US devolving into anarchy? Woman shot broad daylight, film crew robbed/pistol whipped

[nemrut]

Can't believe the stuff happening in US these days. Regular shootings on an almost weekly basis, and then on July 4th woman shot in broad daylight while film crew covering event is robbed and pistol whipped.

http://www.news.com.au/world/kathryn-steinle-32-fatally-shot-at-san-francisco-tourist-attraction/story-fndir2ev-1227427905152

What is going on in the US?

[NeverSure]

For two reasons, this guy wasn't allowed to have a gun. He is a convicted felon and he is an illegal alien.

This is about a lack of law enforcement of laws that are already on the books.

He isn't an American. San Francisco is known as a "Sanctuary City" for these people and won't touch them.

"A man accused of shooting and killing a 32-year-old Plesanton woman near the San Francisco Ferry Building last Wednesday had been deported five times for various felonies, a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesperson reported.

Police arrested Francisco Sanchez, who was on probation out of Texas, on suspicion of killing Pleasanton resident Kathryn Steinle, a graduate of Amador Valley High School."

Any more questions?

Edited July 7, 2015 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

"California lawmaker moves to crack down on sanctuary cities in wake of murder."

A California lawmaker is making the first move to crack down on sanctuary city policies in San Francisco and the rest of the state after a young woman was murdered, allegedly by an illegal immigrant freed by the city just months earlier.

"The murder of this woman may have been prevented had there been a state law in place to prohibit so-called Sanctuary Cities, like San Francisco, from releasing previously convicted felons who are in the United States illegally," Stone said in a statement.

LINK

[AYJAYDEE]

always knew it would. countries have collective karma

[slipperylobster]

What you actually see is biased reporting.

There are bad events..and killings...everywhere. Not exclusive to the USA.

You will be duped into believing that the USA has "Karma" or some other wicked, imaginary, powers instigating murders and such.

There are events going on around the world....that you don't read about. (TV seems to concentrate only on the USA).

In the philippines, for instance...people get murdered by other ways....bolo attacks (machete).

[AYJAYDEE]

What you actually see is biased reporting.

There are bad events..and killings...everywhere. Not exclusive to the USA.

You will be duped into believing that the USA has "Karma" or some other wicked, imaginary, powers instigating murders and such.

There are events going on around the world....that you don't read about. (TV seems to concentrate only on the USA).

In the philippines, for instance...people get murdered by other ways....bolo attacks (machete).

no one is denying violence happens in other countries and that wasnt the subject he asked about.

[IMA_FARANG]

The truth is that the coherence of society is breaking down.

Look into the experiment with Rat colonies in the 1950's and early 1960's at the National Institute of Mental Health by a U.S. behavioral scientist whose name was John B. Calhoun.

He did research on Rats.....making sure they had all their material needs.... but constantly limiting their individual space (that is keeping them well fed, but crowding them together by limiting their individual living space).

Rather like humans are doing today by crowding more and more people into Rat Mega-Cities such as are becoming the human norm in the U.S.. Europe, and Asia now

He keet a journal of their behavior over several Rat generations recording what happened to these well fed Rat societies

He documented how the organized Rat society broke down under the stress of continuous crowding together......with the growth of irrational behavior and violence becoming the norm over 2 or 3 Rat generations.

Read his records of the results of the breakdown of the organized Rat society and compare them to what is happening in the overcrowded cites Humans are making for themselves to live

in now. and pay attention to the similarities.

In the end, Calhoun's well organized Rat society turned into a non-functioning violent and unworkable violent mass of Rats.... simply because of the crowding they were forced to live in.

I see this coming true in Human societies now.

The difference is that 2 or 3 Rat generations can be done in a decade..... that in human time will be at least a century.

Enjoy your well-fed future.

We Humans have already started our experiment.....we are just seeing the beginning of the breakdown of our society

Many "experts" would disagree with me.... for one thing they say..... Humans are more intelligent and Rational then Rats.... Humans will adjust their behavior if they see their group behavior is damaging their organized social structure.

I don't believe that..... I think Calhoun's Rats showed us our future in the Human Mega-City also.

Edited July 8, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[slipperylobster]

The truth is that the coherence of society is breaking down.

Look into the experiment with Rat colonies in the 1950's and early 1960's at the National Institute of Mental Health by a U.S. behavioral scientist whose name was John B. Calhoun.

He did research on Rats.....making sure they had all their material needs.... but constantly limiting their individual space (that is keeping them well fed, but crowding them together by limiting their individual living space).

Rather like humans are doing today by crowding more and more people into Rat Mega-Cities such as are becoming the human norm in the U.S.. Europe, and Asia now

He keet a journal of their behavior over several Rat generations recording what happened to these well fed Rat societies

He documented how the organized Rat society broke down under the stress of continuous crowding together......with the growth of irrational behavior and violence becoming the norm over 2 or 3 Rat generations.

Read his records of the results of the breakdown of the organized Rat society and compare them to what is happening in the overcrowded cites Humans are making for themselves to live

in now. and pay attention to the similarities.

In the end, Calhoun's well organized Rat society turned into a non-functioning violent and unworkable violent mass of Rats.... simply because of the crowding they were forced to live in.

I see this coming true in Human societies now.

The difference is that 2 or 3 Rat generations can be done in a decade..... that in human time will be at least a century.

Enjoy your well-fed future.

We Humans have already started our experiment.....we are just seeing the beginning of the breakdown of our society

Many "experts" would disagree with me.... for one thing they say..... Humans are more intelligent and Rational then Rats.... Humans will adjust their behavior if they see their group behavior is damaging their organized social structure.

I don't believe that..... I think Calhoun's Rats showed us our future in the Human Mega-City also.

Like Rome, and countless other civilizations...who thought it was the end. I am not giving up yet.

[NeverSure]

Now it turns out that this criminal illegal alien who had been deported 5 times and convicted of 7 crimes in the US, and who was rocking around in a sanctuary city run by the loony left:

Stole his gun from a US Federal Agent. This has nothing to do with legal Americans owning guns legally. In fact it just puts the spotlight on criminals including the criminal government which won't kick illegals out or lock them up after a number of crimes.

The same bleeding heart liberals who decry guns enabled this criminal to walk the streets of San Francisco and murder an innocent citizen.

LINK CNN

Edited July 8, 2015 by NeverSure

[troy]

24hr news and internet is what is happening in the US. It was once much more violent and crime ridden than it is now, but limited space in newspapers and the six o'clock news limited coverage. To anyone over thirty it looks like society is suddenly going crazy. To someone 20yrs old who never knew a time without 24hr news and internet it's just a day in the life.

[CaptHaddock]

This discussion is an example of the pitfalls of reasoning from anecdote instead of data. In fact, the homicide rate in the US has been declining steadily for years. This despite the school shootings and random shootings like the one referred to. News coverage make an event vivid and causes us to have emotional reactions, but doesn't help us to understand trends which are the real story.

Violent crimes of all types have been declining.

So, while I deplore the gun culture in America and note that homicides are higher in states with fewer restrictions on gun ownership, nevertheless it remains true overall that violence is declining in the US. This is nothing to be proud of though because gun violence in the US is far higher than in other countries.

So, no, the coherence of society is not breaking down at all. It's strengthening, in fact, but the US remains a barbaric country by comparison with other countries.

[bamnutsak]

This discussion is an example of the pitfalls of reasoning from anecdote instead of data.

Or watching too much Fox News.

I return to the U.S. frequently, was just back July 1 - 8, everything seems fine, didn't see any anarchy, except in Chicago. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

According to Grover Norquist, crime is down because more people carry guns. Who needs police? Prisons?

Grover Norquist: Concealed Carry Gun Laws Decrease Crime

By Bill Hoffmann | Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 05:43 PM

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, says concealed carry gun laws are responsible for the nation's declining crime rate, not more incarceration of criminals.

"The mass incarcerations have had less of an impact. It certainly helped in the 80s and in the beginning of the 90s. We're seeing it have less impact [now]," Norquist said Thursday on "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

Edited July 9, 2015 by bamnutsak

[samuibeachcomber]

What you actually see is biased reporting.

There are bad events..and killings...everywhere. Not exclusive to the USA.

You will be duped into believing that the USA has "Karma" or some other wicked, imaginary, powers instigating murders and such.

There are events going on around the world....that you don't read about. (TV seems to concentrate only on the USA).

In the philippines, for instance...people get murdered by other ways....bolo attacks (machete).

you are right,violence has been spreading around the world for a long time now.

[CaptHaddock]

This discussion is an example of the pitfalls of reasoning from anecdote instead of data.

Or watching too much Fox News.

I return to the U.S. frequently, was just back July 1 - 8, everything seems fine, didn't see any anarchy, except in Chicago. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

According to Grover Norquist, crime is down because more people carry guns. Who needs police? Prisons?

Grover Norquist: Concealed Carry Gun Laws Decrease Crime

By Bill Hoffmann | Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 05:43 PM

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, says concealed carry gun laws are responsible for the nation's declining crime rate, not more incarceration of criminals.

"The mass incarcerations have had less of an impact. It certainly helped in the 80s and in the beginning of the 90s. We're seeing it have less impact [now]," Norquist said Thursday on "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

Of course, right-winger Norquist would say that. It's a ludicrous claim. Gun crimes, like all crimes, are crimes of opportunity. The more guns there are, the more opportunities for gun crimes.

Here's another graph that shows assault deaths over time in the US, which has the highest gun ownership in the world, compared to other countries.

And here's a graph by state that shows that states with more restrictive gun laws have less gun violence:

Of course, gun fans don't care about any of this. They just love guns.

[Hornyskunk]

As a Texan, I advocate for guns. Like many Texans, I believe that the real problem with gun-related crimes are laws that prohibit carrying and regulations/taxes that discourage gun ownership. It is my view that if every citizen were required or encouraged to carry a gun at all times, the rights and privacies of the people would be collectively ensured and the trouble-makers would be necessarily suicidal.

The main argument against gun ownership is that people with access to guns will kill each other with guns. This is true. However, people without access to guns will still kill each other anyway.

IMA_FARANG is actually spot on in his comparison between population density and murder. State-by-state, population density is closely correlated with murder rate; I think the major exceptions are Nevada and New Mexico. Keep in mind that murder rate is calculated as murders divided by population, which means that there is a strong correlation in the US that people living in more population-dense states are more inclined to kill each other.

On the other hand, gun ownership rates are not strongly correllated with murder rates. The major reason for this is that there are too many outlier states. States with extremely low rates of gun ownership like California, New York and Maryland actually have moderate to high murder rates. States with extremely high rates of gun ownership, like Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas, have extremely low murder rates. Contrary to popular belief, Texas does not have a high rate of gun ownership compared to other US states, but it does have a high murder rate.

Of course, correllation does not equal causation, but hardly anyone cares about that little detail anymore.

I often wonder at news from around the world and from other parts of the US.
If somebody just walks into a church, theater, school, etc. and just starts shooting, why the F*** does nobody shoot back?

I feel very unsafe in Thailand not being able to buy a gun.

[CaptHaddock]

As a Texan, I advocate for guns. Like many Texans, I believe that the real problem with gun-related crimes are laws that prohibit carrying and regulations/taxes that discourage gun ownership. It is my view that if every citizen were required or encouraged to carry a gun at all times, the rights and privacies of the people would be collectively ensured and the trouble-makers would be necessarily suicidal.

The main argument against gun ownership is that people with access to guns will kill each other with guns. This is true. However, people without access to guns will still kill each other anyway.

IMA_FARANG is actually spot on in his comparison between population density and murder. State-by-state, population density is closely correlated with murder rate; I think the major exceptions are Nevada and New Mexico. Keep in mind that murder rate is calculated as murders divided by population, which means that there is a strong correlation in the US that people living in more population-dense states are more inclined to kill each other.

On the other hand, gun ownership rates are not strongly correllated with murder rates. The major reason for this is that there are too many outlier states. States with extremely low rates of gun ownership like California, New York and Maryland actually have moderate to high murder rates. States with extremely high rates of gun ownership, like Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas, have extremely low murder rates. Contrary to popular belief, Texas does not have a high rate of gun ownership compared to other US states, but it does have a high murder rate.

Of course, correllation does not equal causation, but hardly anyone cares about that little detail anymore.

I often wonder at news from around the world and from other parts of the US.

If somebody just walks into a church, theater, school, etc. and just starts shooting, why the F*** does nobody shoot back?

I feel very unsafe in Thailand not being able to buy a gun.

Of course, you're from Texas. That's the kind of nonsense Texans favor. Completely devoid of rationality. A faith-based approach to social problems like the extraordinarily high rate of gun crime in the US. Just deny facts that you don't like, such as the correlation of gun ownership in the US (highest in the world) with violent crime (also highest in the world.) Don't let that bother you if owning guns feels good. Bet you love capital punishment, too.

Lincoln is the source of this problem in American life. He should just have let the South go.

[jerojero]

Can't believe the stuff happening in US these days. Regular shootings on an almost weekly basis, and then on July 4th woman shot in broad daylight while film crew covering event is robbed and pistol whipped.

http://www.news.com.au/world/kathryn-steinle-32-fatally-shot-at-san-francisco-tourist-attraction/story-fndir2ev-1227427905152

What is going on in the US?

Ask the NRA and Republican backers. More guns among the population than people.

[Hornyskunk]

Of course, you're from Texas. That's the kind of nonsense Texans favor. Completely devoid of rationality. A faith-based approach to social problems like the extraordinarily high rate of gun crime in the US. Just deny facts that you don't like, such as the correlation of gun ownership in the US (highest in the world) with violent crime (also highest in the world.) Don't let that bother you if owning guns feels good. Bet you love capital punishment, too.

Lincoln is the source of this problem in American life. He should just have let the South go.

There's nothing faith-based or irrational about it. Yes, the US has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world and one of the highest murder rates. However, when comparing these two rates across all countries, there is no statistically significant correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates.

Between developed countries, there is a correllation. But among all countries, there is actually a slight correlation between higher gun ownership rates and lower homicide rates. The problem with all of these analyses, however, is that gun ownership and homicide are poorly measured across countries.

You can read all about it here:

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/

[sirineou]

Germany descent in to anarchy Two shot dead in southern Germany; police arrest suspect

[sanuk711]

What you actually see is biased reporting.

There are bad events..and killings...everywhere. Not exclusive to the USA.

You will be duped into believing that the USA has "Karma" or some other wicked, imaginary, powers instigating murders and such.

There are events going on around the world....that you don't read about. (TV seems to concentrate only on the USA).

In the philippines, for instance...people get murdered by other ways....bolo attacks (machete).

American gun lovers are quick to point out that, contrary to popular belief, America is not the murder capital of the world.

There are loads of war-torn, third world countries ahead of them...............................

[sirineou]

What you actually see is biased reporting.

There are bad events..and killings...everywhere. Not exclusive to the USA.

You will be duped into believing that the USA has "Karma" or some other wicked, imaginary, powers instigating murders and such.

There are events going on around the world....that you don't read about. (TV seems to concentrate only on the USA).

In the philippines, for instance...people get murdered by other ways....bolo attacks (machete).

American gun lovers are quick to point out that, contrary to popular belief, America is not the murder capital of the world.

There are loads of war-torn, third world countries ahead of them...............................

There are a lot to be said about gun control in the US, and I am one who thinks a lot more of it is needed,

but to say that the US is devolving into anarchy is hyperbole to say the least, the US is a large country with many diverse regions, any given day a lot will happen.

But all and all is relatively safe place as compared to other parts of the world.

[nemrut]

What you actually see is biased reporting.

There are bad events..and killings...everywhere. Not exclusive to the USA.

You will be duped into believing that the USA has "Karma" or some other wicked, imaginary, powers instigating murders and such.

There are events going on around the world....that you don't read about. (TV seems to concentrate only on the USA).

In the philippines, for instance...people get murdered by other ways....bolo attacks (machete).

American gun lovers are quick to point out that, contrary to popular belief, America is not the murder capital of the world.

There are loads of war-torn, third world countries ahead of them...............................

There are a lot to be said about gun control in the US, and I am one who thinks a lot more of it is needed,

but to say that the US is devolving into anarchy is hyperbole to say the least, the US is a large country with many diverse regions, any given day a lot will happen.

But all and all is relatively safe place as compared to other parts of the world.

US is relatively wealthier than many parts of the world but is that a good comparison?

[sirineou]

What you actually see is biased reporting.

There are bad events..and killings...everywhere. Not exclusive to the USA.

You will be duped into believing that the USA has "Karma" or some other wicked, imaginary, powers instigating murders and such.

There are events going on around the world....that you don't read about. (TV seems to concentrate only on the USA).

In the philippines, for instance...people get murdered by other ways....bolo attacks (machete).

American gun lovers are quick to point out that, contrary to popular belief, America is not the murder capital of the world.

There are loads of war-torn, third world countries ahead of them...............................

There are a lot to be said about gun control in the US, and I am one who thinks a lot more of it is needed,

but to say that the US is devolving into anarchy is hyperbole to say the least, the US is a large country with many diverse regions, any given day a lot will happen.

But all and all is relatively safe place as compared to other parts of the world.

US is relatively wealthier than many parts of the world but is that a good comparison?

only with in the context of the US devolving in to anarchy, which is clearly not the case.

[jerojero]

As a Texan, I advocate for guns. Like many Texans, I believe that the real problem with gun-related crimes are laws that prohibit carrying and regulations/taxes that discourage gun ownership. It is my view that if every citizen were required or encouraged to carry a gun at all times, the rights and privacies of the people would be collectively ensured and the trouble-makers would be necessarily suicidal.

The main argument against gun ownership is that people with access to guns will kill each other with guns. This is true. However, people without access to guns will still kill each other anyway.

IMA_FARANG is actually spot on in his comparison between population density and murder. State-by-state, population density is closely correlated with murder rate; I think the major exceptions are Nevada and New Mexico. Keep in mind that murder rate is calculated as murders divided by population, which means that there is a strong correlation in the US that people living in more population-dense states are more inclined to kill each other.

On the other hand, gun ownership rates are not strongly correllated with murder rates. The major reason for this is that there are too many outlier states. States with extremely low rates of gun ownership like California, New York and Maryland actually have moderate to high murder rates. States with extremely high rates of gun ownership, like Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas, have extremely low murder rates. Contrary to popular belief, Texas does not have a high rate of gun ownership compared to other US states, but it does have a high murder rate.

Of course, correllation does not equal causation, but hardly anyone cares about that little detail anymore.

I often wonder at news from around the world and from other parts of the US.

If somebody just walks into a church, theater, school, etc. and just starts shooting, why the F*** does nobody shoot back?

I feel very unsafe in Thailand not being able to buy a gun.

Feel sorry for you and millions alike USA citizens who somehow think arming everyone promotes a safe society. You need to live a few years or decades in a west European country or Canada to appreciate how safe feeling it is that the population is not armed to the teeth. Most farang feel perfectly safe in Thailand without a gun including me. But I guess that's because I'm not American.

[MaeJoMTB]

IMA_FARANG is actually spot on in his comparison between population density and murder. State-by-state, population density is closely correlated with murder rate; I think the major exceptions are Nevada and New Mexico. Keep in mind that murder rate is calculated as murders divided by population, which means that there is a strong correlation in the US that people living in more population-dense states are more inclined to kill each other.

No, he's actually wrong.

Murder happens where crime is profitable.

No point being a drug dealer in Alaska ...... not enough potential customers.

No point being a mugger on the plains .... not enough potential victims.

[Hornyskunk]

Feel sorry for you and millions alike USA citizens who somehow think arming everyone promotes a safe society. You need to live a few years or decades in a west European country or Canada to appreciate how safe feeling it is that the population is not armed to the teeth. Most farang feel perfectly safe in Thailand without a gun including me. But I guess that's because I'm not American.

To each his own.

No, he's actually wrong.

Murder happens where crime is profitable.

No point being a drug dealer in Alaska ...... not enough potential customers.

No point being a mugger on the plains .... not enough potential victims.

That is a valid argument, but it is also conducive to the theory that population density encourages crime. You may be interested to know that Alaska is some kind of frozen hell where rates of drug use, homicide and gun ownership are all moderate to high. I'm guessing it has something to do with being so close to Russia.

I read the BBC during breakfast and found this story on the decline of US power:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33440287

It appears we should be less concerned about anarchy in the US and more concerned about anarchy in the world thanks to the ineptitude of Mubarak Hussein Osama in foreign affairs.

[JimGant]

It appears we should be less concerned about anarchy in the US and more concerned about anarchy in the world thanks to the ineptitude of Mubarak Hussein Osama in foreign affairs.

I guess you missed the nuggets in that BBC article:

No longer is there much appetite for America playing its long-standing role of global policeman, even in the face of the rise of the group calling itself Islamic State.

The cost, human and financial, is considered too great. Americans increasingly think that other countries should share the burden.

You bet! The resources -- and limbs and lives -- we've wasted outside the US is unforgivable.

And I love this one:

Realising that America is no longer so supportive, and no longer so engaged in the Middle East, the Saudis have recently taken military action of their own in Yemen.

Well, aw shucks. They waited and waited for the US to commit it's young men and women -- so they could spare there own. But we're tired of fighting in other people's neighborhoods. Fight your own battles for a change.

Gone, too, is the notion that every fight is an American fight and along with it a redefinition of what constitutes the US national interest.

Barack Obama has instead advocated pragmatism and diplomatic dexterity, trying to steer a path between America being overextended and undercommitted.

Maybe the overriding challenge for US diplomacy over the next 20 years is to strike the proper balance.

Way to go, Mr President. And if you're going to err, do so on the "undercommitted" side, as I'm still pissed that we got sucked into WWI. Why do you think we built our country between such big moats.....

[55Jay]

I've been in the US for 1 month and I haven't been shot, pistol whipped, attacked by angry black people or tazed, beat and shot by a police officer or a deeply offended muslim radical.

Not to say that won't happen, but so far so good.

It did occur to me that when we are sat in Thailand viewing the US through the concentrated portal of the internet and our own cultural lens and prejudices, it's easy to lose perspective. It's also an interesting exercise to recall past decades and realize there was some crazy stuff going on even then, and folks of a certain age would shake their gray heads and say the whole kit and kabootle was going to hell in a hand basket.

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose."

[bamnutsak]

I've been in the US for 1 month and I haven't been shot, pistol whipped, attacked by angry black people or tazed, beat and shot by a police officer or a deeply offended muslim radical.

Not to say that won't happen, but so far so good.

It did occur to me that when we are sat in Thailand viewing the US through the concentrated portal of the internet and our own cultural lens and prejudices, it's easy to lose perspective. It's also an interesting exercise to recall past decades and realize there was some crazy stuff going on even then, and folks of a certain age would shake their gray heads and say the whole kit and kabootle was going to hell in a hand basket.

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose."

Agreed.

I just learned about the Tulsa (Greenwood district), Oklahoma race riot in 1921. Between 39 and 300 black Americans were murdered by white mobs. I honestly had never heard about this, talk about anarchy.

Recently, the Tulsa Race Riot Commission released a report indicating that historians now believe close to 300 people died in the riot.

http://tulsahistory.org/learn/online-exhibits/the-tulsa-race-riot/

[arunsakda]

If you want to truly be shocked look up "Waco Horror" or Chicago 1919. Truth is crime of all kinds in the US is waaaay down since the 1970's. These mass shootings are up recently, but the gun lobby is forcing the govt. to ignore tracking and studying it as a public health issue. Mother Jones just released a story that there were at least 204 mass shootings in the first 204 days of 2015 alone. The independent researchers only counted shootings, more conservative than the FBI definition of mass killing which is 4 homicides at a time (whether or not guns are involved).