand. If you mix that technology with village biofuel generation, as you suggest, then you would be well on the way for rural sustainability. I feel the government investing in such ideas would benefit the rural population much more than throwing millions of baht at agriculture, when it's the big land owners and middlemen who seem to get all the money. Not too sure about burning plastic waste though as you'll need to achieve a higher temp to minimise toxins. Much better to push a anti-plastic bag campaign.

Yes if you installed all those systems, at huge capital cost, you might nearly generate enough for a small village, as long as they don't mind sitting around in the dark quite a bit of the time. OTOH you could hook them up to the grid and sell them energy at <B4/kWh.

[eliotness]

I've seen in remote farms in the Karoo in South Africa, where farms with no access to a mains supply, have a bank of solar panels and a windmill. Sure they need a diesel generator as back-up, but it is looking much more sustainable than here in Thailand. If you mix that technology with village biofuel generation, as you suggest, then you would be well on the way for rural sustainability. I feel the government investing in such ideas would benefit the rural population much more than throwing millions of baht at agriculture, when it's the big land owners and middlemen who seem to get all the money. Not too sure about burning plastic waste though as you'll need to achieve a higher temp to minimise toxins. Much better to push a anti-plastic bag campaign.

Yes if you installed all those systems, at huge capital cost, you might nearly generate enough for a small village, as long as they don't mind sitting around in the dark quite a bit of the time. OTOH you could hook them up to the grid and sell them energy at <B4/kWh.

Please, I said it would "put them well on the way for rural sustainability" not totally.

Your cost argument should be mitigated my scale. N.B. Mr PM what about making Thailand the hub of low cost solar cell production and/or household wind turbines ???

Yeah I know "pipe dreaming again", but I'm not saying ditch technology and return to the middle ages. We need to (to quote a phrase from an organisation most of you will never have heard of) ADOPT, ADAPT and IMPROVE.

[masquerade]

Methane is the way to go, there is more than enough raw product in this country to process.

[halloween]

Methane is the way to go, there is more than enough raw product in this country to process.

All we need to do is get everybody to carry around a collector tank, with a hose running to their anal insert. And promote cabbage eating.

[halloween]

I've seen in remote farms in the Karoo in South Africa, where farms with no access to a mains supply, have a bank of solar panels and a windmill. Sure they need a diesel generator as back-up, but it is looking much more sustainable than here in Thailand. If you mix that technology with village biofuel generation, as you suggest, then you would be well on the way for rural sustainability. I feel the government investing in such ideas would benefit the rural population much more than throwing millions of baht at agriculture, when it's the big land owners and middlemen who seem to get all the money. Not too sure about burning plastic waste though as you'll need to achieve a higher temp to minimise toxins. Much better to push a anti-plastic bag campaign.

Yes if you installed all those systems, at huge capital cost, you might nearly generate enough for a small village, as long as they don't mind sitting around in the dark quite a bit of the time. OTOH you could hook them up to the grid and sell them energy at <B4/kWh.

Please, I said it would "put them well on the way for rural sustainability" not totally.

Your cost argument should be mitigated my scale. N.B. Mr PM what about making Thailand the hub of low cost solar cell production and/or household wind turbines ???

Yeah I know "pipe dreaming again", but I'm not saying ditch technology and return to the middle ages. We need to (to quote a phrase from an organisation most of you will never have heard of) ADOPT, ADAPT and IMPROVE.

the point you are missing is that energy produced this way is hugely expensive. There is simply no incentive for poor people to waste their scant resources to satisfy some (relatively) rich person's ideals of sustainability.

[kovaltech]

Wind and solar... words... show me how you do it...

With 100 rai, planted with bamboo, i can generate 200 Kwh 24/24 7/7 electric power, can be done in the community, by the people off the community...

no need for import, no need for deep pockets and big company's...

Green waste as secondary fuel...

Waste plastic as supplementary fuel...

even can reuse the Co2 into energy...

All done with material local available ...

I don't know your qualifications, but if you are suggesting you can generate 200kW every hour (~900 MWh/year) from 100 rai of bamboo, you are deluded. There is simply not that much sunlight energy falling on 100 rai per year.

OTOH if you suggest the annual output is 200kWh (~0.5 kWh/day, total value <B8000) with all the associated labour, maintenance and capital costs, why would you bother?

CO₂ into energy is a lab experiment. You can't burn it, it is fully oxidised, but if you pump it through water it generates a tiny amount of electricity. The 600MW units I worked on had 2 huge high-voltage electric motors driving fans to blow it up a stack. Pumping it through water would require far more energy than anything produced.

halloween...

never heard about gasification ? bamboo yields 5 times more then eucalyptus.

Co2 into energy... lab experiment ? www.facebook.com/renewableenergythailand

oh, yes, qualifications... i hold the patents for the co2 converter... awards for the plastic waste to energy.. and many more...

bottom line... do it. and make it fit so people can afford it...

[kovaltech]

I've seen in remote farms in the Karoo in South Africa, where farms with no access to a mains supply, have a bank of solar panels and a windmill. Sure they need a diesel generator as back-up, but it is looking much more sustainable than here in Thailand. If you mix that technology with village biofuel generation, as you suggest, then you would be well on the way for rural sustainability. I feel the government investing in such ideas would benefit the rural population much more than throwing millions of baht at agriculture, when it's the big land owners and middlemen who seem to get all the money. Not too sure about burning plastic waste though as you'll need to achieve a higher temp to minimise toxins. Much better to push a anti-plastic bag campaign.

Yes if you installed all those systems, at huge capital cost, you might nearly generate enough for a small village, as long as they don't mind sitting around in the dark quite a bit of the time. OTOH you could hook them up to the grid and sell them energy at <B4/kWh.

Please, I said it would "put them well on the way for rural sustainability" not totally.

Your cost argument should be mitigated my scale. N.B. Mr PM what about making Thailand the hub of low cost solar cell production and/or household wind turbines ???

Yeah I know "pipe dreaming again", but I'm not saying ditch technology and return to the middle ages. We need to (to quote a phrase from an organisation most of you will never have heard of) ADOPT, ADAPT and IMPROVE.

the point you are missing is that energy produced this way is hugely expensive. There is simply no incentive for poor people to waste their scant resources to satisfy some (relatively) rich person's ideals of sustainability.

the cost is neglectible...modular system possible

the profit for the community is high ROI < 1 year, plus a job for 8 people and the community generates the fuel for the system for a good price/income

system local build by themselves

no more burning down fields

no more waste burning

[kovaltech]

Methane is the way to go, there is more than enough raw product in this country to process.

yes, it surely is one off the ways to go

-biodigester

-landfill gas

-gasification

[halloween]

the point you are missing is that energy produced this way is hugely expensive. There is simply no incentive for poor people to waste their scant resources to satisfy some (relatively) rich person's ideals of sustainability.

the cost is neglectible...modular system possible

the profit for the community is high ROI < 1 year, plus a job for 8 people and the community generates the fuel for the system for a good price/income

system local build by themselves

no more burning down fields

no more waste burning

8 people @B8000/m = B768,000/y = 192MWh @B4/MWh and that is ignoring capital cost. How many thousands of Thai homes would that supply?

Please stop with your green dreams and admit that poor people don't want them at the price offered.

[halloween]

Methane is the way to go, there is more than enough raw product in this country to process.

yes, it surely is one off the ways to go

-biodigester

-landfill gas

-gasification

Some years ago, a Sydney landfill was capped and the captured methane burned in a converted V8 motor driving a generator. The value of the energy produced didn't cover the maintenance costs, let alone the cost of setting it up. The "green" council was voted out partly at least on the evidence of a huge waste of money.

[kovaltech]

the point you are missing is that energy produced this way is hugely expensive. There is simply no incentive for poor people to waste their scant resources to satisfy some (relatively) rich person's ideals of sustainability.

the cost is neglectible...modular system possible

the profit for the community is high ROI < 1 year, plus a job for 8 people and the community generates the fuel for the system for a good price/income

system local build by themselves

no more burning down fields

no more waste burning

8 people @B8000/m = B768,000/y = 192MWh @B4/MWh and that is ignoring capital cost. How many thousands of Thai homes would that supply?

Please stop with your green dreams and admit that poor people don't want them at the price offered.

Total cost per Kwh produced ( including staff and fuel ) = 4,15 Bath

Sold to the grid with all the subventions = 8,32 bath /Kwh

Project data:

200 Kwh / 24/7 / 365 days a year with a 70% effective rate = 1226400 Kwh

Costs; 1226400*4,15 = 5089560

Income; 1226400*8,32 = 10203648

I would say : thats a nice profit for the community...plus the extra subventions for the use of plastic waste ( not calculated yet )

[halloween]

Total cost per Kwh produced ( including staff and fuel ) = 4,15 Bath

Sold to the grid with all the subventions = 8,32 bath /Kwh

Project data:

200 Kwh / 24/7 / 365 days a year with a 70% effective rate = 1226400 Kwh

Costs; 1226400*4,15 = 5089560

Income; 1226400*8,32 = 10203648

I would say : thats a nice profit for the community...plus the extra subventions for the use of plastic waste ( not calculated yet )

Well I hate to piss on your parade, old son, but your wholesale production cost is quite high. Luckily for you, you are being paid nearly 3 times the value of your energy, so while your community makes a "nice profit" other communities are paying extra to cover your subsidy.

The retail price of electricity here is <B4/kWh (last time I looked), yet you are being paid more than B8. Why? Because some politician with no knowledge of electricity generation, and no concern over costs, thought it was a vote winner. Take away the subsidy and where are you?

Edited June 28, 2015 by halloween

[Derek M]

Some nice green idea put around here, do you really think locals will take care of something that is built for give to them?

Bejesus...out in the sticks you can hardly get water..no where is there fresh drinking water in their homes, unless it is bottled,

and quite often by nestle!

[Derek M]

Fill the Gulf of Thailand with wind mills, that'll attract tourists NOT.

Did not affect Spain and their tourism.

[Soutpeel]

Fill the Gulf of Thailand with wind mills, that'll attract tourists NOT.

Did not affect Spain and their tourism.

one suspects not enough wind in the gulf of Thailand anyway

[kovaltech]

Total cost per Kwh produced ( including staff and fuel ) = 4,15 Bath

Sold to the grid with all the subventions = 8,32 bath /Kwh

Project data:

200 Kwh / 24/7 / 365 days a year with a 70% effective rate = 1226400 Kwh

Costs; 1226400*4,15 = 5089560

Income; 1226400*8,32 = 10203648

I would say : thats a nice profit for the community...plus the extra subventions for the use of plastic waste ( not calculated yet )

Well I hate to piss on your parade, old son, but your wholesale production cost is quite high. Luckily for you, you are being paid nearly 3 times the value of your energy, so while your community makes a "nice profit" other communities are paying extra to cover your subsidy.

The retail price of electricity here is <B4/kWh (last time I looked), yet you are being paid more than B8. Why? Because some politician with no knowledge of electricity generation, and no concern over costs, thought it was a vote winner. Take away the subsidy and where are you?

@ halloween... did you know that the solar farms get 10,5 bath per Kwh ? and that is imported tech...

one problem with solar tech dough... it does not take away the problem from green waste burn off, fermentation from rotten fruit... garbage gas...

so thats why i decided to DO something about it and HELP some poor folks...

Another idea for generating electric... using the wind from the mouths of the talkers... based on the amount of wind made on TVF, we probably could support whole Bangkok with electricity...

Or putting a generator on every keystroke they make ;-)

So, a lot of talking, but who is actually doing ? show me what you did... not tell me what you read on the internet

[kovaltech]

Some nice green idea put around here, do you really think locals will take care of something that is built for give to them?

Bejesus...out in the sticks you can hardly get water..no where is there fresh drinking water in their homes, unless it is bottled,

and quite often by nestle!

Anyhow Derek, they have drinking water and people making their living with it.

Also, the energy to make drinking water and then use it to flush your toilet ( as we do in our country's).. they don't waste that energy ;-)

[kovaltech]

For sure it's crucial for Thailand to maintain old dependencies on non-renewable energy sources and look into different ways of reinventing wheels while looking at the surrounding water and inland waterways for more important concerns like submarine toys

"Hydrokinetic technologies producing renewable electricity by harnessing the kinetic energy of a body of water and the energy that results from its motion. Since water is 832 times denser than air, our tides, waves, ocean currents, and free-flowing rivers represent an untapped, powerful, highly-concentrated and clean energy resource"

(from Union of concerned Scientists, How Hydrokinetic Energy Works)

@ Silent, yes that is probably one off the cleanest solutions at any scale...

Living here near the Mekong river, that is a huge waste of potential of energy not used...

Thank you for the idea. Do you know any source for building small scale for farmers ?

[eliotness]

Fill the Gulf of Thailand with wind mills, that'll attract tourists NOT.

Did not affect Spain and their tourism.

one suspects not enough wind in the gulf of Thailand anyway

I come from a part of Britain that was once beautiful, yes you TVF critics there are actually beautiful parts of Britain, okay not many, but there are some. The hills and coastline are now filled with windmills. The once scenery adored by poets has been desecrated. The governments subsidy to land owners, and yes all the shore lines belong to some Lord or Duke, has cost the tax payer millions.

How much power has Spain generated from their windmills ? Not much I suspect. Are they onshore or offshore ? I suspect most tourists are not in Spain for the natural scenery, but ooops that probably applies to Thailand too. Silly me !

[kovaltech]

Fill the Gulf of Thailand with wind mills, that'll attract tourists NOT.

Did not affect Spain and their tourism.

one suspects not enough wind in the gulf of Thailand anyway

I come from a part of Britain that was once beautiful, yes you TVF critics there are actually beautiful parts of Britain, okay not many, but there are some. The hills and coastline are now filled with windmills. The once scenery adored by poets has been desecrated. The governments subsidy to land owners, and yes all the shore lines belong to some Lord or Duke, has cost the tax payer millions.

How much power has Spain generated from their windmills ? Not much I suspect. Are they onshore or offshore ? I suspect most tourists are not in Spain for the natural scenery, but ooops that probably applies to Thailand too. Silly me !

Not to mention the costs, besides the taxpayers money, for the environment and the local economy...

On the total live span from a windmill, including all costs... try to downscale a windmill to your own needs or even community needs... not feasible... but only good for some big investors who get the subventions...

[kovaltech]

ok, i start with new bamboo...

planting today, it will be ready for harvesting in 3 years

1 kg bamboo ( dry mass) will have eaten 1,2 Kg Carbon dioxide and released 0,8Kg Oxygen in the nature again

1 Kg dry mass contains 44% Carbon, to be used to generate energy in the gasification process.

For generating 1 Kwh it needs 0,124 kg Charcoal ( from bamboo)

1 bamboo stem gives you approx 18 kg dry mass + 25 Kg moist

The charcoaling process will give energy for cooking and other heat consuming processes.

The moister and volatiles from the charcoaling process are collected and used or sold ( bamboo vinegar, insectiside, pesticide )

1 rai gives a annual yield of 8000 Kg bamboo dry mass = 3200 Kg carbon = 25806 Kwh

Combining the biodigesting with gasification of the bamboo and plastic waste and co2 recovery.. quadruples that value

Pay the farmers for the green waste charcoal, they can earn a nice supplemental income and reduce their "burn off emissions" also sell the bamboo vinegar.

The also can drive their vehicles on the charcoal and generate their own needed power for irrigation and other needs...

Edited June 28, 2015 by kovaltech

[halloween]

Total cost per Kwh produced ( including staff and fuel ) = 4,15 Bath

Sold to the grid with all the subventions = 8,32 bath /Kwh

Project data:

200 Kwh / 24/7 / 365 days a year with a 70% effective rate = 1226400 Kwh

Costs; 1226400*4,15 = 5089560

Income; 1226400*8,32 = 10203648

I would say : thats a nice profit for the community...plus the extra subventions for the use of plastic waste ( not calculated yet )

Well I hate to piss on your parade, old son, but your wholesale production cost is quite high. Luckily for you, you are being paid nearly 3 times the value of your energy, so while your community makes a "nice profit" other communities are paying extra to cover your subsidy.

The retail price of electricity here is <B4/kWh (last time I looked), yet you are being paid more than B8. Why? Because some politician with no knowledge of electricity generation, and no concern over costs, thought it was a vote winner. Take away the subsidy and where are you?

@ halloween... did you know that the solar farms get 10,5 bath per Kwh ? and that is imported tech...

one problem with solar tech dough... it does not take away the problem from green waste burn off, fermentation from rotten fruit... garbage gas...

so thats why i decided to DO something about it and HELP some poor folks...

Another idea for generating electric... using the wind from the mouths of the talkers... based on the amount of wind made on TVF, we probably could support whole Bangkok with electricity...

Or putting a generator on every keystroke they make ;-)

So, a lot of talking, but who is actually doing ? show me what you did... not tell me what you read on the internet

How does that solar is hugely overpaid for their energy affect that you are also? Solar and biomass in general are usually only viable because of politics, and the decision to hand it massive subsidies.

BTW I have over 20 years experience of applied generation, working in NSW black coal power stations, which the current climate denigrates while paying a billion dollars to build 20MW solar stations. I also have experience in system control, and understand the problems caused to the grid by uncontrolled inputs like solar and wind, and tin pot little producers. I also understand the cost to consumers of spinning reserve to cover these uncontrolled inputs, and the subsidies paid to them.

Keep you slurs and keep playing with your toys.

[halloween]

I come from a part of Britain that was once beautiful, yes you TVF critics there are actually beautiful parts of Britain, okay not many, but there are some. The hills and coastline are now filled with windmills. The once scenery adored by poets has been desecrated. The governments subsidy to land owners, and yes all the shore lines belong to some Lord or Duke, has cost the tax payer millions.

How much power has Spain generated from their windmills ? Not much I suspect. Are they onshore or offshore ? I suspect most tourists are not in Spain for the natural scenery, but ooops that probably applies to Thailand too. Silly me !

Not to mention the costs, besides the taxpayers money, for the environment and the local economy...

On the total live span from a windmill, including all costs... try to downscale a windmill to your own needs or even community needs... not feasible... but only good for some big investors who get the subventions...

Correct. Wind generation is only viable in a small scale if you are using to charge a battery bank, or in large scale if you are feeding it into a grid. But then the grid has to have other forms of generation available to vary its output to compensate for the variable wind generator output. Germany is having a lot of problems with its system due to this.

[kovaltech]

@ Halloween,

Since you'r raised on BS, your wind can be used to produce a lot of energy i reccon ?

Show me some deeds don't make me read meaningless words... if only we could turn words into useful energy... How much subventions would we get for that ?

So, to the topic, what alternative source of energy you have to offer, to reduce the import in Thailand ?

[masquerade]

Methane is the way to go, there is more than enough raw product in this country to process.

yes, it surely is one off the ways to go

-biodigester

-landfill gas

-gasification

Some years ago, a Sydney landfill was capped and the captured methane burned in a converted V8 motor driving a generator. The value of the energy produced didn't cover the maintenance costs, let alone the cost of setting it up. The "green" council was voted out partly at least on the evidence of a huge waste of money.

During 1972 on an army on an exercise in Papua New Guinea, we set up methane gas units at local villages and a small hospital. All run using chicken and pig waste. The cost was low as we used 44 gallon drums and standard gas fitting, they were quite efficient and safe. I could well imagine that the cost would be high if a simple idea is modified to please rather than to work. Just like the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Anyway I believe they could work well for the poorer secluded village communities here in Thailand.

[kovaltech]

Methane is the way to go, there is more than enough raw product in this country to process.

yes, it surely is one off the ways to go

-biodigester

-landfill gas

-gasification

Some years ago, a Sydney landfill was capped and the captured methane burned in a converted V8 motor driving a generator. The value of the energy produced didn't cover the maintenance costs, let alone the cost of setting it up. The "green" council was voted out partly at least on the evidence of a huge waste of money.

During 1972 on an army on an exercise in Papua New Guinea, we set up methane gas units at local villages and a small hospital. All run using chicken and pig waste. The cost was low as we used 44 gallon drums and standard gas fitting, they were quite efficient and safe. I could well imagine that the cost would be high if a simple idea is modified to please rather than to work. Just like the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Anyway I believe they could work well for the poorer secluded village communities here in Thailand.

Yes, it is safe and it is using wasted energy anyway... Its also encouraged by the Thai ministry of energy.

More of this please...

[halloween]

Some years ago, a Sydney landfill was capped and the captured methane burned in a converted V8 motor driving a generator. The value of the energy produced didn't cover the maintenance costs, let alone the cost of setting it up. The "green" council was voted out partly at least on the evidence of a huge waste of money.

During 1972 on an army on an exercise in Papua New Guinea, we set up methane gas units at local villages and a small hospital. All run using chicken and pig waste. The cost was low as we used 44 gallon drums and standard gas fitting, they were quite efficient and safe. I could well imagine that the cost would be high if a simple idea is modified to please rather than to work. Just like the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Anyway I believe they could work well for the poorer secluded village communities here in Thailand.

Sure, but why not just burn the gas for cooking and lighting? Trying to make electricity with it adds a whole new level of complexity and skill required.

[eliotness]

Some years ago, a Sydney landfill was capped and the captured methane burned in a converted V8 motor driving a generator. The value of the energy produced didn't cover the maintenance costs, let alone the cost of setting it up. The "green" council was voted out partly at least on the evidence of a huge waste of money.

During 1972 on an army on an exercise in Papua New Guinea, we set up methane gas units at local villages and a small hospital. All run using chicken and pig waste. The cost was low as we used 44 gallon drums and standard gas fitting, they were quite efficient and safe. I could well imagine that the cost would be high if a simple idea is modified to please rather than to work. Just like the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Anyway I believe they could work well for the poorer secluded village communities here in Thailand.

Sure, but why not just burn the gas for cooking and lighting? Trying to make electricity with it adds a whole new level of complexity and skill required.

There is a problem with such gas, and that's what else is there apart from methane. Methane from "organic" farm waste is only just a bit smelly and not too high in toxins, corrosive a bit because of the sulphur. As an indirect source of heat it could be just about ok. However urban sewage sludge and landfills are a completely different matter. The fumes from burning such gas can be really smelly and very corrosive. OK you can condense out most of the problem vapours/gases, but then what do you do with the condensate ? I worked at a sewage works that used the gas from sludge digestion for water central heating, but ONLY on site. The condensate was drip fed back into the sewer input. The condensate from such gases is really very nasty, with a huge pollution potential if not managed correctly. Therefore because of corrosion lighting is out and because of the smell and possible toxins cooking is also out. Where landfill gas is collected it is mostly flared onsite.