Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[stephenterry]

What I find amusing, although that's the wrong word, is that the prosecution cannot finger the b2 without involving the headman and his family. Cctv no.

[minikev]

Thai police officer describes scene at site of British backpacker killings

"

what I want to know, it's who called the first police officer, FINALLY... and what time ..

is it the beach cleaner, Mon or somebody else , finally ???? and what was he doing near the scene so early in the morning ?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

in the case of a beach cleaner, is it possible to clean a beach before the sun rise ? is it not too dark for start his job ?

A beach cleaner could easily be someone collecting plastic bottles and beer cans to weigh in. Many in my area and they do start early. Often just an additional thing they do to their normal job.

[minikev]

I can only assume that they will be given the chance to cross examine the witnesses tomorrow?

You should know by now not to assume anything.

[stephenterry]

I can only assume that they will be given the chance to cross examine the witnesses tomorrow?

You should know by now not to assume anything.

exactly. This is not a fair trial. Or even close to one. Pond life in action .

[phuketandsee]

dna is the key..............forget about all this bla bla thing

Forget about the DNA:

1. No proper, believable collection or testing

2. No chain of custody

3. Now possibly "lost" or "used up" - conflicting reports from RTP on this

4. This is the RTP we're talking about.

5. Even despite the above it only goes to rape not murder which is the charge against the B2

All the discussion on TV over the months on DNA is a waste of time. UNLESS the Brits have their own DNA evidence showing it's not the B2

Boy would I die a happy man if that is the case!

if no prouved...these people will have to be released by the judge.

Who says? It's up to the judges (3), and only the judges, what is "proved" and what is not. TIT

[phuketandsee]

I can only assume that they will be given the chance to cross examine the witnesses tomorrow?

You should know by now not to assume anything.

exactly. This is not a fair trial. Or even close to one. Pond life in action .

No question they are filibustering to leave no time for the defense. They break the trial up into short blocks to make it more difficult and expensive for the defense then they take a long break in the hope the World will move on.

Despicable

[Rykbanlor]

You should know by now not to assume anything.

exactly. This is not a fair trial. Or even close to one. Pond life in action .

No question they are filibustering to leave no time for the defense. They break the trial up into short blocks to make it more difficult and expensive for the defense then they take a long break in the hope the World will move on.

Despicable

I'm all out of 'likes' today - but yeah, that seems to be the game they're playing.

[MikeENZ]

@stephenterry - not a troll (despite my unfortunate profile pic which I just noticed), just someone who needs some sleep. I live in California now - wife is doing her masters at UCSD. It's 6:58am over here. I would not be writing any of this sort of stuff if I was still based in Thailand.

I was there in 2013 and returned for a short holiday in Jan 2014. Which of course was 9 months before this all happened (I was living in the states when it happened). My post is merely to provide some context to the life around the island. That said 99% of the time, it's pretty chilled out there and I enjoyed my time there, but I wasn't wearing rose coloured glasses.

With regards to the whole "Fire Dancer" thing, please don't read more into that than needed, It's merely a scenario, just like the hundreds of tin foil hat scenarios that have been posted all over the net. But, it's a more likely scenario than half of them. Please don't misinterpret this as I have some form of evidence suggesting it. I don't. I'm merely speaking from experience having lived there, and dealt with some of the characters on the island.

My point is more along the lines of, out of all the locals who tended to be pretty loose - those were the guys, bar owners had assets to protect, businesses, reputation and Face. The fire dancers were transient, with a good command of english, proper six pack beach bods, and liked to try and score foreign chicks. Some of them were definitely on drugs some of the time, and they definitely had weapons. BUT it's merely speculation. As for why blame the burmese rather than look at those avenues - two reasons:

1) Racism, local Thais are insanely racist when it comes to Burmese, and they are disposable.

2) Face/Politics - those in the govt said Thais couldn't have done this, it was just after the coup so was easier to blame a farang (i.e Shaun) - then that dind't work out so the easiest scapegoat is a Burmese worker. No papers, minimal lanugage skills, no rights. Easy.

[minikev]

Does anyone know how far the small garden (where the hoe was kept) is from the log where they were sat singing songs?

Is it in shot? If so the prosecution will have footage of whoever grabbed the hoe.

I'm not sure but I think the log and the small garden are close together.

[stephenterry]

@stephenterry - not a troll (despite my unfortunate profile pic which I just noticed), just someone who needs some sleep. I live in California now - wife is doing her masters at UCSD. It's 6:58am over here. I would not be writing any of this sort of stuff if I was still based in Thailand.

I was there in 2013 and returned for a short holiday in Jan 2014. Which of course was 9 months before this all happened (I was living in the states when it happened). My post is merely to provide some context to the life around the island. That said 99% of the time, it's pretty chilled out there and I enjoyed my time there, but I wasn't wearing rose coloured glasses.

With regards to the whole "Fire Dancer" thing, please don't read more into that than needed, It's merely a scenario, just like the hundreds of tin foil hat scenarios that have been posted all over the net. But, it's a more likely scenario than half of them. Please don't misinterpret this as I have some form of evidence suggesting it. I don't. I'm merely speaking from experience having lived there, and dealt with some of the characters on the island.

My point is more along the lines of, out of all the locals who tended to be pretty loose - those were the guys, bar owners had assets to protect, businesses, reputation and Face. The fire dancers were transient, with a good command of english, proper six pack beach bods, and liked to try and score foreign chicks. Some of them were definitely on drugs some of the time, and they definitely had weapons. BUT it's merely speculation. As for why blame the burmese rather than look at those avenues - two reasons:

1) Racism, local Thais are insanely racist when it comes to Burmese, and they are disposable.

2) Face/Politics - those in the govt said Thais couldn't have done this, it was just after the coup so was easier to blame a farang (i.e Shaun) - then that dind't work out so the easiest scapegoat is a Burmese worker. No papers, minimal lanugage skills, no rights. Easy.

okay accepted. Apologies accusing you, but I still don't buy the fire dancer scenario . Why would the headman want to protect them?

[phuketandsee]

@stephenterry - not a troll (despite my unfortunate profile pic which I just noticed), just someone who needs some sleep. I live in California now - wife is doing her masters at UCSD. It's 6:58am over here. I would not be writing any of this sort of stuff if I was still based in Thailand.

I was there in 2013 and returned for a short holiday in Jan 2014. Which of course was 9 months before this all happened (I was living in the states when it happened). My post is merely to provide some context to the life around the island. That said 99% of the time, it's pretty chilled out there and I enjoyed my time there, but I wasn't wearing rose coloured glasses.

With regards to the whole "Fire Dancer" thing, please don't read more into that than needed, It's merely a scenario, just like the hundreds of tin foil hat scenarios that have been posted all over the net. But, it's a more likely scenario than half of them. Please don't misinterpret this as I have some form of evidence suggesting it. I don't. I'm merely speaking from experience having lived there, and dealt with some of the characters on the island.

My point is more along the lines of, out of all the locals who tended to be pretty loose - those were the guys, bar owners had assets to protect, businesses, reputation and Face. The fire dancers were transient, with a good command of english, proper six pack beach bods, and liked to try and score foreign chicks. Some of them were definitely on drugs some of the time, and they definitely had weapons. BUT it's merely speculation. As for why blame the burmese rather than look at those avenues - two reasons:

1) Racism, local Thais are insanely racist when it comes to Burmese, and they are disposable.

2) Face/Politics - those in the govt said Thais couldn't have done this, it was just after the coup so was easier to blame a farang (i.e Shaun) - then that dind't work out so the easiest scapegoat is a Burmese worker. No papers, minimal lanugage skills, no rights. Easy.

okay accepted. Apologies accusing you, but I still don't buy the fire dancer scenario . Why would the headman want to protect them?

And have his name and his family and the island dragged through the mud? Makes no sense for some equally disposable transients.

[StealthEnergiser]

Koh Tao Trial Resumes, Court Shown Footage of Victims’ Final NightSURAT THANI — Police presented a detailed timeline of the events leading up to the deaths of two British tourists on Koh Tao during the second session of the controversial murder trial today.

Two 22-year-old Burmese men have been accused of murdering David Miller, 24, and raping and killing Hannah Witheridge, 23, on a beach on the southern island in September 2014. The suspects, Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, are facing the death penalty in a trial taking place over 18 staggered days in a court on the neighboring island of Samui. The first session concluded on 10 July.

Today’s court hearing, which lasted for nearly 12 hours, saw only one witness: an investigative police officer chosen by the prosecution to present dozens of video clips culled from the footage of 300 CCTV cameras installed in the vicinity of the crime. The officer, Pol.Col. Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, said that only 100 of those cameras were operational, and 22 of them showed the movements of Witheridge and Miller on their final night.

Pol.Col. Cherdpong showed the court dozens of clips from the footage, which he said allowed police to construct the following timeline of events:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

[stephenterry]

@stephenterry - not a troll (despite my unfortunate profile pic which I just noticed), just someone who needs some sleep. I live in California now - wife is doing her masters at UCSD. It's 6:58am over here. I would not be writing any of this sort of stuff if I was still based in Thailand.

I was there in 2013 and returned for a short holiday in Jan 2014. Which of course was 9 months before this all happened (I was living in the states when it happened). My post is merely to provide some context to the life around the island. That said 99% of the time, it's pretty chilled out there and I enjoyed my time there, but I wasn't wearing rose coloured glasses.

With regards to the whole "Fire Dancer" thing, please don't read more into that than needed, It's merely a scenario, just like the hundreds of tin foil hat scenarios that have been posted all over the net. But, it's a more likely scenario than half of them. Please don't misinterpret this as I have some form of evidence suggesting it. I don't. I'm merely speaking from experience having lived there, and dealt with some of the characters on the island.

My point is more along the lines of, out of all the locals who tended to be pretty loose - those were the guys, bar owners had assets to protect, businesses, reputation and Face. The fire dancers were transient, with a good command of english, proper six pack beach bods, and liked to try and score foreign chicks. Some of them were definitely on drugs some of the time, and they definitely had weapons. BUT it's merely speculation. As for why blame the burmese rather than look at those avenues - two reasons:

1) Racism, local Thais are insanely racist when it comes to Burmese, and they are disposable.

2) Face/Politics - those in the govt said Thais couldn't have done this, it was just after the coup so was easier to blame a farang (i.e Shaun) - then that dind't work out so the easiest scapegoat is a Burmese worker. No papers, minimal lanugage skills, no rights. Easy.

okay accepted. Apologies accusing you, but I still don't buy the fire dancer scenario . Why would the headman want to protect them?

And have his name and his family and the island dragged through the mud? Makes no sense for some equally disposable transients.

exactly. Mike I think that Nomsod was involved. He might have witnessed the fire dancer committing the crime. His subsequent behaviour was suspicious.

[boomerangutang]

MikeENZ appears to discount the Headman's family and their buddies doing this, because of some nebulous reasons that they have vested interests and such (sorry, I can't recall his exact words from his first post, and hour or so ago). Yet, this was a crime of extreme passion. When a young man gets so riled up with hormones and drugs (including alcohol) and perhaps jilted advances, and put-downs (Hannah probably yelling/screaming to 'stop!' when seeing David overpowered), and punks probably showing off for friends. ....then all thoughts of reason evaporate. If it was Nomsod and/or Mon, the last thing they were thinking in the heat of the moment was maintaining reputation and status as one of the 5 mafia families.

Immediately after the crime, I picture Mon going to extreme fix-it mode - whether he was an active participant, or whether he was notified immediately after the crime. Red flags were going up in his head (particularly when he saw the damage to Hannah's head), and his primary concern was how to shield his nephew from repercussions. The rest is what we've been hearing and seeing during the past 10 months.

the first team of cops were looking for NS early on, and claiming he was Running Man and that he was #1 suspect. All that changed in a matter of days during the transition to the 2nd police team. Since then, the only evidence being sought, was anything implicating the scapegoats.

Edited July 22, 2015 by boomerangutang

[MikeENZ]

I'd suggest it had a lot to do with dear leader's "No Thai could do this" utterances, nationalism, racism and loss of face. Do not underestimate how strong the dislike is for the Burmese migrants in Thailand (think American's in Arizona talking about mexican migrants), heck Thais are still wound up about the sacking of Ayuthaya in the 1600s. The headman may not have had a clue what had happened within the first 24 hours, and was just trying to make the whole problem go away. Same goes with the local plod who have far more important things to do than investigate crimes, such as extort migrant workers to buy some booze and visit the local brothel.

Creating a perfect storm for the cluster**** that this all became. Remember the timing of all this, it's just after a coup, people are being locked up for criticising the junta etc, tourism was down, and I've seen locals do and say some insanely dumb stuff when it's in low season and the paranoia sets in.

Perp is on first boat off the rock, not finding the person is unacceptable politically - so they are stuck with having to pin it on someone, anyone. It doesn't matter who - as long as it's someone and they aren't Thai. B1/B2 are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lets face it, if the victims weren't Brits, there would have been no investigation - at the most it would have been an exchange of money and reparation to the family or some island justice.

[HUH]

So there we have it, the verdict is a formality Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format “so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.”

The trial is just a sick show

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

Edited July 22, 2015 by HUH

[stephenterry]

So there we have it, the verdict is a formality Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format “so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.”

The trial is just a sick show

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

was it ever going to be anything other?

[boomerangutang]

So there we have it, the verdict is a formality Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format “so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.”

The trial is just a sick show

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

It sounds as though the judge was saying they're (likely to or) going to find the defendants guilty - but (perhaps?) suspect it will likely be overturned when it goes through the appeal process. I'm treading on thin ice here, by presuming to give advice to a justice administrator, but the trial has just begun. The defense have not had any real opportunity to voice their concerns or question witnesses or challenge evidence. Hopefully, the judges don't feel obliged (by higher ups?) to deliver a guilty verdict, and instead will try to be as objective as reasonably possible - given the heated circumstances.

Of course the pawns in all this are the two Burmese boys. And yes, they are boys, and are having a big chunk of their youth ripped off. Though it can never buy their lost months/years back, they should be fairly compensated when let out of prison. I suggest Bt.40,000/month each for each month incarcerated. ......not much to pay for false imprisonment, is it? Perhaps Police General Somyot can pay it out of his personal fortune of 350 million baht. .....just pocket change for him - the person more than anyone else (except the perps and the Headman) who should know what's really going on in this sham trial.

Edited July 22, 2015 by boomerangutang

[fish fingers]

I wish some of the 'casebook' Jack The Ripper forum members could look at this case. They are brilliant

Edited July 22, 2015 by fish fingers

[minikev]

So there we have it, the verdict is a formality Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format “so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.”

The trial is just a sick show

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

I disagree without the media following it would have been slam dunk.

Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format “so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.”

Result!!

They think David and Hannah left through a back door but don't have cctv of that.

Bring on the defence.

[evadgib]

Two British tourists killed on a Thai island appeared on more than a dozen security cameras in their final hours, a court in Thailand has been told.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo deny murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Norfolk, and David Miller, 24, from Jersey.

Their bodies were found on a beach on the island of Koh Tao last September.

The men became suspects after they were spotted on CCTV that night on the same beach where the murders took place, AFP news agency reported.

The trial began earlier this month and, when it resumed on Wednesday, police told the court CCTV footage showed Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller visiting two bars on the island with friends, hours before they died.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33619689

Edited July 22, 2015 by evadgib

[MikeENZ]

If anyone needs a reminder of how Burmese are viewed in the Gulf: https://embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/global-development/video/2015/jul/20/thailand-fishing-industry-rohingya-trafficking-slavery-rape-video

[minikev]

So there we have it, the verdict is a formality Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format “so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.”

The trial is just a sick show

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

It sounds as though the judge was saying they're (likely to or) going to find the defendants guilty - but (perhaps?) suspect it will likely be overturned when it goes through the appeal process. I'm treading on thin ice here, by presuming to give advice to a justice administrator, but the trial has just begun. The defense have not had any real opportunity to voice their concerns or question witnesses or challenge evidence. Hopefully, the judges don't feel obliged (by higher ups?) to deliver a guilty verdict, and instead will try to be as objective as reasonably possible - given the heated circumstances.

Of course the pawns in all this are the two Burmese boys. And yes, they are boys, and are having a big chunk of their youth ripped off. Though it can never buy their lost months/years back, they should be fairly compensated when let out of prison. I suggest Bt.40,000/month each for each month incarcerated. ......not much to pay for false imprisonment, is it? Perhaps Police General Somyot can pay it out of his personal fortune of 350 million baht. .....just pocket change for him - the person more than anyone else (except the perps and the Headman) who should know what's really going on in this sham trial.

I don't believe thats what it suggests. I think it suggests the lead judge is simply preparing for any outcome. Actually I think it shows they are in a fair trial. I hope so anyway.

[boomerangutang]

Two quotes from today's article in KhaoSodEnglish.com (thanks HUH for showing us that link)

"According to Pol.Col. Cherdpong, Witheridge was not confronted, harassed, interrupted, or trailed by any suspicious individuals while she and the others walked to AC Bar. “I studied hundreds of hours of footage to make sure of that, Your Honor,” he said today, citing this as evidence that the murder was not premeditated."

Boomer's comment: 'hundreds of hours of footage ?!' Wow, can the defense see that footage also?

"Pol.Col. Cherdpong also showed the court footage of a small “Asian man” who was seen running back and forth several times between 3 and 5 am on the night of the crime. According to the officer, the man was traveling between the crime scene on the southern part of the beach and a Burmese community nearby."

Boomer's comment: Yes, we see he slipped in the adjective 'small'. The policeman wanted to add the word 'small' to try and get the court to picture 'Running Man' as fitting the small stature of one of the defendants. No matter that the man shown in the CCTV is tall for an Asian - and (surprise) fits the look and gait and mannerisms of Nomsod - to a T. No chance of a reenactment of that, I'm sure. Even if there was a recreation of Running Man video (same scene, individual 'people of interest'), it wouldn't mean anything if the RTP orchestrated it. They're too small-minded to do a fair job of anything related to reenactments.

'traveling between the crime scene ...and a Burmese community nearby.'

Boomer: Gimme a f'in' break. It's a tiny island. Everything is nearby. The RTP is telling their story as if they're addressing 4 year olds - unabashedly trying to lead to a false conclusion. Will the judges lap it up? It's a moot point, if this is all a show with a foregone conclusion.

Edited July 22, 2015 by boomerangutang

[HUH]

Apologies in advance if this breaks any rules. However.... Read this gent's.

Can u translate? I can read double dutch better than Thai

[fab99]

So there we have it, the verdict is a formality Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format “so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.”

The trial is just a sick show

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

If the transcript is accurate and not an approximate translation, it is truly sickening to see this kind of remark.

Talking about the appeal so soon (meaning a guilty verdict in this trial) is really unsettling, the defense hasn't presented anything yet and wasn't given any time for cross examination today...

Where is the undisputable evidence the B2 did it in what was presented in the first few days that makes the verdict clear ?

It is depressing...

[fab99]

I hope the defense will have some time tomorrow to ask a few questions about the CCTV, how come there is absolutely no footage from inside the bars and from the beach side (there are cameras there... are they conveniently not functional ?).

At the beginning of the investigation the UK offered some help to analyze the CCTV, it wasn't accepted of course...

I also find it strange that they had to mention the smallness of the running man (who is actually not so small when you compare him to the door in the background) and the phone records from Nomsod in Bangkok (did they provide the documents, how come absolutely nothing is transparent?) to try to show the running man was burmese (didn't Mon say it was himself by the way ? wasnt it mentioned?).

[Darkknight666]

Apologies in advance if this breaks any rules. However.... Read this gent's.

Can u translate? I can read double dutch better than Thai

Pertinent section:

I can't be a witness, it's Nomsod in the video.

[Fat Haggis]

Apologies in advance if this breaks any rules. However.... Read this gent's.

It breaks the English only part of the forum.. it will no doubt be removed soon.

[Darkknight666]

Apologies in advance if this breaks any rules. However.... Read this gent's.

It breaks the English only part of the forum.. it will no doubt be removed soon.

I suppose I can just add the quotes without a photo.. At any rate... See and Ye shall find. There's plenty of info for those who seek it.