meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Keep digging..........by the way, what has the amount of posts got to do with anything? I think "it implies" he's feeling smug, but I have no idea why. Still reeling over the loss of face. Get over it!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Keep digging..........by the way, what has the amount of posts got to do with anything? I think "it implies" he's feeling smug, but I have no idea why. Still reeling over the loss of face. Get over it!. ...................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... They most probably make those assertions from previous experience of living there.......... Edited July 16, 2015 by coulson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... They most probably make those assertions from previous experience of living there.......... They would have had to live there after 2012...that's when these so called "laws" were passed. Or are you saying it doesn't matter when they have lived there, as long as they have at some point in time, they have the unfettered wisdom to pass judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 My friend's gf just finished working in Dubai. She was treated like a civilized country would call slavery. $40 a week, 16-20 hours a day, 7 days a week and with that money she had to buy food once every two weeks if they let her or live on white bread. Last month she was deafly ill for a short while and they would not let her go to the hospital and insisted she cook for the family. Why western countries support countries like this who have no regard for anyone but themselves is beyond me. They even held her passport as security. If UAE is supposed to be one of the more liberal countries in that region, then good luck with the rest. I see the exact same happening here with cambodians, burmeese and laotian... When was the last time you saw one locked up for a very mild post online? Really? It was a comment to the previous quote from steve654... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... They most probably make those assertions from previous experience of living there.......... They would have had to live there after 2012...that's when these so called "laws" were passed. Or are you saying it doesn't matter when they have lived there, as long as they have at some point in time, they have the unfettered wisdom to pass judgement. Doesn't matter what the law is, or when/ where it was passed, it is everybody's own responsibility, for their own good, to familiarize themselves with the potential hazards associated with their normal behavior when outside of their normal environment. It's not rocket science, some people cannot keep their mouth closed, and are better suited to places where they can exercise their right o freedom of expression. Follow the modus operandi and anyone can fare pretty well. 2012 nothing changed for most people in the gulf, last time I looked, it is now as dangerous in Thailand to make offensive outbursts on social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) @linky: The point is that she is NOT well within her right to point it out on social media, that is illegal.No I wouldn't feel the urge to do what she did by posting it on facebook.The Australian Foreign Minister has said the woman was treated as per any normal deportation from there. The woman was treated the same as any other foreigner being deported. No I wouldn't feel the urge to do what she did by posting it on facebook. O! Thankfully most of us are:a) guided by a moral compassb!) not chicken. The point is that she is NOT well within her right to point it out on social media, that is illegal. You've got it all mixed-up. I don't think you've been paying any attention to what I have been saying. You cannot legislate against persons basic inclinations (i.e: to express themselves). To give an example, that's how come prohibition did not work in the U.S.People don't murder and rape because its against the law. Most people don't do it because its wrong.What is the Australian Foreign Minister meant to say?. Could she have said anything different to what she has said. what she said is so predictable.Instead of being led by the bare words of these politicians we ought to comprehend their intentions.If Julie Bishop said, the UAE did not follow the procedures, how would it affect them? (AUS). Would it spoil the international relations between the countries?, is there a risk?. If yes, she would just quote the diatribe that she did.What she said bears no relevance to this. If she intervened, when the Aussie woman was in Jail and did not succeed in getting a result, it would look bad on her (AUs Foreign Minister). She took the safe route. It may still cost her though. Edited July 16, 2015 by meltingpot2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Housemaids are not covered by the labour law in the GCC and it is outright wrong. The world doesn't seem to care. That is very bad. I admit 3rd world employees are also treated badly in this part of the world. I was actually treated well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... I do live there and I don't insult my hosts. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... I do live there and I don't insult my hosts. Next? No. No. You are chicken OR you are biased. Unless you are Perfect you would not see your own faults. Someone has to point them out. Edited July 16, 2015 by meltingpot2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... They most probably make those assertions from previous experience of living there.......... They would have had to live there after 2012...that's when these so called "laws" were passed. Or are you saying it doesn't matter when they have lived there, as long as they have at some point in time, they have the unfettered wisdom to pass judgement. Doesn't matter what the law is, or when/ where it was passed, it is everybody's own responsibility, for their own good, to familiarize themselves with the potential hazards associated with their normal behavior when outside of their normal environment. It's not rocket science, some people cannot keep their mouth closed, and are better suited to places where they can exercise their right o freedom of expression. Follow the modus operandi and anyone can fare pretty well. 2012 nothing changed for most people in the gulf, last time I looked, it is now as dangerous in Thailand to make offensive outbursts on social media. You haven't answered my question. It matters full well what the law is. Laws are not retrospective. Also, this thread is about UAE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so....I do live there and I don't insult my hosts.Next? No. No. You are chicken OR you are biased. Unless you are Perfect you would not see your own faults. Someone has to point them out. What are you gibbering on about? Are you drunk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so....I do live there and I don't insult my hosts.Next? No. No. You are chicken OR you are biased. Unless you are Perfect you would not see your own faults. Someone has to point them out. What are you gibbering on about? Are you drunk? You dont get it. I am talking about the aussie woman pointing out the faults of the UAE. GO get your cup of cocoa, it must be your bedtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so.... They most probably make those assertions from previous experience of living there.......... They would have had to live there after 2012...that's when these so called "laws" were passed. Or are you saying it doesn't matter when they have lived there, as long as they have at some point in time, they have the unfettered wisdom to pass judgement. Doesn't matter what the law is, or when/ where it was passed, it is everybody's own responsibility, for their own good, to familiarize themselves with the potential hazards associated with their normal behavior when outside of their normal environment. It's not rocket science, some people cannot keep their mouth closed, and are better suited to places where they can exercise their right o freedom of expression.Follow the modus operandi and anyone can fare pretty well. 2012 nothing changed for most people in the gulf, last time I looked, it is now as dangerous in Thailand to make offensive outbursts on social media. You haven't answered my question. It matters full well what the law is. Laws are not retrospective.Also, this thread is about UAE. UAE.Unbelievably amateurish empireUtterly abominable emiratesUgly, adolescent, empty hearted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 All these members saying "she probably did not belong there". They should put their money where their mouth is and go and live there themselves. Didn't think so....I do live there and I don't insult my hosts.Next? No. No. You are chicken OR you are biased.Unless you are Perfect you would not see your own faults. Someone has to point them out. What are you gibbering on about? Are you drunk? You dont get it. I am talking about the aussie woman pointing out the faults of the UAE.GO get your cup of cocoa, it must be your bedtime. Put more water in it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Ever heard the expression "Put a cork in it". (Especially if you don't understand something.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 They would have had to live there after 2012...that's when these so called "laws" were passed. Or are you saying it doesn't matter when they have lived there, as long as they have at some point in time, they have the unfettered wisdom to pass judgement. Doesn't matter what the law is, or when/ where it was passed, it is everybody's own responsibility, for their own good, to familiarize themselves with the potential hazards associated with their normal behavior when outside of their normal environment. It's not rocket science, some people cannot keep their mouth closed, and are better suited to places where they can exercise their right o freedom of expression. Follow the modus operandi and anyone can fare pretty well. 2012 nothing changed for most people in the gulf, last time I looked, it is now as dangerous in Thailand to make offensive outbursts on social media. You haven't answered my question. It matters full well what the law is. Laws are not retrospective. Also, this thread is about UAE. Ok, then, yes......people are entitled to offer advice and their opinion on this matter, even if they lived in the Gulf UAE before 2012. My point is they could quite easily go back now, what was enforced in 2012 does not change much for those who understand how to observe local etiquette. It is not that difficult to stay out of trouble in the Gulf UAE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 There is something very fishy about this story...I dont believe there is a "law" that has such draconian punishment attached to it. I think they (UAE) wanted to make an example of her. You can't have the whole world know the corruption that goes on within their country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 There is something very fishy about this story...I dont believe there is a "law" that has such draconian punishment attached to it. I think they (UAE) wanted to make an example of her. You can't have the whole world know the corruption that goes on within their country. I dont know what you are on but u better get off it. Julie Bishop does lose face, she wanted the aussie drg couriers shown mercy, even the PM got involved, all to no avail, the couriers were executed. So the govt does get involved when they think something is wrong. Julie Bishop was correct, the woman broke the law by posting on FB and was deported. What part of that dont you understand? If you think there is something fishy and that there cannot be a law against what she did then i suggest you provide facts to prove your assertion. In other words put up or shut up. Then you may want to email Julie Bishop and tell her she is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 There is something very fishy about this story...I dont believe there is a "law" that has such draconian punishment attached to it. I think they (UAE) wanted to make an example of her. What's missing from this story is the comment(s) that she made that were "insulting and degrading". I knew of couple of european hosties for a Middle East carrier whose answerphone message went something like: "Hi, this is xxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxx, if you're white, leave a message, if you're an Arab, F*** off!". As you can imagine, an Arab who dialled their number accidentally was a bit offended. He called the police. The police called the airline. The airline had them packed up and out of the Gulf within a few days, otherwise they would have gone to trial. I also know a woman who was drunk in a restaurant and started swearing at an Arab lady (Insulting a woman is even worse). She was fined $1250 then (and it was in the 90s) and deported days later. They are genial hosts, and very easy to live with, but if you choose to insult them in their own country, they don't piss about. A quality I wish the British shared.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 There is something very fishy about this story...I dont believe there is a "law" that has such draconian punishment attached to it. I think they (UAE) wanted to make an example of her. You can't have the whole world know the corruption that goes on within their country. You've gone from a loaded shotgun to sitting on the fence. Some further reading for you........might explain why some laws can be easily misunderstood or never understood at all. http://mattjduffy.com/2012/08/ive-been-kicked-out-of-the-united-arab-emirates/ http://www.arabmediasociety.com/?article=727 http://www.newsweek.com/under-surveillance-abu-dhabi-reporters-saga-being-followed-bribed-and-317627 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/nyregion/nyu-professor-is-barred-from-the-united-arab-emirates.html?_r=0 In places where such ambiguity in the law exist, it is prudent to err on the side of caution. I do not believe this lady with her FB ramblings was capable of exercising any such caution. You don't test the water in the Gulf region, where making examples is commonplace. (Before and after 2012) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meltingpot2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What we need to understand here is that, the punishment did not fit the "crime". In a previous occasion, Someone who uploaded a video online of a van driver been attacked, was charged, then the charges dropped after the incident drew international attention. See: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31692914 In the aussie woman's case the Australian Consulate was slow to act. Normally, in these matters, governments act fast, that's the norm. If this happened in Jakarta (Indonesia), the Australian Foreign Minister would have been on the phone to her counterpart in Jakarta in a flash. But that's Indonesia, their meek neighbour that they like to bully. When we are talking about the UAE, that's another story, plenty of contracts up for grabs (Keep them sweet, keep them keen). Also, the likelihood of getting the Aussie out before there is too much of a furore may have looked unlikely. (if the UAE was looking to make-up for the previous debacle) In the earlier story, the UAE government screwed-up (read the story here and see for yourself). Once their was too much outrage, they had to release the guy. Here, the Aussie government was slow to act, and its motives (modus operandi) are: 1) analyse the situtation - see what attention it receives in the media also monitor how the UAE act (or re-act). 2) let the story blow over. If the Australian foreign ministry acted faster, they (UAE) may have had to release the australian woman, without deportation. Again, causing embarrassment (to the UAE), just like with the previous case. Cant have that. its becoming too repetitious. Australian government did not do much, other than say "get a lawyer". Aussie Foreign minister is not aware what the aussie woman is charged with, other than it was contravening a "local law". Also, she seemed very defensive and abrupt in her manner (answers) in the interview. More than the outcome of this incident (deportation) what we need to grasp is the sheer mendacity and madness surrounding it. Consider the following: 1) Was the australian woman offered a legal counsel to obtain legal advice? 2) Was she offered a phone call upon arrest. 3) Was she told the charge for what she is been held in custody for? 4) were the charges read out in court. i.e What penal code offense did she break? . (the Aus Foreign Minister is also unaware of the charges) 5) Is holding someone for 53 hours, in those conditions (shackled at the ankles, strip searched, blood tested, forced to sleep on concrete floor) justified for the offense she had purportedly committed? 6) Who did the car parked across the disabled parking bays belong to ? 7) Was there charges bought against them?. With regards to (5), I think it was Nelson Mandela who once said "You can tell a lot about a Country by how they treat their prisoners". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Several middle eastern countries and their people, have some of the thinnest skin and apparently some of the lowest self-esteem, of anyone on the planet. The number of things that they forbid is a mile long. A society without joy is no society at all, in my book. You can't drive. You can't listen to music. Have fun? Forget about it. Criticize us? We can't handle it. We are not real men. We are half men. We cannot take anyone saying anything bad about us. And put in jail without the most basic of comforts? That is 13th century barbarism. Shame on these super freaks. And I am a tolerant man. But, some lines should not be crossed. They should know better. I would expect something like this from the Saudis. But the Emirates? The Emirates are different countries and have different standards. Dubai is liberal, and Abu Dhabi is obviously not. The problem is that there is no obvious border to let you know when to stop doing something OK a few feet away, but not OK where you are. As for the comments about how barbarous the prison is because there was no toilet paper, would anyone expect T P in a Thai or SEA jail? Edited July 17, 2015 by thaibeachlovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Several middle eastern countries and their people, have some of the thinnest skin and apparently some of the lowest self-esteem, of anyone on the planet. The number of things that they forbid is a mile long. A society without joy is no society at all, in my book. You can't drive. You can't listen to music. Have fun? Forget about it. Criticize us? We can't handle it. We are not real men. We are half men. We cannot take anyone saying anything bad about us. And put in jail without the most basic of comforts? That is 13th century barbarism. Shame on these super freaks. And I am a tolerant man. But, some lines should not be crossed. They should know better. I would expect something like this from the Saudis. But the Emirates? My friend's gf just finished working in Dubai. She was treated like a civilized country would call slavery. $40 a week, 16-20 hours a day, 7 days a week and with that money she had to buy food once every two weeks if they let her or live on white bread. Last month she was deafly ill for a short while and they would not let her go to the hospital and insisted she cook for the family. Why western countries support countries like this who have no regard for anyone but themselves is beyond me. They even held her passport as security. If UAE is supposed to be one of the more liberal countries in that region, then good luck with the rest. To be fair, working conditions for ( I assume you mean a maid job ) maids in Arab countries are well known, so it is surprising that so many q up to work in them. Also, maids are treated disgracefully in Malaysia and Singapore as well, not to mention Thailand. An ex G F of mine tried to leave the bar by getting a maid job, but was treated so badly by her Thai employer she went back to the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Several middle eastern countries and their people, have some of the thinnest skin and apparently some of the lowest self-esteem, of anyone on the planet. The number of things that they forbid is a mile long. A society without joy is no society at all, in my book. You can't drive. You can't listen to music. Have fun? Forget about it. Criticize us? We can't handle it. We are not real men. We are half men. We cannot take anyone saying anything bad about us. And put in jail without the most basic of comforts? That is 13th century barbarism. Shame on these super freaks. And I am a tolerant man. But, some lines should not be crossed. They should know better. I would expect something like this from the Saudis. But the Emirates?The Emirates are different countries and have different standards. Dubai is liberal, and Abu Dhabi is obviously not. The problem is that there is no obvious border to let you know when to stop doing something OK a few feet away, but not OK where you are.As for the comments about how barbarous the prison is because there was no toilet paper, would anyone expect T P in a Thai or SEA jail? I was referring to being shackled and chained and being deprived of a mattress or a mat, to sleep on. Even in Thailand they provide a mat. Sleeping on a bare concrete floor? This is for a suspect? Not like she was a serial killer, after all. Shame on those idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Several middle eastern countries and their people, have some of the thinnest skin and apparently some of the lowest self-esteem, of anyone on the planet. The number of things that they forbid is a mile long. A society without joy is no society at all, in my book. You can't drive. You can't listen to music. Have fun? Forget about it. Criticize us? We can't handle it. We are not real men. We are half men. We cannot take anyone saying anything bad about us. And put in jail without the most basic of comforts? That is 13th century barbarism. Shame on these super freaks. And I am a tolerant man. But, some lines should not be crossed. They should know better. I would expect something like this from the Saudis. But the Emirates?The Emirates are different countries and have different standards. Dubai is liberal, and Abu Dhabi is obviously not. The problem is that there is no obvious border to let you know when to stop doing something OK a few feet away, but not OK where you are.As for the comments about how barbarous the prison is because there was no toilet paper, would anyone expect T P in a Thai or SEA jail? No they're not, the UAE is a country. Abu Dhabi has had the Presidency since its inception. Each emirate is like a U.S. state and UAE law is a standard. Its implementation however..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Several middle eastern countries and their people, have some of the thinnest skin and apparently some of the lowest self-esteem, of anyone on the planet. The number of things that they forbid is a mile long. A society without joy is no society at all, in my book. You can't drive. You can't listen to music. Have fun? Forget about it. Criticize us? We can't handle it. We are not real men. We are half men. We cannot take anyone saying anything bad about us. And put in jail without the most basic of comforts? That is 13th century barbarism. Shame on these super freaks. And I am a tolerant man. But, some lines should not be crossed. They should know better. I would expect something like this from the Saudis. But the Emirates?The Emirates are different countries and have different standards. Dubai is liberal, and Abu Dhabi is obviously not. The problem is that there is no obvious border to let you know when to stop doing something OK a few feet away, but not OK where you are.As for the comments about how barbarous the prison is because there was no toilet paper, would anyone expect T P in a Thai or SEA jail? No they're not, the UAE is a country. Abu Dhabi has had the Presidency since its inception. Each emirate is like a U.S. state and UAE law is a standard. Its implementation however..... Hmmmmmm. In Dubai I can go to a disco and drink alcohol. In a different Emirate I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Yes, 'State' law. The Saudis paid Sharjah to go dry for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yes, 'State' law. The Saudis paid Sharjah to go dry for example. Why did the Saudis do that? Was it based on business investments elsewhere in UAE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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