Singapore permanent residency

[Heng]

Does anyone on board have first hand experience with this? Looking for a solution where I simply park my funds, not looking to start a new business.

Yes, I've read through the Global Investor Program FAQ, but would be interested in hearing first hand accounts regarding hurdles, issues, etc. Been saving there for years and should Plan A (in the LOS) fail, I think SG would be a smoother transition for the family as a Plan B. I see there are a number of work type visas but I'm 40 and not going to start working for anyone now, nor does building a business from scratch in a country with 75% Hokkien Chinese appeal to me.

We also have the US as an option but since SG is in many ways 'more' first world (how many places in the world where the 'good part of town' is constantly threating to squeeze out the 'otherside of the tracks.' I'm thinking I'll probably want to stay in the region. Will just have to get over my personal issue of living in a condo as a primary home as from my minor research, dirt will probably be out of the question unless I want to live on the very end of the MRT lines.

.... also interested in hearing about hybrid solutions.... such as where the kids get on student visas (for middle school, high school, university, etc) and the parents on whatever relavant support type visas relating to the family.

:-)

Edited July 7, 2015 by Heng

[LoveThaiGirls]

Don't have first hand experience of investor schemes, just the path to PR as a foreign employee. For me it was a case of waiting around 2 years minimum (people recommended 3) and then hoping there are enough "slots" available for that year's quota (which horribly from comments can even be influenced by ethnicity/race). In the end I didn't bother as I had to decide whether to stay another year or two, or move elsewhere.

You mention you didn't want to start a business, but what about hiring someone to run one? I think it boils down to investing money in the country long-term, either crazy amounts (S$2.5m for GIP etc?) or working there/owning a business and paying your taxes for a few years and hoping for the best (though pretty sure P1 level salaries would be welcomed).

It's a lovely country, very clean and peaceful, but also very expensive in expat areas. Was also a bit boring for me.

[Barin]

First of all you need to consider that the cost of living in Singapore is twice that in Thailand.

70% of local population is Chinese and are not so sincere as Thai people.

I lived and worked in Singapore for 1 year.

I feel much more comfortable with Thai people than Chinese.

In order to apply for Permanent Residence status in Singapore you need to work at least one year with Employment Pass for some employer in Singapore (what I did). When you apply for PR in Singapore and when the Ministry of Labor starts to consider your application you must have a valid EP (Employment Pass).

I applied for PR in the last month of my 1 year employment, there was a queue to wait for 1 month.

When the Government Office started to consider my application my Employment Pass was already expired so they just informed me of that and cancelled my PR application.

[Sleekjub]

Cost of living in SG is 3-4 times more than TH. You will be entitled to CPF(Government spending money) once you are granted PR.

[jayeho]

http://www.ica.gov.sg/services_centre.aspx?pageid=232

[Robert24]

a few points from my point of view:

- permanent residency in Singapore is not permanent. They will review your status (can't remember how frequently) and if you don't meet the requirements anymore, you will loose PR.

- Singapore is a great place to work but not necessarily to live. It's relatively small and after a while you will start traveling out of Singapore on weekends/holidays because you will have seen most of it. I mean it's a small island after all.

- Cost of living is significantly higher than Thailand. Consider at least 5-6 times more. Some examples: rent/housing. Expect at least to pay S$ 6,000-7,000 p.m. for a decent place. (THB 150k-175k pm). If you don't like condos, plenty of townhouses available. If you buy, expect at least a budget of S$ 1.5m++ for a decent place. Food is also considerably more expensive. (expect for simple dish in food court to pay at least 4$-5$ (100-125 baht)

- cars are very expensive. expect to pay roughly 2-3 times more than in Thailand.

- school tuition are also about 4-5 times of what it is in Thailand.

In summary, in my opinion there are places with better quality of life than Singapore. Granted it's a clean and safe place, good healthcare (but expensive) but highly populated, relatively small place. Also bear in mind that the anti-foreigner sentiment has been growing in Singapore given the large number of foreigners residing in Singapore.

Recommend to consider Malaysia as an alternative for a plan B option to Thailand if you want to stay in SEA. Alternatively if North Asia is an option, I personally liked living in Japan. Expensive as well, but clean, safe and a big country. If you can bear the cost of living, I'd choose Japan any time over Singapore.

[Heng]

thanks for the comments. Yes, well aware of the cost of living. Will inquire about the GIP directly but was wondering if anyone else has gone through that set up (and again, more interested in Option B stories where you simply invest without doing the entrepreneurial startup route). Again, I'd rather stay in the LOS (heck, all of my real estate is here save a couple of small holdings in the US), but these next 5-10 years are somewhat of a dice roll as to where the country will be headed. It's easy to hope that we'll keep doing these shakeups every 6 years without any 'real' change, but when family and children are involved, I have to get Plan B and C set up.

[BestBitterPhuket]

I am a Permanent Resident in Singapore, but not via the investor scheme. If you can afford to throw those millions on the table, you probably wouldn't worry about paying 125bht for a chicken rice at a food court or almost 3,000,000 bht for a Toyota Vios that costs 500K in Thailand (not joking).

In general, singapore has over the last couple of years become much more restrictive of issuing PR's and other types of visas. Yes, they are still quite liberal, but not quite like before. And yes, in theory permanent residency is permanent, BUT the re-entry permit is only renewable for 5 years at the time, which means that without it, you can't leave singapore without losing your PR.

One more thing, if you are a PR and you have male children who also are PRs, they will have to do two years of national service (army) in Singapore. No exceptions.

Edited July 7, 2015 by BestBitterPhuket

[doneworking]

I am a PR in Singapore and have been for the last 10 years.. PR status can be permanent providing you renew your re-entry permit every 5 years.

in order to renew this permit you need to be working and paying tax into the country for 3 out of the 5 years.

However after 50 years of age you can renew you re-entry permit without having to work.

Setting up you own business here can be done and if you employ 3 locals you can issue yourself an employment pass and this will help you to gain PR status quicker. but you will still need to work and pay tax for 3 out of 5 years.

Gaining a PR via investment can be done but is very expensive (around 3 million minimum)

kids can come in under student visas into the universities but that does not come with dependant passes...

Malaysia will let you enrol into their "Malaysia my second home" scheme with a small investment where you can stay but not allowed to work..

(BTW its not 75% Hokkien Chinese) (more like 90% and they are Straits or mainland) (Thailand is much better)

[RT85]

i am a Singaporean and i left to live in LOS...no regrets so far! except for the terrible terrible pay grades here!!

overall things seems to be about 3 times cheaper on average? though i have taken a pay grade cut of about 5 times less...

only consideration to continue living here? i feel at least 2 times as happy here.... so just gotta keep working hard and level up i suppose!

we make do.. and we are happy. of course it helps that my wife is Thai and i speak thai etc etc.

Edited July 8, 2015 by RT85

[farang000999]

Is there an anecdote or a source for your unease of the next 5-10 years? What have you heard that has you worried?

[soihok]

I have lived in Singapore for about 13 years, all of the time employed on an Employment Pass. My Wife and two girls are sponsored by my employer to remain here on a Dependents pass which are linked to my EP.

Permanent residency is open to me and possible to obtain.

But.

I don't see myself as a permanent resident of Singapore. If there is no (read suitable salary level) work, I am out of here. I do like the place though, so straight forward and no messing about. Great schools, etc.

Horses for courses.

If you become PR you (and your employer) will be required to contribute towards the central provident fund.

https://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/members/tools/calculators

About 2008 Singapore opened its doors for all and sundry to apply for and become Singapore PR's. At this time there was a great influx of nationals from places such as India, Philippines, China, etc.

Now it is far more stringent.

[Heng]

Is there an anecdote or a source for your unease of the next 5-10 years? What have you heard that has you worried?

Just the inevitable that we all know about. Just like in families where the head of the household passes away, there will be a change in dynamic, hopefully it'll be minor, but you never know. Not terribly worried, just have always been a 'just in case' type of long term planner. The kids are growing up and will go to university overseas anyway, may as well kill 2 birds and have them do it somewhere clean, safe, stable, etc. Not worried about the national service thing, I think going through basic can only be a good thing for a young man (especially one that doesn't even need it as a career option but can plug the discipline gained back into a merchant/business type family environment). Just building up cash reserves there (among other places) for now, as that's not something you can really do 'in a rush' at the last minute.

...have always been kind of annoyed by the BoT currency controls in place here. "Want to transfer funds.... okay, give me 5 pieces of paper first and tell us where you will be using it to either 1) fund education 2) repatriate funds as a foreigner or 3) provide proof you are permanent resident somewhere else. I can still get funds out easily (and more often I simply don't transfer them here to begin with) as many banks are less restrictive after the first round of paperwork, but just knowing that noose is there sometimes feels constrictive. No Bitcoins. Illegal. Too modern and dangerous.

Oh, and soi dogs have lost their charm in the 20 years I've been here. :-)

Edited July 8, 2015 by Heng

[Robert24]

thanks for the comments. Yes, well aware of the cost of living. Will inquire about the GIP directly but was wondering if anyone else has gone through that set up (and again, more interested in Option B stories where you simply invest without doing the entrepreneurial startup route). Again, I'd rather stay in the LOS (heck, all of my real estate is here save a couple of small holdings in the US), but these next 5-10 years are somewhat of a dice roll as to where the country will be headed. It's easy to hope that we'll keep doing these shakeups every 6 years without any 'real' change, but when family and children are involved, I have to get Plan B and C set up.

understand where you come from. Have a look at Malaysia as plan B. Life is more comfortable there than in Singapore. Granted not as good as Thailand but some good options to stay long term with the MM2H program.

[Heng]

Will check it out, thanks. Actually have never been beyond KLIA, so don't yet have an opinion. Will keep an open mind.

[Jay Sata]

The boredom would get to me quickly in Singapore.

Nice,clean,ordered and safe but too small.

I find a week is about the most I can cope with.

[soihok]

Worked in KL for two years recently.

Not a place that I would choose to live in or around.

[Heng]

The boredom would get to me quickly in Singapore.

Nice,clean,ordered and safe but too small.

I find a week is about the most I can cope with.

I find the compact nature (along with its other attributes) charming. Feels like a souped up Austin, TX (where I grew up) meets Logan's Run. Also, I have to say I would feel a lot better with Singapore Airlines as my mainstay carrier to get out of town on whenever I got bored. It'll be nice to be able to rack up miles on ONE airline instead of the potpourri of airlines I have to take now to avoid Thai Airways.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Heng

[soihok]

The boredom would get to me quickly in Singapore.

Nice,clean,ordered and safe but too small.

I find a week is about the most I can cope with.

Singapore is a great place to work in.

The schools on offer are outstanding.

[Tolley]

I lived and worked in Singapore for a year not long ago.

The money was great but sadly living in Singapore loses its lustre very quickly unless you like shopping centres!

The worst thing I found was lining up for taxis that gets very old very quickly.

It also rains a lot and the lack of space, apartment living etc are just too much to bear.

There has to be better options than Singers.

[gamini]

Unless things have changed. I had to be interviewed for my PR. You had contribute something good towards the country. I paid a lot of tax, employed a lot of people. I was highly qualified etc.

[Jay Sata]

I lived and worked in Singapore for a year not long ago.

The money was great but sadly living in Singapore loses its lustre very quickly unless you like shopping centres!

The worst thing I found was lining up for taxis that gets very old very quickly.

It also rains a lot and the lack of space, apartment living etc are just too much to bear.

There has to be better options than Singers.

I agree. It is a bit like living in Perth Western Australia.

Great climate...clean city..no crime..fantastic beaches..and after a year you feel like being on the moon.