Police Check for teaching if you have a caution...

[charlee27]

My younger cousin has recently come over here and has landed a good teaching job and soon be going for his Non-b, and we have just learnt of the new strict rules of getting the Non-B for teaching is Police Clearnece for sex offending (quite right too...!!!) however, he has a caution on his record from the UK from last year. It was a silly thing, nothing serious, got into a bit of a scuffle with some lads, but anyway got cautioned and as this was only last year, it'll still be on his record for the next 4 years.... Will this stop him from getting the clearance needed to get the Non-B. Or are they just checking for specific things? (such as sex offences/ being able to work with children) Also a friend told us he can get the check from Bangkok rather than contacting police at home. What does that mean? They'll just check if he has a record here in Thailand or they will contact the UK police for him and check? Please help as we can't find anything!!! Thanks in advance!!!!

[bwpage3]

A good teaching job? Seriously? Who in their right mind would come to Thailand for a job that doesn't pay enough that they would ever be able to buy a house or a car?

[charlee27]

Actually it's not a bad job considering he's not a qualified teacher with a teaching degree. But that wasn't what I was writing here for, I wrote here looking for some advice as we need guidance, which you haven't offered. Just pointless and snide comment being negative about the fact I said it was "good"

[lostinisaan]

A good teaching job? Seriously? Who in their right mind would come to Thailand for a job that doesn't pay enough that they would ever be able to buy a house or a car?

Not really the truth.Most foreigners can easily buy a car. Well, not everybody has a house back home, right?

[Satcommlee]

Are you sure a caution remains on record so long? It may be only 6 months, you may want to double check that..

After all it was only a caution! no big deal really!

[balo]

No big deal , he should be cleared I guess. I am more worried about the kids who will get an unqualified teacher.

[Satcommlee]

Every single one of us has at some time been in a position where we could have received a police caution.. It could be downloading copyrighted material off the net, it could be for smoking something we shouldn't have when we were young, it could even be for something as trivial as littering.. give the guy a break!

[Katipo]

A good teaching job? Seriously? Who in their right mind would come to Thailand for a job that doesn't pay enough that they would ever be able to buy a house or a car?

You must be new here. It is not entirely uncommon for teachers in international schools to earn 70-120k per month, with the top ones paying up to around 200k. Then there is the housing allowance, flight back home once a year, and the 8-10 week holidays.

[lostinisaan]

Can't you get the information from your country?

[aarontendo]

A good teaching job? Seriously? Who in their right mind would come to Thailand for a job that doesn't pay enough that they would ever be able to buy a house or a car?

You must be new here. It is not entirely uncommon for teachers in international schools to earn 70-120k per month, with the top ones paying up to around 200k. Then there is the housing allowance, flight back home once a year, and the 8-10 week holidays.

Context matters genius. The thread is about an EFL position. Next time you counter-troll do it better yeah?

You must be new here.

[Katipo]

A good teaching job? Seriously? Who in their right mind would come to Thailand for a job that doesn't pay enough that they would ever be able to buy a house or a car?

You must be new here. It is not entirely uncommon for teachers in international schools to earn 70-120k per month, with the top ones paying up to around 200k. Then there is the housing allowance, flight back home once a year, and the 8-10 week holidays.

Context matters genius. The thread is about an EFL position. Next time you counter-troll do it better yeah?

You must be new here.

EFl is not mentioned in the thread. The fellow I quoted doesn't mention it either..... only 'teaching'. I am not trolling, just a little tired of people running down teaching jobs, and in this case, by doing so he went completely off topic.

[krabi local]

Charlee27

I think you will find that a caution actually stays on your record until you are 100 years old.

But

It will only be disclosed on a police clearance check depending on how serious the offence was for either 5 or 10 years.

A caution for "a bit of a scuffle with some lads" could be anything from common assault to GBH with intent.

[aarontendo]

A good teaching job? Seriously? Who in their right mind would come to Thailand for a job that doesn't pay enough that they would ever be able to buy a house or a car?

You must be new here. It is not entirely uncommon for teachers in international schools to earn 70-120k per month, with the top ones paying up to around 200k. Then there is the housing allowance, flight back home once a year, and the 8-10 week holidays.

Context matters genius. The thread is about an EFL position. Next time you counter-troll do it better yeah?

You must be new here.

EFl is not mentioned in the thread. The fellow I quoted doesn't mention it either..... only 'teaching'. I am not trolling, just a little tired of people running down teaching jobs, and in this case, by doing so he went completely off topic.

Fair enough, OP did say that the job is good considering applicant isn't a qualified teacher. So, that would generally discount those international schools you mention, right? I'd assume it's EFL, or perhaps an EP program subject teaching (at best). Either way, those jobs are in the 30k to meh, 50k range. No benefits either.

Agreed though, the good internationals are well worth it, albeit much more work than the typical EFL teacher is expected to put in at their 30k jobs.

[Liquorice]

@charlee27

A caution is not a criminal conviction and is not recorded as such.

It can only be used against him if he were to appear in Court again over another conviction as evidence of his character.

His offence was a civil misdemeanour, which he admitted and therefore only received a caution as to future behaviour. It will have no bearing whatsoever on a criminal records check or registration on the sex offenders list, which is all they are concerned with.

[krabi local]

Faz

Sorry but you are mistaken, possibly true in your country of origin.

In the UK it is not a civil misdemeanour a Police caution is for a criminal offence.

It WILL be shown on a criminal records check in the UK.

[MrBrad]

No big deal , he should be cleared I guess. I am more worried about the kids who will get an unqualified teacher.

Me too. It's deplorable what passes as a "qualified" English teacher in this country, especially outside Bangkok. I've met many Thai teachers who cannot carry on a simple conversation in English, and supposedly they majored in English at a teacher's college or university. Many times majoring in English is not even a requirement.

Almost any foreigner who is a native English speaker--or even those who aren't, but still have studied English abroad--could serve as a better instructor of English than most "qualified" Thai teachers.

That said, I do appreciate the fact that many or very likely most of the foreign English language teachers here have adequate and recognized credentials and skills for language learning. Obtaining a teacher's certificate is a step beyond receiving a Bachelor's or even a Master's Degree. Without a doubt there are countless competent individuals here in Thailand who have studied extensively some area of linguistics, language history, communications, journalism, literature, or the like, and yet are not certified as teachers.

[bigt3116]

Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, his caution will show on a normal disclosure for 5 years after it was issued, on an enhanced check (which he does not need here), it will show forever.

If he has lived in Thailand for over 6 months, he can get the check done via the DSI here in Bkk, and they only check for offences committed in Thailand.

[Liquorice]

Faz

Sorry but you are mistaken, possibly true in your country of origin.

In the UK it is not a civil misdemeanour a Police caution is for a criminal offence.

It WILL be shown on a criminal records check in the UK.

I am from the UK.

I repeat a 'caution' is not a 'criminal conviction'.

The police or Crown Prosecution Service can give you a caution (warning) or a penalty notice if you commit a minor crime.

Cautions

Cautions are given to anyone aged 10 or over for minor crimes - eg writing graffiti on a bus shelter.

You have to admit an offence and agree to be cautioned. You can be arrested and charged if you don’t agree.

A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.

https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty

If it is shown on a DBS check, it will clearly be shown as a 'caution'.

The offence will not be listed under the Criminal Conviction section.

A caution is immediately 'spent', unless it is a conditional caution, in which case it is spent after 3 months.

Only a Court can apply a 'conviction'

In my employment I was subject to a full DBS (previously CRB) check every 3 years.

I received a formal Police Caution for a so called offence, but it was never listed on my CRB checks.

Certain 'cautions' are filtered from CRB checks if they are considered irrelevant for the job.

Read here for further info: https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q89.htm

[krabi local]

Faz,

I worked for a company that actually processed CRB checks ( now DBS).

Firstly there is no such thing as a 'civil misdemeanour' in UK law, which is why I thought you were not from the UK.

Secondly there is not a separate section for cautions on a DBS check is is just one section covering "summary of convictions and reprimands / warnings / cautions / impending prosecutions"

But you are correct it will be annotated as a caution.

You are also correct that a caution is not a criminal conviction however it is issued by the Police for a criminal offence.

For a job working with children (or vulnerable adults) either paid or unpaid a caution will be shown on a DBS check.

[puchooay]

Faz,

I worked for a company that actually processed CRB checks ( now DBS).

Firstly there is no such thing as a 'civil misdemeanour' in UK law, which is why I thought you were not from the UK.

Secondly there is not a separate section for cautions on a DBS check is is just one section covering "summary of convictions and reprimands / warnings / cautions / impending prosecutions"

But you are correct it will be annotated as a caution.

You are also correct that a caution is not a criminal conviction however it is issued by the Police for a criminal offence.

For a job working with children (or vulnerable adults) either paid or unpaid a caution will be shown on a DBS check.

I received a caution a few years back. I have since had a police clearance notice from the police in UK. Clear, nothing , zilch.

[GanDoonToonPet]

Apply for the new International Child Protection Certificate (ICPC) which, according to the partnership agreement between the British Embassy & Thai Immigration, has to be done.

What will appear on my certificate?

Details of any convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings held on UK Police Databases, regardless of the age of the offence, or whether it is deemed to be spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.

https://www.acro.police.uk/ICPC_FAQs.aspx#What_will_appear_on_my_certificate?

[Liquorice]

Faz,

I worked for a company that actually processed CRB checks ( now DBS).

Firstly there is no such thing as a 'civil misdemeanour' in UK law, which is why I thought you were not from the UK.

Secondly there is not a separate section for cautions on a DBS check is is just one section covering "summary of convictions and reprimands / warnings / cautions / impending prosecutions"

But you are correct it will be annotated as a caution.

You are also correct that a caution is not a criminal conviction however it is issued by the Police for a criminal offence.

For a job working with children (or vulnerable adults) either paid or unpaid a caution will be shown on a DBS check.

I received a caution a few years back. I have since had a police clearance notice from the police in UK. Clear, nothing , zilch.

Same here and I had a full CRB checks due to working with the elderly, vulnerable and children.

The caution I received was for a' civil misdemeanour' (as per the written Police caution), nothing to do with a criminal act.

[phetpeter]

The only time there is a Police record is if you spend time in prison, and the length of time you have the public record is the length of time you serve. That also includes suspended sentences and other court ordered service work. Drink driving offences are also recorded. Minor offences, warnings and fines are included.

The only problem they might have in Thailand, is the failure to provide some form of education requirement's under the new guidelines to get a work permit. If the school has a good relationship with their local work permit office, and if they issue the WP then the immigration may issue a visa to work. (. Do it the other way round you may hit a brick wall!

[krabi local]

Same here and I had a full CRB checks due to working with the elderly, vulnerable and children.

The caution I received was for a' civil misdemeanour' (as per the written Police caution), nothing to do with a criminal act.[/quote

You have been watching too much US TV

There is still no such thing as a 'civil misdemeanour' in UK law.

In the words of Michael Mansfied QC if there is no photo, it did not happen

Edited July 23, 2015 by krabi local

[krabi local]

The only time there is a Police record is if you spend time in prison, and the length of time you have the public record is the length of time you serve. That also includes suspended sentences and other court ordered service work. Drink driving offences are also recorded. Minor offences, warnings and fines are included.

!

You really have no idea about UK law.

[Liquorice]

Same here and I had a full CRB checks due to working with the elderly, vulnerable and children.

The caution I received was for a' civil misdemeanour' (as per the written Police caution), nothing to do with a criminal act.[/quote

You have been watching too much US TV

There is still no such thing as a 'civil misdemeanour' in UK law.

In the words of Michael Mansfied QC if there is no photo, it did not happen

My offence was not a Criminal act, but a Civil offence.

As the Police written warning was for an instance of misbehaviour, it stated I was being warned for a Civil misdemeanour.

I do have my last Enhanced Enclosure if you want to see it.

Under the section of Police Records of Convictions, Cautions, Reprimands and Warnings, it clearly states 'None Recorded'.

[rocketboybkk]

Actually it's not a bad job considering he's not a qualified teacher with a teaching degree. But that wasn't what I was writing here for, I wrote here looking for some advice as we need guidance, which you haven't offered. Just pointless and snide comment being negative about the fact I said it was "good"

Has he got a work permit to start with?

He's not a teacher & I hope he doesn't fall into the category of spending most of his young years partying & earning rubbish money while not building up any NI contributions, savings, assets etc. in the UK.

It'll be too late when he's mid 30's & wakes up with a hangover & thinks he'll pop back to UK to start again.

Tell him to think hard. Plenty are in that situation.

I went to Thai in 2001 & stayed 18 mths. I was 29 & had a flat & £100k in the bank from selling a business. Wasn't a millionaire but could survive.

I came back to UK just in time I think, still had money in bank & flat and was 30yo. Now I'm 44 odd & ok. Got pension going, pay NI with no huge gaps.

Yes, it's an adventure but teaching as you call it isn't the way to make a life unless you're fully qualified earning decent money.

Just my opinion

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[rocketboybkk]

No big deal , he should be cleared I guess. I am more worried about the kids who will get an unqualified teacher.

Agree

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[rocketboybkk]

A good teaching job? Seriously? Who in their right mind would come to Thailand for a job that doesn't pay enough that they would ever be able to buy a house or a car?

You must be new here. It is not entirely uncommon for teachers in international schools to earn 70-120k per month, with the top ones paying up to around 200k. Then there is the housing allowance, flight back home once a year, and the 8-10 week holidays.

Name the schools that pay 200k baht per month?

I think if your the head of a very good international school maybe but not a standard year teacher. More like 60k a month maybe little more.

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[rocketboybkk]

Charlee27

I think you will find that a caution actually stays on your record until you are 100 years old.

But

It will only be disclosed on a police clearance check depending on how serious the offence was for either 5 or 10 years.

A caution for "a bit of a scuffle with some lads" could be anything from common assault to GBH with intent.

It should be 'spent' after 10 years in UK

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