Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[boomerangutang]

Go talk to people in Koh Tao, then you'll know who did it.

the same folks who witnessed the reenactment, yet didn't call out any accusatory words or cuss words, and didn't throw anything. All sorts of anger was expected by RTP, hence the protective gear for the B2. It's common, in Thai crime scene reenactments, for locals to loudly express their anger. The locals' silence was deafening. They know the B2 didn't do it, but I don't need to go there are talk to them to find that out. I deduced it from looking at evidence, and decided what was plausible and what was contrived. Probably more important, is to gauge who really did the crime.

Note: Months earlier, a KT island VIP was shot and killed during the day, in a public area. Did any of the local witnesses speak up to say who they thought did it? No. It's an island inhabited by people who are too scared to speak the truth. I can picture such collective self-censorship in Syria or South Sudan or N.Korea, ....but a Thai tourist island? Sad.

Edited July 17, 2015 by boomerangutang

[DLang]

Forget the CCTV images for now - is there actual witness proof or other photographic proof that Nomsod (Freshmilk) was on the island at the time?

As has been reported in the news there is zero credible evidence that has been reported that shows he was on the island and whole bunch to show he was not but don't let that prevent the theorists from coming up with scenarios where he was on the island and then further make up reasons why he would have committed these crimes all to get to their real issue which is they are angry that they believe the headsman carries a lot of weight on the island. Would almost seem the anger is coming from insecurity and jealousy when looking at this case and there be absolutely nothing to indicate his son had any involvement in the crime and some are going to the most outrageous and laughable speculation, theories and conspiracies to pin it on him even if it means the actual murdering rapists go free.

Plus Nomsod had his DNA Tested and proved it did not match with Hannah's, which has cleared several other suspects in the past, including other Migrant Workers. .

All tests were done at establishments that are not certified or qualified for criminal DNA testing. At best he had a paternity type test.

But let us not spoil the anti-conspiracy train with truth, lets use phrases like 'credible evidence' to confuse and convince.

Pathetic.

The conditions were also that he would be subjected to testing by institutes that he chose.

Being part of a multi-million dollar family in a lawless, feudal 3rd World country does have it's advantages.

[phuketandsee]

Nomsod volunteered to give his DNA for testing to clear this conspiracy theory on social media against him. His DNA did not match the sperm samples collected from Hannah or any at the crime scene.

This means he did not do it regardless if he was on the Island or not or in his dorm or not. His DNA cleared him of any wrong doing. Finish! End of Story! No need to waste further Tax Payers Money on further investigation base on some Conspiracy Theory.

1. He hardly "volunteered" to give his DNA. He refused for weeks and was finally shamed into doing it.

2. Many of us just do not trust anything the RTP say, even more so since the prosecution's main evidence has been "lost" or "used up" and they have "no budget for storing crime photos".

3. You are totally incorrect in your last statement. Even if we suspend belief and accept the results of his DNA testing all it would prove was that he didn't rape Hannah (or he used a condom). It does not clear him, or anyone else, of involvement in the murder.

[JohnThailandJohn]

As has been reported in the news there is zero credible evidence that has been reported that shows he was on the island and whole bunch to show he was not but don't let that prevent the theorists from coming up with scenarios where he was on the island and then further make up reasons why he would have committed these crimes all to get to their real issue which is they are angry that they believe the headsman carries a lot of weight on the island. Would almost seem the anger is coming from insecurity and jealousy when looking at this case and there be absolutely nothing to indicate his son had any involvement in the crime and some are going to the most outrageous and laughable speculation, theories and conspiracies to pin it on him even if it means the actual murdering rapists go free.

Plus Nomsod had his DNA Tested and proved it did not match with Hannah's, which has cleared several other suspects in the past, including other Migrant Workers. .

All tests were done at establishments that are not certified or qualified for criminal DNA testing. At best he had a paternity type test.

But let us not spoil the anti-conspiracy train with truth, lets use phrases like 'credible evidence' to confuse and convince.

Pathetic.

The conditions were also that he would be subjected to testing by institutes that he chose.

Being part of a multi-million dollar family in a lawless, feudal 3rd World country does have it's advantages.

Conditions??? This was 100% purely volunteered in an attempt to calm the social media sleuths and their absurd conspiracy theories. The police were not seeking his DNA as they already cleared him and confirmed he wasn't on the island.

[DLang]

Yes, his conditions were that he will volunteer to have his DNA tested, but only by institutes that he chose. ie, not independently tested.

[Gweiloman]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

this one

Watching these two videos again, I see something very interesting: notice how his right arm swings from the shoulder, but the left arm bends at the elbow as he swings it, in both videos. He seems to have something going on with his left arm--other photos show him holding his left arm up against his body.

What are the chances that two similar-looking people have this same odd thing going on with how they move their arms when walking? One in a million?

Only the blind / blinkered / have vested interests would not see the similarities between the two videos. Furthermore, the video purportedly shows him on the way to uni. Does any kid anywhere in the world go to university without so much as a bag or a book or a folder? I presume his phone is in his pocket.

On the day after the murders, the CI (Panya) states very clearly that they, the police, have CCTV evidence which points towards Mon and NS. These two suspects were subsequently (and very quickly imo) "cleared". Nevertheless, that meant that at one time, there existed CCTV footage showing two or more persons. Sadly, as these suspects are not on trial, we will never see this footage and what's the bet that it has also been "lost"?

Some of JTJ's and GB's post are so far out almost to the point of trolling. I really hope that they are not trolling because two young people have lost their lives and another two young lives are on the line. But their steadfast denials without questioning the extremely flimsy and dubious "evidence" being presented by the prosecution beggars belief.

For JTJ to speculate that some posters are jealous of the power and wealth of the Headman is just hilarious. To JTJ, most people have a conscience. These same people want to see the criminals brought to trial and that justice is served. If there is IRREFUTABLE evidence that the B2 are guilty (eye witnesses, blood stained clothing, fingerprints and/or DNA from murder weapon(s), genuine confessions (not that "extracted" under torture or threat of torture etc), then without doubt, the most vocal supporters would immediately demand for their execution or life long imprisonment without possibility of parole.

However, what we have here just seems like a concocted story being made up as we go along. Some other pieces of evidence are purely circumstantial and unlikely to bear any relevance to the case. A cigarette butt with the DNA of the accused found in the vicinity? So? If this crime had happened say in Bkk and the suspects normally lives in Pattaya, there could be some weight to this evidence. But KT is a small island, the migrant workers most probably spend a lot of their free time on the beaches anyway. I'm sure that if the RTP were to scour the beach, they would be retrieve hundreds if not thousands of cigarette butts containing the DNA's of hundreds of different people.

DNA found on the victim's bodies. I don't recall reading anywhere that the B2's DNA was actually matched to the sperm samples retrieved, just that they were matched to DNA found on the victims. If indeed it's matched to the sperm samples, then it must be nigh on impossible for the samples to be used up. It could be "conveniently" lost though.

As for GB, he makes up "facts" as he goes along, much like the RTP. He may fool some new readers but for those of us that has followed the case from the beginning, a lot of his posts are riddled with inaccuracies that we can't be bothered to point out.

[Jonathan Fairfield]

This Septic Isle: Backpackers, Bloodshed and the Secretive World of Koh Tao

Charlie Campbell / Koh Tao and Koh Samui

KOH TAO:-- The balcony of room A5 at Ocean View Bungalows commands one of the finest vistas of Koh Tao’s sweeping Sairee Beach.

Traditional longtail boats, a rainbow of scarves adorning their bows, bob on the lapping water of the glistening bay. And right in the foreground, rising proudly from sliver sands, protrude a scattering of granite boulders, a furtive relic of this tranquil 21-sq-km (8 sq. mi.) island’s volcanic inception.

These rocks are no strangers to explosive secrets. On Sept. 15, one of the occupants of that same room A5, Hannah Witheridge, was found bludgeoned to death in their midst alongside fellow British tourist David Miller, just a short stumble from her door. Witheridge, 23, from Great Yarmouth, a seaside town on the English east coast, had been raped and killed by blows to the head.

Miller, a year older and from Jersey, one of the U.K.’s Channel Islands, had likewise suffered deep lacerations to his skull before drowning in the shallow surf.

Read more: http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-zaw-lin-wai-phyo-burma-myanmar/

-Time 2015-07-16

[JohnThailandJohn]

2. Many of us just do not trust anything the RTP say

This is absolutely untrue. What is being done is taking selective things stated or attributed to police, especially early on comments that have since been corrected /updated as it was incorrect speculation, and using those (often twisted) to build ridiculous theories while ignoring updates or doing what you have just done and saying police cannot be trusted when it is something that blows a whole in their unfounded and implausible theories.

Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue. Reading through much of these things here is painful but it is also fascinating to see how far people will depart from reality to keep up this game they have created for their own psychological needs. I too get caught up in this as I just can't resist jumping in sometimes to point out the obvious despite the fact I know the chances are slim to none anyone will be awakened back to reality.

The arguments are all circle and illogical ... we want DNA tested outside the police yet later the same person will say police fudged the DNA. Well now that they have had the evidence and the suspects for months, don't you think it logical they could plant their DNA on a cigarette butt or weapon by now? Yet, there is then the pretending all the DNA is lost by the same guys who were able to plant the accused semen in the victim. Just all goes in a big circle but all comes down to being like a little kid screaming with his hands over his ears because he doesn't want to hear the truth. NOTHING is going to change their mind even if the two plead guilty as they will say they pled for other reasons or if the defense tests the DNA and it matches theirs, it will be said police manipulated the evidence before turning it over. Same type of BS about the kid who was in Bangkok. No DNA, Video, Witnesses or anything else will show he is not guilty despite the fact there is NOTHING to indicate he was in anyway involved.

It is just fascinating to see this continue on by some even though months have passed for people to get their emotions in check and come back down to reality.

Edited July 17, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[Nigeone]

2. Many of us just do not trust anything the RTP say

This is absolutely untrue. What is being done is taking selective things stated or attributed to police, especially early on comments that have since been corrected /updated as it was incorrect speculation, and using those (often twisted) to build ridiculous theories while ignoring updates or doing what you have just done and saying police cannot be trusted when it is something that blows a whole in their unfounded and implausible theories.

Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue. Reading through much of these things here is painful but it is also fascinating to see how far people will depart from reality to keep up this game they have created for their own psychological needs. I too get caught up in this as I just can't resist jumping in sometimes to point out the obvious despite the fact I know the chances are slim to none anyone will be awakened back to reality.

The arguments are all circle and illogical ... we want DNA tested outside the police yet later the same person will say police fudged the DNA. Well now that they have had the evidence and the suspects for months, don't you think it logical they could plant their DNA on a cigarette butt or weapon by now? Yet, there is then the pretending all the DNA is lost by the same guys who were able to plant the accused semen in the victim. Just all goes in a big circle but all comes down to being like a little kid screaming with his hands over his ears because he doesn't want to hear the truth. NOTHING is going to change their mind even if the two plead guilty as they will say they pled for other reasons or if the defense tests the DNA and it matches theirs, it will be said police manipulated the evidence before turning it over. Same type of BS about the kid who was in Bangkok. No DNA, Video, Witnesses or anything else will show he is not guilty despite the fact there is NOTHING to indicate he was in anyway involved.

It is just fascinating to see this continue on by some even though months have passed for people to get their emotions in check and come back down to reality.

DNA was not independently verified as required by international protocol. Crime scene was compromised and not sterile at any time. Unqualified personnel collected the DNA. Shall I go on. In a credible jurisdiction the DNA is utterly and totally worthless. Collecting of DNA samples should be carried with sterile gloves which should be discarded after each sample to stop cross contamination ..Did you see the pictures of the young RTP guys collecting multiple samples without changing gloves. Members of the public freely moved around th crime scene and persons moved David and the murder weapon. How much proof do you defenders of RTP need to blow the case out of the water.

[stephenterry]

Re 2460 post -JTJ. Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue.

This statement is both untrue and misleading. The key DNA evidence, which includes the samples found on the female victim, have either been 'lost' or finished' according to the police statement at the court. However, the DNA result reports are intact, but as there are no underlying samples to re-test, then the reports cannot be substantiated/verified/validated. As Andy Hall, states, this undermines the prosecution's case. Whether the court would be prepared to accept the reports without any substantiation, is another story.

Is that clear?

[JohnThailandJohn]

2. Many of us just do not trust anything the RTP say

This is absolutely untrue. What is being done is taking selective things stated or attributed to police, especially early on comments that have since been corrected /updated as it was incorrect speculation, and using those (often twisted) to build ridiculous theories while ignoring updates or doing what you have just done and saying police cannot be trusted when it is something that blows a whole in their unfounded and implausible theories.

Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue. Reading through much of these things here is painful but it is also fascinating to see how far people will depart from reality to keep up this game they have created for their own psychological needs. I too get caught up in this as I just can't resist jumping in sometimes to point out the obvious despite the fact I know the chances are slim to none anyone will be awakened back to reality.

The arguments are all circle and illogical ... we want DNA tested outside the police yet later the same person will say police fudged the DNA. Well now that they have had the evidence and the suspects for months, don't you think it logical they could plant their DNA on a cigarette butt or weapon by now? Yet, there is then the pretending all the DNA is lost by the same guys who were able to plant the accused semen in the victim. Just all goes in a big circle but all comes down to being like a little kid screaming with his hands over his ears because he doesn't want to hear the truth. NOTHING is going to change their mind even if the two plead guilty as they will say they pled for other reasons or if the defense tests the DNA and it matches theirs, it will be said police manipulated the evidence before turning it over. Same type of BS about the kid who was in Bangkok. No DNA, Video, Witnesses or anything else will show he is not guilty despite the fact there is NOTHING to indicate he was in anyway involved.

It is just fascinating to see this continue on by some even though months have passed for people to get their emotions in check and come back down to reality.

DNA was not independently verified as required by international protocol. Crime scene was compromised and not sterile at any time. Unqualified personnel collected the DNA. Shall I go on. In a credible jurisdiction the DNA is utterly and totally worthless. Collecting of DNA samples should be carried with sterile gloves which should be discarded after each sample to stop cross contamination ..Did you see the pictures of the young RTP guys collecting multiple samples without changing gloves. Members of the public freely moved around th crime scene and persons moved David and the murder weapon. How much proof do you defenders of RTP need to blow the case out of the water.

What in the world are you talking about international protocol being independently verified? Not sure in other parts of the world but in the US DNA is collected by police and sent to police labs. .. and the coroner works for the government too as well as those collecting and testing the DNA. No different for the FBI. As for the other things you mention, no amount of sloppy work at the crime scene is going to put the suspect's semen in one of the victims or even their DNA on the same type of cigarette they were seen buying on video ... and by the way they continue to admit they were there smoking as others witnessed. Given this and other evidence against the two including the phone and witness they gave it to, the only thing that would explain the police case, if they are purely innocent, is a mass conspiracy involving many to frame them.

[stickylies]

^^ On a general note I agree there's a lot of paranoia on TV. File under: tropical fatigue and chronic boredom...

[JohnThailandJohn]

Re 2460 post -JTJ. Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue.

This statement is both untrue and misleading. The key DNA evidence, which includes the samples found on the female victim, have either been 'lost' or finished' according to the police statement at the court. However, the DNA result reports are intact, but as there are no underlying samples to re-test, then the reports cannot be substantiated/verified/validated. As Andy Hall, states, this undermines the prosecution's case. Whether the court would be prepared to accept the reports without any substantiation, is another story.

Is that clear?

"It is not lost," national police chief Somyot Poompanmoung told reporters in Bangkok. "I repeat: Nothing is lost."

Pol Gen Somyot called it a misunderstanding that stemmed from foreign media covering the case who might have poor Thai language skills.

He said the local police investigator, Lt Col Somsak Nurod, was vague in his testimony and therefore was misinterpreted. Lt Col Somsak was no longer in possession of the DNA evidence since he collected it and then sent it to the Forensics Medicine Institute in Bangkok, Pol Gen Somyot said.

"Nothing is missing. It's a misunderstanding," the police chief said.

[Rykbanlor]

Lets just stop this thread now before we reach 100 pages.

We've thrashed out all the material we have and there is nothing more to gain except arguing one way or another.

[eliotness]

I find it odd that there has never been any mention of samples taken from under Hannah's fingernails. I have heard in many cases of rape and murder of females that the lady has tried to fight back with the only natural weapon she has, her fingernails. But in this case I never seen it mentioned. Apologies if it was and I missed it. I feel certain that the UK forensics people will have checked, maybe that's the evidence the defence are holding close to their chest. Also I have never heard whether the B2 had scratches on their faces or bodies, but I did see a suggestion that someone else did. Can anyone confirm this ?

[Rykbanlor]

The next day court day, the 22nd, may be a more appropriate time to get back to it.

[Nigeone]

Re 2460 post -JTJ. Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue.

This statement is both untrue and misleading. The key DNA evidence, which includes the samples found on the female victim, have either been 'lost' or finished' according to the police statement at the court. However, the DNA result reports are intact, but as there are no underlying samples to re-test, then the reports cannot be substantiated/verified/validated. As Andy Hall, states, this undermines the prosecution's case. Whether the court would be prepared to accept the reports without any substantiation, is another story.

Is that clear?

Clear for me mate. Let's see what DNA evidence is not lost or used up when the trial continues. Also the alleged missing hair and probably more. The walls are closing in on the prosecution and up to now there the best defence . At the moment the RTP are involved in a cover up,the local gangsters are involved in the cover up and the Big leader is involved as I'm sure he knows the real story. Are we going for a full hand and the court judges too? Very very sad situation allegedly !

[Nigeone]

I haven't seen the pictures but it's been said by people that have that David had marks consistent with a short blade type knife or stab item.Has it ever been mentioned by RTP or any other persons involved with the case?? It seems something that's just gone under the radar?

[Just1Voice]

JTJ and GOLDBUGGY, conveniently seem to forget a few things:

In the ORIGINAL investigation, the head police honcho CLEARLY STATED that they had "strong evidence" that linked both Mon and Namsod to the crime. Remember that?

Then, out of nowhere, said police was quickly yanked from the investigation, given a promotion and shifted to a desk in BKK, and another police big wig was appointed, and IMMEDIATELY cleared the original 2 suspects.

The police were flatly denied the cctv videos from the bar of the night in question.

Mon was supposedly in BKK at university for serious exams, but questions reveal that he didn't even show up for those exams. Now, why is that?

Mon and Namson flatly refused to take DNA test for weeks, before finally agreeing to, but on THEIR conditions. And, surprisingly, their results were back in 4 HOURS, which is impossible to do.

In earlier reports there were also comments from some of his school chums that when he did report to class, they saw multiple scratches (like those from a fight) on his arms.

There's more, but these two individuals (JTJ & GB) are either so ignorant to accept facts, or have serious "connections" to K.T., that they will deny anything and everything that in any way viably connects Mon, Namsod, and the Big Cheese on the island to these horrendous murders, but will wholeheartedly swallow any pill of unverifiable circumstantial and bull crap evidence against the B2.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Just1Voice

[stephenterry]

Re 2460 post -JTJ. Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue.

This statement is both untrue and misleading. The key DNA evidence, which includes the samples found on the female victim, have either been 'lost' or finished' according to the police statement at the court. However, the DNA result reports are intact, but as there are no underlying samples to re-test, then the reports cannot be substantiated/verified/validated. As Andy Hall, states, this undermines the prosecution's case. Whether the court would be prepared to accept the reports without any substantiation, is another story.

Is that clear?

"It is not lost," national police chief Somyot Poompanmoung told reporters in Bangkok. "I repeat: Nothing is lost."

Pol Gen Somyot called it a misunderstanding that stemmed from foreign media covering the case who might have poor Thai language skills.

He said the local police investigator, Lt Col Somsak Nurod, was vague in his testimony and therefore was misinterpreted. Lt Col Somsak was no longer in possession of the DNA evidence since he collected it and then sent it to the Forensics Medicine Institute in Bangkok, Pol Gen Somyot said.

"Nothing is missing. It's a misunderstanding," the police chief said.

Then why can't the defence test the samples? because they don't exist. You really ought to keep abreast of matters.

Bangkok (AFP) - The defence team for two Myanmar nationals accused of murdering a pair of British backpackers in Thailand confirmed Sunday that they will not be able to retest crucial DNA samples taken from the victims' bodies.

They had asked trial judges on the nearby island of Koh Samui permission to independently retest all the police's DNA samples.

On Friday the court ruled that they could do so.

But there was confusion about which samples left in police possession were still in a suitable state for retesting -- particularly the crucial swabs taken from Miller and Witheridge's bodies.

Lead defence lawyer Nakhon Chomphuchart told AFP Sunday that only a handful of items found near the crime scene can be reexamined, including a garden hoe -- the suspected murder weapon -- a shoe, a sock and some plastic bags.

But swabs from the victims were among the DNA samples used up in the testing process.

"We wanted to be able to test more but with the other items there are no samples left (to test)," he said.

Edited July 17, 2015 by stephenterry

[JohnThailandJohn]

JTJ and GOLDBUGGY, conveniently seem to forget that in the ORIGINAL investigation, the head police honcho CLEARLY STATED that they had "strong evidence" that linked both Mon and Namsod to the crime. Remember that? Then, out of nowhere, said police was quickly yanked from the investigation, given a promotion and shifted to a desk in BKK, and another police big wig was appointed, and IMMEDIATELY cleared the original 2 suspects.

The police were flatly denied the cctv videos of the night in question.

Mon was supposedly in BKK at university for serious exams, but questions reveal that he didn't even show up for those exams. Now, why is that?

Mon and Namson flatly refused to take DNA

Only you seem to be forgetting the police accused a lot of people in the beginning (inlcuding a friend of the victim who they say they found blood on his clothes) and said a lot of other things that turned out to be incorrect. You also seem to be forgetting the fact, which has been repeated numerous times and linked to on these threads, that the the move in command was planned and announced prior to the murders and took place on the exact date they said it would prior to the move.

As for the rest of your post, it too is nonsense and it gets old correcting such nonsense as it will just be deflected and ignored so it can be repeated again and again.

[BritTim]

So you base their innocents on that their is no DNA left for further testing?

Well then, you had better let out the +95% Convicted Murders in your country because they never had their DNA Evidence done twice either. While you are at that, maybe protested against the Prosecution Team in your country for not assisting the the Defense in making their case. In my country the Prosecution tries to provide evidence in court that the accused are guilty beyond reasonable doubt. They do not try to prove that the accused are innocent.

DNA testing that leaves no portion of the original sample for retesting is quite rare. In any country with a half functional legal system, if such testing is contemplated, a careful procedure must be followed, including independent witnesses and photographic record of the testing. In my country, DNA evidence often clears suspects because samples are not lost or used up.

[Nigeone]

2. Many of us just do not trust anything the RTP say

This is absolutely untrue. What is being done is taking selective things stated or attributed to police, especially early on comments that have since been corrected /updated as it was incorrect speculation, and using those (often twisted) to build ridiculous theories while ignoring updates or doing what you have just done and saying police cannot be trusted when it is something that blows a whole in their unfounded and implausible theories.

Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue. Reading through much of these things here is painful but it is also fascinating to see how far people will depart from reality to keep up this game they have created for their own psychological needs. I too get caught up in this as I just can't resist jumping in sometimes to point out the obvious despite the fact I know the chances are slim to none anyone will be awakened back to reality.

The arguments are all circle and illogical ... we want DNA tested outside the police yet later the same person will say police fudged the DNA. Well now that they have had the evidence and the suspects for months, don't you think it logical they could plant their DNA on a cigarette butt or weapon by now? Yet, there is then the pretending all the DNA is lost by the same guys who were able to plant the accused semen in the victim. Just all goes in a big circle but all comes down to being like a little kid screaming with his hands over his ears because he doesn't want to hear the truth. NOTHING is going to change their mind even if the two plead guilty as they will say they pled for other reasons or if the defense tests the DNA and it matches theirs, it will be said police manipulated the evidence before turning it over. Same type of BS about the kid who was in Bangkok. No DNA, Video, Witnesses or anything else will show he is not guilty despite the fact there is NOTHING to indicate he was in anyway involved.

It is just fascinating to see this continue on by some even though months have passed for people to get their emotions in check and come back down to reality.

DNA was not independently verified as required by international protocol. Crime scene was compromised and not sterile at any time. Unqualified personnel collected the DNA. Shall I go on. In a credible jurisdiction the DNA is utterly and totally worthless. Collecting of DNA samples should be carried with sterile gloves which should be discarded after each sample to stop cross contamination ..Did you see the pictures of the young RTP guys collecting multiple samples without changing gloves. Members of the public freely moved around th crime scene and persons moved David and the murder weapon. How much proof do you defenders of RTP need to blow the case out of the water.

What in the world are you talking about international protocol being independently verified? Not sure in other parts of the world but in the US DNA is collected by police and sent to police labs. .. and the coroner works for the government too as well as those collecting and testing the DNA. No different for the FBI. As for the other things you mention, no amount of sloppy work at the crime scene is going to put the suspect's semen in one of the victims or even their DNA on the same type of cigarette they were seen buying on video ... and by the way they continue to admit they were there smoking as others witnessed. Given this and other evidence against the two including the phone and witness they gave it to, the only thing that would explain the police case, if they are purely innocent, is a mass conspiracy involving many to frame them.

How does the B2 DNA on a cigarette butt have anything to do with the crime.It just tells you there were there on the beach some time. Which they admitted to. No no sloppy work is going to put DNA in the victims. Is this the same DNA that's used up now? and can't be checked? How did the DNA get inside the body? You don't know how! you have a theory but how can you prove it.you can't . Was there DNA inside the body? How do you know there was? Because the RTP says so..oh okay..that's fine then. They don't EVER tell,lies do they!

Enough . You actually have actually said what most people believe has happened in this case. Are you coming round to seeing what everybody else has seen from day one almost! A mass conspiracy involving many to frame them..your quote

[Linky]

As has been reported in the news there is zero credible evidence that has been reported that shows he was on the island and whole bunch to show he was not but don't let that prevent the theorists from coming up with scenarios where he was on the island and then further make up reasons why he would have committed these crimes all to get to their real issue which is they are angry that they believe the headsman carries a lot of weight on the island. Would almost seem the anger is coming from insecurity and jealousy when looking at this case and there be absolutely nothing to indicate his son had any involvement in the crime and some are going to the most outrageous and laughable speculation, theories and conspiracies to pin it on him even if it means the actual murdering rapists go free.

Plus Nomsod had his DNA Tested and proved it did not match with Hannah's, which has cleared several other suspects in the past, including other Migrant Workers. .

All tests were done at establishments that are not certified or qualified for criminal DNA testing. At best he had a paternity type test.

But let us not spoil the anti-conspiracy train with truth, lets use phrases like 'credible evidence' to confuse and convince.

Pathetic.

The conditions were also that he would be subjected to testing by institutes that he chose.

Being part of a multi-million dollar family in a lawless, feudal 3rd World country does have it's advantages.

Conditions??? This was 100% purely volunteered in an attempt to calm the social media sleuths and their absurd conspiracy theories. The police were not seeking his DNA as they already cleared him and confirmed he wasn't on the island.

Well you have unwittingly just given a reason to dispute the dna results.

The police had already cleared him. So after they had cleared him do you really think they would then say the dna matched and he was to be charged? What a huge loss of face.

Then you should use common sense, something you seem to lack. Why did the police refuse to make public the dna result? Do they really think their word is good enough?

If there was nothing to hide they should have provided the results when requested instead of just having staged a nice show.

Thats what anyone with common sense would consider very strange.

I'm sure you dont though.

[BritTim]

Only you seem to be forgetting the police accused a lot of people in the beginning (inlcuding a friend of the victim who they say they found blood on his clothes) and said a lot of other things that turned out to be incorrect. You also seem to be forgetting the fact, which has been repeated numerous times and linked to on these threads, that the the move in command was planned and announced prior to the murders and took place on the exact date they said it would prior to the move.

As for the rest of your post, it too is nonsense and it gets old correcting such nonsense as it will just be deflected and ignored so it can be repeated again and again.

John, if you are saying that some legitimate suspects, plus more than one attempted frame up, were observed before settling on the Burmese kids as the eventual scapegoats, then I agree with you. You are also correct that the promotion of Pol Lt Gen Panya had nothing to do with the choice of scapegoats. None of this changes the fact that it is highly unlikely that the Burmese kids did it.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Re 2460 post -JTJ. Same thing happens now as people bury their head in the sand and pretend that all the DNA evidence has been lost despite the fact this has since been clarified as being untrue.

This statement is both untrue and misleading. The key DNA evidence, which includes the samples found on the female victim, have either been 'lost' or finished' according to the police statement at the court. However, the DNA result reports are intact, but as there are no underlying samples to re-test, then the reports cannot be substantiated/verified/validated. As Andy Hall, states, this undermines the prosecution's case. Whether the court would be prepared to accept the reports without any substantiation, is another story.

Is that clear?

"It is not lost," national police chief Somyot Poompanmoung told reporters in Bangkok. "I repeat: Nothing is lost."

Pol Gen Somyot called it a misunderstanding that stemmed from foreign media covering the case who might have poor Thai language skills.

He said the local police investigator, Lt Col Somsak Nurod, was vague in his testimony and therefore was misinterpreted. Lt Col Somsak was no longer in possession of the DNA evidence since he collected it and then sent it to the Forensics Medicine Institute in Bangkok, Pol Gen Somyot said.

"Nothing is missing. It's a misunderstanding," the police chief said.

Then why can't the defence test the samples? because they don't exist. You really ought to keep abreast of matters.

As has been reported for the last 6 days that the judge just ordered all the evidence be sent to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science to be retested in line with a defence request.

Must we really continue to play this game of what has been widely reported vs what you want to pretend has not?

Edited July 17, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[GOLDBUGGY]

GOLDBUGGY

This guy is a troll. Pease don't respond to his clips. just ignore him and let him communicate to the headman who is supporting and paying him.

It seems also that many trolls are trying to pick the brains of faring to know what evidence is out there , and hoping to get and formulate answers to counter it. The trial will resume soon. the defence will come on stream. Please don't give out valuable information to arm the prosecutor and headman and his mafia gang with anything that they can use to cover up. keep them guessing , and ignore their mouth piece in GOLDGUGGER

Do you even have any clue what you sound like. Literally your post makes you sound clinically delusional and paranoid. Headsman paying posters and posters having secretive evidence????? I honestly am not trying to flame you but there is just no other way to describe what you are saying.

I would tend to agree that the prosecutor, headman and his 'mafia' gang are fully protected from the law, by virtue of their position in Thai society (high ranking political contacts and shed loads of money). And they, no doubt, couldn't give a toss what anyone on here thinks.

Until (if ever) there is a sea-change in Thai officialdom's thinking that would permit overhauling the 'justice' system to ensure and enforce fair and transparent investigations and trials, 'justice' will continue to be bought.

Then I guess you didn't read the news lately where Thailand has just increased the penalty for corruptions of Thai Officials, and the people offering these bribes, from 20 years in prison to the Death Penalty.

[BritTim]

As has been reported for the last 6 days that the judge just ordered all the evidence be sent to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science to be retested in line with a defence request.

Must we really continue to play this game of what has been widely reported vs what you want to pretend has not?

Quite true John. The problem is that the police seem to be saying that, apart from a washed alleged murder weapon, little such evidence still exists. Some is "lost". Some is "used up: What is left is the police's word that this is a perfect investigation and all the testing was done to the highest international standards. Some of us doubt the reliability of the police statements (both those prior to October 2 when the Burmese kids were arrested and afterwards) and would prefer some verifiable physical evidence.

[newcomer71]

I do watch this thread 2-3 times a day... I sometimes wish to post something, then seen how someone purposely twists other users posts and fuel the fire, I just given up... Today I am in a good mood and I will try.

My opinion: police made an awful investigation also being under pressure from high brasses to find ANY guily party to protect Koh Tao tourism and economy.

Sure they showed the best of their values: incompetence, bullying and God knows even corruptibility.

This whole trial is a joke in front of every single person in the world with a decent IQ.

Police and prosecution have shown they want someone to be convicted, but with no credible proof whatsoever.

I don't know if 2B, Nomsod, Mon, or whichever else are guilty. But after this trial, sure justice won't be done. Whatever will be the outcome.

[GOLDBUGGY]

As has been reported in the news there is zero credible evidence that has been reported that shows he was on the island and whole bunch to show he was not but don't let that prevent the theorists from coming up with scenarios where he was on the island and then further make up reasons why he would have committed these crimes all to get to their real issue which is they are angry that they believe the headsman carries a lot of weight on the island. Would almost seem the anger is coming from insecurity and jealousy when looking at this case and there be absolutely nothing to indicate his son had any involvement in the crime and some are going to the most outrageous and laughable speculation, theories and conspiracies to pin it on him even if it means the actual murdering rapists go free.

Plus Nomsod had his DNA Tested and proved it did not match with Hannah's, which has cleared several other suspects in the past, including other Migrant Workers. .

All tests were done at establishments that are not certified or qualified for criminal DNA testing. At best he had a paternity type test.

But let us not spoil the anti-conspiracy train with truth, lets use phrases like 'credible evidence' to confuse and convince.

Pathetic.

The conditions were also that he would be subjected to testing by institutes that he chose.

Being part of a multi-million dollar family in a lawless, feudal 3rd World country does have it's advantages.

Conditions??? This was 100% purely volunteered in an attempt to calm the social media sleuths and their absurd conspiracy theories. The police were not seeking his DNA as they already cleared him and confirmed he wasn't on the island.

Well you have unwittingly just given a reason to dispute the dna results.

The police had already cleared him. So after they had cleared him do you really think they would then say the dna matched and he was to be charged? What a huge loss of face.

Then you should use common sense, something you seem to lack. Why did the police refuse to make public the dna result? Do they really think their word is good enough?

If there was nothing to hide they should have provided the results when requested instead of just having staged a nice show.

Thats what anyone with common sense would consider very strange.

I'm sure you dont though.

Well, if it was me who committed this crime, and I was cleared as a suspect and did not have to provide DNA, like Nomsod, let me tell you this honestly.

That the very last bloody thing I would even think on doing is now go to the Police and tell them I wanted my DNA Tested, and like Nomsod did do..

And yet you talk to me about using some common sense here???