Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[bunglebag]

Andy Hall also says there is CCTV of 3 Burmese on the beach with the guitar. What isn't said is that there's CCTV of when and in which direction they each left the beach. I maybe wrong and there's more CCTV to be shown of them on the beach, but If there's not I would find this very very suspicious!

Regarding CCTV of the running man, I understood Nom said it was him, when a lot of people thought it was the headman's son. I wonder why he would have said that?

Ah here it is. Andy Hall mentions the cctv of the Burmese playing guitar on the beach. Everyone should watch this.

Initially he says they saw cctv footage of them going down to the beach.

He also says the question needs to be raised as to why there is no cctv footage from inside the AC bar.

Then another reporter asks more about the footage of the accused and Andy Hall replies that there is footage of them on the beach playing guitar and smoking.

When asked more about Hannah and David he replies that there is no footage of them after they entered the bar at 1am and 2am respectively and goes on to say that doesn't mean that none exists but that the prosecution is not scheduled to present any further footage and he then says it's clear that what goes into the prosecution document is not necessarily all the evidence that they have, it's simply what the choose to present to the court.

I'm guessing one of the reporters may have been for the Mirror:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-cctv-showed-6120448

"The prosecution said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun emerged as potential suspects after they were spotted on CCTV that night playing guitar, smoking and chatting with friends on the same beach where the murders took place."

If this is the same spot that the cigarettes were found and one of those cigarettes had Hannah's DNA on it then surely she would have appeared on the cctv at some point?

I think we will find that the CCTV footage shown is of the Burmese kids on a different part of the beach. If not, the defense would have gone crazy asking for the rest of the footage from that camera.

Yes maybe.

As an aside, Maung Maung said they were on the log a while (couple of beers?) and he left at 1am. Presently the murders are estimated to have happened somewhat later as I understand it (is there an official window?). I'm surprised there were only 3 fag butts if they were on the log for a couple of hours or more.

Edited July 24, 2015 by bunglebag

[KhaoNiaw]

Whilst they are clearly competent English police forces are crooked in their own way. I am from a country where the police looked the other way whilst 1000s of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Somalian Muslims rape under-age white girls with full consent of the police,councils, social services and Members of Parliament.

Pretty much like some of the highest and mightiest (white people) of the same country who have abused children for decades and been given a free pass to do so.

[Dogmatix]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

The family has expressed confidence in the investigation

For pity's sake stop bashing out the same old mantra will you. That statement was made via the FO almost 8 months ago! Please give the families some credit and try and understand that they are unlikely to be stuck in the same groove as you are and have been since this case began. You are not a spokesperson for the families and it's high time you took your own advice.

Actually the families released another statement just a week or two ago with at least one stating they want this to play out in the court and how speculation has been hurtful to the family and the victim's friends and that they wanted people to respect their privacy

We respect the rights of the families but it is not only about them. It is also about the two defendants who also have rights and may have been fitted up. It is also about the justice system to which anyone living in Thailand without substantial wealth and connections can easily fall prey. If the police had conducted their investigations in a competent and transparent manner, there wouldn't have been any cause for speculation.

[IslandLover]

Todays local report (Norfolk) -

The prosecution says it was this CCTV footage that led them to the alleged murderers.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/court_in_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_watches_video_of_couple_s_last_evening_1_4164406

but here it states (3rd Oct) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779106/Thai-police-confirm-DNA-samples-taken-Koh-Tao-murder-victims-match-two-Burmese-workers-confessed-killing-British-pair.html

Identified only by the names ‘Win’ and ‘Saw’, the men were held after it was revealed that their DNA matched samples collected from the victims’ bodies.

So was it the CCTV or the DNA that led to the 'alleged murderers'?

Glad to see today's story is using the terms 'Alleged murderers' and 'Suspected murderers'. A step in the right direction.

still wearing the same tee shirt seen wearing in the shop buying cigs, not a spot of blood anywhere to be seen

One of the suspects is seen being led away in handcuffs by police officers

And the same cut-off jeans, although that is Maung Maung, the suspect that was let go.

[IslandLover]

Todays local report (Norfolk) -

The prosecution says it was this CCTV footage that led them to the alleged murderers.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/court_in_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_watches_video_of_couple_s_last_evening_1_4164406

but here it states (3rd Oct) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779106/Thai-police-confirm-DNA-samples-taken-Koh-Tao-murder-victims-match-two-Burmese-workers-confessed-killing-British-pair.html

Identified only by the names ‘Win’ and ‘Saw’, the men were held after it was revealed that their DNA matched samples collected from the victims’ bodies.

So was it the CCTV or the DNA that led to the 'alleged murderers'?

Glad to see today's story is using the terms 'Alleged murderers' and 'Suspected murderers'. A step in the right direction.

still wearing the same tee shirt seen wearing in the shop buying cigs, not a spot of blood anywhere to be seen

One of the suspects is seen being led away in handcuffs by police officers

And the same cut-off jeans, although that is Maung Maung, the suspect that was let go.

[boomerangutang]

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

We'll find that 'have' will actually be 'had'.

Thai language is not precise when using verb tenses. Plus, in order to maintain their despicable cover-up, RTP cannot allow the beach/pier footage, as well as hundreds of hours of other pertinent footage, to be seen by the defense or us little people.

[Nigeone]

If there was sperm inside this lady after she had been raped and murdered thats pretty conclusive evidence to link such a person to both crimes.

That's really not the case. DNA is "circumstantial evidence" meaning that the circumstances are that the person's DNA was there. It isn't for instance eyewitness testimony (which can be even less reliable).

Circumstantial evidence can prove nothing or can be damning. In this case I don't see how any western court would convict on only semen which doesn't prove where and when that happened. I think it takes something additive which I haven't heard of.

In Thailand it seems people can get convicted or let go based on who they are aren't without the rule of law.

Cheers

Blah blah blah ...

You can say what you want here, but if the police found your DNA in the body of my daughter raped and murdered it would be better for your security to stay in prison.

But continue to distract us with your hazy theories.

I totally agree with what your saying but what the poster is saying is based on the the fact that this looking more and more like a stitch up and basically based on the fact there up to now has been no evidence to even remotely connect the B2 with the case apart from the 'possible' DNA which is doubtful it's even credible the point is it doesn't prove murder. Or even rape. At the end of the day I'm sure everyone on here wants the perpetrators of this gruesome crime punished and rightly so but what also nobody wants is scapegoats . There is only possibly 3 or 4 people on here defending the prosecution case and as one or two of them at least seem intelligent but having a agenda , I would be surprised if even they believe the B2 did it. For whatever reason though! There sticking to there guns. None of us want the wrong people to go down for this crime. Most of us have a idea in what area the real culprits are from. That's all my friend. We all just want justice. I hope that makes sense. But as I said I do understand your sentiments and in any other jurisdiction this problem would not occur.

[bitterbatter]

Credit ASTV.. October 22, 2014 22 ตุลาคม 2557 (English Translation Below) from another facebook site

Mao Mao, one of the initial suspects turned main witness for the defense told Radio Free Asia that he is now free. However, two or three off-uniform officers still followed him everywhere. He didn't feel safe so the asked to temporary stay at Burmese Consulate in Bangkok. Three of the six were physically beaten and their bodies scalded with hot water as police attempted to obtain information about the three people who had fled. All six were then released. Police had beaten Mao Mao 3 times to confess but he refused. They also claim he was a man on CCTV. The other 2 Burmese suspects, Zaw and Win, tortured and forced to become scapegoats.

He should bring up charges against these police torture. Then see how the media reacts to that

[Rykbanlor]

Someone mentioned to me that, regarding a lot of the questions surrounding the reach and power of certain Families on KT, it is prudent to remember that Mon of the Tao has an off duty cop as a "friend" (enforcer, shhh), one that accompanies him on errands such as menacing drug addled Scotsmen. And another cop is his brother in law i believe. Just sayin...make of it what you will.

I'll give the answers i expect: Its a small island, not unusual they should have relations in the Police, and off-duty cops need friends too, theres no proof they are anything more than that.

[boomerangutang]

I am amazed you are amazed. The only thing that has surprised me about the case so far is just how little effort the prosecution has put into the case.

Seems to me they are not even trying to get a conviction.

I don't know how they managed to get the thing to court with the evidence shown so far.

Still the famous 4 or 5 still stand by their motto...................... In the RTP we trust.

They would like a conviction, but their main objective is to shield anyone connected to the Headman from scrutiny.Towards that goal, they're still somewhat on track, but the train is oscillating side to side.

[cumgranosalum]

DNA is only evidence is handled and analysed correctly. Eve then it is no proof of guilt, it can imply the presence of someone - so long as it wasn't planted.

Bear in mind too that tis is a country where the police have been shown to forcefully try to masturbate a prisoner in order to get a semen sample they could "use" as evidence.

[SiSePuede419]

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

We'll find that 'have' will actually be 'had'.

Thai language is not precise when using verb tenses. Plus, in order to maintain their despicable cover-up, RTP cannot allow the beach/pier footage, as well as hundreds of hours of other pertinent footage, to be seen by the defense or us little people.

100% wrong. Just because Pasa Thai doesn't conjugate verbs doesn't mean it's imprecise to past, present or future.

Past = dai

Present = gamlang

Future = yang

Thus, dai mee = had (past tense)

And mee= have (present tense)

The "communication issues" isn't the translation, it's the source 555

Edited July 24, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[AlQaholic]

As far as I can see from all comments here and other news reports; The prosecution does not have a case whatsoever without DNA evidence linking the Burmese to the victims. So the DNA is crucial for the prosecution and for them to proceed with the case, they must be 110% convinced about the DNA evidence..

If they are hanging up the case solely on the DNA evidence...any other evidence telling a different story could conveniently disappear.....

Edited July 24, 2015 by AlQaholic

[englishoak]

That's really not the case. DNA is "circumstantial evidence" meaning that the circumstances are that the person's DNA was there. It isn't for instance eyewitness testimony (which can be even less reliable).

Circumstantial evidence can prove nothing or can be damning. In this case I don't see how any western court would convict on only semen which doesn't prove where and when that happened. I think it takes something additive which I haven't heard of.

In Thailand it seems people can get convicted or let go based on who they are aren't without the rule of law.

Cheers

Blah blah blah ...

You can say what you want here, but if the police found your DNA in the body of my daughter raped and murdered it would be better for your security to stay in prison.

They havnt, they have claimed to have and that is all. ...

This is your version.

I do not believe in the conspiracy theory involving the highest authorities of the country to save a son of.

As for reading thousands of delirious pages about this, take Pity.

No its only the RTP version and remains so until its independently verified.

As for the highest authorities etc... they only have to turn a blind eye and let the circus show happen.....that much has been proven for certain.

As we all know a certain few could intervene and have the power to do so immediately, all any of them have said is "a thai couldnt have done this"..... .... that was the PM....

No point talking to you further as it seems you have no stomach for becoming properly acquainted with the case.

Cant say i blame you, its a travesty of errors and contradictions on the part of the RTP et al

[stephenterry]

According to testimony presented at the trial, both Hannah and David were last seen alive entering AC Bar. The police were aware of statements that a fight had occurred in AC Bar that night, but no attempt was made to find out what happened in AC Bar. In footage before they entered the bar, there was no indication Hannah and David were being followed by suspicious characters. It was concluded that this was not a premeditated crime. It is assumed (no CCTV footage to confirm this) that Hannah and David left the bar through the back door onto the beach. My interpretation of their attitude: What happened in a bar, how Hannah and David left, and whether they were followed, is irrelevant. The Burmese we want to be guilty were not there.

IMO, the picture the policeman wanted to paint, i.e. no premeditation, leaves room for their motivation scenario of the B2 happening upon the couple and being aroused enough to carry out a sexual assault.

Other than that, no need to prod sleeping dogs.

[smedly]

According to testimony presented at the trial, both Hannah and David were last seen alive entering AC Bar. The police were aware of statements that a fight had occurred in AC Bar that night, but no attempt was made to find out what happened in AC Bar. In footage before they entered the bar, there was no indication Hannah and David were being followed by suspicious characters. It was concluded that this was not a premeditated crime. It is assumed (no CCTV footage to confirm this) that Hannah and David left the bar through the back door onto the beach. My interpretation of their attitude: What happened in a bar, how Hannah and David left, and whether they were followed, is irrelevant. The Burmese we want to be guilty were not there.

so lets be absolutely clear about this

The very last cctv footage of Hannah and David that night was both of them going into AC bar (at different times) split by approx 1 hour - but were never seen leaving again,

and

AC bar refused to release cctv footage from inside the bar that night

and

The back of AC bar leads onto the beach (never been there)

and

cctv footage of B1 B2 B3 on a motorbike with guitar heading to their favourite spot on the beach (the log) at around 1:30am after going to store for cigs and beer (approx. time)

B1 B2 B3 on the beach that night on the log playing guitar (which they often did)

(conjecture) the big black hole.............

The accused B1 B2 leave the beach at approx 3am and were snuggled up in their beds by around 4am -

• should be cctv of b3 leaving and getting an extra beer at the store (as claimed) before going to see his girlfriend
• should be cctv of B1 B2 leaving the beach and going to bed
• should be cctv of B3 returning at around 5am and finding B1 and B2 sleeping as claimed
• suspected altercation in AC bar (not confirmed) possibly some time between 2am and 3am, possible assault on David or Hannah in the bar -

Hannah and David leave the bar together through the back door onto the beach and are followed......

fill in the blanks

.................................

next we see video footage released by the original police investigator (who was promptly removed) showing running man video, police later claim in court that it is B1 or B2 but apart from the lack of wrist bands (which they were both wearing) looks nothing like either of them, tall skinny man with strange walk and pointed nose

police looking for Mon and Nomsod as prime suspects

police removed from case..............the rest is pure fiction

Edited July 24, 2015 by smedly

[crazykopite]

I have no doubt that those who committed this dreadful crime are roaming the island free to carry out further murders in the future. In the UK this case would have been thrown out as soon as it went to court Thai police struggle to direct traffic let alone resolve a crime scene. At a recent roadside accident on Samui I witnessed the police attend and within minutes they had disturbed the area by moving the bike before taking any pictures or measurements it was like watching an old film of the Keystone cops !!!!

[AleG]

I don't think it's invalid to suggest that if the established by other means that no boats left during that time that reviewing that footage wouldn't be relevant to the investigation, or at least any more relevant than reviewing footage from any other part of the island.

But like I said before if they didn't give explanations on why that was the course they took they should.

Just to make sure I have understood correctly...

2 people gruesomely murdered.

A boat left the pier / beach 1 hour after the murders / bodies found. There is/was cctv of this (still in existance?)

If someone(s) told the police that no boat left the beach / pier near to the scene then they should just accept that and not bother confirming this information for themselves by viewing some readily available cctv footage?

I appreciate that was only one scenario you say could have taken place, but really whether it was that or ANY other scenario can you really say that is acceptable police investigating not to check cctv to validate this within hours of a double murder in the same vicinity?

Unless a better hypothetical reason can be put forward for not viewing it then I feel I must retract my recent earlier statement where I said I felt your posts were often valid and unbiased. I have to as I have no desire to even remotely endorse an opinion like that. It seems we're miles apart on what is acceptable / excusable after all.

No, you didn't understand correctly; nobody said there is CCTV of that boat leaving. They said they didn't review the CCTV from the pier and a boat left the island from somewhere else; they are two different things that are being conflated.

[boomerangutang]

Scotland Yards finest proved to be incompetent and on a 2 week taxpayer funded jolly and have nothing to do with this case.

As the sperm would be inside her its possible embalming chemicals would not destroy DNA.

http://www.quora.com/How-does-embalming-affect-the-decay-rate-of-DNA

The reports when Scotland Yard was in Thailand was they they were allowed only to "observe" and not participate and they went home empty handed. Even as an American I know those people's reputation and they appeared to be frustrated. I believe they would have solved the case if allowed to proceed. Cheers.

On the one hand, yes, we know S.Yard detectives are ordinarily good at what they do. On the other hand, it was under their auspices that the Brit victims' families were fed crapola which Brit experts had been fed prior by a silver-tongued RTP spokesman. What that proves is Brit experts were readily duped. They took the garbage in and regurgitated it out to the families. It's a disservice to the families, to say the least.

ffaaraangg uses the word 'incompetent' to describe Brit experts. That may be too nice a word. We may find out, if this case keeps self-destructing - that Brit officials WERE COMPLICIT in the cover-up. Brace yourselves, there's still a long rollercoaster ride ahead.

[eliotness]

Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.

By Sarah McBride in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI: Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Sky News 2015-07-23

Ok colonel Cherdpong , if this is true , that they actually have the footage , then for god sake check it now. So we at least can find out who the passengers on the boat were.

Very unlikely that a speedboat had left from the main pier, it is used by larger vessels; speedboats normally operate directly from the beach or from small piers at some resorts.

You are talking about under normal circumstances. Keep up to date. Two people have been horrifically murdered and two people are in prison because the real killers have been allowed to go free!

Under "normal" circumstances the boats would be picking up tourists who want to go diving etc and would be wearing appropriate clothing. Someone who wanted to get to the nearest airport would be dressed very differently and would not want to get his clothes wet climbing on board at the beach. Also if you call a boat operator at the break of dawn it would be much easier for both parties to say "meet me at the pier" than somewhere on the beach (where the bodies might have been visible).

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Koh Tao police quizzed on why they didn’t look into rumoured bar dispute

Sarah Yuen in Thailand

In testimony in court today, Lieutenant Colonel Kewalee Chanpan, from the forensic division of the Royal Thai Police, said that while the swabs used to obtain the DNA samples from the scene, and the victims’ and suspects’ bodies, would have been destroyed in the testing process, traces of the the DNA extracted from those swabs would still be available for retesting.

The police lieutenant colonel explained that trace DNA material is generally conserved for at least one to two years by the police forensics department.

While she could only speak for her own examination of the alleged murder weapon, some blood-spattered items of clothing, two cigarette butts and a condom found at the scene, she explained to the court that the same should be true for all the DNA samples gathered in the investigation. The officials responsible for the testing of DNA samples taken from the bodies of Ms Witheridge, 23, and 24 year-old David Miller, will appear in court tomorrow. The defence team had already been told by the Royal Thai Police that it could re-examine a few items, including the alleged murder weapon which is a garden hoe. But in court today, based on the new testimony, the defence team was given fresh hope that the more crucial evidence could also be re-examined.

The prosecution claims DNA from the two Burmese suspects, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both aged 22, was found on or in Ms Witheridge’s body. The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok.

The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defence.”

Not investigated

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

Read more: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

[JLCrab]

I am amazed you are amazed. The only thing that has surprised me about the case so far is just how little effort the prosecution has put into the case.

Seems to me they are not even trying to get a conviction.

I don't know how they managed to get the thing to court with the evidence shown so far.

Still the famous 4 or 5 still stand by their motto...................... In the RTP we trust.

They would like a conviction, but their main objective is to shield anyone connected to the Headman from scrutiny.Towards that goal, they're still somewhat on track, but the train is oscillating side to side.

Have you ever been to Koh Tao?

[HUH]

Koh Tao police quizzed on why they didn’t look into rumoured bar dispute

Sarah Yuen in Thailand

In testimony in court today, Lieutenant Colonel Kewalee Chanpan, from the forensic division of the Royal Thai Police, said that while the swabs used to obtain the DNA samples from the scene, and the victims’ and suspects’ bodies, would have been destroyed in the testing process, traces of the the DNA extracted from those swabs would still be available for retesting.

The police lieutenant colonel explained that trace DNA material is generally conserved for at least one to two years by the police forensics department.

While she could only speak for her own examination of the alleged murder weapon, some blood-spattered items of clothing, two cigarette butts and a condom found at the scene, she explained to the court that the same should be true for all the DNA samples gathered in the investigation. The officials responsible for the testing of DNA samples taken from the bodies of Ms Witheridge, 23, and 24 year-old David Miller, will appear in court tomorrow. The defence team had already been told by the Royal Thai Police that it could re-examine a few items, including the alleged murder weapon which is a garden hoe. But in court today, based on the new testimony, the defence team was given fresh hope that the more crucial evidence could also be re-examined.

The prosecution claims DNA from the two Burmese suspects, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both aged 22, was found on or in Ms Witheridge’s body. The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok.

The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defence.”

Not investigated

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

Read more: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Hows this one going to be spun by the shills?

[boomerangutang]

If I am honest I don't think NS (Headman's son, Nomsod) has anything to do with these disgusting crimes, maybe people connected to him did, its hard to argue some things dont point to that. I think if NS was complicit something undeniable would have surfaced.

Here are two (of many) things undeniable, which implicate Nomsod. One is specific, one is general:

>>> Running Man videos. The man shown is him.

>>> The fact that RTP and prosecution and, of course, the Headman's family and even the self-appointed PM are all trying desperately to deflect, hide, trash, discount any evidence which might point to him.

There may be other incriminating evidence, such as matching DNA (unless we're to take the word of chief cop Somyotha ha ha). .....but prosecution/RTP is saying DNA evidence doesn't exist, oh yes it does, oh no it's used up, Oh no it's not used up, some things have been lost, oh no nothing's been lost - meanwhile days/weeks/months go by, with no reliable reexamination of DNA. Note: even if DNA is allowed, Nomsod's won't be allowed (by the court) to be tested/compared to DNA found in/on Hannah. Mark my words.

[JLCrab]

Koh Tao police quizzed on why they didn’t look into rumoured bar dispute

Sarah Yuen in Thailand

< snip >

Not investigated

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

Read more: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Hows this one going to be spun by the shills?

It was a rumor.

[Dogmatix]

According to testimony presented at the trial, both Hannah and David were last seen alive entering AC Bar. The police were aware of statements that a fight had occurred in AC Bar that night, but no attempt was made to find out what happened in AC Bar. In footage before they entered the bar, there was no indication Hannah and David were being followed by suspicious characters. It was concluded that this was not a premeditated crime. It is assumed (no CCTV footage to confirm this) that Hannah and David left the bar through the back door onto the beach. My interpretation of their attitude: What happened in a bar, how Hannah and David left, and whether they were followed, is irrelevant. The Burmese we want to be guilty were not there.

so lets be absolutely clear about this

The very last cctv footage of Hannah and David that night was both of them going into AC bar (at different times) split by approx 1 hour - but were never seen leaving again,

and

AC bar refused to release cctv footage from inside the bar that night

and

The back of AC bar leads onto the beach (never been there)

and

cctv footage of B1 B2 B3 on a motorbike with guitar heading to their favourite spot on the beach (the log) at around 1:30am after going to store for cigs and beer (approx. time)

B1 B2 B3 on the beach that night on the log playing guitar (which they often did)

(conjecture) the big black hole.............

The accused B1 B2 leave the beach at approx 3am and were snuggled up in their beds by around 4am -

• should be cctv of b3 leaving and getting an extra beer at the store (as claimed) before going to see his girlfriend
• should be cctv of B1 B2 leaving the beach and going to bed
• should be cctv of B3 returning at around 5am and finding B1 and B2 sleeping as claimed
• suspected altercation in AC bar (not confirmed) possibly some time between 2am and 3am, possible assault on David or Hannah in the bar -

Hannah and David leave the bar together through the back door onto the beach and are followed......

fill in the blanks

.................................

next we see video footage released by the original police investigator (who was promptly removed) showing running man video, police later claim in court that it is B1 or B2 but apart from the lack of wrist bands (which they were both wearing) looks nothing like either of them, tall skinny man with strange walk and pointed nose

police looking for Mon and Nomsod as prime suspects

police removed from case..............the rest is pure fiction

The policeman gave evidence that following his review of hundreds of hours of CCTV he is absolutely positive that Hannah and David were not followed. Yet he didn't show footage of them leaving the AC Bar, either through front or back exit, even though he must have seen it during the hundreds of hours he diligently spent reviewing footage. What kind of testimony is that? If they were followed prior to being assaulted, this is most likely to have occurred when the left the AC Bar until they met their deaths but none of this footage has been presented as evidence. Edited July 24, 2015 by Dogmatix

[JLCrab]

If I am honest I don't think NS (Headman's son, Nomsod) has anything to do with these disgusting crimes, maybe people connected to him did, its hard to argue some things dont point to that. I think if NS was complicit something undeniable would have surfaced.

Here are two (of many) things undeniable, which implicate Nomsod. One is specific, one is general:

>>> Running Man videos. The man shown is him.

>>> The fact that RTP and prosecution and, of course, the Headman's family and even the self-appointed PM are all trying desperately to deflect, hide, trash, discount any evidence which might point to him.

There may be other incriminating evidence, such as matching DNA (unless we're to take the word of chief cop Somyotha ha ha). .....but prosecution/RTP is saying DNA evidence doesn't exist, oh yes it does, oh no it's used up, Oh no it's not used up, some things have been lost, oh no nothing's been lost - meanwhile days/weeks/months go by, with no reliable reexamination of DNA. Note: even if DNA is allowed, Nomsod's won't be allowed (by the court) to be tested/compared to DNA found in/on Hannah. Mark my words.

Perry Mason strikes again.

[AleG]

One hundred sixty pages of people running around like headless chicken screaming "No DNA! Cover-up! Cover-Up!"

Then it turns out they were wrong and what do they do? Jump to the next set of speculation and conjecture.

Some people never learn.

[eeworldwide]

I can't wait until the evidence that is held by the British Police, comes to the fore....

[smedly]

If this was my home country the case would have been tossed out by the judge already. Just like that.

I'm wondering if there's ever a time in Thailand where a judge sees that the prosecution can't prove its case "beyond a (any) reasonable doubt" and dismisses the case out of hand. If that happens the accused can't be charged or tried again. It's up to the prosecution to prove its case and never up to the defendant to prove his innocence.

This worries me about Thailand as much as anything. Is there any justice for foreigners which these boys are? We'll see.

remember it took several attempts for police to get it accepted as a case at all - now we all see why