Academic blames military for weakening democracy

[Fat Haggis]

Your 10 coups short of being correct

Democracy isn't allowed to progress further than 4-10 years as soon as they Army stop interfering Thailand might, just might stand a chance of moving forwards.

I'd love to see the Eastern Tigers banned at the same time they ban/dis love the PTP but it ain't going to happen, it will to one group of egomaniacs but not to the other one.

I know the eastern tigers are not a political party and cannot be banned but they sure as hell act like they're one!!

[masquerade]

What Thailand needs right mow is to be colonised. Sorry, second thoughts, they are by the Chinese.

[ABCer]

Thanks for correcting me. My education in Thai history only said 9 Coups from 1930. Wouldn't argue as I don't really know better.

Now, if according to your count we are looking back at 19 Coups - this only reinforces my idea that Thailand isn't ready for real Democracy.

As to the other suggestion - for being colonized - I presume in order to establish/import Democracy? I doubt very much this would help.

Democracy cannot be imposed by outside force. "The Greatest Democracy" of the day has so far failed miserably in this task.

Besides, can you point out to me a more democratic country in immediate neighbourhood? Burma? Laos? Cambodja? Vietnam? China?

I think, my friend, you were joking... sorry if I didn't get the joke.

Edited July 12, 2015 by ABCer

[seajae]

Ask your wife and kids to wear a hunger games t-shirt. Armed with a book called 1984 whilst eating a sandwich in Siam Paragon and let us know what they thought, and then come back and paint the rosy picture that it's all lies about the junta clampdown.

mate, this answer is pathetic, thought you had more sense that this type of crap. Like you I served in the forces and I dont know about the pommie army but our senior officers at least had more intelligence than most politicians. Using pretty pathetic statements like this is beneath your usual standard, at least come up with something rational, not being able to hold protests and trying to cause conflicts among the populace is not an excuse to bag it nor is having to wait till next year to vote but then again when you dont have anything else to bitch about people will grasp at anything they can to voice their personal bias. Still waiting for anyone to point out what they can no longer do that the general is top dog that they could before he got there apart from being totally corrupt/stealing whatever they can and not having to obey the law, seems these are things a lot of those upset are really p*ssed about.

Edited July 12, 2015 by seajae

[sawadee1947]

Australian academic:

This is clearly a slight towards Thailand but could the same measure be placed on other situations around the world perhaps?

Just off the top of my head, what about Iraq or Afghanistan.

These are Australia, US and UK backed military coups

"In my view, this series of actions could never be a path towards democracy, no matter what the generals in charge may say. These are actions that are both individually and in sum detrimental to the exercise and promotion of human rights."

In my view (not a reasoned argument - but an opinion), its a great idea to give the country a chance to settle down after a long period of intractable political stalemate. (Australia is not really in a strong position to lecture anyone on human rights- their widely disputed policy on dealing with asylum seekers is a key case in point)

"This is dangerous because this institutionalizes and gives a legal clause to otherwise illegal actions that are explicitly damaging the protection and promotion of human rights, democracy and the rule of law."

Yes too true. Look at the problems that have been occurring in Iraq and Afghanistan since the US led forces intervened 15 years ago. Interesting that the coups in Thailand seem not to involve the same level of violent insurrection? Could it be the absence of the violence and human rights abuses committed as in other situations?

The 'academic' has a strong bias against the coup, but has omitted to comment on the circumstances under which the coup came about.

I recall a table with political representatives sitting at it and refusing to reach any agreement, whilst the country slid into an economic and politically militant decline. As politicians refused to act for the good of the country and its people, the military took charge, as they would do in other countries in similar circumstances.

The difference being in other countries the ex- political leaders would be taken out the back and shot. But Thailand has shown a unique ability to allow politicians - even corrupt politicians to remain free.

With a promise to restore democracy after redrafting a constitution to stop these scenarios reoccurring and ensuring corruption can be routed out.

BTW - try making a political protest in Australia and see how far you get?

Right now there are factions supporting IS who have no freedom of speech and are being aggressively hunted by the Australian government.

I don't have a problem with that, but I also recognize Thailand needs time to heal without the interference of so called 'experts', legitimizing their personal bias as academic opinion.

don't have a problem with that, but I also recognize Thailand needs time to heal without the interference of so called 'experts', legitimizing their personal bias as academic opinion.

that is simply impossible. You can't ORDER peace without granting freedom of speech, freedom of press or freedom for voting. You might call it whatever you want but there is no healing whatsoever.

The problems will be still the same and no solution in sight

[Equalizer]

I can't speak for "Bannum" but the circumstances surrounding the military takeover are actually very simply described.

An elected government, faced with strong extra parliamentary opposition called an election in a totally constitutional manner.

Said extra parliamentary opposition, aware that they could not muster a majority trashed the election through street thuggery. The military stood by and allowed the election to be trashed, and then used the resulting impasse as their excuse to seize power.

It was carefully planned.

Those were the circumstances surrounding the military takeover.

'then used the resulting impasse...'

Political stalemate - is an impasse

We might disagree on the origins but share a similar view about the circumstances.

Manbing your are away with the fairies mate.

[Equalizer]

For anyone with opinions.

Coup is a flawed democracy.

Democracy without regarding rights and wishes of others is nothing but rule of mob or Anarchy.

I have been waiting for this Coup for 6 months before it took place.

I don't think my Human Rights are abused or trampled on by what you call "Hunta".

When it so happens that present Leaders put their foot in the mouth - I remind myself of the others before them.

When the present Leaders do some things I disagree with - I remind myself of the others before them.

At least I can go where I want, I can drive where I want and be not afraid.

Only after you have some kind of Law and Order you can start demanding it to be the same for all.

For this kind of Democracy Thailand is clearly not ready.

For this kind of Democracy there are many prerequisites Thais must learn first.

One of these prerequisites is for your Academics be academicians not only in name, title and salary.

Ya see, where all these 'I don't see any rights being trampled on' posts fall flat on their faces is exactly that, you don't see them because you're not allowed. There are little bits that slip through, the landless poor being systematically thrown off their generations held land plots to give to wealthy mates, being just one. Villagers hunger striking to protect their environment from a little publicised coal fired port in the Andaman another. There surely must be more. And 'Haberkorn said this included the junta passing orders that were treated as law and adjudicating civilian cases within the military judicial system' which is what some of us posters have been answering to those who bang on about 'obeying the law' keep saying. There isn't any. They are dictats, look up the difference.

These are common practices whoever is in power. And have been for ages.

Are you suggesting that red shirts in power protect the poor?

As they did with the rice scheme helping the poor by taking away all that confusing money.

And Sutheps multi billion baht palm oil scam!!!!

[Fat Haggis]

Ask your wife and kids to wear a hunger games t-shirt. Armed with a book called 1984 whilst eating a sandwich in Siam Paragon and let us know what they thought, and then come back and paint the rosy picture that it's all lies about the junta clampdown.

mate, this answer is pathetic, thought you had more sense that this type of crap. Like you I served in the forces and I dont know about the pommie army but our senior officers at least had more intelligence than most politicians. Using pretty pathetic statements like this is beneath your usual standard, at least come up with something rational, not being able to hold protests and trying to cause conflicts among the populace is not an excuse to bag it nor is having to wait till next year to vote but then again when you dont have anything else to bitch about people will grasp at anything they can to voice their personal bias. Still waiting for anyone to point out what they can no longer do that the general is top dog that they could before he got there apart from being totally corrupt/stealing whatever they can and not having to obey the law, seems these are things a lot of those upset are really p*ssed about.

not one single farang has had any of their liberties curtailed, and yet it seems to be a major selling point of the kool aid drinkers that "hey, MY liberties are fine, I can go anywhere, nobody stops me blah blah blah so why do people say the junta are doing this when its not true"

It's every bit as pathetic as my response about your wife and family, and as pathetic as it is, please tell me what is so bad about reading a book?

You do know that the Junta soon after the coup purged many bookstores and started banning certain material right? They even want to eradicate certain parts of their history too.

You will wait till hell freezes over before a farang posts he's had his civil liberties infringed and the junta starts preventing them from gathering in groups of 5 or more, why? Because they cannot afford this impact as it will drive even more foreign tourists away.

The junta have NO WAY of telling a tourist and an expat who lives here, but the TAT minister did try and go down the wristband routes, so this is why no farang has been hassled or detained, it's a straw man argument if ever there was one intimating that you or any other farang can still do what they want. It's NOT about us mate, I specifically said your wife as she's Thai, the junta are not interested in farangs.

All one needs to do is read all the Thai newspapers and there's always a comment or story about rights being taken away.

But ask your wife if she would wear a hunger games t-shirt and carry a book called 1984 and if she tells you hell no, ask her why. Mine wouldn't I tried to get her to do it for a dare, she said you're crazy, I go to jail darling!! I said I know!! She didn't find that funny at all!!

I disagree with your comment about not holding elections too, as this is what Prayuth promised, he said he wouldn't stay in power long, now there's talk of 2 more years, but come on seajae, for a long time resident of the country you and many others cannot bring yourselves around to the concept that everything is smoke and mirrors and the reason the junta have to be in power seems only apparent to those who dislike them.

Why is that?

[Manbing]

I can't speak for "Bannum" but the circumstances surrounding the military takeover are actually very simply described.

An elected government, faced with strong extra parliamentary opposition called an election in a totally constitutional manner.

Said extra parliamentary opposition, aware that they could not muster a majority trashed the election through street thuggery. The military stood by and allowed the election to be trashed, and then used the resulting impasse as their excuse to seize power.

It was carefully planned.

Those were the circumstances surrounding the military takeover.

'then used the resulting impasse...'

Political stalemate - is an impasse

We might disagree on the origins but share a similar view about the circumstances.

Manbing your are away with the fairies mate.

Anything to comment other than insulting posters?

Try reasoned debate friend, you are welcome to your opinion as am I.

[MaeJoMTB]

I am curious about how you would articulate the circumstances surrounding the military takeover.

As most of us live in Thailand we are unable to articulate the circumstances around the change in government due to oppression and censorship.

Even if we did not live in Thailand, there is nothing we could articulate on this forum due to censorship.

Edited July 12, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Baerboxer]

I can't speak for "Bannum" but the circumstances surrounding the military takeover are actually very simply described.

An elected government, faced with strong extra parliamentary opposition called an election in a totally constitutional manner.

Said extra parliamentary opposition, aware that they could not muster a majority trashed the election through street thuggery. The military stood by and allowed the election to be trashed, and then used the resulting impasse as their excuse to seize power.

It was carefully planned.

Those were the circumstances surrounding the military takeover.

Not a bad summary. You missed out the bit about an elected government receiving salaries, being owned and dictated to by a criminal fugitive to do his bidding; and the elected government doing little to prevent or capture those responsible for daily shooting, bombings and murders on their opponents, whilst vowing to protect their own militia. Also, the fact the RTP, whose job it actually is to enforce the law and maintain order, did nothing, absolutely nothing, to safeguard the election. It was their job not the military's.

I'm sure you are right - both sides planned carefully.

Why did the Military deploy on the streets of Bangkok again? OH yeah, so they'd be in position for staging a coup, that's it

You are correct in that it is the RTP's job to enforce Law and order, and they failed.. What is the function of the Army again?

I'm sure that a state of emergency was also declared, which if I'm not mistaken, also allowed the Army to carry out Internal Security roles, you know, something similar to what the Police failed to do. They too stood by and allowed the elections to be disrupted in the Capital.

daily shootings, bombings and murders? Hyperbole much? As much as any death was a tragedy, over the 8 month period, there were in fact less than 1 political death a day, it works out roughly 0.17 deaths per day, so again you're dramatizing the situation and exaggerating the deaths part. Even the "daily attacks", as they were not daily either.

You choose to miss the salient fact. The PTP government were openly being dictated too, paid a salary by, and obeyed a convicted criminal fugitive. They'd given up the initial lies about his not being involved after so many, including senior police, were caught nipping off to meet him.

That's right, the deaths of those who dare speak against a universal amnesty for criminals being cheated aren't important, a mere statistic. So you support the tactic of daily, I note daily as widely reported at the time, shooting, and bombings some of which resulted in deaths and injury?

Disappointed to see you claim the daily attacks may have been exaggerated at the time, and didn't happen every single day. That makes them alright then does it?

We all know the bigger picture, why the coup was really necessary; as we all know the lengths the Shins were going to trying desperately to cling to power. Let's not pretend the RTP failed - they never even tried, just like in 2010. Now, who do you think gave that order?

[Fat Haggis]

Nice attempt at trying to twist my words, and not for the first time I've told you specifically that I detest any form of violence so don't keep making the very wrong assumption I supported not agreed with the acts of violence directed towards the protestors.

You did attempt to sensationalise their deaths by stating quite clearly they were a daily occurrence, they were not, and to be blunt, as tragic as their deaths and needless ones at that don't even register as a significant percentage of the overall population nor even the amount of protestors that was claimed to have been on the streets. I didn't say the attacks were exaggerated I clearly said YOU were exaggerating them by saying there was daily attacks and daily deaths and you know full well that wasn't the case.

I have also stated many many many times that the PTP had to go, and many many many times that I agreed with the original protests up till the point they became more radical, and started blocking the polling stations, I also have stated many many many times that having Suthep champion an anti corruption movement was like having Gary Glitter hold anti paedophile seminars!!

I agree with certain parts of your posts, but let's also focus on the military who were better armed who also failed to stop the "almost" daily attacks, I know full well the RTP were not doing anything, but from what I seen, neither were the army so I wouldn't be congratulating them on a job well done, how many VCPs and ECPs did they erect and man, 24/7 throughout Bangkok again?

I also don't ever wish to see any sort off repeat of the Thais military clampdown, or a repeat of the attacks of 2014, violence solves nothing, I have zero love for thaksin or his corrupt party, I doubt you will ever find a single post where I thought they were the best party to lead a country, I have always advocated that the best way to have removed them was via the ballot box, especially as the claims by many many TVF posters and PDRC people, the PTP were a spent force and no longer held a majority, and yet Abhisit still bottled it.

The coup was inevitable as it a spur of the moment decision, no I don't believe so, as a former military man, this was carefully planned all the way down to the last detail.

For me, the catalyst was Suthep going off the rails near the end making his threats about seizing control and basically telling Prayuth, you're either with us or against us, and Prayuth had no choice but to prevent Suthep from escalating the status quo, into an all out free for all where many more protester on both sides would have been killed, the Reds were baiting, as was Suthep, between them they forced the Generals hand, the revelations by Suthep about collusion didn't surprise anyone, Prayuth hated Thaksin just as much.

I don't like the Junta, I don't fall for their crap, I can see how they're doing their best to manipulate the current situation to their advantage, they are stalling for time, and the longer they stay in control, the more the people care less, classic apathy.

I'd rather see the Army do the job they're trained for, that's not running a country, I'd rather see them held to account for their constant interfering of Thai politics, I'd rather see them held to the same account that they are subjecting the Thai people to. NOBODY should be above the law, but we know that's not the case, and never will be in Thailand as long as the army have that powebase.

[djjamie]

Ask your wife and kids to wear a hunger games t-shirt. Armed with a book called 1984 whilst eating a sandwich in Siam Paragon and let us know what they thought, and then come back and paint the rosy picture that it's all lies about the junta clampdown.

I have the utmost respect for you my friend as you know after our PM messengers, BUT,

I wore normal clothes, with my normal family wearing the same normal clothes to a normal event in Khon Kaen only to be abused and intimidated by abnormal people.

The difference is one entity suggested they were democratic (which is the one that intimidated us for wanting to listen to people freely speak) while the other never suggested they were.

For you to denounce a govt as undemocratic when that never said they were while defending an undemocratic govt that have always purported to be democratic is hypocritical my dear friend.

I can only state this due to the weather delay at the Wimbledon mens final!

Have a lovely evening my friend.

[Linky]

Why should you be able to listen to someone freely speak when the others are not allowed to freely speak.

[JAG]

Ask your wife and kids to wear a hunger games t-shirt. Armed with a book called 1984 whilst eating a sandwich in Siam Paragon and let us know what they thought, and then come back and paint the rosy picture that it's all lies about the junta clampdown.

mate, this answer is pathetic, thought you had more sense that this type of crap. Like you I served in the forces and I dont know about the pommie army but our senior officers at least had more intelligence than most politicians. Using pretty pathetic statements like this is beneath your usual standard, at least come up with something rational, not being able to hold protests and trying to cause conflicts among the populace is not an excuse to bag it nor is having to wait till next year to vote but then again when you dont have anything else to bitch about people will grasp at anything they can to voice their personal bias. Still waiting for anyone to point out what they can no longer do that the general is top dog that they could before he got there apart from being totally corrupt/stealing whatever they can and not having to obey the law, seems these are things a lot of those upset are really p*ssed about.

The Australian people can select, be governed by and can eject , by voting, their government. The British people can can select, be governed by and can eject , by voting, their government. The Thai people could, under their constitution, do the same. The coup put a stop to that . They are now governed by one man, who appointed himself on the basis of commanding the army. He may or may not allow some sort of elections some time. Meanwhile a whole tranche of fundamental freedoms, guaranteed by the constitution he tore up, have been removed

That is the difference. I don't think it could be any clearer.

[MW72]

Manbing, if you're going to use Iraq and Afghanistan as comparisons, try getting your facts right first, neither were coups, but full on Invasions, to remove the Bath Party and the Taliban respectvely.

Saddam Hussain himself rose to power through a coup, which was against the US Sponsored Government at that time,and the Taliban, with the backing of the ISI rose to power, going against the former soviet backed Mujihadeen, who were however US sponsored during the Soviet Occupation. Post The Afghan Government was Soviet Sponsored.

So neither leaders at the time were ousted by any coup of any kind.

Not to mention that in both of these countries the former totalitarian regimes have since been replaced by democratic regimes. Far from perfect I might add. The invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan were a mess with no thought been given for the aftermaths but they are so different from the situation in Thailand that it would be ridiculous to even try to compare them.

[MW72]

Before starting yet another bout of "Democracy" in Thailand get them educated first.

Would you agree that when most western countries became democratic, the majority of the populous were far from educated? Why do I keep seeing posts suggesting that Thais are not educated enough for democracy when in most western nations the majority of the population were illiterate when democracy first evolved.

For anyone with opinions.

Coup is a flawed democracy.

Democracy without regarding rights and wishes of others is nothing but rule of mob or Anarchy.

I have been waiting for this Coup for 6 months before it took place.

I don't think my Human Rights are abused or trampled on by what you call "Hunta".

When it so happens that present Leaders put their foot in the mouth - I remind myself of the others before them.

When the present Leaders do some things I disagree with - I remind myself of the others before them.

At least I can go where I want, I can drive where I want and be not afraid.

Only after you have some kind of Law and Order you can start demanding it to be the same for all.

For this kind of Democracy Thailand is clearly not ready.

For this kind of Democracy there are many prerequisites Thais must learn first.

One of these prerequisites is for your Academics be academicians not only in name, title and salary.

When you remind yourself of the others before just remember that the Thai public could vote them out if they wished. They can't do that with this mob. They can't take to the street to protest about it and they can't make their feeling known in the media for fear of retribution.

You can drive from one end of the country to the other but there is more to freedom than that.

[phantomfiddler]

A thai scholar,a university professor to boot, said that the melting of the polar icecaps would not affect Thailand because we were a long way away !! One has to accept the possibility that many of these so called academics have the mental capacity of a european 5 year-old, and haven,t a clue what they are talking about. Sad but true

[roamer]

Coups do not weaken Democracy. They happen when it is weak! Or when it is a pseudo-Democracy.

You actually wrote that ?

I argue with fools but draw the line at complete idiots.

[tbthailand]

For anyone with opinions.

Coup is a flawed democracy.

Democracy without regarding rights and wishes of others is nothing but rule of mob or Anarchy.

I have been waiting for this Coup for 6 months before it took place.

I don't think my Human Rights are abused or trampled on by what you call "Hunta".

When it so happens that present Leaders put their foot in the mouth - I remind myself of the others before them.

When the present Leaders do some things I disagree with - I remind myself of the others before them.

At least I can go where I want, I can drive where I want and be not afraid.

Only after you have some kind of Law and Order you can start demanding it to be the same for all.

For this kind of Democracy Thailand is clearly not ready.

For this kind of Democracy there are many prerequisites Thais must learn first.

One of these prerequisites is for your Academics be academicians not only in name, title and salary.

you poor lost soul....

The academic is not from Thailand, but from Australia. Ooops.

"you" don't think your human rights are being abused, but they are... it may not bother you, but that is a different story.

At least you can go/drive where you want, ... seriously, could you not do that before the PDRC protests or before the "intervention"? Seriously?

Only after you have law and order

oh, wow, stop me.... law and order under this group of generals? wow.... that brings me back to "poor lost soul"....

as for Thailand not being ready for democracy, well that is just the same demeaning trash that the anti-democrats spit out last year prior to their A-team coming to their sorry-a$$ rescue.... Thailand and the Thai people are perfectly ready for democracy... The generals and their extraordinarily wealthy allies are the ones who are not ready for democracy...

[mikemac]

For anyone with opinions.

Coup is a flawed democracy.

Democracy without regarding rights and wishes of others is nothing but rule of mob or Anarchy.

I have been waiting for this Coup for 6 months before it took place.

I don't think my Human Rights are abused or trampled on by what you call "Hunta".

When it so happens that present Leaders put their foot in the mouth - I remind myself of the others before them.

When the present Leaders do some things I disagree with - I remind myself of the others before them.

At least I can go where I want, I can drive where I want and be not afraid.

Only after you have some kind of Law and Order you can start demanding it to be the same for all.

For this kind of Democracy Thailand is clearly not ready.

For this kind of Democracy there are many prerequisites Thais must learn first.

One of these prerequisites is for your Academics be academicians not only in name, title and salary.

you poor lost soul....

The academic is not from Thailand, but from Australia. Ooops.

"you" don't think your human rights are being abused, but they are... it may not bother you, but that is a different story.

At least you can go/drive where you want, ... seriously, could you not do that before the PDRC protests or before the "intervention"? Seriously?

Only after you have law and order

oh, wow, stop me.... law and order under this group of generals? wow.... that brings me back to "poor lost soul"....

as for Thailand not being ready for democracy, well that is just the same demeaning trash that the anti-democrats spit out last year prior to their A-team coming to their sorry-<deleted> rescue.... Thailand and the Thai people are perfectly ready for democracy... The generals and their extraordinarily wealthy allies are the ones who are not ready for democracy...

...................."extraordinarily wealthy allies".................. ?????? What, like the guy at #10, is he included in the gang of extraordinarily wealthy allies ?

................................"At least I can go where I want, I can drive where I want and be not afraid."..................................

I think what ABCer was getting at was the fact that when the PTP were in power the redshirts were running riot killing people on the streets and that seems to have stopped since the Military took over.

If they have done one good thing since the coup happened that was it, and it was worth it.

[Fat Haggis]

Killing on the streets Mike? You make it sound like it was a country wide free for all, like comparing Thailand to Iraq or Syria?

Perspective .There was sporadic violence aimed towards protestors in mainly isolated areas within Bangkok. apart from the disgusting incident in Trat, where else was the killing happening in the streets mate?

Oh I get it, you were talking about the Deep South again o don't seem to have been able to find the Junta " the country is safe, there is no more violence" memo anywhere around, in the first 6 months of 2015, there has been double figure fatalities down there.

You cannot say the country is peaceful and stable but omit the insurgency down in the South, regardless of the reasons for it. It's still very much part of the country, and the violence there should be included in any blanket statement by the Junta.

[lildragon]

I love the melodramatic description of the protests, yes some people were very unfortunately killed by armed nutters (weren't a few reds killed too?) but if you listen to some of the posts on here you'd think there was absolute chaos on the streets. I live right by Victory Monument and Din Daeng where it DID kick off a few times over the months and it resembled nothing like the streets of Baghdad. Also the 'civil war' line is absolute poppy cock. It was never going to happen.

Post all the hyperbole you want. That coup was in the planning ever since the result of the last election. Do you think any of the higher ups in the PDRC and army gave a damn of people died? They didn't, they just cared about the power snatch.

[mikemac]

Killing on the streets Mike? You make it sound like it was a country wide free for all, like comparing Thailand to Iraq or Syria?

Perspective .There was sporadic violence aimed towards protestors in mainly isolated areas within Bangkok. apart from the disgusting incident in Trat, where else was the killing happening in the streets mate?

Oh I get it, you were talking about the Deep South again o don't seem to have been able to find the Junta " the country is safe, there is no more violence" memo anywhere around, in the first 6 months of 2015, there has been double figure fatalities down there.

You cannot say the country is peaceful and stable but omit the insurgency down in the South, regardless of the reasons for it. It's still very much part of the country, and the violence there should be included in any blanket statement by the Junta.

I don't want to get into an argument with you Fatty, but this is not something that can be smoothed out and made to look "not so bad".

According to the BBC website page I looked at dated 15th May 2014 there had been 27 people killed and hundreds wounded.

That may be sporadic to some but to me it is 27 dead and hundreds wounded.

And no, I was not talking about the deep south but that situation will be happening no matter who is in power. I referred to the redshirts when I mentioned the killings on the streets, and forgot to add Bangkok, which is where most of the shootings and bombings occurred.

Anyway, like you like to tell us, nothing we say on this forum is going to have any effect on what happens in Thailand.

[bkk75]

Come on.

Why the academia doesn't tell like it really is? Thailand is not ready for democracy until they grow up as a nation. They are like preschoolers on a yard with only one swing and all fighting to get onto that swing.

Don't blame the military for acting like adults and breaking up the fights.

Blame yourselves and the easy way people are manipulated into voting one way or another. Or not having proper check and balance to settle things like mature adults.

[tbthailand]

I love the melodramatic description of the protests, yes some people were very unfortunately killed by armed nutters (weren't a few reds killed too?) but if you listen to some of the posts on here you'd think there was absolute chaos on the streets. I live right by Victory Monument and Din Daeng where it DID kick off a few times over the months and it resembled nothing like the streets of Baghdad. Also the 'civil war' line is absolute poppy cock. It was never going to happen.

Post all the hyperbole you want. That coup was in the planning ever since the result of the last election. Do you think any of the higher ups in the PDRC and army gave a damn of people died? They didn't, they just cared about the power snatch.

There were protesters who were killed, there were police who were killed, there were red shirts shot ...

All the violence is stupid.

But there was, over a 6 month period, 1/3 the number of deaths compared to 2 months in 2010 - nearly 1/10th the violence, let's say, under the Yingluck government compared to the Abhisit government.

Think about that...

I know some people will immediately blame it on the red shirts, but that would be wrong. The issue in 2014 is that the military was not involved in the shooting... well, except for a small number who perennially protest with the yellow shirts, but you get the point.

If the military is involved in "security operations" the violence is higher and there are more casualties. That is not an opinion, that is a historical fact.

[tbthailand]

Come on. Why the academia doesn't tell like it really is? Thailand is not ready for democracy until they grow up as a nation. They are like preschoolers on a yard with only one swing and all fighting to get onto that swing. Don't blame the military for acting like adults and breaking up the fights. Blame yourselves and the easy way people are manipulated into voting one way or another. Or not having proper check and balance to settle things like mature adults.

"Thailand" is ready for democracy. The wealthy Thais and the Generals are the ones who don't want democracy.

[tbthailand]

For anyone with opinions.

Coup is a flawed democracy.

Democracy without regarding rights and wishes of others is nothing but rule of mob or Anarchy.

I have been waiting for this Coup for 6 months before it took place.

I don't think my Human Rights are abused or trampled on by what you call "Hunta".

When it so happens that present Leaders put their foot in the mouth - I remind myself of the others before them.

When the present Leaders do some things I disagree with - I remind myself of the others before them.

At least I can go where I want, I can drive where I want and be not afraid.

Only after you have some kind of Law and Order you can start demanding it to be the same for all.

For this kind of Democracy Thailand is clearly not ready.

For this kind of Democracy there are many prerequisites Thais must learn first.

One of these prerequisites is for your Academics be academicians not only in name, title and salary.

you poor lost soul....

The academic is not from Thailand, but from Australia. Ooops.

"you" don't think your human rights are being abused, but they are... it may not bother you, but that is a different story.

At least you can go/drive where you want, ... seriously, could you not do that before the PDRC protests or before the "intervention"? Seriously?

Only after you have law and order

oh, wow, stop me.... law and order under this group of generals? wow.... that brings me back to "poor lost soul"....

as for Thailand not being ready for democracy, well that is just the same demeaning trash that the anti-democrats spit out last year prior to their A-team coming to their sorry-<deleted> rescue.... Thailand and the Thai people are perfectly ready for democracy... The generals and their extraordinarily wealthy allies are the ones who are not ready for democracy...

...................."extraordinarily wealthy allies".................. ?????? What, like the guy at #10, is he included in the gang of extraordinarily wealthy allies ?

................................"At least I can go where I want, I can drive where I want and be not afraid."..................................

I think what ABCer was getting at was the fact that when the PTP were in power the redshirts were running riot killing people on the streets and that seems to have stopped since the Military took over.

If they have done one good thing since the coup happened that was it, and it was worth it.

yep, old squarehead is right there at the bottom of the first page.

it's a perfect list... perfect because if those 50 Thai citizens wanted democracy, and I mean a real democracy, not the turd coming down the establishment's bowels, ... if those 50 people really wanted democracy, then we would have it tomorrow.

Hence, we can all see the source of Thailand's "democracy trap".

It's darn simple to understand.

[metisdead]

Discussion of Iraq and Afghanistan is not related to this topic, some posts and replies have been removed.

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand is a military run country with occasional outbreaks of democracy. If the army and their backers don't like what is going on, they intervene. Very regularly.