US devolving into anarchy? Woman shot broad daylight, film crew robbed/pistol whipped

[arunsakda]

This is from FB so do not know if it is exactly accurate but sounds about right. Deeply shocking.

Edited July 27, 2015 by arunsakda

[lap82]

Hard to say...

[PHP87]

This discussion is an example of the pitfalls of reasoning from anecdote instead of data.

Or watching too much Fox News.

I return to the U.S. frequently, was just back July 1 - 8, everything seems fine, didn't see any anarchy, except in Chicago. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

According to Grover Norquist, crime is down because more people carry guns. Who needs police? Prisons?

Grover Norquist: Concealed Carry Gun Laws Decrease Crime

By Bill Hoffmann | Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 05:43 PM

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, says concealed carry gun laws are responsible for the nation's declining crime rate, not more incarceration of criminals.

"The mass incarcerations have had less of an impact. It certainly helped in the 80s and in the beginning of the 90s. We're seeing it have less impact [now]," Norquist said Thursday on "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

Of course, right-winger Norquist would say that. It's a ludicrous claim. Gun crimes, like all crimes, are crimes of opportunity. The more guns there are, the more opportunities for gun crimes.

Here's another graph that shows assault deaths over time in the US, which has the highest gun ownership in the world, compared to other countries.

And here's a graph by state that shows that states with more restrictive gun laws have less gun violence:

Of course, gun fans don't care about any of this. They just love guns.

Nice of you to speak for gun owners.

Do you have ESP?

Or are you just being a bit arrogant, to put it kindly?

[PHP87]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437993104.193996.jpg

This is from FB so do not know if it is exactly accurate but sounds about right. Deeply shocking.

Comparing the UK to the US or the US to any other country isn't a valid argument.

The US has a population of 320+ Million people, with Millions of immigrants from nearly 200 countries.

Does the South Side of Chicago represent the US, with its high crime rate, gang violence and shootings?

Or does Utah, a homogeneous State with a gun murder rate lower then the UK represent the US?

One of the biggest issues in the 2016 Presidential election is immigration, mostly illegals.

1/5th of El Salvador now resides in the US, for example.

With an open border to the South, illegals are flooding the US which is creating much of this so-called "anarchy"

The US is overtaxed with too many people putting a strain on resources, jobs, committing crimes, etc.

Are immigrants entirely to blame? No.

But the US simply cannot continue to allow Millions of uneducated, unskilled people to arrive by the thousands and not expect negative consequences.

It's not going to get better any time soon.

[CaptHaddock]

This discussion is an example of the pitfalls of reasoning from anecdote instead of data.

Or watching too much Fox News.

I return to the U.S. frequently, was just back July 1 - 8, everything seems fine, didn't see any anarchy, except in Chicago. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

According to Grover Norquist, crime is down because more people carry guns. Who needs police? Prisons?

Grover Norquist: Concealed Carry Gun Laws Decrease Crime

By Bill Hoffmann | Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 05:43 PM

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, says concealed carry gun laws are responsible for the nation's declining crime rate, not more incarceration of criminals.

"The mass incarcerations have had less of an impact. It certainly helped in the 80s and in the beginning of the 90s. We're seeing it have less impact [now]," Norquist said Thursday on "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

Of course, right-winger Norquist would say that. It's a ludicrous claim. Gun crimes, like all crimes, are crimes of opportunity. The more guns there are, the more opportunities for gun crimes.

Here's another graph that shows assault deaths over time in the US, which has the highest gun ownership in the world, compared to other countries.

And here's a graph by state that shows that states with more restrictive gun laws have less gun violence:

Of course, gun fans don't care about any of this. They just love guns.

Nice of you to speak for gun owners.

Do you have ESP?

Or are you just being a bit arrogant, to put it kindly?

My regret is that my statement is not arrogant enough. I despise gun owners who put their fantasies of power above the safety of everyone else, including school children.

[PHP87]

If you want to truly be shocked look up "Waco Horror" or Chicago 1919. Truth is crime of all kinds in the US is waaaay down since the 1970's. These mass shootings are up recently, but the gun lobby is forcing the govt. to ignore tracking and studying it as a public health issue. Mother Jones just released a story that there were at least 204 mass shootings in the first 204 days of 2015 alone. The independent researchers only counted shootings, more conservative than the FBI definition of mass killing which is 4 homicides at a time (whether or not guns are involved).

Mother Jones?

Not credible.

And what "gun lobby" and what "govt"?

204 Mass shootings?

I call BS

BTW, a story that might not have seen much time in the media was the 18-year old that killed 5 members of his family and seriously wounded 2 others with a knife, stabbing them as they slept.

But since he didn't use a gun, the media pretty much ignored it.

[PHP87]

Feel sorry for you and millions alike USA citizens who somehow think arming everyone promotes a safe society. You need to live a few years or decades in a west European country or Canada to appreciate how safe feeling it is that the population is not armed to the teeth. Most farang feel perfectly safe in Thailand without a gun including me. But I guess that's because I'm not American.

To each his own.

No, he's actually wrong.

Murder happens where crime is profitable.

No point being a drug dealer in Alaska ...... not enough potential customers.

No point being a mugger on the plains .... not enough potential victims.

That is a valid argument, but it is also conducive to the theory that population density encourages crime. You may be interested to know that Alaska is some kind of frozen hell where rates of drug use, homicide and gun ownership are all moderate to high. I'm guessing it has something to do with being so close to Russia.

I read the BBC during breakfast and found this story on the decline of US power:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33440287

It appears we should be less concerned about anarchy in the US and more concerned about anarchy in the world thanks to the ineptitude of Mubarak Hussein Osama in foreign affairs.

Actually, being a drug dealer is very much profitable as their are more than enough customers but not enough suppliers.

Gangs from LA are setting up shop there these days and seeing huge profits on their "investments"

And yes, Obama giving Iran nuke capability along with unfreezing their assets is insanity.

That money will end up in the hands of terrorists, and so may the nukes unless Iran uses them first chance they get against Israel.

[vogie]

N

As a Texan, I advocate for guns. Like many Texans, I believe that the real problem with gun-related crimes are laws that prohibit carrying and regulations/taxes that discourage gun ownership. It is my view that if every citizen were required or encouraged to carry a gun at all times, the rights and privacies of the people would be collectively ensured and the trouble-makers would be necessarily suicidal.

The main argument against gun ownership is that people with access to guns will kill each other with guns. This is true. However, people without access to guns will still kill each other anyway.

IMA_FARANG is actually spot on in his comparison between population density and murder. State-by-state, population density is closely correlated with murder rate; I think the major exceptions are Nevada and New Mexico. Keep in mind that murder rate is calculated as murders divided by population, which means that there is a strong correlation in the US that people living in more population-dense states are more inclined to kill each other.

On the other hand, gun ownership rates are not strongly correllated with murder rates. The major reason for this is that there are too many outlier states. States with extremely low rates of gun ownership like California, New York and Maryland actually have moderate to high murder rates. States with extremely high rates of gun ownership, like Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas, have extremely low murder rates. Contrary to popular belief, Texas does not have a high rate of gun ownership compared to other US states, but it does have a high murder rate.

Of course, correllation does not equal causation, but hardly anyone cares about that little detail anymore.

I often wonder at news from around the world and from other parts of the US.

If somebody just walks into a church, theater, school, etc. and just starts shooting, why the F*** does nobody shoot back?

I feel very unsafe in Thailand not being able to buy a gun.

If its any concellation, I feel safer you not carrying a gun.

[Gumballl]

This discussion is an example of the pitfalls of reasoning from anecdote instead of data. In fact, the homicide rate in the US has been declining steadily for years. This despite the school shootings and random shootings like the one referred to. News coverage make an event vivid and causes us to have emotional reactions, but doesn't help us to understand trends which are the real story.

Violent crimes of all types have been declining.

So, while I deplore the gun culture in America and note that homicides are higher in states with fewer restrictions on gun ownership, nevertheless it remains true overall that violence is declining in the US. This is nothing to be proud of though because gun violence in the US is far higher than in other countries.

So, no, the coherence of society is not breaking down at all. It's strengthening, in fact, but the US remains a barbaric country by comparison with other countries.

That's not entirely true. US citizens take pride in marksmanship, and thus they hit their targets with better accuracy than the average clown from the other countries.

Seriously, though... you think the US is barbaric? Where are you from... Canada?

Edited August 1, 2015 by Gumballl

[PHP87]

This discussion is an example of the pitfalls of reasoning from anecdote instead of data.

Or watching too much Fox News.

I return to the U.S. frequently, was just back July 1 - 8, everything seems fine, didn't see any anarchy, except in Chicago. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

According to Grover Norquist, crime is down because more people carry guns. Who needs police? Prisons?

Grover Norquist: Concealed Carry Gun Laws Decrease Crime

By Bill Hoffmann | Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 05:43 PM

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, says concealed carry gun laws are responsible for the nation's declining crime rate, not more incarceration of criminals.

"The mass incarcerations have had less of an impact. It certainly helped in the 80s and in the beginning of the 90s. We're seeing it have less impact [now]," Norquist said Thursday on "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

Of course, right-winger Norquist would say that. It's a ludicrous claim. Gun crimes, like all crimes, are crimes of opportunity. The more guns there are, the more opportunities for gun crimes.

Here's another graph that shows assault deaths over time in the US, which has the highest gun ownership in the world, compared to other countries.

And here's a graph by state that shows that states with more restrictive gun laws have less gun violence:

Of course, gun fans don't care about any of this. They just love guns.

Nice of you to speak for gun owners.

Do you have ESP?

Or are you just being a bit arrogant, to put it kindly?

My regret is that my statement is not arrogant enough. I despise gun owners who put their fantasies of power above the safety of everyone else, including school children.

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Actually, States that are "right to carry" have lower crime and murder rates than those that don't, in general although there may be an exception.

If you posted a map of right to carry states instead of one that has "laws that protect children" that would be obvious, but it didn't fit your narrative.

And so now gun owner put their "fantasies" above everyone else, including school children?

You don't have ESP, you have E-BS!

Let me guess, you've never fired a gun of any kind, or if you have, your knowledge about firearms and firearm ownership is embarrassingly ignorant.

But please, keep telling us what gun owner think and say.

While you're at it, can I have the winning Powerball numbers for the Lottery in the US Mr. Know it all?

Your hysterics don't pass for valid debate.

Again, "arrogant" is putting it politely...

Edited August 1, 2015 by PHP87

[PHP87]

Speaking of anarchy....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/594851/Eurotunnel-Calais-migrants-Britain-Channel-Theresa-May-government-security-immigration

Wait until the citizens...er...subjects in the UK start demanding the right to protect themselves from the illegal invaders from the South.

And yes, I will laugh at the irony.