Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[mmh8]

I'm watching on Sky news and they keep reiterating about the Mafia warning off their interpreter, & that Thailand is a thoroughly corrupt country, with hardly any chance of a fair trial!

not often those of the ilk sky cnn etc actually had finger on the pulse. This is a refreshing changewrt dna being finished - it means those who did the testing requireed 10 ml instead of 0.1 ml or similar. everything about the policing is amateur. Truth or not, its incompetance. It could be as simple as someone saying yes I will test the dna evidence and show it is the burmese before any sample is taken. Its like walking onto a building site in which you see the workers standing underneath the skip as the crane attempts to set it down - oits ok cos the sign says SAFETY FIRSTthe mafia warnings could just as easily be the police trying to save the tourist trade on the island - it could be police told by the mayor to control bad publicity with no idea of how it looks, just as easily as it could look the other way. utter incompetance that will remain the unbeleivable circus/comedy/ tragedy it is from start to finish.

[Nigeone]

What a load of BS this is. All these two have done is sign something made up and written by the same human rights lawyer!! This should be dismissed as being 'evidence of their retraction'.
They didn't retract their statements it was done for them.

Perhaps your post is a load of B.S. unless you have proof of what you are saying

I'm no hand writing expert but you don't need to be to see that both letters are written by the same person. Simply look at the dates on both letters and they are identical in every way, as are the loops and style (I used a magnifying glass). I had to laugh when I see the torn out scraps of paper with one sentence scribbled out to make it appear genuine!!.
I don't think it is written in the Myanmar language either and are their signatures for real?
What I would do if I was the prosecutor is ask them to sign a piece of paper - I doubt that they (signatures) would look anything like what's written on the paper.
It is obvious to me that they did it.

Your probably right about the notes but to be honest it has not relevance to the case whatsoever..even if they did write the notes what would you expect them to say..And as for you saying it's obvious they did it..Have you not been reading the posts on this topic .Its only day 2 and without the defense saying anything I haven't heard or seen anything produced by the prosecutors to remotely suggest that they did it.In fact it's only gone to substantially confirm what most! have thought from virtually day one..I respect your rights to a opinion of course but question how you could arrive at it from what's been forthcoming in the last two days

[webfact]

Thailand backpacker murders: DNA evidence 'lost' - police

(BBC) Crucial DNA evidence in the case of the murder of two British backpackers cannot be retested because it no longer exists, Thai police have told the BBC.

The evidence is central to the prosecution case against two Burmese migrants on trial for killing David Miller, 24, from Jersey, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Norfolk.

The defence had wanted it re-examined.

It comes as Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, who both deny murder, rape and robbery, appear in court for a second day.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33457038


-- BBC 2015-07-09

[lucky11]

What a load of BS this is. All these two have done is sign something made up and written by the same human rights lawyer!! This should be dismissed as being 'evidence of their retraction'.

They didn't retract their statements it was done for them.

Perhaps your post is a load of B.S. unless you have proof of what you are saying

I'm no hand writing expert but you don't need to be to see that both letters are written by the same person. Simply look at the dates on both letters and they are identical in every way, as are the loops and style (I used a magnifying glass). I had to laugh when I see the torn out scraps of paper with one sentence scribbled out to make it appear genuine!!.

I don't think it is written in the Myanmar language either and are their signatures for real?

What I would do if I was the prosecutor is ask them to sign a piece of paper - I doubt that they (signatures) would look anything like what's written on the paper.

It is obvious to me that they did it.

Your probably right about the notes but to be honest it has not relevance to the case whatsoever..even if they did write the notes what would you expect them to say..And as for you saying it's obvious they did it..Have you not been reading the posts on this topic .Its only day 2 and without the defense saying anything I haven't heard or seen anything produced by the prosecutors to remotely suggest that they did it.In fact it's only gone to substantially confirm what most! have thought from virtually day one..I respect your rights to a opinion of course but question how you could arrive at it from what's been forthcoming in the last two days

They implicated themselves months ago - I don't believe that a trap was set but they fell in anyway and nobody seemed to pick up on it but me!!

An article that appeared in the Washington Post (I think) stated that, in their own words after they were accused of being the killers/rapists because they (Thai Police) claimed that they had found semen with their DNA on the outside of condoms.

Their response to this was "you can't have found our semen on the outside of condoms because we didn't use them WHEN we violated her"!!

[Nigeone]

Sky News reporter talking about his translator being warned off by mafia

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman/videos/1000772946621286/

So if the translator can no longer work for him how does he know what happened in the Courtroom?

The poster hasn't made himself clear.I want to give you every chance to understand what's happening in the UK on the news.The reporting has not been updated on the news and they have just been repeating what was said over night and this morning prior to the court this morning in Thailand. It was Johnathan Samuels for Sky who's translator was leaned on..be sure when the court finishes over there there will be a updated news report.This is really getting covered and I sense the news channels sense a massive story sadly for the relatives..I'm sorry but once again your clutching at straws and I'm not letting you away with it. Open your eyes to what's happening here by the hour..The case is going out the window very quickly.

[Gweiloman]

What a load of BS this is. All these two have done is sign something made up and written by the same human rights lawyer!! This should be dismissed as being 'evidence of their retraction'.

They didn't retract their statements it was done for them.

Perhaps your post is a load of B.S. unless you have proof of what you are saying

I'm no hand writing expert but you don't need to be to see that both letters are written by the same person. Simply look at the dates on both letters and they are identical in every way, as are the loops and style (I used a magnifying glass). I had to laugh when I see the torn out scraps of paper with one sentence scribbled out to make it appear genuine!!.

I don't think it is written in the Myanmar language either and are their signatures for real?

What I would do if I was the prosecutor is ask them to sign a piece of paper - I doubt that they (signatures) would look anything like what's written on the paper.

It is obvious to me that they did it.

Not only are you not a hand writing expert, your deductive skills are also poorer than most.

One can see clearly that the letter on the right has the words written carefully on top of the lines. The letter on the left has the words written all over the place (some on top, some on the line itself and some in between the lines). I am thinking that you might need a better pair of magnifying glass or maybe just reading glasses?

In any case, as mentioned by another poster, this has nothing to do with the trial. It is not meant to be admitted as evidence as it's not.

As to it being obvious to you that they did it, judging from your analysis of the two letters, I hope you don't take offence that I don't believe in your "conclusion".

[lucky11]

What a load of BS this is. All these two have done is sign something made up and written by the same human rights lawyer!! This should be dismissed as being 'evidence of their retraction'.

They didn't retract their statements it was done for them.

Perhaps your post is a load of B.S. unless you have proof of what you are saying

I'm no hand writing expert but you don't need to be to see that both letters are written by the same person. Simply look at the dates on both letters and they are identical in every way, as are the loops and style (I used a magnifying glass). I had to laugh when I see the torn out scraps of paper with one sentence scribbled out to make it appear genuine!!.

I don't think it is written in the Myanmar language either and are their signatures for real?

What I would do if I was the prosecutor is ask them to sign a piece of paper - I doubt that they (signatures) would look anything like what's written on the paper.

It is obvious to me that they did it.

Your probably right about the notes but to be honest it has not relevance to the case whatsoever..even if they did write the notes what would you expect them to say..And as for you saying it's obvious they did it..Have you not been reading the posts on this topic .Its only day 2 and without the defense saying anything I haven't heard or seen anything produced by the prosecutors to remotely suggest that they did it.In fact it's only gone to substantially confirm what most! have thought from virtually day one..I respect your rights to a opinion of course but question how you could arrive at it from what's been forthcoming in the last two days

They implicated themselves months ago - I don't believe that a trap was set but they fell in anyway and nobody seemed to pick up on it but me!!

An article that appeared in the Washington Post (I think) stated that, in their own words after they were accused of being the killers/rapists because they (Thai Police) claimed that they had found semen with their DNA on the outside of condoms.

Their response to this was "you can't have found our semen on the outside of condoms because we didn't use them WHEN we violated her"!!

[JLCrab]

Forget it -- I posted last March 2015 that if this whole thing is a set-up, they will not be able to pull it off. Here's the link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-27#entry9216377

[dcutman]

Crucial DNA evidence in the case of the murder of two British backpackers cannot be retested because it no longer exists,

Did it ever exist in the first place?

How can one lose the most key piece of evidence? And without it, what case does the prosecution have?

[chickenslegs]

No 2 DNA's Match! Not Now! Not Ever!

You can match DNA of a child to a Parent as in many ways they are close. But being close only counts when you are throwing Horse Shoes or Grenades. Being close doesn't count as Evidence in a Court of Law.

If what you said was true then many DNA Matches they have matched for Crimes could actually be the Father, or Mother, or even a Twin Brother.

GOLDBUGGY,

You misunderstand me.

We all have 50% of our mother's DNA and 50% of our father's DNA. If you take a sample from each parent and compare it to a DNA sample from the scene of a crime it will be apparent whether or not the child of those parents could be a possible match.

I am not suggesting that the child will have identical DNA to that of either parent.

If that is true what you say, then there is also 50% of the Father's DNA, and 50% of the Mother's DNA that the accused doesn't have. So how do you scene that from the Parents to get the exact match with the accused?

I am sorry but I don't buy this. Your Theory and Revolutionary Idea may makes sense to you but not to me. I have never heard of anyone accused of Murder at a Murder Trial by using only the Parents DNA as Evidence, and I doubt you have either.

Let me try again.

50% from the mother + 50% from the father = 100%. The child does not have any DNA except that provided by the parents.

You said that the UK police could not dispute the DNA match without obtaining DNA from the accused.

Here is what I am saying- If the UK police have 'foreign' DNA samples taken from the deceased AND they have DNA samples from each biological parent of the accused they can carry out a comparison.

If the 'foreign' sample does not match to 50% of the mother AND 50% of the father then the 'foreign' sample can not be from their son.

If the 'foreign' sample does match to 50% of the father AND 50% of the mother then the 'foreign' sample MUST be from their son.

That IS evidence. It is 100% certain.

Of course you have never heard of an accused being convicted on the evidence of parents DNA. A DNA sample would always be taken from the accused - but in this case many people are suggesting that the sample from the accused has been tampered with. I am suggesting that there is a way to corroborate the DNA sample without access to the accused.

(In this context 'foreign' means not belonging to the deceased)

[StealthEnergiser]

Koh Tao murders: Defence label witness testimonies ‘inconsistent’

A lawyer representing two Burmese migrant workers standing accused of murder in Thailand said that the testimonies given by prosecution witnesses on Wednesday were inconsistent.

Speaking to DVB on Wednesday evening, Aung Myo Thant said, “Four prosecution witnesses testified at the trial today: a police lieutenant, a forensic doctor, the brother of the Koh Tao island headman and his friend. In summary, none of them could precisely say that the two Burmese youngsters committed the murder. Their testimonies were also inconsistent.”

He said that the police lieutenant provided the court his account on how he went to inspect the crime scene. He was followed in court by the headman’s brother, who owns a nearby bar, who testified that he informed the police after his employees told him they had discovered the bodies of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge on the beach. He added that his chef went out and picked up the suspects’ guitar, which he handed over to police.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-defence-label-witness-testimonies-inconsistent/54635

[lucky11]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

[Cuchulainn]

The coppers really are making bigger fools of themselves (if that's possible).

[Heisenberg01]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene,

Instead of keep repeating this can you provide a link to them saying this?

[fritzzz25]

This has truly become a circus sideshow. Good to see that only the RTP's finest have been hard at work on this.

[Gweiloman]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

There's no confusion because the B2 never said what you alleged. It seems to me that you're the one that's confused (and maybe a bit dim too).

[loonodingle]

Sky News reporter talking about his translator being warned off by mafia

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman/videos/1000772946621286/

So if the translator can no longer work for him how does he know what happened in the Courtroom?

The poster hasn't made himself clear.I want to give you every chance to understand what's happening in the UK on the news.The reporting has not been updated on the news and they have just been repeating what was said over night and this morning prior to the court this morning in Thailand. It was Johnathan Samuels for Sky who's translator was leaned on..be sure when the court finishes over there there will be a updated news report.This is really getting covered and I sense the news channels sense a massive story sadly for the relatives..I'm sorry but once again your clutching at straws and I'm not letting you away with it. Open your eyes to what's happening here by the hour..The case is going out the window very quickly.

Unfortunately there is a set of posters who wouldn't listen from day 1. They had made their minds up from the start. There comments are fairly hollow now.

I spoke to the coroners office who is handling Hannah's case and whilst he wouldn't comment directly he said it is normal practice to carry out a forensic Autopsy if the condition of the body permits. I am not privy to the results how ever the insinuations are that there will be a game changing revelation. The Defence are letting the prosecution dig a big hole first.

Only 2 days in and its falling apart. Lets hope both family's speak up. There not daft, they are educated people. They also know that the UK police where denied access to the forensic data back last November.

Such a shame that whatever happens nobody will know the truth it seems.

[Bmouthboyo]

Just read on BBC news the DNA evidence is lost?!

[sambum]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

Edited July 9, 2015 by sambum

[lucky11]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene,

Instead of keep repeating this can you provide a link to them saying this?

It comes from the Washington post - an article by Terrence McCoy written on October 10 2014.

If there is any bias in said article then it is blatantly in their defence!!

Edited July 9, 2015 by lucky11

[lucky11]

Just read on BBC news the DNA evidence is lost?!

Not lost - there is none left.

[catterwell]

The handwriting and ink looks the same to me. The language is standard Burmese. I don't think the signatures are the same. It looks like someone took statements from the two accused and then had them append their respective signatures. What all this means in the legal process - I have no idea.

[Bmouthboyo]

Christ what a shambles. They really don't do themselves any favours.

[cumgranosalum]

The chances of a fair trial here were nil from the start

Throw out the case and start sacking a few police officers......thanks to their incompetence there can NVER be a satisfactory solution regardless of who anyone thinks is responsible - Thailand should be thoroughly ashamed of the way this has been handles right from the start - incompetence and inappropriate remarks by various people who should have known better........I hope the international community makes their feelings about all this known to the Thai authorities - they should hang their heads in shame!

Edited July 9, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[StealthEnergiser]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

Its impossible to read anything into that they had been tortured into the confessions and had a translator that assaulted them.

Edited July 9, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[asdecas]

It is desperately tragic for the families of the victims that, from the outset, this has been a farcical travesty of justice. It shows no sign of abating, and the waters are now so muddied that the truth will likely never be known.

How ineffably sad in what purports to be a devoutly Buddhist country. One can only empathise with all those to whom these two young people were dear.

[nuananddon]

So much talk regarding the DNA testing, maybe the focus should be on how the DNA was obtained, by who, and the sequence of events handling etc. prior to testing?

Exactly correct, the police took DNA samples from many people, what's saying they didn't take that DNA and mix it with samples from the victims and say we have the criminals DNA on the victims so these two boys are diffinetly the ones that committed this crime. Not rocket science!

[smurph]

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

[bunglebag]

This is very disturbing, tweet just in from Jonathan Samuels:

Our Thai translator at backpacker murder trial says she's been 'warned off' by 'the Mafia'. Elements here clearly fear a fair trial

https://twitter.com/jonathansamuels

Looking at the last few tweets about the trial from him it sounds like this kangeroo court is not even bothered about hiding the fact that this just a setup and a visibly dubious trial at very best. Carry on like this and the rest of the world will see it for what it is, but still unable to actually DO anything about it, apart from apply pressure via the media.

The real perps will never face court/justice but the B2 may just get off.

I feel very sorry for the families if they saw graphic pictures of their loved ones in court

[jspill]

From the Samui Times today:-

"A decision was due to be made by the judge today as to whether independent DNA testing could be carried out. However a senior police officer today told the court that the DNA found on the cigarettes is finished and other samples were only suitable for one test or may have been lost."

"Finished" "Lost" Now there's a surprise! (Especially the "may have" bit!) And from a "senior" police officer!

What a farce lol.

And lol at JDinasia still playing the apologist, haven't opened a Koh Tao thread in a while and sure enough there he is.