Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[GOLDBUGGY]

...about the cigarettes butts. They were found at the crime scene

Says who? Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. How can anybody believe anything the BIB say? They have zero credibility, especially in this particular double murder case.

60 Meteres way.or 190 foot. that's 4 and half artic trailers away.

A considerable distance

How do you know? Are you the one who found them? I think you're just repeating what you've read or heard. We don't know if what was said or written was the truth or not.

Well at least it is based on something I read reported by an assumed credible media report stating it came from a good sources and someone in the know. I have Linked Umpteen posts here to confirm this.

So that is all we have right now. With conflicting stories from both sides, even that is getting very difficult to do sometimes. Lost Evidence, found Evidence, Evidence not lost but DNA lost, DNA not lost but used up, some DNA still their but some lost and some used up, the DNA is not here because it is their. Damn! I get it wrong to sometimes from all this to.

But since nobody knows the actual truth, are you suggesting that we all just keep quiet about it and go away? If so, you can start with yourself as you don't know the truth either..

[sweatalot]

Deeply sorry, I don't buy any bits unless the forensic evidences are tested by Khunying Pornthip or the Scotland Yards.

Pornthip is Thai,

in Thailand she could be influenced

she could lose her job or more

I am not buying her independence

[boomerangutang]

Why would the RTP/ Crown Prosecutorial team allow this to be such a point of contention and confusion so early in the trial when a simple few diligent steps taken months ago could have negated this whole issue and made the DNA evidence solid and irrefutable

A simple poetic answer: they're building the foundation of their case on wet beach sand - and the tide is coming in.

I very rarely post these days due to lack of time but I seem to remember something on this forum in the early days about the Hoe not being the murder weapon and was used after the event to remove "evidence" from the body. It would be interesting to know if the original suspect had a licenced (or otherwise ) firearm. Possibly the post mortem in the UK found some evidence of this. Just my two setang's worth.

That is one of 189 questions the investigators either didn't look for, didn't think to ask, ...or found out about, and didn't like what they found (because it implicated the wrong people) so the data was stuffed.

Speaking of weapons, that's one of the basic things the Brit coroner is supposed to determine - yet it's another thing which she won't divulge to us little people, or perhaps to anyone, at this time. If anyone speaks with the coroner, tell her to do her job, and remind her who she works for: British Subjects, the folks who pay her salary. I doubt they pay her to sit on her hands and whistle 'God Save The Queen'.

Another thing the cops didn't look for, are weaponized rings made from shark's teeth - the type of weapon which would explain David's shallow clean uniform-sized stabbing wounds (highly unlikely caused by a blunt cement-encrunsted hoe). At least one of the young tough guys who hang out at Mon's AC bar has been shown to wear a weaponized ring like that. Of course he hasn't worn that ring since the crime.

[gemguy]

Retesting the DNA over again???

Hmmm...that would be the right thing to do....as long as the whole affair is not corrupted once again, like it was in the first place

Just saying.

Cheers

[boomerangutang]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

LOL Crab.

Again IATA keeps records of all passengers on all flights if the airline has any international destinations.

Access to the data is easy. How do you think Yingluck's flight data got out

If access is easy, let's see it. I know it (passenger manifest + CCTV of boarding and off-loading of that flight) won't be available. It's about as likely as the KT fast-boat operator coming forward and telling why he went off and slept in the forest, the night after the murder, and when cops found him, cops said he was too drugged to speak coherently, so they left him alone from that day onward.

[thailandchilli]

Deeply sorry, I don't buy any bits unless the forensic evidences are tested by Khunying Pornthip or the Scotland Yards.

Pornthip is Thai,

in Thailand she could be influenced

she could lose her job or more

I am not buying her independence

Absolutely, she was promoted to Chief of Forensics in Dec by the Junta, she appeared to be critical of the initial forensic gathering in the case but she is not independent.

To have an internationally recognized independent test of the DNA then we all know what that means and its not the Thai style one.

[boomerangutang]

Retesting the DNA over again??? Hmmm...that would be the right thing to do....as long as the whole affair is not corrupted once again, like it was in the first place. Just saying. Cheers

It's interesting that the B2 and the defense are eager to get all the DNA re-examined. That's not the action of people who are hiding things. In contrast, Nomsod hid from police for several days - while he knew police were looking for him as being a prime suspect - early in the investigation. And when he was found, he refused to offer any sample for DNA testing. A while later, there was the press corps event where NS's DNA was tested. His dad, his lawyer, the police chief were all there. No one doubted what the result would be in such an orchestrated scene.

Now fastforward to the present. The same Chief of Police is being asked to provide DNA. Would you trust the veracity of those samples? ....particularly the samples he passes to the new examiners labeled "DNA taken from Hannah" ? If so, you're a lot more trusting in the integrity of the RTP than I am.

That's why justice needs the British coroner to step out from the shadows.

[boomerangutang]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

Jdinasia thinks that's funny, and I'm sure Crab is trying to be witty, but upon reflection, that could be true.

Nomsod is a young man at college in Bkk. His family and home village are a few hours away. It's a weekend, he wants to see his family and his buddies. Completely natural for a college student to split for the weekend.

He knew he needed to be back at school by Monday morning. So it's quite plausible that he could have had a pre-paid return ticket for Monday morning. P.S. he's from a rich family, so the price of a plane ticket is pocket change.

[GOLDBUGGY]

the evidence is not lost it is all a misunderstanding then why isn't it at koh samui where it should be? the condom I would ascertain that may belong to david miller unused / bite marks on hannahs body animalistic a possible thai link cigarette butts what type of cigarettes a saliva test would determine who was at the scene of the crime .

Apparently the cigarette butt was found quite a distance from the crime scene. As a previous poster has said, even if the DNA of one or both suspects was on the butt, all it proves is that they were on the beach smoking a cigarette in the vicinity of the crime scene. It could have been well before the murders took place, and as far as I know, it is not against the law to smoke a cigarette on a beach! They would maybe get a 2000 baht fine for littering though!

As mention many times believe what you want to believe. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

But I do have a question for you, if you don't mind. What significance would a Cigarette Butt sitting by some log on the beach have worthiness enough to preform a DNA Test on, and where the accused already admitted to be sitting? They could get DNA Samples from them anytime.

Consider the time frame and that the bodies were discovered the next morning at 6:30 am, then consider the time the Beach Cleaners went home after that day's work. How many other people after that walked from their residence, where Hannah and David were staying, or from that area, and on the beach path passed the log on there way to the bars, smoking cigarettes, and dropping them on the beach? Also the same people coming back from the bars and doing the same?

Does it not make more logical sense that Cigarette Butts found at a crime scene when both the victims didn't smoke, are significant enough to do DNA Testing on, as it could point to a possible suspect or witness?

[sweatalot]

LOL Crab.

Again IATA keeps records of all passengers on all flights if the airline has any international destinations.

Access to the data is easy. How do you think Yingluck's flight data got out

Awesome. If it's so easy will you be posting the information later.

If you can't be bothered feel free to send me the process and I will post it so we can nullify those pesky Conspiracy theorists.

hopefully the defense team has this information ....

[phuketandsee]

Funds needed by the MWRN to bring British crime scene and forensic experts over to Samui for the Koh Tao murder trial

KOH SAMUI: -- The Migrant Workers Rights Network (MWRN) is looking for support in order to raise funds urgently required to fly UK based crime scene investigators and forensic experts to Samui to appear as witnesses in September.

The defense team has said that it has received unspecified information and evidence from UK authorities that was ‘not consistent” with findings obtained from Thai authorities and used by the prosecution in the cases.

The defense team has asked the court for independent tests to be carried out on DNA however the vital DNA evidence that links the two defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the body of one of the victims cannot be produced for retesting.

Pol Col Somkiat Kaewmook, deputy chief of Surat Thani provincial police, said: “Some forensic materials were used up in the testing process, which means they do not exist.”

The MWRN and the defense team have long believed that the two defendants are being used as scapegoats and continue to fight for justice for the two men, both 22 and working as barmen on Koh Tao at the time of the murders. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen.

-- Samui Times 2015-07-11

Thats was quick!!

Because some of us are putting our wallets where our mouths (keyboards) are

[Lorn]

Thailand is the only country in the world, where the chief suspect for a serious double murder charge is given a televised DNA test in front of the country's police chief!

That charade was simply incredible, even for Thailand.

Actually if he'd been a suspect at the time it might have made some sense. The police chief taking time out of his busy schedule to have a press conference for someone who had already been cleared just to silence some baseless internet rumors (if that's all they were) makes none.

[TPI]

Mr Nakhon if you expect justice to be done i would expect all parties to be able to scrutinise evidence and ask serious questions of the investigative process.

I feel dreadfully sorry for the boys on trial. I just can't see how they did it when all viable evidence points elsewhere. They've suffered enough so hope they are acquitted sooner rather than later

Explain how all viable evidence points elsewhere?

We have suspects and we will be presented with evidence in court. If they are not good enough the "boys" will be set free,

The police contaminated the crime scene, they all handled the assumed murder weapon and they chased who they reasonably believed were the perp's! That is until they realised what family they belonged to! Then .....ooops! It's not any of the suspects we reasonably thouight had done it so we guess someone else will have to do?

This is typical "Thai justice" is it not?

[Transporter]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

and Prayut could actually be God, we just dont know ... RTP could actually also be there to help and assist the people instead of robbing them ...

Balo, You must get your dosage increased!

[GOLDBUGGY]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

Jdinasia thinks that's funny, and I'm sure Crab is trying to be witty, but upon reflection, that could be true.

Nomsod is a young man at college in Bkk. His family and home village are a few hours away. It's a weekend, he wants to see his family and his buddies. Completely natural for a college student to split for the weekend.

He knew he needed to be back at school by Monday morning. So it's quite plausible that he could have had a pre-paid return ticket for Monday morning. P.S. he's from a rich family, so the price of a plane ticket is pocket change.

Now this may surprise many here but lets's say what you say is true. It does make good logical sense he may have wanted to be home for the weekend, and it was a weekend. Many people have put forth a good argument to say he was their. So for the sake of an argument lets' say he was there on the night in question, which was a Sunday Night on September 14th and Monday morning September 15th. .

That would mean he would have had to have lied about being at his Dorm. That would mean the CCTV Footage of him being their would be false also. Could you pay 2 low paid security guards to change that? I think so. Do they have the knowledge to change the time and date? I doubt it. Or at least the ones I ever met. But I suppose somebody could. I don't really know myself as I never tried.

But again, for the sake of an argument, lets say they did that. But then that grainy CCTV Footage of him on the streets on the Island, which to me could be any young boy or young girl even, could also be tampered with to. But to go with the crowd, that's say it wasn't and it was him on the island late on September 14th and early the 15th. But does that prove he is guilty or rape and murder?

Did he have a reason to leave the island early, other than what people suspect here? Well, he did have an exam to write that Monday Morning in Bangkok, which has been proven, and as many pointed out he had to catch an early flight to do that. So other then running away from something, he may have also been just rushing to get somewhere. If he had a prepaid ticket, then planning this murder would have been impossible ahead of time, so only possible on the night of the murders.

But here is the kicker! He had his DNA Tested in front of a crowd of people, including police, his lawyer, and media. His DNA Tested Negative and did not match with Hannah's DNA. If this was a forgone conclusion, then why go through all this trouble and lie to say he was not on the island. Why not say he was on the island, if he really was, but left early as he had an exam to write, that he did not commit the murders and knew nothing about them, and that his DNA Test proves that.

But then maybe he told his Girlfriend that he was going to stay home that weekend and study, but instead took off to the island and rang up and old Girlfriend. Then wanted to hide that from his new Girlfriend. Who knows? But if he did lie, that makes him a liar, not a rapist and killer. If his DNA was tampered with, you would need proof of that, and since he is not a suspect anymore, the chances of getting that is next to impossible.

It does surprise me though that I have seen so many posts here in how these 2 accused tiny but physically fit men could not take on a big man like David even with a garden hoe. But now, and on the other hand, you have this tiny Nomsad guy, who looks like a young boy, with a gimpy arm to boot and who probably couldn't even hold a garden hoe to attack with, and that Hannah could have probably taken him on by herself and with her purse. But all of a sudden, you now have this small tiny man, with the gimpy arm, becoming Mighty Mouse.

Go Figure?

.

[Mooner]

This crime was committed by at least 3 perps as early stories implied.

Remember 3 sets of DNA. I would guess a couple more.

[Ajahnski]

So much talk regarding the DNA testing, maybe the focus should be on how the DNA was obtained, by who, and the sequence of events handling etc. prior to testing?

Well said. Is the chain of custody for the evidence complete? If so, how credible is it - given what we have already read about the crime scene not being secured at all . . .? From my personal experience with various Thai police, I have extreme difficulty putting enough faith in their evidence to forfeit the lives of two young men . . .

[berybert]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

LOL Crab.

Again IATA keeps records of all passengers on all flights if the airline has any international destinations.

Access to the data is easy. How do you think Yingluck's flight data got out

After 10 months of defending the RTP you have yet to post a comment regarding the trial ! Come one you must still be 100% sure these two did it. Think about the money you/your mates stand to lose if this all goes wrong. The RTP need your support now more than ever.

Don't worry about your credibility, you lost that many moons ago.

[rockingrobin]

Goldbuggy

With regards to Nomsod , if as in one of your possible scenario he lied about his presence on the island , the reason for this deceit can only be answered by himself

The uni/dorm cctv image does not provide an alibi, there is a cctv image taken on Friday evening , and the next image is 09:15 monday morning, There is a huge gap in the time frame unaccounted for, now they may well be an innocent explanation but none as been forthcoming

I dont think anybody is putting forward that the murders was committed by one person ,

[berybert]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

Jdinasia thinks that's funny, and I'm sure Crab is trying to be witty, but upon reflection, that could be true.

Nomsod is a young man at college in Bkk. His family and home village are a few hours away. It's a weekend, he wants to see his family and his buddies. Completely natural for a college student to split for the weekend.

He knew he needed to be back at school by Monday morning. So it's quite plausible that he could have had a pre-paid return ticket for Monday morning. P.S. he's from a rich family, so the price of a plane ticket is pocket change.

Now this may surprise many here but lets's say what you say is true. It does make good logical sense he may have wanted to be home for the weekend, and it was a weekend. Many people have put forth a good argument to say he was their. So for the sake of an argument lets' say he was there on the night in question, which was a Sunday Night on September 14th and Monday morning September 15th. .

That would mean he would have had to have lied about being at his Dorm. That would mean the CCTV Footage of him being their would be false also. Could you pay 2 low paid security guards to change that? I think so. Do they have the knowledge to change the time and date? I doubt it. Or at least the ones I ever met. But I suppose somebody could. I don't really know myself as I never tried.

But again, for the sake of an argument, lets say they did that. But then that grainy CCTV Footage of him on the streets on the Island, which to me could be any young boy or young girl even, could also be tampered with to. But to go with the crowd, that's say it wasn't and it was him on the island late on September 14th and early the 15th. But does that prove he is guilty or rape and murder?

Did he have a reason to leave the island early, other than what people suspect here? Well, he did have an exam to write that Monday Morning in Bangkok, which has been proven, and as many pointed out he had to catch an early flight to do that. So other then running away from something, he may have also been just rushing to get somewhere. If he had a prepaid ticket, then planning this murder would have been impossible ahead of time, so only possible on the night of the murders.

But here is the kicker! He had his DNA Tested in front of a crowd of people, including police, his lawyer, and media. His DNA Tested Negative and did not match with Hannah's DNA. If this was a forgone conclusion, then why go through all this trouble and lie to say he was not on the island. Why not say he was on the island, if he really was, but left early as he had an exam to write, that he did not commit the murders and knew nothing about them, and that his DNA Test proves that.

But then maybe he told his Girlfriend that he was going to stay home that weekend and study, but instead took off to the island and rang up and old Girlfriend. Then wanted to hide that from his new Girlfriend. Who knows? But if he did lie, that makes him a liar, not a rapist and killer. If his DNA was tampered with, you would need proof of that, and since he is not a suspect anymore, the chances of getting that is next to impossible.

It does surprise me though that I have seen so many posts here in how these 2 accused tiny but physically fit men could not take on a big man like David even with a garden hoe. But now, and on the other hand, you have this tiny Nomsad guy, who looks like a young boy, with a gimpy arm to boot and who probably couldn't even hold a garden hoe to attack with, and that Hannah could have probably taken him on by herself and with her purse. But all of a sudden, you now have this small tiny man, with the gimpy arm, becoming Mighty Mouse.

Go Figure?

.

This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese. You should join the RTP you have all the child like qualities they look for. Apply at your nearest circus.

I am of the impression you rather unstable

He looks so innocent doesn't he the poor gimp. You or him ?

I almost forgot to add he is the same age as the Burmese maybe a year older.

[boomerangutang]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

Jdinasia thinks that's funny, and I'm sure Crab is trying to be witty, but upon reflection, that could be true.

Nomsod is a young man at college in Bkk. His family and home village are a few hours away. It's a weekend, he wants to see his family and his buddies. Completely natural for a college student to split for the weekend.

He knew he needed to be back at school by Monday morning. So it's quite plausible that he could have had a pre-paid return ticket for Monday morning. P.S. he's from a rich family, so the price of a plane ticket is pocket change.

Now this may surprise many here but lets's say what you say is true. It does make good logical sense he may have wanted to be home for the weekend, and it was a weekend. Many people have put forth a good argument to say he was their. So for the sake of an argument lets' say he was there on the night in question, which was a Sunday Night on September 14th and Monday morning September 15th. .

That would mean he would have had to have lied about being at his Dorm. That would mean the CCTV Footage of him being their would be false also. Could you pay 2 low paid security guards to change that? I think so. Do they have the knowledge to change the time and date? I doubt it. Or at least the ones I ever met. But I suppose somebody could. I don't really know myself as I never tried.

But again, for the sake of an argument, lets say they did that. But then that grainy CCTV Footage of him on the streets on the Island, which to me could be any young boy or young girl even, could also be tampered with to. But to go with the crowd, that's say it wasn't and it was him on the island late on September 14th and early the 15th. But does that prove he is guilty or rape and murder?

Did he have a reason to leave the island early, other than what people suspect here? Well, he did have an exam to write that Monday Morning in Bangkok, which has been proven, and as many pointed out he had to catch an early flight to do that. So other then running away from something, he may have also been just rushing to get somewhere. If he had a prepaid ticket, then planning this murder would have been impossible ahead of time, so only possible on the night of the murders.

But here is the kicker! He had his DNA Tested in front of a crowd of people, including police, his lawyer, and media. His DNA Tested Negative and did not match with Hannah's DNA. If this was a forgone conclusion, then why go through all this trouble and lie to say he was not on the island. Why not say he was on the island, if he really was, but left early as he had an exam to write, that he did not commit the murders and knew nothing about them, and that his DNA Test proves that.

Sorry GB, as usual your missive is as soggy as wet toilet paper. I'll just comment on some of them, for brevity: (geez, this gets tiresome).

>>> whether or not the CCTV of NS leaving the building at 9:30 is moot. There was 4.5 hours between the crime and that video. plenty of time for a desperate person with money to get from A to B. we still haven't seen any video of when he entered the same building prior to leaving. That could be interesting.

>>> the press event where he got his DNA tested, after trying to evade testing for a week: It was 100% staged. Typing of his DNA is not in doubt. WHAT'S IN DOUBT IS WHAT IT WAS COMPARED TO. There have been many indications (including RTP's claim that the B2 match) that the RTP is screwing with what's claimed to be DNA taken from the victim. The recent shenanigans at the trial are further proof the RTP cannot be trusted with that data.

>>> Many people believe it's NS shown in Running Man videos, Including all the initial police investigators. Why did they all go mum when their boss was yanked off the job? Connect the dots GB, unless you're determined to keep trying to shield the Headman's people. You're on a sinking boat with the rudder hanging on by a thread. Come on over to reason.

[evadgib]

Boomerangutang @1293 said:

If anyone speaks with the coroner, tell her to do her job, and remind her who she works for: British Subjects, the folks who pay her salary. I doubt they pay her to sit on her hands and whistle 'God Save The Queen'.

Coroners parameters explained::

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Smith_(nurse)

Key Phrase:

"The death of Helen Smith and her father's subsequent campaign led to a change in the rules regarding inquests into violent or unnatural deaths abroad.^[2] The West Yorkshire Coroner, Philip Gill had declined to hold an inquest, concluding that the case was outside his jurisdiction. However, although his decision was upheld by the High Court, in July 1982 the Court of Appeal ordered the inquest to go ahead. The ruling imposed a duty on coroners to investigate deaths abroad where the body was returned to England and Wales.^[6] The hearing was billed as the inquest of the century, but failed to give Ron Smith the closure he had wanted. The jury returned an open verdict.^[6] The 1982 ruling had an impact on thousands of cases and was later cited as a reason for the decision to hold an inquest into the death of Diana, Princess of Wales".^[6]

[Lozza]

Getting back to the hoe, are we meant to believe whilst this rape and murder was happening the B2 knew there was hoe at Mon's guesthouse vegie garden and managed to fetch and return it in the dark....please..

[GOLDBUGGY]

Berybert,

I see you still can't make a post to me without calling me a name. Then you say I am child like. (Ha!Ha!Ha!) Yeah! Right!

Okay! Since you said this, "This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese"., I honestly didn't know that as I couldn't tell from those Grainy CCTV Images.

So how tall is Nomsad and how much does he weigh?

[berybert]

Berybert,

I see you still can't make a post to me without calling me a name. Then you say I am child like. (Ha!Ha!Ha!) Yeah! Right!

Okay! Since you said this, "This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese"., I honestly didn't know that as I couldn't tell from those Grainy CCTV Images.

So how tall is Nomsad and how much does he weigh?

You have been following this case since day 1 so you say. If this is the case then you should know how tall Nomsod is as it has been mentioned several times.

Thank you for admitting the man in the grainy CCTV images is indeed Nomsod, again you would be perfect for the RTP.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Boomerangutang

But My Man, you will never be able to prove that, which makes it "Conjectural" and in which is not considered evidence in a court of law. No matter how good your Theory sounds, it is only a Theory which has not been proved. Sort of like the worm hole in space. Looks Good! Sounds Good! But still only a Theory.

I have no mission. All I have is my honest opinion, which last I heard I am allowed to have, as well as express openly. Just like everyone else here has one. In all fairness you have been quite good about that.

[Ajahnski]

I may have missed it in the past but the bite marks were news to me. I never had experience with bite marks so maybe some others with more forensic/law enforcement experience in that area can tell us if they can be matched with suspects teeth. I know a knife can be matched to wounds, I would think the same would be possible with bite marks. Then again as this case has been completely botched from the git-go, probably not in Thailand. If there is any DNA to retest it should NOT be done in Thailand. That will never happen and certainly the real killers DNA will never be retested. One of the major problems I see is the police say they found DNA to match the Burmese, that is easy to say and to arraign. Even in America, the judge and jury there will take the word of a lying cop over the truth. It happens all the time, I was a law enforcement officer and I know.

I'm a law school grad, and am considering doing criminal law. I've read up on bite mark forensics a little bit. Recently, they sent a test to a bunch of bite mark experts ahead of a conference. It was thought that this test would show consistency between analysts in order to assuage accusations that bite mark evidence is junk science. They were so confident that they had set up a follow up session at the conference before they even sent the tests out. Unfortunately, the test results showed that their is little agreement between EXPERTS in the field.

Forensics is a poorly regulated field. There is often little or no experimental evidence to support the procedures, and trial experts have a perverse incentive to inflate their findings in order to keep getting business from law enforcement. Recently, the FBI admitted that their hair analysis was flawed. Thousands have been sent to prison for decades based on this flawed evidence. If a nation as technologically advanced and with free press protections to root out junk science and bad players as the US can get it that wrong, what chance is there that they will get it right here?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Berybert,

I see you still can't make a post to me without calling me a name. Then you say I am child like. (Ha!Ha!Ha!) Yeah! Right!

Okay! Since you said this, "This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese"., I honestly didn't know that as I couldn't tell from those Grainy CCTV Images.

So how tall is Nomsad and how much does he weigh?

You have been following this case since day 1 so you say. If this is the case then you should know how tall Nomsod is as it has been mentioned several times.

Thank you for admitting the man in the grainy CCTV images is indeed Nomsod, again you would be perfect for the RTP.

Well Son, I am too old to join any Police Force, so again you are wrong. Just more Blah!Blah!Blah! Like when you just said you knew Nomsad was a lot bigger then the 2 accused, but have no idea how tall he is or his weight.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Goldbuggy

With regards to Nomsod , if as in one of your possible scenario he lied about his presence on the island , the reason for this deceit can only be answered by himself

The uni/dorm cctv image does not provide an alibi, there is a cctv image taken on Friday evening , and the next image is 09:15 monday morning, There is a huge gap in the time frame unaccounted for, now they may well be an innocent explanation but none as been forthcoming

I dont think anybody is putting forward that the murders was committed by one person ,

I agree with you. That only Nomsad can answer that if he lied. I just questioned why he would, if his DNA Test was already predetermined suggested by other here.

But he is not on trial here, or to my knowledge not even a witness. So I guess we will never find out. We will never know for sure.

[falangjim]

I may have missed it in the past but the bite marks were news to me. I never had experience with bite marks so maybe some others with more forensic/law enforcement experience in that area can tell us if they can be matched with suspects teeth. I know a knife can be matched to wounds, I would think the same would be possible with bite marks. Then again as this case has been completely botched from the git-go, probably not in Thailand. If there is any DNA to retest it should NOT be done in Thailand. That will never happen and certainly the real killers DNA will never be retested. One of the major problems I see is the police say they found DNA to match the Burmese, that is easy to say and to arraign. Even in America, the judge and jury there will take the word of a lying cop over the truth. It happens all the time, I was a law enforcement officer and I know.

I'm a law school grad, and am considering doing criminal law. I've read up on bite mark forensics a little bit. Recently, they sent a test to a bunch of bite mark experts ahead of a conference. It was thought that this test would show consistency between analysts in order to assuage accusations that bite mark evidence is junk science. They were so confident that they had set up a follow up session at the conference before they even sent the tests out. Unfortunately, the test results showed that their is little agreement between EXPERTS in the field.

Forensics is a poorly regulated field. There is often little or no experimental evidence to support the procedures, and trial experts have a perverse incentive to inflate their findings in order to keep getting business from law enforcement. Recently, the FBI admitted that their hair analysis was flawed. Thousands have been sent to prison for decades based on this flawed evidence. If a nation as technologically advanced and with free press protections to root out junk science and bad players as the US can get it that wrong, what chance is there that they will get it right here?

You've hit the nail on the head with your last question. I've often wondered how much of Thai stupidity is borne out of idiocy or just blatant lies. I mean, let's take this pig vomit of a cop, Somyat. I'd be willing to bet most of what comes out of his gob are lies. He's brassed up enough with stars on his sleeves to get away with a lot. That circus production with "fresh milk" and Papa "fresh milk" was priceless. Wait, I'm sure there was a price, but you get what I mean. But for... let's say the initial personnel at the crime scene. Those are your real idiots. You know, the ones with a penchant for taking self-ies with dead people. Did anyone else gasp when they read that the first responder to the murders was like what…23 years old? I have underwear older than him. But unlike him, my underwear hasn't lost its integrity. It still holds my balls in place.

And speaking of balls, sky news has the biggest. Have they come to save the day or what? Finally, a person with a proper accent to put forth all of this rubbish for us to view and digest. Thank you, Sky news. You are amazing.

As for the actual case. Nothing has convinced me these two Burmese kids have done anything wrong other than just being poor. Thailand's judicial system …well, I probably can't say that here. That's all for now. Good luck, B2.