Farming In Northeast Thailand

[dugdig]

RC,

I googled for 'irrigation methods' and got:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/S8684E/s8684e00.htm#Contents

It seems pretty good but as you know there is a ton of stuff out on the net!

But briefly drip irrigation is the most expensive to set up but is the most efficient in using water and pumping energy. Sprinklers are the next most efficient in using water. They require more pumping energy than drip because you have to pump more water and because you have to pump to a high enough pressure to make the sprinklers work. Furrow irrigation uses more water than either of the previoius but energy consumption might be either hlgher or lower than sprinkler depending on the crop, the soil, and the weather(or so I've read). Furrow irrigation does not require pumping to a pressure but only pumping enough to get the water onto the surface. These types of pumps tend to be more efficient than the higher pressure ones used for sprinklers.......or so I've read but you should (obviously) check this out for yourself. I have found links on the internet that tell how to calculate the cost of pumping for various types of irrigation systems but I didn't keep them. I found them by googling for something like 'irrigation pumps efficiency'. I'll do some looking and let you know what I find....hoping you'll do the same. Also evidentally you can use furrow on cross slopes up to 3% and risk erosion problems if you have a furrow fail if the cross slopes are steeper and they don't work very well for sandy soils(all of this from the link above).

All of my fields are flat paddy land so I can flood if I want but for some crops flooding causes problems so I'm considering which of the other options I'll use. Since I have a garden as well as field crops I'm thinking I'll try a short run of drip to see how it works. I'm a 'tail ender' on our klong which means that I'm the last person to get the water..which means that I have to go up and remove stones and debris that other people put in the klong to increase their flow and consequently diminishes mine. For me this means that I should start investigating how much I can do with limited water supply. The trend world wide will probably be a tighter water supply as population grows and more people put more pressure on the existing (and limited) supplies.

Also building your soil with organic material will help your soil hold more water, let the water enter the soil faster for less runoff, and encourage deeper root development for your crops so they will be more drought resistent. These are some of the advantages of natural farming which are often overlooked when farmers calculate the benefits of natural fertilizers versus chemical.

Best of everything,

Doug

[dugdig]

Pseacraft,

A surveyor came today and I asked him about mai pradu which is the red hardwood I mentioned previously. He said they have alot of these trees in Isaan. It is also a legume (I checked this out again on the internet) so it should be perfect for you...soil building plus high quality beautiful hardwood eventually. Be sure to ask you forester friend about it. Also the surveyor said that they have another kind of wood (and the trees to grow it)called mai payung which is even nicer. I checked this one out and it is also called Thai rosewood and it is a legume too...hoooray hooray.

mai pradu = Burmese padauk = Pterocarpus macrocarpus

mai payung = Thai rosewood = Dalbergia cochinchinensis

BOTH LEGUMES, BOTH BEAUTIFUL, I'M GOING TO GET SOME!!!

Lots of info on internet...take a look!

Dugdig

[RamdomChances]

Thanks Sbk and dug for the ideas and info on sprinklers.

I haven’t done much research on it yet, so don’t really know what I’m going to go for i.e. sprinkler or ground "dripper" type thing. I've got a couple of months to sort it out anyway. I seem to remember someone telling me back home I think that if you watered plants in direct sunlight you could get "scorching", would the best times to use a sprinkler be early morning or evening? or doesn’t it matter I would of thought that in the day time with a sprinkler you would lose a lot through evaporation as well, as opposed to a "ground" based system. I don’t think that my pump (the one for actually pumping the water up not pressure) will keep up with demand as I will have to put a separate pump in for the sprinkler system but I've a 16000L header tank (takes about 4 hours to fill) so hopefully I should be ok.

The tank at the moment gives enough for about 3 days, the new milking parlour will have a pumped system, as its also having sprinklers put in to shower the cows, but the house and shop all work off gravity feed so if the tank is low we lose water pressure, we haven’t got any auto start stop for the pump just turn it on every morning to top the tank off (when water comes out the top you know its full )

At the moment its all go for opening the new milking parlour, managed to "recondition" and old vacuum pump yesterday so that saved me the best part of 30,000 bht not bad for a days work!! and out most days looking for new stock.

OK a new question for you all, I'm also looking to plant some trees, the ones you mentioned sound good dug and I will certainly look for some, but I want something that’s fast growing to provide shade for the cows, I’ve got some "dton macam ted (SP) in one of the paddocks, and have some ideas for the new ones, but cant remember the names at the moment any ideas anyone (not eucalyptus)

Cheers RC

[dugdig]

RC,

Congrats on the imminent opening of the milking parlor! Are you asking a local monk to pick a lucky day for moving the cows in? That's what people here do.

About watering in direct sunlight: Long ago when I had my first big garden and was just learning gardening my significant other, who had extensive gardening experience, warned me about sprinkling plants in direct sunlight. Since I had never noticed any problem with this previously in my limited experience I suggested an experiment. We carefully examined a tomato plant to be sure that its leaves were healthy and without flaws and then I sprinkled it completely. The next day the plant had perfectly healthy leaves without flaws....so I started sprinkling everything in direct sunlight to see if some plants had this problem and I/we never did find a plant that had a problem with this. She was really surprised and I learned the lesson that even really experienced gardeners held mistaken beliefs. Ever since then I look for multiple sources of information and ultimately rely on direct experience.

More about watering times: It is possible that water sitting on plants for too long can cause rot or fungus growth or encourage insects. Because of this many people try to water only in the morning so that the plants will dry off quickly. They say that watering in the evening will make the plants wet all night and may cause problems. They're probably right but I've never saw it in Washington State but in the tropics it might be different. I do know for sure that it doesn't matter for some plant here since I've experimented a little. I like to water in the evening so that I get less evaporation and the water soaks in better..I think. Watering at mid day will cool the soil and may be beneficial for some things although I'm not sure if we ever have "cool" soil!!! even right after watering at night!! Watering mid day does mean more evaporation.

macam ted = Madras thorn, Manilla tamarind = Pithecellobium dulce

Google for 'madras thorn' and you'll find lots. Should make good fodder. Is a legume. Wood is useable but not of high quality.

Teak is a fairly fast growing tree and would make good shade in about 5 years and make sellable timber in 10 to 15 years..but its not a legume and the large leaves blowing around might be a nuisance. Will papaya or tapioca make shade for cows?

Dugdig

[RamdomChances]

Cheers Dug

No not getting the monks out as its just an extenson, we did when we first opened though.

Thanks for the info on the trees, I did'nt know that macam ted was a legume, they just seem to grow on their own here, dont know if you can buy seeds. They are pretty good for the cows as they provide lots of shade and are really fast growing, it also helps that they have thorns as the cows dont eat them, well not too much!!

I'm going to put some teak in somewhere but they are a bit slow growing and dont really produce that much shade (unless you have a lot of them) the cows love the leaves though. I've thought about putting a few rai aside for teak, it would make a good pension plan

Pappaya I dont think would be strong enough as the cows tend to use the trees as scratching posts as well and Tapioca I dont know anything about, but I'll look into it.

A few people have mentiond different types but I cant remember the names and the wifes taken her mum and aunties down to Phuket on hols leaving me to look after the farm so no one to ask when she gets back I'll post them mabye you can help identifiing them in english for me.

Cheers RC

[dugdig]

Rice harvest is underway here in Chaingrai. Cutting started in our area about 3 days ago and of course it decided to rain...after about a month without. A bit of rain won't hurt but it does mean the rice must lie in the field longer before threshing so there will be a little loss but not significant. Harvest is early this year compared to last year. I asked why and the answer was that planting started early because the rain needed for planting started early this year. Hopefully we'll be done before Loy Krahtong but that depends if the weather lets the rice dry in time. Harvest here is done mostly by hand but it is more mechanized every year.

[pnustedt]

Harvest here is done mostly by hand but it is more mechanized every year.

I hope it is a good harvest - I heard a few weeks ago that it should be a bumper crop.

I was gonna buy a combine harvester this year but the plan fell by the wayside when I suggested to the family to produce a business plan! Do you know of anyone using a combine?

[RamdomChances]

I was gonna buy a combine harvester this year but the plan fell by the wayside when I suggested to the family to produce a business plan!  Do you know of anyone using a combine?

Hi punstedt

Down here they usually use combines. I dont know much about the cost/return on rice harvesters, but have been doing some resarch on Maize/Sorghum harvesters.

They are about 1 mill to buy and you have to import them (as far as I'm aware). There are about 3 in the area and are fully booked through the harvest period, working in shifts with a change of driver. They appear to be able to generate income of around 20,000 bht a day (less fuel, wages ect) I'd estimate fuel and wages of about 3,000 a day. With probably 3 months solid work a year (maize and sorghum) so if you look at a low end fig of 10,000/day profit you neeed about 100 days work to get your money back.

That sounds pretty good to me.

The problems I could see would be :-

Finding capable drivers, they also have a "crew" of 3-4 people helping with the collection.

Finding source to buy from (not in the case of rice harvesters, see links at end)

Mantanance and spares

Not having a million spare to buy one!!

You would need to look closley at the local market, are they used now? what size are the farms? what sort of land is it (hilly or flat). The central plain area is ideal for combine use as the farms tend to be bigger, the land flat and at least 2 crops a year.

The above figures are for the maize harvester, I'll ask around about rice, my wifes uncle grows it but I dont see him often

Here are some links to rice combine harvesters in thailand

http://www.kpn.co.th/

http://www.thaicombine.com/

I think they are the same company and there are no prices but I'm sure they would give you them if you sent a e-mail.

Cheers RC

PS hope you have a good harvest Dug

[pnustedt]

Hi RC

I was going to buy a Thai made machine - they are about Bt3 mill. plus a s/h flatbed to transport it around if travelling any distance. That's for the sack filling ones, the trailer fillers cost more.

I think it would be feasible but, for that investment, you would need to run it for 18 hrs a day during the harvest period (one harvest/yr in Sisaket) to get your money back in a reasonable time. I got the impression that this wasn't what the family had in mind.

You would normally get paid in rice.

Guess I'll review it when I get over there. Actually I tried several times to e-mail the co. on your URL - they never replied. The wife went with family to see another co. nr. Bkk (who haven't got a website) and she was going to buy from them.

Tks for your input. Guess I'll review things when I get over there full time.

[RamdomChances]

You would normally get paid in rice.

Thats a <deleted> lot of rice to pay back 3 mill bht

Oh I forgot to mention the 1 mill was for second hand not new, 3 mill does sound a bit pricy though

Cheers RC

[pnustedt]

[Thats a <deleted> lot of rice to pay back 3 mill bht

I guess that's why you don't see many about in Sisaket

[dugdig]

I was gonna buy a combine harvester this year but the plan fell by the wayside when I suggested to the family to produce a business plan!   Do you know of anyone using a combine?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've only seen them, never met anyone using one. The thing with them is that you harvest when the rice is still damp so you have to either have drying facilities or sell the crop before harves to someone who will dry it and resell it. I think if you wait until the rice is dry enough to store then the heads break easily and you get alot of droppage. When harvesting by hand you cut the rice stalks and leave them in the field until dry, then you thresh out the grain....the grailn is dry enough at threshilng to store but don't store it in an air tight container as it needs to dry a biat more but can do this when stored in the plastic fabric bags we use for stosrage. Using the combine adds several kinds of uncertainty to the process and I've noticed that for small acreage (raiage?) farmers its often more important to get a guaranteed crop than to get a big crop.

Have you seen the mechanical rice cutters? They cut and windrow the rice...sometimes called a sickle bar with side delivery. They're alot cheaper than a combine and your family might find this investment less intimidating. Using one would reduce the work dramatically but would not require a change in marketing or storage.

[dugdig]

OOPS! I only saw the first post about the combine! I didn't know you were thinking of a harvesting business. My reply was considering mostly for home usage....but even so the rice cutters might work out as a business...that's how it done here. It might be a more marketable idea than the combine since your customers won't have to change thier marketing/storage arrangements. In my neighborhood its all small farmers...10 rai or less...they store thier crop in a rice house and eat some and sell some when the price goes up. Is there much of this type of farming where youi're at...RC and Pnustedt?..or anyone else?

[RamdomChances]

In my neighborhood its all small farmers...10 rai or less...they store thier crop in a rice house and eat some and sell some when the price goes up. Is there much of this type of farming where youi're at...RC and Pnustedt?..or anyone else?

Hi Dug

Where I am there is not much rice farming, but generaly, Nakorn Sawan, Chinat, Supanburi and Singburi are pretty big rice producers, all on the central plain a fairly flat and feature less part of thailand, which lend its self to farming, mostly irrigated by the chao praya river.

The land features also lend itself to mechanised farming, which is why I suppose the are more combines down here. I think the farms tend to be larger on ave as well, i've got a link somewhere, but can't be ar55ed to find it

Most people I know off grow the rice comercially, but I'm no expert on it.

Cheers RC

[chevykanteve]

Hi Everyone,

I had no idea there were so many farangs interested in farming-related activities here in Isan. I came across this website just a few days back, and what a marvelous eye-opener!

I'm curious if anyone here has tried their hand at cashew-tree farming. Apparently, this was a government-promoted idea some years back, but failed miserably for reasons which NOBODY has been able to explain to me in clear terms. What exactly went wrong? Wrong varieties? Inability to market the product? I would really like to know. Cashews are easy to grow here (Roi Et area) and double as beautiful shade trees.

Any feedback on "cashew trees in Isan" would be most appreciated. Thanks.

[pnustedt]

Any feedback on "cashew trees in Isan" would be most appreciated.  Thanks.

They grow wild around our village (near Sisaket). If anyone wants cashews they just go out and pick them from the hedgerow, but a lot of Thais appear to have an allergy to them and won't touch them.

[dugdig]

I'm surprised tdo hear of cashews growing wild. Up here in Chiangrai they are fairly expensive. What's the deal? Why aren't the people in Sisakhet rich from selling cashews?

[RamdomChances]

They do grow wild around the place, I have'nt seen many though. The problem is you dont get many "nuts" from a tree.

The tree produces fruit, looks like an apple, but does'nt keep long, so has little comercial value, each "apple" has only 1 cashew nut, growing on the outside. Thats why they are so expensive.

If you can imagine you have to get mabye 100 kilo's of fruit for 1 kilo of nuts

[dugdig]

Well we've got the rice cut,tied, and piled up into 5 nice haystacks..each about 2 metres tall. We put a piece of plastic on top of each one and sure enough last night it rained. Amazingly good luck for us in that it rained just before we started cutting and then didn't until after the rice was safely stacked!!! We'll wait a few days until it has dried some more and then thresh it out when the good weather returns. My wife already has the money spent!!!!!

[et33.com]

mm... i always liked the idea of living in the countryside / perhaps one day i too will get myself a thai wife and move to thailand...

[bannork]

[

Same here,dugdig, rain in Udon. My brother-in-law has just bought a rot see khao รถสีข้าว, brandnew for 270,000 baht, would we call it a rice thresher in English? He worked until 1.00 am last night, out again at 6 today, a race against the rain with so many people's rice lying cut in the fields waiting to be threshed. He reckons he can get 2 months work in Udon province, then he's moving on to Kalasin and his home province, Buriram, which he says harvests later, in February. He reckons he's got 4 months work threshing a year, then he'll take off the thresher and put on a truck-style back and transport cattle, logs, etc for the remaining 8 months.

Good luck to him.

bannork.

[dugdig]

[

Same here,dugdig, rain in Udon. My brother-in-law has just bought a rot see khao รถสีข้าว, brandnew for 270,000 baht, would we call it a rice thresher in English? He worked until 1.00 am last night, out again at 6 today, a race against the rain with so many people's rice lying cut in the fields waiting to be threshed. He reckons he can get 2 months work in Udon province, then he's moving on to Kalasin and his home province, Buriram, which he says harvests later, in February. He reckons he's got 4 months work threshing a year, then he'll take off the thresher and put on a truck-style back and transport cattle, logs, etc for the remaining 8 months.

Good luck to him.

bannork.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good luck to him indeed!! I'm surprised that the rice harvest lasts for such a long time. Can you ask him or do you know if this is because of different rainfall patterns or different varieties of rice...or maybe different locations just have different planting traditions?

I'm wondering about รถสีข้าว (rot see khao). I think สีข้าว (see khao) means milling rice which means taking the grain and removing the outer coating to make it white. I'm wondering if รถตีข้าว(rot tee khao) is what he's got. I think that ตีข้าว(tee khao) means to thresh rice which means to remove the grain from the straw. I'm new at this so let me know if I'm wrong.

[bannork]

dugdig,

I appreciate your confusion,for we have a small rice mill naturally called โรงสี, so one would expect a threshing machine to be given a different title, such as รถตี or รถนวด,but in Issan they're called รถสี. I gather you're in the Chiang Rai area,I would expect the same Laos influence, but perhaps the threshers are called something different.

There are certainly no significantly different rainfall patterns in Issan, but I believe there is more jasmine planted in central and south Issan; this maybe related to variations in harvesting time. I'll let you know in a few weeks when things become clearer!

bannork.