Greek campaigns, neck and neck, reach dramatic finale

[sirineou]

And why are the likes of the UK, Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc, who are not in the Euro currency better off

for it?

Let me take a guess ...because there are no southern European nations in the list?

Ok , but why are south-eastern that haven't got the euro doing better ? (like Romania & Bulgaria & Croatia.)

That is the real fear. A Grexit that results in significant improvement in the Greek economy could initiate a stampede toward the door for other ailing European economies. That and other reasons is why Greece will not be allowed to leave the Euro zone. As far as your Graph is concerned, any statistics that deal in percentages can be erroneous . A GDP of $1 That grows to $2 has grown 100% where a $100 Dollar GDP that has increased to $110 GDP has grown only 10% . Romania and Bulgaria and Croatia are recent initiates to the Capitalist system, they start from a low baseline, any increase measured in % would be significant.

[Anthony5]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

If the Greeks vote "NO", Tsipras is in a much stronger position to set the rules for the deal, that will be agreed to by the EC at all costs.

DISAGREE.

Tsipras has nothing to negotiate with a majority NO vote. But he will have a good excuse for continuing to bing PM and that's all the referendum is about - keeping himself in power no matter the damage to the Greek economy.

You still disagree with me ?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-result-very-regrettable-eurogroups-dijsselbloem-221415144.html

Greece's 'No' vote in its bailout referendum is "very regrettable" and the economy faces tough measures to recover, the head of the Eurogroup of eurozone finance ministers, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said Sunday.

We will now wait for the initiatives of the Greek authorities."

[micmichd]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=28EAWlOXrYs

4 Costas, wherever he is.

[TheAppletons]

You still disagree with me ?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-result-very-regrettable-eurogroups-dijsselbloem-221415144.html

Greece's 'No' vote in its bailout referendum is "very regrettable" and the economy faces tough measures to recover, the head of the Eurogroup of eurozone finance ministers, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said Sunday.

We will now wait for the initiatives of the Greek authorities."

I still agree to disagree.

He said, in the article you linked, that the outcome was "very regrettable for the future of Greece."

Regarding the "initiatives of the Greek authorities", he may very well mean what's Greece going to do now that they are on the way out of the euro.....like issue IOUs or print drachmas.

[micmichd]

A clear democratic mandate now: No to austerity dictates, not surrender to banks. Could be a model for other European countries.

[puck2]

A clear democratic mandate now: No to austerity dictates, not surrender to banks. Could be a model for other European countries.

Stupid answer.

This "democratic" referendum is nearly the same as if you let the people vote about "Would you like to pay taxes or not?". Everbody nows the result. This referendum was already a joke.

The Greecs like to take the European money for a better life, but don't like to deliver anything. Imagine, Ireland, Spain, Portugal had demanded the same as Greece instead of taking some actions.

The Greeks have had so much time to take taxes from the rich. They threw the list from Madame LaGarde (at that time EU) into the waste basket, sent to them many years ago. Only one example for their inactivity and negligence.

Would you like to support somebody in your family who constantly opens his/her hands your some money instead of trying to work hard?

I don't deny that the European Union made a lot of mistakes, especially not looking behind the Greec curtain before starting the Euro currency. Looking through the Greec curtain of deception - including Goldmann & Sachs' - would have shown the politicians a long list of defaults. I.e.:

- chaotic, disastrous administration, although overloaded with civil servants. Among them - believe it or not - just to now not any reliable land office/registry. Who would like to invest in this country when it is not sure, if the land you buy doesn't partially belong to somedody else?

- corruption. You cannot abolish this behaviour by signing an anti-corruption law. This takes time and demands enforcement.

- tax avoiding. Would you like to support a country that doesn't collect the taxes from the rich, but you as a European taxpayer has to pay ?

- and the list goes on.

The idea of the EU is to support the poor countries what is laudable, but not the freeloaders.

Edited July 6, 2015 by puck2

[micmichd]

Sorry, you don't catch the point. This is a referendum about banksters' rule on everything. Goldman & Sachs are banksters, too, and of course they knew what they were doing when they got Greece into the Euro zone. The survival of people is absolutely irrelevant for capital.

Should society accept this? OXI. No, if society wants to survive.

One of these days the rest of Europe might face the same conflict. You should be glad that one country took the first step. Greeks are better Europeans than the rest of EU. Glad they're there.

Edited July 6, 2015 by micmichd

[TimmyT]

Sorry, you don't catch the point. This is a referendum about banksters' rule on everything. Goldman & Sachs are banksters, too, and of course they knew what they were doing when they got Greece into the Euro zone. The survival of people is absolutely irrelevant for capital.

Should society accept this? OXI. No, if society wants to survive.

One of these days the rest of Europe might face the same conflict. You should be glad that one country took the first step. Greeks are better Europeans than the rest of EU. Glad they're there.

oh yeah. the country didn't collect taxes, spent too much on social system, killed it's own economy with over regulation and inefficient management system, borrowed a lot of money which can't be payed back.. and whose fault it is?

banksters!

the usual leftist ranting of blaming anyone except yourself...

in sane world people and countries have there own personal responsibility for their actions. No one forced Greece to do what what it did. if you were so stupid to borrow money you can't pay back - you loose everything. it's fair. and it's just your fault.

Edited July 6, 2015 by TimmyT

[IMA_FARANG]

At least the Greeks will be free from the economic slavery imposed on them by the Euro bankers and their criminal "bailout" taxes.

The so=called "Bailout" funds have never gone to one Greek worker, as soon as a "bailout" was sent to a Greek bank, that money went straight to a German or French bank to repay the "interest" on a loan from that German or French bank.

The so-called "Greek bailout" has simply been a Euro banker scam game to extract tax money from other Eurozone taxpayers, and to enrich the French, German, and other rich bankers that run it.

Yes, it will hurt Greece for a while not to be part of the Eurozone, but that pain is better than to be the economic Ben Dover of the Eurozone.

Freedom even in poverty, is better that Ben Dover democracy.

The Eurozone is a Ben Dover democracy.

You know what a Ben Dover democracy is don't you.?

When a banker in the Eurozone want's it, he asks you to drop your trousers, and then Ben Dover and take a hard one for the Eurozone.

Like the U.K. government.

Ben Dover.

Edited July 6, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[micmichd]

Sorry, you don't catch the point. This is a referendum about banksters' rule on everything. Goldman & Sachs are banksters, too, and of course they knew what they were doing when they got Greece into the Euro zone. The survival of people is absolutely irrelevant for capital.

Should society accept this? OXI. No, if society wants to survive.

One of these days the rest of Europe might face the same conflict. You should be glad that one country took the first step. Greeks are better Europeans than the rest of EU. Glad they're there.

oh yeah. the country didn't collect taxes, spent too much on social system, killed it's own economy with over regulation and inefficient management system, borrowed a lot of money which can't be payed back.. and whose fault it is?

banksters!

the usual leftist ranting of blaming anyone except yourself...

in sane world people and countries have there own personal responsibility for their actions. No one forced Greece to do what what it did. if you were so stupid to borrow money you can't pay back - you loose everything. it's fair. and it's just your fault.

Overregulation is certainly rather a German and European invention.

It was not the majority of Greek people that borrowed money from EU, Greek capital got it and then took it out of the country. Niarchos & Onassis & Co.

You think the idea of EU is to support poor countries?

The idea is exploitation and human trafficking. On a per capita count, Germany is the biggest brothel in the world, and many (if not the most) prostitutes in Germany are East Europeans. Cheap bodies is what they're after.

[TimmyT]

oh yeah. the country didn't collect taxes, spent too much on social system, killed it's own economy with over regulation and inefficient management system, borrowed a lot of money which can't be payed back.. and whose fault it is?

banksters!

the usual leftist ranting of blaming anyone except yourself...

in sane world people and countries have there own personal responsibility for their actions. No one forced Greece to do what what it did. if you were so stupid to borrow money you can't pay back - you loose everything. it's fair. and it's just your fault.

Overregulation is certainly rather a German and European invention.

It was not the majority of Greek people that borrowed money from EU, Greek capital got it and then took it out of the country. Niarchos & Onassis & Co.

You think the idea of EU is to support poor countries?

The idea is exploitation and human trafficking. On a per capita count, Germany is the biggest brothel in the world, and many (if not the most) prostitutes in Germany are East Europeans. Cheap bodies is what they're after.

it's irrelevant to discuss the idea of EU now. The decision to enter the Euro zone was made my democratically elected (be the majority of people) government of Greece, money was borrowed by democratically elected government of Greece. And was spent to support high pensions (higher than in Germany!) high wages in government sector ( it was cheaper to transport people on taxis than use Greek government railroad, wages of civil servants were higher than in Germany) etc.

and if somebody took out money, lend by EU - it is the fault of the government of Greece, and nobody's else.

all choices were made by democratically elected Greek administrations - elected by the majority - same as Tsipras's Sirisa party

so whose fault it is?

Edited July 6, 2015 by TimmyT

[Anthony5]

You still disagree with me ?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-result-very-regrettable-eurogroups-dijsselbloem-221415144.html

Greece's 'No' vote in its bailout referendum is "very regrettable" and the economy faces tough measures to recover, the head of the Eurogroup of eurozone finance ministers, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said Sunday.

We will now wait for the initiatives of the Greek authorities."

I still agree to disagree.

He said, in the article you linked, that the outcome was "very regrettable for the future of Greece."

Regarding the "initiatives of the Greek authorities", he may very well mean what's Greece going to do now that they are on the way out of the euro.....like issue IOUs or print drachmas.

Maybe thhis one is clear enough for you, announced by the same woman who said less than 7 days ago that Greece would never be able to tap into IMF funds again since they defaulted on the IMF bail. Now just wait for Junker to follow with a similar statement.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-lagarde-says-imf-ready-144915704.html

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the International Monetary Fund, says the fund stands "ready to assist Greece if requested to do so."

[sirineou]

At least the Greeks will be free from the economic slavery imposed on them by the Euro bankers and their criminal "bailout" taxes.

The so=called "Bailout" funds have never gone to one Greek worker, as soon as a "bailout" was sent to a Greek bank, that money went straight to a German or French bank to repay the "interest" on a loan from that German or French bank.

The so-called "Greek bailout" has simply been a Euro banker scam game to extract tax money from other Eurozone taxpayers, and to enrich the French, German, and other rich bankers that run it.

Yes, it will hurt Greece for a while not to be part of the Eurozone, but that pain is better than to be the economic Ben Dover of the Eurozone.

Freedom even in poverty, is better that Ben Dover democracy.

The Eurozone is a Ben Dover democracy.

You know what a Ben Dover democracy is don't you.?

When a banker in the Eurozone want's it, he asks you to drop your trousers, and then Ben Dover and take a hard one for the Eurozone.

Like the U.K. government.

Ben Dover.

Absolutely right my friend. 90% of bailout has gone directly to the bankers, for that the Greek people had to endure the imposed austerity that has seen the average pension shrink to about 700 euros about 40% of pensioners with less of 300 euros a month. now they want to increase the Vat on medications to 13%, . Can you imagine living on 300 euros and having to pay 13% vat on your medicine , and all of that going to the bankers.

And the peanut gallery is cheering for that.

Six years of austerity, Greek GDP shrink by 1/4. and now they own more than when they started,

Imagine the Greeks saying NO to that.

And the peanut gallery is cheering

Disgusting!!!

[TheAppletons]

Maybe thhis one is clear enough for you, announced by the same woman who said less than 7 days ago that Greece would never be able to tap into IMF funds again since they defaulted on the IMF bail. Now just wait for Junker to follow with a similar statement.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-lagarde-says-imf-ready-144915704.html

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the International Monetary Fund, says the fund stands "ready to assist Greece if requested to do so."

I don't require clarity, thanks. Perhaps you might?

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund told Greece on Monday it could not provide funds to countries that had missed payments due to the international lender, an IMF representative said.

IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde spoke to Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras about the Greek people's rejection in a referendum of the bailout terms of international lenders.

"The managing director explained the fund's inability to disburse under its arrears policy," the representative said in a statement that appeared to refer to Greece's default on an IMF loan last month."

http://news.yahoo.com/imf-tells-greece-cannot-money-due-missed-payment-195024988--business.html

[micmichd]

Sorry, you don't catch the point. This is a referendum about banksters' rule on everything. Goldman & Sachs are banksters, too, and of course they knew what they were doing when they got Greece into the Euro zone. The survival of people is absolutely irrelevant for capital.

Should society accept this? OXI. No, if society wants to survive.

One of these days the rest of Europe might face the same conflict. You should be glad that one country took the first step. Greeks are better Europeans than the rest of EU. Glad they're there.

oh yeah. the country didn't collect taxes, spent too much on social system, killed it's own economy with over regulation and inefficient management system, borrowed a lot of money which can't be payed back.. and whose fault it is?

banksters!

the usual leftist ranting of blaming anyone except yourself...

in sane world people and countries have there own personal responsibility for their actions. No one forced Greece to do what what it did. if you were so stupid to borrow money you can't pay back - you loose everything. it's fair. and it's just your fault.

I was stupid enough to grant credits to European organizations and rely on their laws.

Not really stupid, I had to get out of Germany for medical reasons.

Is it now my fault if I got ripped off? Guess not.

[Anthony5]

Maybe thhis one is clear enough for you, announced by the same woman who said less than 7 days ago that Greece would never be able to tap into IMF funds again since they defaulted on the IMF bail. Now just wait for Junker to follow with a similar statement.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-lagarde-says-imf-ready-144915704.html

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the International Monetary Fund, says the fund stands "ready to assist Greece if requested to do so."

I don't require clarity, thanks. Perhaps you might?

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund told Greece on Monday it could not provide funds to countries that had missed payments due to the international lender, an IMF representative said.

IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde spoke to Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras about the Greek people's rejection in a referendum of the bailout terms of international lenders.

"The managing director explained the fund's inability to disburse under its arrears policy," the representative said in a statement that appeared to refer to Greece's default on an IMF loan last month."

http://news.yahoo.com/imf-tells-greece-cannot-money-due-missed-payment-195024988--business.html

So that are 2 contradicting statements by the same IMF director within 12 hours.

Let's see which of both will prevail, but I think I know already, going by the backtracking statements from the EC,

http://news.yahoo.com/latest-greek-fm-resigns-bailout-vote-060352377.html#

8:45 p.m.

The leaders of Germany and France say they respect Greece's vote against the terms of an international bailout, and added the door remains open to negotiations with the Greek government to find a way to keep the country in the 19-country eurozone.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed the importance of Greece taking "responsibility" for reforming its economy, while French President Francois Hollande said it is important for Europe to show "solidarity" with Greece. The two leaders run the eurozone's largest economies.

[micmichd]

Here come the mantras.

2 + 2 = 5, remember?

Edited July 7, 2015 by micmichd

[biplanebluey]

A post with an a graphic in a foreign language has been removed. Only English is allowed in this section of the forum.

Says you with a big ad in Thai on the right hand side

[TheAppletons]

A post with an a graphic in a foreign language has been removed. Only English is allowed in this section of the forum.

Says you with a big ad in Thai on the right hand side

Nicely done. Btw, you need to get the Ad-Block+ extension for your browser. No ads at all!