Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[thailandchilli]

Of course it's the same Sean. Clearly.

Sean at AC bar

[6NS]

Of course it's the same Sean. Clearly.

Have you listened to the song I STOLE THE WORLD.

Everything I thought now I must re-think.

Maybe Sean was one of the gang who did it.

Maybe this is why he was allowed to leave. I know this sounds like a bigger reason to rid him but maybe they became like trusted partners.

[Neilly]

Sean's an ok musician and songwriter. Tho he could enunciate better. Perhaps it's the Kurt Cobain influence of slurring words.

I was trying to gauge whether the song was perhaps a commentary on the Ko Tao crime, but couldn't decipher his brand of English.

Hello Boomerangutang,

But this song righter is not the Sean from the Ko Tao murders, is he?

Did you listen to all the songs? The third song!!! I am taken back.

I hope this song righter is not the Sean from Ko Tao.

Check out the guitar....

[StealthEnergiser]

The B2 should be released on bail or let the army protect them .

The PM should be made aware of the errors and high possibility that this is a stitch including translaters being threatened.

The PM should remove all police involved to non duty positions until the case is over and thorough investigation is done including every phone call made in that area at the time of the killings.

He must be made aware a cover up is highly likely and the b2 are scapegoats.

[ttthailand]

I see Sean Mcanna has changed his name. The guilty parties(IMO) The Island mafia were wanting to kill him, I wonder why? He should on the stand.

it wouldn't surprise me if he was involved and when things went too far he separated from his Thai island friends. Feeling guilty he started to tell people little hints about what really happened and that's when they came after him, to shut him up. It was either kill him or let him leave the island and keep his mouth shut, after all he was just as guilty as the other two or three.

Just a guess ....

[StealthEnergiser]

Migrants, justice and the Koh Tao murder case

Prior to British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller’s heinous murders last September, migrant workers’ presence and everyday lives on Koh Tao were not publicly discussed. This situation abruptly changed once migrants were identified by case investigators as key suspects behind the killings.

For the Migrant Worker Rights Network (MWRN), this spotlight on migrants created opportunities to better understand the significant challenges these workers face across Koh Tao and the neighbouring islands of Koh Phangan and Koh Samui. This exploration supplemented work of the legal defense team for Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun (a.k.a. Wai Phyo), the two 21-year-old Burmese men eventually prosecuted for the killings.

As the trial of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo approaches, considering the history of discrimination against and exploitation of migrants in Thailand and how this may have influenced the murder investigation and subsequent prosecutions is worthwhile. These considerations have ramifications on the potential to realise justice for the deceased, accused and their families as well as for migrant communities who are following the case closely.

https://www.dvb.no/analysis/migrants-justice-and-the-koh-tao-murder-case-burma-myanmar-thailand/53475

[6NS]

I see Sean Mcanna has changed his name. The guilty parties(IMO) The Island mafia were wanting to kill him, I wonder why? He should on the stand.

it wouldn't surprise me if he was involved and when things went too far he separated from his Thai island friends. Feeling guilty he started to tell people little hints about what really happened and that's when they came after him, to shut him up. It was either kill him or let him leave the island and keep his mouth shut, after all he was just as guilty as the other two or three.

Just a guess ....

The song sounds like an admittance from afar to me.

I've written poetry before and everything that came out was subjects and feelings I was then going through.

He could have said "there" "we" bust said I STOLE THE WORLD.

[Eirene]

Have you listened to the song I STOLE THE WORLD.

Everything I thought now I must re-think.

Maybe Sean was one of the gang who did it.

Maybe this is why he was allowed to leave. I know this sounds like a bigger reason to rid him but maybe they became like trusted partners.

This song was posted here on April 5, 2014 - http://www.backpackbagvideo.com/video/9834662186/stole-the-world-sean-mcanna-and-andy-gregory-original-/

He wrote it for his girlfriend.

Edit: to repair quote.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Eirene

[StealthEnergiser]

Of course it's the same Sean. Clearly.

Sean at AC bar

[phuketandsee]

Well, time to go.

I have seen and heard enough speculation and I don't want to speculate on anything. I am sure that justice well be served in a court of law.

It might be in a court of law. Sadly this is clearly not one

[6NS]

I see Sean Mcanna has changed his name. The guilty parties(IMO) The Island mafia were wanting to kill him, I wonder why? He should on the stand.

it wouldn't surprise me if he was involved and when things went too far he separated from his Thai island friends. Feeling guilty he started to tell people little hints about what really happened and that's when they came after him, to shut him up. It was either kill him or let him leave the island and keep his mouth shut, after all he was just as guilty as the other two or three.

Just a guess ....

The song sounds like an admittance from afar to me.

I've written poetry before and everything that came out was subjects and feelings I was then going through.

He could have said "there" "we" bust said I STOLE THE WORLD.

Some typos here.

Should have read he could have said "THEY" or "WE" but said I STOLE THE WORLD.

[z42]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

Jdinasia thinks that's funny, and I'm sure Crab is trying to be witty, but upon reflection, that could be true.

Nomsod is a young man at college in Bkk. His family and home village are a few hours away. It's a weekend, he wants to see his family and his buddies. Completely natural for a college student to split for the weekend.

He knew he needed to be back at school by Monday morning. So it's quite plausible that he could have had a pre-paid return ticket for Monday morning. P.S. he's from a rich family, so the price of a plane ticket is pocket change.

Now this may surprise many here but lets's say what you say is true. It does make good logical sense he may have wanted to be home for the weekend, and it was a weekend. Many people have put forth a good argument to say he was their. So for the sake of an argument lets' say he was there on the night in question, which was a Sunday Night on September 14th and Monday morning September 15th. .

That would mean he would have had to have lied about being at his Dorm. That would mean the CCTV Footage of him being their would be false also. Could you pay 2 low paid security guards to change that? I think so. Do they have the knowledge to change the time and date? I doubt it. Or at least the ones I ever met. But I suppose somebody could. I don't really know myself as I never tried.

But again, for the sake of an argument, lets say they did that. But then that grainy CCTV Footage of him on the streets on the Island, which to me could be any young boy or young girl even, could also be tampered with to. But to go with the crowd, that's say it wasn't and it was him on the island late on September 14th and early the 15th. But does that prove he is guilty or rape and murder?

Did he have a reason to leave the island early, other than what people suspect here? Well, he did have an exam to write that Monday Morning in Bangkok, which has been proven, and as many pointed out he had to catch an early flight to do that. So other then running away from something, he may have also been just rushing to get somewhere. If he had a prepaid ticket, then planning this murder would have been impossible ahead of time, so only possible on the night of the murders.

But here is the kicker! He had his DNA Tested in front of a crowd of people, including police, his lawyer, and media. His DNA Tested Negative and did not match with Hannah's DNA. If this was a forgone conclusion, then why go through all this trouble and lie to say he was not on the island. Why not say he was on the island, if he really was, but left early as he had an exam to write, that he did not commit the murders and knew nothing about them, and that his DNA Test proves that.

But then maybe he told his Girlfriend that he was going to stay home that weekend and study, but instead took off to the island and rang up and old Girlfriend. Then wanted to hide that from his new Girlfriend. Who knows? But if he did lie, that makes him a liar, not a rapist and killer. If his DNA was tampered with, you would need proof of that, and since he is not a suspect anymore, the chances of getting that is next to impossible.

It does surprise me though that I have seen so many posts here in how these 2 accused tiny but physically fit men could not take on a big man like David even with a garden hoe. But now, and on the other hand, you have this tiny Nomsad guy, who looks like a young boy, with a gimpy arm to boot and who probably couldn't even hold a garden hoe to attack with, and that Hannah could have probably taken him on by herself and with her purse. But all of a sudden, you now have this small tiny man, with the gimpy arm, becoming Mighty Mouse.

Go Figure?

.

Sorry goldbuggy, but there are so many ifs and buts in your prophecy there. Any diligent investigation team would at least do some questioning as to where the CCTV came from, most obviously which employee from the condo building gave the tape to Nomsod's lawyer, and what authorization / motivation s/he had to do pass it on to him.

Also there was the issue of furniture which had been moved previously in the shot. That same person if identified could quite clearly have cleared that up too if a diligent investigator had pressed them on that issue.

And the exam in the University, surely a University lecturer knows if a student is present for an examination or not. He was either there or he wasn't. His paper was either submitted on the day or it wasn't. A diligent investigator would ask these simple questions to the lecturer in question. If the answers check out, then nomsod's alibi gains more credibility.

CCTV footage can be manipulated very easily, especially when there is no chain of custody (by source / law enforcement personnel) for it.

And as for the running man footage, how many others with nomsod's exact physical characteristics and nervous tics would be running around at 5am near nomsod's family businesses. The chances are probably in the billions. Also police commander panya made a speech to the press about there being CCTV evidence implicating mon and another close relative now in BKK. Why would he say that if not true, and why would the CCTV now not be available (a rhetorical question now obviously).

He may be innocent, but the lack of investigation and foresight prior to clearing him is very alarming. Nowhere near the levels of due diligence required for a case of this magnitude, and that is indisputable

[sprq]

Goldbuggy, I strongly suggest you read up on what led up to the trial. Either knowingly or unwittingly, you play fast and loose with what's been reported/announced during the past months. The last video of the 3 boys on the mototbike was around 5 hours before the crime. The cig but wasn't found at the crime scene, but over 50 meters away. Using those two bits of info, the RTP are saying a person is a murderer and rapist if he goes to a store 5 hours before a crime, and/or if he drops a cig but on a beach 50 meters from a crime scene.

Oh sorry, almost forgot, there's also the damning DNA evidence. The evidence which the Thai PM says, "if it's a match, then they must be the murderers." One slight problem; We're finding now that the RTP don't have that evidence, .....or maybe they do, ....or maybe it's all used up (pick which announcement suits). Either way, if they have it, it's probably someplace in Bangkok or maybe still in the Headman's fridge. As my dad might say, "I trust those guys as far as I can throw them."

Oh, and the crime very likely took place between 4:40 and 5 am. So most, if not all the CCTV hours prior doesn't have much bearing. Same for the cig butt and the condom.

It reminds me when I went to a Thai police station for the first time to report a stolen motorbike, Besides the fact that the man taking my statement was typing about 3 words per minute on a Thai typewriter, ...the cops were asking all the wrong questions! I didn't speak Thai well-enough to tell them that, and of course my Thai interpreter was too polite to suggest anything to policemen. After the 2.5 hour questioning which went nowhere, the told me that the person who stole it probably took it across the Myanmar border (1 hur north) to sell. I was aghast. I said, "why didn't you immediately contact the border guards and tell them to be on the lookout for that motorbike?!" They said, "oh, probably too late already."

I've had other encounters with Thai cops which indicate similar out-to-lunch mentality, so am not surprised at what's been happening in this KT investigation.

Par for the course in my experience, having had my house burgled twice. They don't have a clue about detection

[sprq]

Well, time to go.

I have seen and heard enough speculation and I don't want to speculate on anything. I am sure that justice well be served in a court of law.

In a Thai court of law? You must be joking.

[boomerangutang]

Well, time to go. I have seen and heard enough speculation and I don't want to speculate on anything. I am sure that justice well be served in a court of law.

After plodding thru your many speculative long-winded posts, often based on mis-guided assumptions, all I can say to you is, bye bye.

[loonodingle]

I see Sean Mcanna has changed his name. The guilty parties(IMO) The Island mafia were wanting to kill him, I wonder why? He should on the stand.

My heart is so thumping now.

Everyone must listen to these songs he's written and singing. Watch all the videos.

I'm without words.

I think I get it now. This can not be the Sean from the Island of Ko Tao that fateful night.

Wow, I was beside myself there.

Oh But It Is The One and Only Sean McAnna. The same guy who spilled the beans on the real killers.

[Johnniey]

I see Sean Mcanna has changed his name. The guilty parties(IMO) The Island mafia were wanting to kill him, I wonder why? He should on the stand.

it wouldn't surprise me if he was involved and when things went too far he separated from his Thai island friends. Feeling guilty he started to tell people little hints about what really happened and that's when they came after him, to shut him up. It was either kill him or let him leave the island and keep his mouth shut, after all he was just as guilty as the other two or three.

Just a guess ....

The song sounds like an admittance from afar to me.

I've written poetry before and everything that came out was subjects and feelings I was then going through.

He could have said "there" "we" bust said I STOLE THE WORLD.

Some typos here.

Should have read he could have said "THEY" or "WE" but said I STOLE THE WORLD.

The song was there before but under you original name. I think it was written before the said murders.

[Eirene]

You are correct Johnniey - see my post 1448 page 58.

[Emster23]

GIGO comes to mind: Garbage In, Garbage Out. Seems all evidence has been so jumbled up, tampered, fabricated that would be impossible to make case against anyone. IATA records only as good as what goes in from terminal, and if kid flew to BKK could have just put any name on there, and what check in counter person going to question that.

I have some faith in Pornthip. Recall she stood up to get DNA samples from Tsunami victims in spite of harassment by authorities. But she can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

[Zeberdee]

I don't think it gets as much press coverage as it should here in the UK.

Most people here (who have not been following the case) think the B2 are guilty.

[6NS]

You are correct Johnniey - see my post 1448 page 58.

Thanks guys and sorry for not looking closer.

[Johnniey]

Of course it's the same Sean. Clearly.

Have you listened to the song I STOLE THE WORLD.

Everything I thought now I must re-think.

Maybe Sean was one of the gang who did it.

Maybe this is why he was allowed to leave. I know this sounds like a bigger reason to rid him but maybe they became like trusted partners.

He must have been. Have you ever been to Wishaw? One of the roughest places on earth!

[Johnniey]

I see Sean Mcanna has changed his name. The guilty parties(IMO) The Island mafia were wanting to kill him, I wonder why? He should on the stand.

My heart is so thumping now.

Everyone must listen to these songs he's written and singing. Watch all the videos.

I'm without words.

I think I get it now. This can not be the Sean from the Island of Ko Tao that fateful night.

Wow, I was beside myself there.

Oh But It Is The One and Only Sean McAnna. The same guy who spilled the beans on the real killers.

So we all know yet we are not even detectives. Why are the British police hushing it up? Must be something to do with that creep Cameron who probably went to Eton with someone high up in the Thai government.

[BritTim]

September 20, 2014

By this time a group of Burmese Migrant Workers had already been interviewed by Police after blood stains were found on their clothes.

It seems to me that if they were really looking for scapegoats this would have been the perfect time to do it and over a week earlier. Just dab a little of Hannah's or David's Blood on them, and Bingo! You have a match! Since many people here believe the DNA was just fabricated for the 2 accused, then it would have been just as easy to do here for 2 or 3 of them. The crime also took place in the wee hours of the morning, so surely not everyone had a Iron Clad Alibi.

But did the Police do this, when they easily could have? No! They released these Migrant Workers and continued to pursue what they thought at the time to be was 3 Westerners playing their guitar at the beach near the time of the murders.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/thailand-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-police

I think they were looking for scapegoats from the beginning. However, the frame up needed to have a measure of plausible deniability. It was not just a matter of finding a couple of Burmese without iron clad alibis. There needed to be at least a smidgen of evidence that they were close to the scene of the crime on the night in question. Ideally, they needed at least three suspects, preferably physically powerful individuals who could be shown to have been involved in violence before. It is a measure of the police's desperation that they ended up with these two diminutive mild mannered individuals (though they thought at the time they would be able to implicate a third, slightly larger, Burmese also).

[Lupatria]

Deeply sorry, I don't buy any bits unless the forensic evidences are tested by Khunying Pornthip or the Scotland Yards.

Pornthip is Thai,

in Thailand she could be influenced

she could lose her job or more

I am not buying her independence

Maybe it helps if you check out her history with the BIB. More than once she was threatened for the results of her research as it did not comply with some "suicides" stated by the cops. Once she even had to hire bodyguards because of this. I don't think she has changed her mind yet.

[Johnniey]

For those who don't undrstand the Thainess of this case look at the following with English subtitles available.

[Lite Beer]

Is Thai murder trial set to collapse?

KOH SAMUI: -- Families of British backpackers fly home as defence lawyers call for suspects to be acquitted over claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders

The families of murdered British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller flew home from Thailand yesterday as the legal team representing the accused claimed the case was on the verge of collapse.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo face a possible death penalty if they are convicted of sexually assaulting and killing Hannah, 23, with a hoe, and clubbing David, 24, unconscious before leaving him to drown on a beach on Kao Tao island last September.

Hannah’s father and brother, and David’s parents and brother last week flew to neighbouring Kao Samui for the three-day opening of the trial, where they were visibly shocked as photographs of the bodies were casually handed around the court.

The case – marred by claims of missing evidence and crime-scene blunders – was adjourned yesterday until July 22 while the defendants’ lawyers prepare to call for their acquittal.

‘We hope by the end of the prosecution case, we will have destroyed it and we will show that it is completely lacking in credibility,’ said Andy Hall, a British migrant rights activist working with defence lawyers.

Mr Hall said the defence held ‘incredibly significant information from an independent authority’ with which it would discredit the prosecution case when the trial reopens. He declined to give more details but the information is believed to relate to DNA samples obtained from Hannah’s body after it was returned to the UK.

Kao Tao’s migrant workers were subjected to mass DNA testing before Zaw and Wai, both 22, were arrested amid global media attention and intense pressure on police to find the killers.

The pair confessed to the murders but later withdrew their statements, claiming police had tortured them. Police insist they have DNA evidence linking them to the murders but said key samples could not be independently tested because they had been ‘used up’ by forensics teams. They also admitted the crime scene had been contaminated, and that the hoe was removed before it was forensically examined.

Police have been accused of making scapegoats of migrants amid claims that the real killers were Thai men linked to powerful families who are said to run Kao Tao.
David’s father said on Friday the families were ‘keeping an open mind’. The trial is due to last until September, with a verdict expected in October.

--Mail Online: 2015-07-12

[Nbarch]

If the trial does collapse, do we think anybody senior in the police force or government will resign?

Lets hope that the poor Burmese guys are properly compensated for having to go through this terrible ordeal.

[TEFLKrabi]

Does anyone have a transcript to show what was actually said about the DNA being lost. I'd love to know which words were mistranslated?

[Mezzad]

I think it could be the B2 do it or thai mafia but police must give truly evidence for each, police playing bing bong which lead me to believe it's the mafia,

If anyone know the saudi diplomatics who killed in 1989 and the blue diamond case for the saudi prince, justice in Thailand depends on the power of coruppted high class people.

I visited Thailand 7 times in 4 yrs

And I will never go back again, y?

If I go it's mean I give another mafia the reason to kill more n more farang

What we can all do is stop go thailand

It's for Hannah and David and it's for all people who killed "suicide" in thailand, killed in road accident, fall from hot balcony, heart attack, hang him her self,

It's a a big list for many many crime list

For me I change the name into

Dieland

And

Koh die

If u want go u die ur self

Everyday about 6 hours checking Internet for the killer

Could be the B2

Cloud be the "mafia" as Mr. Sonthi mention but the police give nothing and hide many

With Dieland I heard different storeis for people passed away young people

thier fault they love Dieland

But it's one side love

Lead to the grave

Sorry I did love Dieland but cant go again

I don't want to die there