Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[docshock13]

Re: footage of boat leaving the island shortly after the murders

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Since RTP confirm they are in possession of the CCTV from the pier, can the defense now ask for the footage to presented to the court?

Not entirely sure about procedures (discovery) in a Thai court of law, but it would seem reasonable to allow the defense to ask the prosecution to present the footage to the courts. Though it may be argued that since the accused never left the island, the point of whoever was on the boat is a moot point as it is not relevant to the accused's defense. I.e. the person/people on the boat are not on trial.

[AleG]

The court was told officers had inspected it with a magnifying glass but deemed there were no viable fingerprints on it, and no DNA evidence to collect.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

H12.jpg

Get the <deleted>*k, I cant believe this is happening. I have to admit as soon as I read that I laughed out loud until I remembered the victims families and the B2. This is outrageous incompetence and neglect of duty. It really cant get worse can it? Yes it probably can and will.

Since I've seen a video were police are swabbing the hoe to collect DNA evidence the statement is wrong or, once again, a "miscommunication".

[BritTim]

The b2 were not wearing the same clothes as those caught on camera. Why would that not be relevant? Or am I missing something here.

It is not relevant because it suggests the Burmese kids are innocent. It is clear the "investigation" has a single objective: to have the Burmese kids found guilty in court. Any facts that would contradict this must, preferably, be hidden from the court. Those that cannot be hidden should be ignored.

[HUH]

Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.

By Sarah McBride in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI: Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Sky News 2015-07-23

Ok colonel Cherdpong , if this is true , that they actually have the footage , then for god sake check it now. So we at least can find out who the passengers on the boat were.

Very unlikely that a speedboat had left from the main pier, it is used by larger vessels; speedboats normally operate directly from the beach or from small piers at some resorts.

Irrelevant dont you think, the point is the cctv was not checked in a double murder case and to this day know body knows. We also know they were looking and checking local fishing boats but failed to check the pier cctv..............

[docshock13]

How do you check for DNA traces with a magnifying glass ? Didn't think the killer(s) would have taken the boat that left 1 hour after the murders and didn't think that the B2 wearing different clothes than the suspect shown on CCTV was relevant !!!!!!!!! Oh my Buddha !

The earlier references to the Keystone Cops and Laurel & Hardy no longer apply, this is a real murder trial and even the most silly script writer could not have thought of such an all mighty cock-up. The RTP losing face has just gone thermo-nuclear. How on earth are they ever ever going to live this down !

With bullying and intimidation, me thinks.

[StealthEnergiser]

Police say Miller was struck by a single blow. Are they for real? Probably most on here could provide evidence to disprove that claim. Beggars belief.

And having now had to see the graphic photos of his son Ian Miller will hopefully be disproving that claim too.

I don't think David or Hannah's families are at this trial now probably seen enough and maybe know that the b2 are not the killers.

What a total disgrace and only for social media these boys could have got death penalty.

As for the RTP defenders they should keep there unwanted replies out of this forum that have done enough damage already .

[NeverSure]

If this was my home country the case would have been tossed out by the judge already. Just like that.

I'm wondering if there's ever a time in Thailand where a judge sees that the prosecution can't prove its case "beyond a (any) reasonable doubt" and dismisses the case out of hand. If that happens the accused can't be charged or tried again. It's up to the prosecution to prove its case and never up to the defendant to prove his innocence.

This worries me about Thailand as much as anything. Is there any justice for foreigners which these boys are? We'll see.

[simonuk]

Jesus Christ- the best witnesses for the defence are actually the prosecution and their witnesses..total incompetence and child like lies. Paper thin and designed to fool uneducated farm folk.

[BritTim]

Re: footage of boat leaving the island shortly after the murders

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Since RTP confirm they are in possession of the CCTV from the pier, can the defense now ask for the footage to presented to the court?

Not entirely sure about procedures (discovery) in a Thai court of law, but it would seem reasonable to allow the defense to ask the prosecution to present the footage to the courts. Though it may be argued that since the accused never left the island, the point of whoever was on the boat is a moot point as it is not relevant to the accused's defense. I.e. the person/people on the boat are not on trial.

Any inconvenient CCTV footage that the defense ask for will be found to have been "used up". The police will explain that it was accidentally deleted but proved without a shadow of a doubt whatever the RTP want the court to believe.

[docshock13]

Police say Miller was struck by a single blow. Are they for real? Probably most on here could provide evidence to disprove that claim. Beggars belief.

And having now had to see the graphic photos of his son Ian Miller will hopefully be disproving that claim too.

I don't think David or Hannah's families are at this trial now probably seen enough and maybe know that the b2 are not the killers.

What a total disgrace and only for social media these boys could have got death penalty.

As for the RTP defenders they should keep there unwanted replies out of this forum that have done enough damage already .

Yep. I'm fresh out of troll food. They are going to have to get by on their Kool-Aid I guess.

[HUH]

The court was told officers had inspected it with a magnifying glass but deemed there were no viable fingerprints on it, and no DNA evidence to collect.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

H12.jpg

Get the <deleted>*k, I cant believe this is happening. I have to admit as soon as I read that I laughed out loud until I remembered the victims families and the B2. This is outrageous incompetence and neglect of duty. It really cant get worse can it? Yes it probably can and will.

Since I've seen a video were police are swabbing the hoe to collect DNA evidence the statement is wrong or, once again, a "miscommunication".

I've also seen that video so why the contradictions. You can put it to miscommunication but I'm afraid it stinks to me and with all the other contradictions its obvious this is a complete farce at the moment.

[Kannikapor88]

In a civilized country Gen. Somyot would have to look for a new job after this case ...

or maybe pack a back for a single cell ...

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Thailand murder trial: Police say more DNA tests possible

DNA evidence could still be re-tested in the case of two British tourists murdered in Thailand, a police forensic expert has told a court.

David Miller, 24, from Jersey, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Great Yarmouth, Norfolk were found dead at a beach on the island of Koh Tao last September.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, deny killing the pair.

Lawyers for the two men have asked the court to allow the DNA to be re-tested.

The lack of eyewitness accounts has meant DNA profiling has become the most important evidence in the trial.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33638493

-- BBC 2015-07-23

[AleG]

Very unlikely that a speedboat had left from the main pier, it is used by larger vessels; speedboats normally operate directly from the beach or from small piers at some resorts.

Irrelevant dont you think, the point is the cctv was not checked in a double murder case and to this day know body knows. We also know they were looking and checking local fishing boats but failed to check the pier cctv..............

No, I don't think it's irrelevant.

As I said the pier is normally used for larger vessels and it would be easy to check if any left during the relevant time.

Before things get even more twisted it should be pointed that this:

"The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said."

Is conflating two things, one the footage from the pier and two the allegations that a speedboat left the island from somewhere else one hour after the murder. They way it has been edited it makes it look as if there is footage of that boat leaving from the pier that the police refused to examine.

Having said that the defense should ask for the footage from the pier and examine it to their full satisfaction.

[BritTim]

MikeENZ, who apparently provided some insights about life on KT and KP for the TIME Magazine "The Sceptic Isle" story casts doubt on the possibility that the son of an influential figure on the sceptic island could have committed or been involved in the rape and murders because he would have had too much too lose.

Personally I have no idea who committed the crimes and don't wish to point the finger of suspicion at anyone in particular. However, I would like to point out that MikeENZ's theory is inconsistent with the observed behaviour of the sons of wealthy and influential figures in Thailand. Without naming names or citing dates, I list from memory some incidents I recall over the years in Thailand.

- The son of an influential politician was alleged to have shot a policeman in the head at point blank range in a disco over an argument about someone stepping on his toe. No conviction.

- The son of a gangster associated with gambling dens in Bangkok shot the nephew of a Thai diplomat in the face non-fatally in a disco in Bangkok after the victim allegedly stepped on his toe. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician became irate when a pick-up truck cut in front of him on a Bangkok street. The pick-up truck was pulled over by bodyguards travelling in another car and the driver was beaten. The politician's son walked towards him and fired a shot that missed. Then he pointed the gun right at his head and pulled the trigger but it failed to fire. No prosecution.

- The son of a influential politician was pulled over by a traffic cop on Pattanakarn Road in Bangkok for a minor violation and got irate when the cop refused to let him go without booking him. So he pulled out his gun and shot the cop in the face non-fatally. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of an influential politician abducted a police sergeant over an unknown dispute and incarcerated him for 2 or 3 days. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of a billionaire who sells cafeinated sugar water to gullible fools all over the world ran over a police sergeant and dragged him for 220 metres before tipping it on the road, ensuring death, if it had not already occurred. Then he attempted to get a family servant to claim responsibility for the crime in his place. He was charged but there has been no attempt to bring him to court and almost certainly the case will be allowed expire under Thailand's ridiculous statute of limitations.

- The son of an influential Isaan politician became irate when he was travelling in was overtaken by a pick-up truck on an isolated country road. He speeded up and overtook the pick-up so that he and at least one of his buddies could fire into the pick-up with their illegally carried handguns. The pick-up truck owner, a building contractor, was ready for them and returned fire with his own illegal handgun, killing the politician's son. LOL. The pick-up truck owner was prosecuted.

I could go on but I think this pattern illustrates something in the Thai psyche that MikeENZ obviously failed to learn during his brief stint in Thailand as an illegal worker in tourist resorts. Sons of wealthy and influential people are brought up with a sense of entitlement and impunity which makes them believe they can and have and do whatever they want and never have to face any consequences because Daddy will fix any problems that result. The above list indicates that they are often right. This makes their reflexes different from most less privileged people in Thailand or people living in rule of law jurisdictions, who are more likely to stop short at a point where they should be able to see a possibility of spending many years in prison. Since they don't feel they will have to face the consequences of their actions, they don't see any need to control their flashpoints and, in a country where face is so important, this can lead to some ugly situations.

Another point has been raised by other posters, i.e. why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai. In the case of the Katherine Horton murder in Samui, the authorities were happy to arrest and convict two Thai fishermen. No doubt Burmese fishermen would have been preferable but Thai fishermen are only a couple of rungs up the ladder and are also of no consequence.

why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai

I think this is an interesting question. The explanation would go like this:

• Events leading to the murders started with a fight in AC Bar. Indeed, some of David's wounds may well have been received there.
• When Hannah and David left, the killers (casual and formal employees of the bar) followed.

Even if the bar escaped formal prosecution as sharing responsibility, the negative publicity would be devastating.

Note: I am not saying this is the only explanation, only that it is one of the plausible scenarios.

If they were even conscious when they left

The police reported on September 20 that they had CCTV footage (never released to the public and, I bet, not shown in court) of a Western woman running down the street at the approximate time the murders occurred. Of course, this is not relevant, and was doubtless never followed up.

[AleG]

Get the <deleted>*k, I cant believe this is happening. I have to admit as soon as I read that I laughed out loud until I remembered the victims families and the B2. This is outrageous incompetence and neglect of duty. It really cant get worse can it? Yes it probably can and will.

Since I've seen a video were police are swabbing the hoe to collect DNA evidence the statement is wrong or, once again, a "miscommunication".

I've also seen that video so why the contradictions. You can put it to miscommunication but I'm afraid it stinks to me and with all the other contradictions its obvious this is a complete farce at the moment.

It's not the first time that this has happened, incomplete and inaccurate reports being published that later need to be amended. For example during the previous hearings it was reported that the man who originally found the garden hoe was "cajoled" into cleaning it, next thing we know:

"CORRECTION: The beach cleaner who removed the garden hoe from the crime scene did not tell the court he also washed the tool, as was originally reported."

[HUH]

Very unlikely that a speedboat had left from the main pier, it is used by larger vessels; speedboats normally operate directly from the beach or from small piers at some resorts.

Irrelevant dont you think, the point is the cctv was not checked in a double murder case and to this day know body knows. We also know they were looking and checking local fishing boats but failed to check the pier cctv..............

No, I don't think it's irrelevant.

As I said the pier is normally used for larger vessels and it would be easy to check if any left during the relevant time.

Before things get even more twisted it should be pointed that this:

"The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said."

Is conflating two things, one the footage from the pier and two the allegations that a speedboat left the island from somewhere else one hour after the murder. They way it has been edited it makes it look as if there is footage of that boat leaving from the pier that the police refused to examine.

Having said that the defense should ask for the footage from the pier and examine it to their full satisfaction.

How can you seriously defend the fact that the cctv was not looked at in a very high profile double murder when they had at the time no clue of who carried out the crimes. ALL cctv should have been checked

[simonuk]

Police say Miller was struck by a single blow. Are they for real? Probably most on here could provide evidence to disprove that claim. Beggars belief.

And having now had to see the graphic photos of his son Ian Miller will hopefully be disproving that claim too.

I don't think David or Hannah's families are at this trial now probably seen enough and maybe know that the b2 are not the killers.

What a total disgrace and only for social media these boys could have got death penalty.

As for the RTP defenders they should keep there unwanted replies out of this forum that have done enough damage already .

I suppose it depends who is translating for the parents and what their agenda is .

It would be very easy to omit or play down negative aspects of the prosecution case.

If it's a government translator then I would think they have no real idea what is being said.

[BritTim]

How do you check for DNA traces with a magnifying glass ? Didn't think the killer(s) would have taken the boat that left 1 hour after the murders and didn't think that the B2 wearing different clothes than the suspect shown on CCTV was relevant !!!!!!!!! Oh my Buddha !

The earlier references to the Keystone Cops and Laurel & Hardy no longer apply, this is a real murder trial and even the most silly script writer could not have thought of such an all mighty cock-up. The RTP losing face has just gone thermo-nuclear. How on earth are they ever ever going to live this down !

Meanwhile, there is almost no coverage of this in the Thai media. One would think there would be some interest in this "perfect investigation". Thai PBS where are you?

[simonuk]

Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.

By Sarah McBride in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI: Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Sky News 2015-07-23

Ok colonel Cherdpong , if this is true , that they actually have the footage , then for god sake check it now. So we at least can find out who the passengers on the boat were.

Very unlikely that a speedboat had left from the main pier, it is used by larger vessels; speedboats normally operate directly from the beach or from small piers at some resorts.

I imagine a speedboat could collect from wherever it's asked to collect from.

[nottocus]

All this stuff happening but at the end of the day, the B2 are going to be found guilty.

[HUH]

Since I've seen a video were police are swabbing the hoe to collect DNA evidence the statement is wrong or, once again, a "miscommunication".

I've also seen that video so why the contradictions. You can put it to miscommunication but I'm afraid it stinks to me and with all the other contradictions its obvious this is a complete farce at the moment.

It's not the first time that this has happened, incomplete and inaccurate reports being published that later need to be amended. For example during the previous hearings it was reported that the man who originally found the garden hoe was "cajoled" into cleaning it, next thing we know:

"CORRECTION: The beach cleaner who removed the garden hoe from the crime scene did not tell the court he also washed the tool, as was originally reported."

And how do you know which report is correct?

[bunglebag]

Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.

By Sarah McBride in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI: Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Sky News 2015-07-23

Ok colonel Cherdpong , if this is true , that they actually have the footage , then for god sake check it now. So we at least can find out who the passengers on the boat were.

Very unlikely that a speedboat had left from the main pier, it is used by larger vessels; speedboats normally operate directly from the beach or from small piers at some resorts.

It says leaving a beach.

Nothing about a pier mentioned here.

This is truly ridiculous. how can folk continue to defend the RTP?

One defender usually comes across as quite a smart fella to me. Maybe with an agenda, but smart nonetheless. I wonder if he's miffed at having to try and defend this blatant pile of the proverbial as it's a total credibility crusher for now and the future imo. Can't help feeling it might be better letting some of the other more suitable, error prone, defenders do it.

[stephenterry]

Police say Miller was struck by a single blow. Are they for real? Probably most on here could provide evidence to disprove that claim. Beggars belief.

And having now had to see the graphic photos of his son Ian Miller will hopefully be disproving that claim too.

I don't think David or Hannah's families are at this trial now probably seen enough and maybe know that the b2 are not the killers.

What a total disgrace and only for social media these boys could have got death penalty.

As for the RTP defenders they should keep there unwanted replies out of this forum that have done enough damage already .

I quite agree. This whole case is a sham. More importantly it discredits Thailand, which is a pity because there are so many good people here. The shills should be banned from this site.

[BritTim]

It's not the first time that this has happened, incomplete and inaccurate reports being published that later need to be amended. For example during the previous hearings it was reported that the man who originally found the garden hoe was "cajoled" into cleaning it, next thing we know:

"CORRECTION: The beach cleaner who removed the garden hoe from the crime scene did not tell the court he also washed the tool, as was originally reported."

So, was it cleaned later? Was it cleaned earlier? Why did it have no fingerprints or DNA evidence? Was there any blood on it? Were the forensic experts involved able to extract DNA from the blood if any was found? Was any of David's blood on the hoe?

[AleG]

It's not the first time that this has happened, incomplete and inaccurate reports being published that later need to be amended. For example during the previous hearings it was reported that the man who originally found the garden hoe was "cajoled" into cleaning it, next thing we know:

"CORRECTION: The beach cleaner who removed the garden hoe from the crime scene did not tell the court he also washed the tool, as was originally reported."

And how do you know which report is correct?

I would place more credibility on later corrections, since time and time again initial reports have proven to be inaccurate, either emanating from the police flubbing over some point or the press misunderstanding something.

Another clear example is the controversy surrounding the phone found behind the two suspect's lodgings. During a press conference a policeman said it belonged to Whiteridge, instead of Miller; that set Social Media on fire with claims that proved there was a cover up since there were pictures of Witheridge's phone being handed to the police. Next day the police issued a correction, they misspoke, it was Miller's phone, that didn't sway the Internet detectives, neither did when two witnesses testified that the two men on trial had given them that phone to dispose of, or when the two men on trial said that they found that phone on the night of the murders.

The "They planted Hannah's phone" meme still pops up now and then even if it's been thoroughly discredited by now.

So yes, I'd wait to have those comments about the hoe explained in more detail.

[BritTim]

Actually I think the translation must have been wrong.

They had the footage , not have,the footage or else I guess the court would demand to see it.

Here we see the reason why they attempted to prevent Thai translators from being available for the Western journalists. They wanted to be able to dismiss all these reports as mistranslations. The gasps in court were just gasps of admiration at the skill of the RTP, totally misunderstood by the Westerners present.

[changnaam]

Sorry just logged on, not had time to check back through the thread. Anyone seen the article today featured in the Daily newspaper from UK which is banned here?

Possibly the most informative and questioning article so far printed in the UK press. I think they might be ramping up for a big story. Lots of specifics mentioned which have only been suggested in past reports, with names even included.

[stephenterry]

All this stuff happening but at the end of the day, the B2 are going to be found guilty.

I welcome your positive comments on day 5 of the trial.

[BritTim]

It's not the first time that this has happened, incomplete and inaccurate reports being published that later need to be amended. For example during the previous hearings it was reported that the man who originally found the garden hoe was "cajoled" into cleaning it, next thing we know:

"CORRECTION: The beach cleaner who removed the garden hoe from the crime scene did not tell the court he also washed the tool, as was originally reported."

And how do you know which report is correct?

I would place more credibility on later corrections, since time and time again initial reports have proven to be inaccurate, either emanating from the police flubbing over some point or the press misunderstanding something.

Another clear example is the controversy surrounding the phone found behind the two suspect's lodgings. During a press conference a policeman said it belonged to Whiteridge, instead of Miller; that set Social Media on fire with claims that proved there was a cover up since there were pictures of Witheridge's phone being handed to the police. Next day the police issued a correction, they misspoke, it was Miller's phone, that didn't sway the Internet detectives, neither did when two witnesses testified that the two men on trial had given them that phone to dispose of, or when the two men on trial said that they found that phone on the night of the murders.

The "They planted Hannah's phone" meme still pops up now and then even if it's been thoroughly discredited by now.

So yes, I'd wait to have those comments about the hoe explained in more detail.

the two men on trial said that they found that phone on the night of the murders

Source please. Was this in their "confessions"?