MROLL320 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Got these plans and quote from a Chon Buri based builder for our bang Saray house. Please see attached pdf files. I'm new to Thai building or any building really! So I would appreciate any help, input or advice.... Thanks Martyn Floor Plan June 28.pdf Floor Plan June 28 Roof.pdf Quotation House June 28.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeijoshinCool Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well, the "plans" are ridiculously simple, unprofessional, and incomplete, and the payment schedule offers the builder the advantage. Only holding back 90,000 baht is a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtramsbottom Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 How do you get in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 How do you get in ? Or more to the point: who gets to keep the house??? the most important question of all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'd want detail on the pricing. That way if during construction I wanted an upgrade I'd know how much I was paying for what was spec'd. BTW, what IS spec'd? Does it have kitchen cabinets and if so, exactly what, for instance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well, the "plans" are ridiculously simple, unprofessional, and incomplete, and the payment schedule offers the builder the advantage. Only holding back 90,000 baht is a recipe for disaster. I agree - that payment plan definitely only works in the builder's favor. As for the price, there's some line items there that really stand out.. e.g. the multi-point water heater + 10-15K worth of fittings that somehow adds up to 60K. And then, he pays for 2 more water heaters as well? At these prices, the OP might want to consider solar hot water instead. Another one is 60K Baht for the architect. I'd expect to pay more in the 10-12K Baht/sqm range based on the spec I'm seeing, plus a little for the tiled terrace, carpark and AC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 one major point: you have planned aircon in the bedrooms and sooner or later you will install a unit in the living room. but even without a/c i consider building a home with outside walls of qcon blocks 7.5cm thickness a "crime". check with the builder for the price difference having 20cm thick blocks. another thing i noticed is the typical Thai "oddness" having doors to bathrooms opening to the inside and their placement which, in your case, reduce the usable area by ~30%. last not least i agree with other posters that the floor plan should show a lot more details and the lack of specifications in the quotation is totally in the builder's favour. for a home this size/price i'd expect a minimum of two (not necessarily individually priced) but itemised pages with descriptions of materials and fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereal Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 As mentioned, I don't see a way to get in the house. Why do you want 4 bathrooms? One master ensuite and one more full bathroom is all you need. These plans look like they were drawn by a high school kid taking a design course. 60,000 Baht for bathroom fixtures is insane. I also think 400B sq/m for floor tile in insane. Does this price include the land? It looks like you have to be outside on the terrace to get into bedrooms 2 and 3. It looks like the main terrace is bigger than the living room. Why? Dude, save yourself the headaches and hassles and shop around for a house that is already built. Preferably built by a farang who knew what they were doing. I have a friend who just sold his house in Phuket for 3 million Baht that blows that place away. They are out there. This place is going to drive you nuts building it. There's 12 roof lines on it, that's nuts! I worked as a site supervisor for a house building company in Canada for a few years. I know the house building game fairly well. That place looks like problems and headaches from day one until you sign yourself into the nuthouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 As mentioned, I don't see a way to get in the house. Why do you want 4 bathrooms? One master ensuite and one more full bathroom is all you need. These plans look like they were drawn by a high school kid taking a design course. 60,000 Baht for bathroom fixtures is insane. I also think 400B sq/m for floor tile in insane. Does this price include the land? It looks like you have to be outside on the terrace to get into bedrooms 2 and 3. It looks like the main terrace is bigger than the living room. Why? Dude, save yourself the headaches and hassles and shop around for a house that is already built. Preferably built by a farang who knew what they were doing. I have a friend who just sold his house in Phuket for 3 million Baht that blows that place away. They are out there. This place is going to drive you nuts building it. There's 12 roof lines on it, that's nuts! I worked as a site supervisor for a house building company in Canada for a few years. I know the house building game fairly well. That place looks like problems and headaches from day one until you sign yourself into the nuthouse. i fully agree with your posting except for the "insane" 60k Baht for bathroom fixtures because for them sky is the limit as far as prices are concerned. of course it also depends on the definition of "fixtures". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If you are new to the building trade you really should start from a different point, perhaps get several different quotes from several builders and try to bring yourself up to speed on the issues before you commit, this thread is a good start in that respect. Maybe also spend some time on the internet trying to discover the pitfalls/best practice when building in Thailand. One important aspect that doesn't seem to have been covered is that of insulation, vent, air intakes (and sizes), materials used and roof design are all key aspects of that subject,. Also be warned, Thai builders for the most part will build what they know, not what the plans say so don't assume anything, it therefore follows that you need some sort of project management support to keep a watchful eye over all aspects whilst construction is underway and this can't be the builder or the architect. We managed a house construction project here some years ago and it was nightmarish although the cost was far cheaper than your quote, perhaps think about agreeing a labour cost and then source and pay for materials yourself, with some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks for the input fellas... I will read again this evening and fully digest what you have all contributed. Quick points, the plan is rough and will go to an architect when finalised. Just put together for quote purposes. This is a Farrang who put this together. The 3 bedrooms all with bathrooms is because we intend having friends and relatives staying for quite a while or maybe renting out the rooms. Please don't take the plans as gospel to the finite detail, like I said it was to obtain quotes... On that, I've had 2 Thai builders quote about 2.5 million, but what was included and what wasn't is anybodies guess!? We own the land and are only using 600 sqm, 400sqm for sale. Would still consider offers on the whole lot and buy built.. It's a lovely location in bang Saray village, just 300m to beach. Does anybody have any orecommendations for builders working in the aera (bang Saray, satanic, Chon Buri etc) I could get quotes from? Like I said, I'll read again and digest your thoughts... Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks for the input fellas... I will read again this evening and fully digest what you have all contributed. Quick points, the plan is rough and will go to an architect when finalised. Just put together for quote purposes. This is a Farrang who put this together. The 3 bedrooms all with bathrooms is because we intend having friends and relatives staying for quite a while or maybe renting out the rooms. Please don't take the plans as gospel to the finite detail, like I said it was to obtain quotes... On that, I've had 2 Thai builders quote about 2.5 million, but what was included and what wasn't is anybodies guess!? We own the land and are only using 600 sqm, 400sqm for sale. Would still consider offers on the whole lot and buy built.. It's a lovely location in bang Saray village, just 300m to beach. Does anybody have any orecommendations for builders working in the aera (bang Saray, satanic, Chon Buri etc) I could get quotes from? Like I said, I'll read again and digest your thoughts... Thanks for the input. I've never had any dealing with farang builders, but I've read a few threads here.. you may want to do some searching... That said, at this stage of the game you really only need to ask one question: How much per sqm? A good builder will usually be able to offer you 2 or 3 different prices per sqm, based on different grades of finish. If that's the only at's the only question you ask, they'll understand it's the one they have to get right in order to get your business. After you got the right price, you can then get into more detail... As a basic guide, using low end finishing materials should cost around 10-12K/sqm. Mid-end materials around 15-18K, high end materials 20K up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachproperty Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) The above posts all make vaiid points.... I can only give you my perspective after finishing a 360 sq meter place with 350 sq meter of tile decking (which includes a roof deck with roof and outdoor kitchen), double walls with insulation, double pane 12 mm windows, 5 buit in kitchens and 9 bathrooms......Cost 4 million Baht (bid was initially for 3.2 million baht but changes and additions cost went up to 4 million Baht.) Obviously my first thought is you should get other bids! (3.1 million baht is WAY too high) Attached are photos of finished product built Edited July 13, 2015 by beachproperty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 http://home.by.me/en/project/mroll320/U-shape-3-bathroom-pool-12th-july This may help, with the general design... It seems that I'm being charged 18000 baht per sqm, but including terrace etc in that so maybe 16000? What grade does the spec suggest? Mid level? One reply says good budget for tiles, bathroom fixtures etc... Maybe I should ask if I get the money back if I buy cheaper? A lot to take in... Thanks for the help. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Wow, can I have your builders number please mate! Impressive property, good pice... Where in the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachproperty Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's in the City of Rayong. Built as a rental project for my wife and family (for when I pass). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fang37 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Quality mats. No guarantee unless you purchase them yourself. When builder purchases, no quality control. Price/sqm * difficult to calculate. Why? Measurement * include overhang or exterior wall only. Ours - in the north - quality throughout was the goal - B13k-B14k excluding land/fencing) For me, I strove for quality mats & workmanship. Mats - easy.Workmanship - far more challenging The other forum (TD) has numerous threads on home construction in LOS. Things to include - QCon bricks - bigger the better - heat & noise problems reduced. Insulation - spend up. Buy quality roof tiles. Termite prevention - same (I have just completed a bulld) An additional "must have" - a lot of luck! Am I satisfied? 90+% - we all have headaches as quality is inferior to western standards. DID NOT READ YOUR MOST RECENT POST ie RENTAL & FAMILY HOME. Edited July 13, 2015 by fang37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Well, the "plans" are ridiculously simple, unprofessional, and incomplete, and the payment schedule offers the builder the advantage. Only holding back 90,000 baht is a recipe for disaster. The plans are simple and put together for quote purposes, from a simple concept. Full plans will be done by a proper architect. I had several quotes from thai builders just based on a few pictures! I could n`t get any idea on what was included and what was n`t!? hence trying with simple plans. The payment structure is there proposal and I would be negotiating better deal...Do you have a typical fair example I should propose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 How do you get in ? through the rear door shown near the kitchen or the 1.8 x 2.2m front door or 2 sets of french doors (possibly single bi-fold)..... ?? Thanks for the input.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 I've never had any dealing with farang builders, but I've read a few threads here.. you may want to do some searching... The contact is a french , guy with good english. I have been advise to try and get english speaking because communicating through the Mrs is a receipe for disaster That said, at this stage of the game you really only need to ask one question: How much per sqm? A good builder will usually be able to offer you 2 or 3 different prices per sqm, based on different grades of finish. If that's the only at's the only question you ask, they'll understand it's the one they have to get right in order to get your business. After you got the right price, you can then get into more detail... ..............I`ve read this many times, with many ideas on what is the right amount? The price works out about 16000 baht/sqm with a good allowance for fixtures in the bathrooms for tiles etc..etc Maybe I should by my own fixtures? or ask for a refund on unspent budget? As a basic guide, using low end finishing materials should cost around 10-12K/sqm. Mid-end materials around 15-18K, high end materials 20K up. I`ve seem quotes of 8k to 25k+ but with no clarification of what to expect from each level of spec? what level is the quote shown? mid? thanks for the input.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 As mentioned, I don't see a way to get in the house. Why do you want 4 bathrooms? One master ensuite and one more full bathroom is all you need. These plans look like they were drawn by a high school kid taking a design course. 60,000 Baht for bathroom fixtures is insane. I also think 400B sq/m for floor tile in insane. Does this price include the land? It looks like you have to be outside on the terrace to get into bedrooms 2 and 3. It looks like the main terrace is bigger than the living room. Why? Dude, save yourself the headaches and hassles and shop around for a house that is already built. Preferably built by a farang who knew what they were doing. I have a friend who just sold his house in Phuket for 3 million Baht that blows that place away. They are out there. This place is going to drive you nuts building it. There's 12 roof lines on it, that's nuts! I worked as a site supervisor for a house building company in Canada for a few years. I know the house building game fairly well. That place looks like problems and headaches from day one until you sign yourself into the nuthouse. 60k for master suite, which includes bath and 40k for other 2. what budget is normal for decent spec? Maybe I should buy my own fixtures and fittings? Floor and wall tiles etc? getting the quote for shell and installation? I`ve seen houses with terraces larger than the whole house, infact my UK house has a similar size ratio? I don`t think is too far out? anyway this can be changed and like most things and has only been produced so I can gather like for like quotes. I don`t want an "off the peg" house and Ive got some of the books you can choose from...nothing in there for me. My Mrs had one built like this a few years back, no patio, no storage, badly laid out and loads of wasted space. Its not for me. The plans are just a concept for a house based on a few pics and ideas. I wanted a separate master bedroom, walk in , bathroom with own terrance. The other 2 have ensuite because they will possibly have farrang daughter and husband staying long term or rented out in high season etc.... I wanted the large living aera open to the terrace and every bedroom to have a view of the pool with its own small terrace. The living area also had to accomodate a projector and remote electric screen setup. Anyway, thanks for the input.... Please don`t get up hung up on the design to much it will be changed and will be done properly by an architect. Its the pricing and spec and the ability to obtain quotes thats important right now. Does anybody have a recommended builder I could willing to do the job I can get alternative quotes from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert24 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Here's what I would recommend based on a few building projects completed in Thailand: - buy all material yourself - ask builder to give you quote on labour only - payment schedule: split the payment evenly and keep 10%+ for completion and only pay this when you are happy with everything. Simple reason for buying material yourself is because it is a lot cheaper, you can buy exactly what you want, the right quality. All builders will try to make a fortune on the material. I personally reckon roughly that you can build a single story house for half of this price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I would take a look again at the layout, a number of things pop out considering you are spending over 2 million baht for this, excluding land! 1 - The ratio of bed space to living space is not great, one small central room with everything coming off it starts to become a transient environment, try to somehow separate a kitchen/ dining area with the wc off that and the living room somewhat separated from this. If an open plan is what you're after, then fine, but look at laying it out including the furniture and consider the limited wallspace you'll have in the living room when most walls will have windows/ doors or kitchen units. At the moment it just looks like a big hallway. 2 - The bedrooms all having en-suite is not necessary unless you're planning on having a lot of guests, and if that doesn't work out it's somewhat of a waste. I assume you're going for outside entries for a reason, but it's a security issue. 3 - For a relatively small house the roof is unnecessarily complicated and could be easier/ cheaper to build with less hip junctions. 3 - The payment seems excessive overall, and it is structured to suit the builder running off with a full wallet. Re structure the payments so he will be encouraged to finish the job. 1.1 million for the initial groundworks and structure is unreasonable. Think this one over, give it some time to understand what you really want and how much it should cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 I would take a look again at the layout, a number of things pop out considering you are spending over 2 million baht for this, excluding land! 1 - The ratio of bed space to living space is not great, one small central room with everything coming off it starts to become a transient environment, try to somehow separate a kitchen/ dining area with the wc off that and the living room somewhat separated from this. If an open plan is what you're after, then fine, but look at laying it out including the furniture and consider the limited wallspace you'll have in the living room when most walls will have windows/ doors or kitchen units. At the moment it just looks like a big hallway. 2 - The bedrooms all having en-suite is not necessary unless you're planning on having a lot of guests, and if that doesn't work out it's somewhat of a waste. I assume you're going for outside entries for a reason, but it's a security issue. 3 - For a relatively small house the roof is unnecessarily complicated and could be easier/ cheaper to build with less hip junctions. 3 - The payment seems excessive overall, and it is structured to suit the builder running off with a full wallet. Re structure the payments so he will be encouraged to finish the job. 1.1 million for the initial groundworks and structure is unreasonable. Think this one over, give it some time to understand what you really want and how much it should cost. 1.The small (?) central living space is supposed to light and airy and have good flow through for ventilation. There is one big wall I require for the projector set up. I wil be considering the outside terrace as living space most of the year. The size is bigger than most 1 bedroom condo and Iv` seen many houses with vast unused and unfilled areas, I did n`t want this... I wanted more a large open apartment feel, open to the garden.... 2. yes exactly that....I have all en suite for that reason, I have a daughter and husband and many family and friends who would want to stay medium /long term. Also posibility of holiday lets in high season. Any outside entry is a security issue? I want each room to hae its own patio aera with french doors overlooking the pool. 3. 100% agree! stupid a much simpler arrangement would be cheaper and better. I also want more over hang on outside kitchen, master bedroom and main terrace. 4. I will be proposing a less biased set up for payment when I have a settled design and price. design is personal preference based on your priorities and budget, I appreciate the advice.... thanks for the input.... Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I wil be considering the outside terrace as living space most of the year. you mean you are not living in Thailand but in a country with a moderate and acceptable comfortable climate Martyn? which country... if i may ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The bedrooms all having en-suite is not necessary a room without an en-suite bathroom should not be called "bedroom" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MROLL320 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I wil be considering the outside terrace as living space most of the year. you mean you are not living in Thailand but in a country with a moderate and acceptable comfortable climate Martyn? which country... if i may ask? The UK, currently in a heatwave of over 25° for more than a week! And yes i can guess what your going to say... We have planted trees already for shade etc and plan for a pool. And appreciate the need for good design to maximise the use of the space outside. Thanks Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) 2 - The bedrooms all having en-suite is not necessary unless you're planning on having a lot of guests, and if that doesn't work out it's somewhat of a waste. I assume you're going for outside entries for a reason, but it's a security issue. On this I have to disagree - in my latest house we gave all bedrooms an ensuite, and we, our children and our guests have certainly never regretted it. If you keep them small (4-6sqm is enough, depending on shape) the overall cost added to the build really isn't that much. For an extra 80-100K each in a multi-million-Baht house, it's well worth it, IMHO. Edited July 15, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The bedrooms all having en-suite is not necessary a room without an en-suite bathroom should not be called "bedroom" I'm delighted you have your own definition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 2 - The bedrooms all having en-suite is not necessary unless you're planning on having a lot of guests, and if that doesn't work out it's somewhat of a waste. I assume you're going for outside entries for a reason, but it's a security issue. On this I have to disagree - in my latest house we gave all bedrooms an ensuite, and we, our children and our guests have certainly never regretted it. If you keep them small (4-6sqm is enough, depending on shape) the overall cost added to the build really isn't that much. For an extra 80-100K each in a multi-million-Baht house, it's well worth it, IMHO. I suggested it 'wasn't necessary, unless it was intended'........ One thing that's apparent is that this is more of a guest house/ holiday home than a home in 'traditional' sense, changes the parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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